Message of Peace- By Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah/Krishna-Second Coming

[paarsurrey]

Hi

 

I now find the button for the new thread, thank GodAllahYHWH.

This post is the next passage from "The Message of Peace" already introduced here by our friend/brother Suchandra published under:

paarsurey-original-vedas-were-not-man-s-fabrication:

 

 

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

The Quran is full of injunctions from cover to cover speaking only of the worship of one God. Nowhere does it require man to worship the sun, the moon etc. In fact there are clear statements to the contrary:

In other words, do not worship the sun, the moon, or any work of creation, but worship only Him, Who has created you. Apart from this, the Holy Qur’an is itself a testimony to God through its old and new signs. It is a mirror which shows God’s existence. Why should it be made the target of such ferocious attacks? Why are we not treated in the same spirit as we treat the Aryas? And why is the seed of enmity and hatred sown in the soil of this country? Do they really expect that the outcome of such behaviour will be good? Is it decent to hurl stones at one who offers flowers or to splash urine on one who offers milk?

If Hindus and those belonging to the Arya faith were prepared to make a complete truce whereby they accept our Prophet, (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to be a true Prophet of God and in future agree to refrain from contempt and slander, then I am ready to be the first to sign the following treaty:

We, the members of the Ahmadiyyah Jama‘at, will testify to the truth of the origin of the Vedas, and will speak of the Vedas and their Rishis with respect and love, and if we do not honour our part of the contract, we will be liable to pay a fine of not less than three hundred thousand rupees to the Hindu community.

 

 

Paarsurrey says:

 

 

I am not a scholar; I am just an ordinary man in the street. I am entitled as a human being not to compromise in the matters of truth and its search. I am on truth yet I have kept the windows and doors of my mind and heart open for truth; I cannot afford to shut them as that would be baing inhuman and insincere to myself. I have read most of the writings of the Promised Messiah/Krishna in Second Coming and I am totally convinced by him; yet that does not hinder me from accepting truth wherefrom it comes to me. Kindly present your rational and peaceful comments based on your revealed book as to the claim and reason, so that truth prevails and wins.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

[theist]

In the west there are so many second comings of Jesus Christ. In the east there so many new Krishna's appearing.

 

We must ask ourselves how come so many? Can they all be real? How can I be sure?

 

We can all be sure that the real Lord of all lives in the heart of all. So the safest thing is to make our own hearts the primary altar and if the Lord appears also in this world it must be confirmed to us from within.

 

This is a very different thing then just feeling very strongly that this or that person is genuine. It refers to direct communication from the Lord

 

Pray to the Lord within yourself to guide you correctly.

[Bishadi]

neat thread......

 

 

"how can i be sure?" .... that is the question most all of mankind will be asking themselves.

 

yet if each can agree on the fundamentals, like compassion and compassion over the self with compassion, then it seems a building can be grounded with both feet on the ground.

 

items such as accepting reality could be the first starting point

 

ie... every word in use was created by mankind

 

as well the ultimate goal of seeking; absolute truth

 

but to accept a burqa or chanting a specific phrase are not going to do well within the combined arena

 

so perhaps to focus on life;

 

what is life? How does it work? What does it do? How does 'good and bad' define equally?

 

or maybe there are other ideas of relevance to discuss (such as on a forum; hint hint) to begin a dialogue.

 

now imagine if the leaders of each sect could return to the humility of becoming a representing party of the 'portion' of knowledge they are familiar with and allow the collective from each branch combine to enable HIM to unfold his final message from assembled collective (four corners of the earth).... then it seems world Peace can live

 

and the children will one day know Heaven on Earth (just a term) sharing the 'krishna conscious' combined compassion of each who are aware....

 

if this can be..... i will wash the feet and serve with 100% commitment and nothing of self; in fact remove my name so not even a person can remember;

 

i submit

[bija]

 

But again, we must welcome all ways that lead to the divine path of truth. by sri

In my opinion even the said man SP would agree with you here Sri. That is an opinion many of the vedic transcendentalists over time have shared and seem to press forward- a gradual upliftment of human awareness. One of the gems from your motherland no doubt. I wonder when that kind thought entered the vedic thought pattern. Surely it wasnt the 19th century;) .

 

By the way I read one of Parasurrey's Prophets books called 'What we believe'. To be honest it was a good read, and a worthy contribution to spiritual culture from what I gather.

 

The only fruit from the Ahmadi tradition that concerns me is this: general muslim world considers them (Ahmadi) apostate...and from what I have read Amadis consider the general muslims apostate if they do not accept the promised messiah. So, once again the dream of unity is further complexified. I wonder why? Maybe it will always be this way in this world, with the real hidden treasure always concealed from the one's who do not seek?

 

Anyway Parasurrey, I have enjoyed the last few days studying your faith tradition. Thanks to you and Suchandra. I read the Quran occasionally and find such mystic gems in it supporting my own faith. But at the same time convicting me of things in my faith that do not fit Abrahamic culture. So what to do? The internal worship of Lord Gauranga cannot be given up for me...so when I read the Quran I see its mystic unity. Something your messiah spoke fondly of...

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey says:

 

12- The next passage from- Message of Peace- by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah/Krishna in Second Coming, is given for perusal and comments of the respected members of the forum.

 

Krishna-in his Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

If the Hindus genuinely desire to effect a compromise with us (Ahmadi Muslims), then they should also write it as a declaration and sign it; its subject matter being as follows: We believe in the divine message and Prophethood of Hadrat Muhammad Mustafa Rasulullah [the chosen one, the Messenger of Allah] may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and deem him to be a true Prophet and Messenger. From now on we will remember him with reverence and respect as befits a believer. If this is not adhered to, a large fine of not less than three hundred thousand rupees will be paid to leader of the Ahmadiyyah Jama‘at.

 

It should be remembered that at present, the Ahmadiyyah Jama‘at numbers not less than four hundred thousand (This number represents the membership as of writing of the book “Message of Peace” in 1908). Hence, the collection of three hundred thousand rupees should not be considered too great a task for such an important cause. The majority of people who are outside the fold of our Jama‘at are disunited in their views and are diverse in their nature. They do not follow a leader, obedience to whom they would consider incumbent.

This is why I cannot undertake anything on their behalf; as yet they consider me to be a kafir [imposter] and dajjal [Antichrist]. But I trust that when the Hindus enter into an agreement with me, they (the other Muslims) will also not be so daring as to abuse the Book and the Rishis of such a civilized people and thereby invite the abuse of the Holy Prophet (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in retaliation. Such abuses will then be rightly blamed on those who act irresponsibly.

 

Thanks

[paarsurrey]

 

In the west there are so many second comings of Jesus Christ. In the east there so many new Krishna's appearing.

 

We must ask ourselves how come so many? Can they all be real? How can I be sure?

 

Hi

 

 

1. If there are many Jesuses in the West and many Krishnas in the East; at least that tells that there is a genuine spiritual need of a Jesus in Second Coming in the West and a Krishna in Second Coming in the East.Maybe the person is the same but he has two titles.
   
2. If there are many fake spare parts of a motorcar in the market; one who struggles would recognize the genuine also; should not be that much of a problem in my opinion.
   
3. The physical and scientific laws were the same when Jesus and Krishna lived; the earth orbited around the sun the same ways as it does today. The moral and spiritual laws also must be the same without doubt; as also the principles of truth and falsehood , so must be the criteria to know truthful person from the false person.
   
4. One should concentrate; if one would have been born in the time of Jesus or Krishna, as to how he had behaved with them, one would have accepted him or rejected him. In all ages man has been equi-distant from truth and falsehood. If one would have accepted Krishna if one were in his times; then one should recognize from the same principles Krishna in his Second Coming.

I think that clears the situation.

 

Thanks

[brahma kumar]

Om shanti,

Parsurrey,

And why is the seed of enmity and hatred sown in the soil of this country? Do they really expect that the outcome of such behaviour will be good? Is it decent to hurl stones at one who offers flowers or to splash urine on one who offers milk?

 

Actually it is the seeds of enmity,hatred sown in our thoughts.

An eye for an eye makes both of them blind .

We are heading for the great climax it's called MAHABHARATH.

[theist]

 

Hi

 

1. If there are many Jesuses in the West and many Krishnas in the East; at least that tells that there is a genuine spiritual need of a Jesus in Second Coming in the West and a Krishna in Second Coming in the East.Maybe the person is the same but he has two titles.

I accept the teachings of Bhaktivedanta Swami That Krishna is a name for the Supreme Almighty Person and that Jesus is His empowered Son or servant. This is also clearly the teaching of Jesus also.

2.If there are many fake spare parts of a motorcar in the market; one who struggles would recognize the genuine also; should not be that much of a problem in my opinion.

Well everybody struggles but few recognize the genuine person that is evident in the fact that so many false incarnations are accepted as real.
We only recognize God or His messenger by the Grace of God Himself and no other way. That is why I suggested we must pray to the Lord within to show us His presence without.

3.The physical and scientific laws were the same when Jesus and Krishna lived; the earth orbited around the sun the same ways as it does today. The moral and spiritual laws also must be the same without doubt; as also the principles of truth and falsehood , so must be the criteria to know truthful person from the false person.

A friend of mine once told me that I wanted to know the truth then I should stop lying. That was good advice as a needed begiinning point. But even after stopping lying we are still in nedd of the Lord to reveal Himself to us personally. There is no other way besides grace.

4.One should concentrate; if one would have been born in the time of Jesus or Krishna, as to how he had behaved with them, one would have accepted him or rejected him. In all ages man has been equi-distant from truth and falsehood. If one would have accepted Krishna if one were in his times; then one should recognize from the same principles Krishna in his Second Coming.

Not exactly. Again I must remind that we are in a blind condition. If Krishna or Jesus lived next door to us without God's grace we would not be able to recognize either for who they really are and would just ake them as some extraordinary beings or something.

[

I think that clears the situation.

 

Thanks

 

The situation is only cleared by grace.

[bija]

 

If the Hindus genuinely desire to effect a compromise with us (Ahmadi Muslims), then they should also write it as a declaration and sign it; its subject matter being as follows: We believe in the divine message and Prophethood of Hadrat Muhammad Mustafa Rasulullah [the chosen one, the Messenger of Allah] may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and deem him to be a true Prophet and Messenger. by Parasurrey

 

Several in the disciplic succession I follow have accepted Mohammed as an empowered incarnation of God. This is called shaktyavesa avatara. A jiva soul empowered by God's shakti for a specific purpose.

 

I have heard this even from the lips of my spiritual master. Therefore I adore Mohammad as relevant in my spiritual life on a similar level to other representatives of God, and therefore the Quran is acceptable to include in my daily reading.

 

How one interprets Quran is ofcourse a different matter. Lord Gauranga (who is non-different to Sri Krsna) also studied the Quran and explained its meanings similar to Mohammad, in that there is one God. And he cleared doubts of some by claiming that God has a transcendental form - the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna and Allah being the same one God.

 

What impresses me about the Quran, dear Parasurrey, is that it has potential to unify all Abrahamic sects (and personally I think the jews and christians would have been better off to at least accept the Quran as bonafide and not false), as its theme is evidently universal. And like all revealed scripture it speaks to the heart of man, with much hidden treasure, also confirming its unifying principle. With potential for a wider universal spiritual upliftment - if taught correctly.

 

As your promised messiah has said, that teachers of religion that force their God on others is false religion. He has also said that the Islamic idea, that Jesus is coming back to assist in the beheading of unbelievers if they do not convert, is also a bogus idea. He has indirectly condemned the modern Islamic jihad of some modern muslims - therefore I accept your messiah as having a very relevant message for todays Islamic world - and also for other faiths that practice fanaticism and intolerance.

 

As a devotee of Lord GaurangaKrsna it would be my duty to encourage you to deepen your faith in Allah. And gradually love him deeper and deeper as your life progresses. (Out of kindness I desire the same for myself). If prophet Mohammed and the promised messiah aid in bringing about that love in your heart - then that is proof enough for me of their validity as true messengers.

 

As a follower of Sri Gauranga I cannot stress enough, the beauty, of accepting a God that has transcendental form. So conducive for love and devotion.

 

All blessings to you my friend. If I fail in my pledge will 20 cents be ok instead of so many rupee

[bija]

 

If Hindus and those belonging to the Arya faith were prepared to make a complete truce whereby they accept our Prophet, (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to be a true Prophet of God and in future agree to refrain from contempt and slander, then I am ready to be the first to sign the following treaty:

 

Also worth noting for readers of this forum. Parasurrey's promised messiah speaks about the Hindu Arya - the Arya Samaj.

 

Here is info about them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_samaj

 

The Brahmo Samaj is even referred to by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura of the Sri Gauranga faith (in several writings) - of the same era (thereabouts) as the founder of Ahmadiyya Islam (promised messiah).

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey submits:

13- The next passage from- Message of Peace- by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah/Krishna in Second Coming; he noted the situation prevailing in the Indian sub-continent in 1908 under the British rule. Paarsurrey’s intention is that we should reach at an understanding on the religious issues.

Krishna in Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

I do not expect that after this treaty they (i.e. the other Muslims) would permit their tongues to wag. It should be mandatory that to make the contract binding, ten thousand adult representatives from both parties should sign it.

My dear ones, there is nothing like peace and compromise. Let us unite with the blessing of this treaty and be one nation. You know full well that denial (i.e. denial of each other’s holy personages.) on both sides has thrown us apart and that our country is suffering greatly. Visualise how blessed it could prove to testify to each other’s truth. Come, give this a try now.

This is the best course for achieving peace.

Pursuing any other course would be like ignoring a dangerous abscess merely because it looks clear and shiny, while, in reality, it contains rotten and putrid matter. I need not elaborate on the ever-increasing, mutually hypocritical, attitude and discord between the Hindus and Muslims.

This is rooted not in religious differences alone, but has also secondary causes which pertain to worldly ambitions. For instance, the Hindus have always shown their desire to have more say in the affairs of government and country. They have been demanding that they should, at the very least, always be consulted in such affairs and that the government should always pay special attention to their demands.

They also desire that they be posted at the higher ranking offices as the British are. The Muslims made the blunder of not joining this campaign of Hindus out of fear that they were small in numbers. They were afraid that whatever benefit was to be

had from such campaigns would be drawn by the majority Hindu community and not the Muslims.

So they not only abstained from joining this cause, but they also obstructed the passage of Hindu efforts by openly opposing it. Thus mutual enmity increased. I admit that such factors contributed to furthering the enmity which had already existed. But I cannot accept them to be the real reason. I beg to differ with those who believe that religious disputes are not at the root of Hindu-Muslim enmity and discord, and that the disputes are in fact political in nature.

Everyone can easily understand why Muslims are reluctant to join forces with Hindus in demanding their due rights and why they have been refusing to join Congress and why again, having perceived the soundness of the Hindu strategy, they began to follow the same path step after step while maintaining a distinct and separate entity, taking great care not to be identified with them. They did not join the Hindus, but created a similar but separate Muslim organisation. (The organisation was called Muslim League and was established

in 1906)

Dear Friends! I reassert that the underlying factor responsible for this behaviour is religion, and nothing else. If today the same Hindus embrace the Muslims while pronouncing the kalimah Tayyibah (i.e.There is none worthy of worship except Allah; Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.) then Muslims would cease to oppose them forthwith.

Conversely, if Muslims renounce Islam and embrace Hinduism and start worshipping fire, air, etc., in accordance with the Vedic injunctions, then those differences which are labelled as political will suddenly vanish as if they had never existed.

It is thus evident that the underlying factors in all enmities and grudges are the religious differences. It is such religious differences which, since times immemorial, reach a climax and then invariably give way to extensive bloodshed.

 

Thanks

[paarsurrey]

Sorry: double post.

[bija]

 

It is thus evident that the underlying factors in all enmities and grudges are the religious differences. It is such religious differences which, since times immemorial, reach a climax and then invariably give way to extensive bloodshed. quoted by paarsurrey

 

...The different forms of these spiritual activities create divisions of sectarianism. Differences that arise from places, times, languages, behaviors, foods, dresses, and natures of various communities are incorporated within people's spiritual practices and gradually make one community so completely different from another community that even the consideration that everyone is a human being may cease to exist. Due to these differences there is disagreement, cessation of social intercourse, and fighting, even up to the point of killing one another. When an ass-like mentality becomes prominent within the kanishta-adhikaris, they certainly indulge in these things. But if they develop a swanlike mentality, then they do not take part in quarrels; rather, they endeavor to attain a higher level.... by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura from Sri Krishna-samhita, 1880

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey says:

 

Man is born in this world with the will and mercy of the Creator of Heavens and Earth. It is not an individual’s discretion where to be born and when to be born. One is born anywhere on the time axis or the space axis; and is responsible for search for Truth.

 

It is better for him to place himself at different points on both the axis and observe his status in relation to Truth; this might help one remove one’s illusions and thus mend his ways, then one can steer his ways on to the true path again and set himself on a new point of understanding, maybe elevated than before.

 

The Second Coming 1835-1908 (of Krishna/Christ) makes such an understanding very easy wherever we are on the globe. He is blessed with calling himself a Muslim- a submitter to truth in peace; and this is what one should be in real terms. A Christian or a Jew or a Hindu or a Muslim, etc, should be a submitter to truth in peace.

 

I am a very ordinary follower of him. The Question is why?

Because he has been guided by GodAllahYHWH and my following him does not hinder my path of following Krishna, Moses, Zorotushtara, Abrahm, Jesus, Socrates,Cyrus, Muhammad and other truthful persons born anywheres and anytimes in the globe; with whom God spoke one to one or face to face. This natural wisdom, or Revelation or Word of God from God’s mouth; endowed on him from One on High open new vistas of understanding.

 

I have no problem in accepting Krishan/Krishna a DivineGuide.

My question to my Hindu friends/brothers in humanity is: if you were in Krishna’s time; would you have accepted him or rejected him? If you would have accepted him (I pray you would have); under what criteria/principles? If you would have not accepted him; under what criteria/principles?

 

I must say you must find the truthful criteria; as that would prove, in my opinion, that you don’t have a blind faith or an illusion; but a research based faith or a faith with eyes.

 

If Jesus falls within your criteria; would you accept him a DivineGuide?

 

Thanks

[bija]

 

paarsurrey says:

 

Man is born in this world with the will and mercy of the Creator of Heavens and Earth. It is not an individual’s discretion where to be born and when to be born. One is born anywhere on the time axis or the space axis; and is responsible for search for Truth.

 

It is better for him to place himself at different points on both the axis and observe his status in relation to Truth; this might help one remove one’s illusions and thus mend his ways, then one can steer his ways on to the true path again and set himself on a new point of understanding, maybe elevated than before.

Very nice post! Your association is desirable...peaceful Ahmadi muslim!

 

 

mend his ways

Very peaceful wisdom shared, to free the sincere of offences. Thx Prabhu.

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey submits:

14- The next from- Message of Peace- by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah/Krishna in Second Coming.

Krishna in Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

If today the same Hindus embrace the Muslims while pronouncing the kalimah Tayyibah: (i.e There is none worthy of worship except Allah; Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. ) then Muslims would cease to oppose them forthwith. Conversely, if Muslims renounce Islam and embrace Hinduism and start worshipping fire, air, etc., in accordance with the Vedic injunctions (The reference is to today’s distorted Vedic injunctions that have been modified over time by the followers.), then those differences which are labelled as political will suddenly vanish as if they had never existed.

It is thus evident that the underlying factors in all enmities and grudges are the religious differences. It is such religious differences which, since times immemorial, reach a climax and then invariably give way to extensive bloodshed. O Muslims, I say: If Hindus treat you as a different nation merely because of religious differences and you respond to them in the same manner, the matter will not end here. How can you achieve a sound, healthy relationship unless you take appropriate remedial measures against this root cause? It is possible that you may temporarily enjoy a friendship, but only superficially.

The ultimate sincerity of heart, worthy of being called sincerity, can only be achieved if you genuinely change your attitude towards the Vedas and the Vedic Rishis by accepting them to be from God. Likewise, the Hindus should also change their niggardly attitude by testifying to the truth of our beloved Holy Prophet (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Remember, and remember it well, that this is the only principle which can establish a genuine truce

between you and the Hindus and this is the only water which can wash away all malice embittering your relationship.

If the hour has finally come when these two nations, who have for so long fallen apart, are destined to be reunited, then God will open up their hearts to this purpose as He has already opened up our hearts to the same. It is essential however that you treat Hindus with sincerity and kindness and let decent behaviour be your second nature.

 

Thanks

[Gaea]

 

Paarsurrey submits:

14- The next from- Message of Peace- by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah/Krishna in Second Coming.

Krishna in Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

If today the same Hindus embrace the Muslims while pronouncing the kalimah Tayyibah: (i.e There is none worthy of worship except Allah; Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. ) then Muslims would cease to oppose them forthwith. Conversely, if Muslims renounce Islam and embrace Hinduism and start worshipping fire, air, etc., in accordance with the Vedic injunctions (The reference is to today’s distorted Vedic injunctions that have been modified over time by the followers.), then those differences which are labelled as political will suddenly vanish as if they had never existed.

It is thus evident that the underlying factors in all enmities and grudges are the religious differences. It is such religious differences which, since times immemorial, reach a climax and then invariably give way to extensive bloodshed. O Muslims, I say: If Hindus treat you as a different nation merely because of religious differences and you respond to them in the same manner, the matter will not end here. How can you achieve a sound, healthy relationship unless you take appropriate remedial measures against this root cause? It is possible that you may temporarily enjoy a friendship, but only superficially.

The ultimate sincerity of heart, worthy of being called sincerity, can only be achieved if you genuinely change your attitude towards the Vedas and the Vedic Rishis by accepting them to be from God. Likewise, the Hindus should also change their niggardly attitude by testifying to the truth of our beloved Holy Prophet (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Remember, and remember it well, that this is the only principle which can establish a genuine truce

between you and the Hindus and this is the only water which can wash away all malice embittering your relationship.

If the hour has finally come when these two nations, who have for so long fallen apart, are destined to be reunited, then God will open up their hearts to this purpose as He has already opened up our hearts to the same. It is essential however that you treat Hindus with sincerity and kindness and let decent behaviour be your second nature.

 

Thanks

 

well said.

[ARJ]

 

It is thus evident that the underlying factors in all enmities and grudges are the religious differences.

The real problem is when people don't mind their own businesses & start poking their noses in others affairs, telling them what's written in their "books" & what they should believe, as if they themselves are not capable of interpreting what's written in their books. Yes now the Hindus need omniscient souls like you & Zakir Naik & all the hipsters of Audarya to make them understand what's written in Vedas.

 

 

It is such religious differences which, since times immemorial, reach a climax and then invariably give way to extensive bloodshed.

There are enough security forces to take good care of the miscreants, so don't you worry about any bloodshed.