Don't vote

[theist]

 

 

Don't Vote!

BY: GURU-KRSNA DAS

 

Oct 29, USA (SUN) —

I am surprised that Dandavats has posted "

To Vote or Not to Vote

" by Dharini devi dasi (ACBSP) on the scrolling "Announcements and Ads," for many less mature or simple devotees will misconstrue that Dandavats (and hence ISKCON) thus endorses the current Democratic, rather than the Republican, candidate for the U.S. presidency.

 

If Dandavats does in fact endorse the Democratic candidate, then would it not be more proper to publish an official pronouncement to that effect -- with sound reasoning supported by sastra-guru-sadhu as to why Vaisnavas should indeed vote for the Democratic candidate?

 

But if Dandavats actually does not support either candidate, then we humbly submit that it is only fitting -- fair and proper -- to also post this announcement.

 

Madhavananda Prabhu has already provided sufficient words of ISKCON's Founder-Acarya on the subject of voting. For example: "Because of the importance of the Krishna consciousness movement, people should be Krishna conscious and should not vote for anyone who is not Krishna conscious."

 

Since neither the Democratic nor the Republican candidate for the U.S. Presidency is ascertained to be Krishna conscious, we therefore humbly appeal to all readers of Dandavats to simply follow Srila Prabhupada's advice and "not vote for anyone who is not Krishna conscious." If it is not factually known whether either the Democratic or the Republican candidate is Krishna conscious, then the only responsible conclusion (that which is faithful to the instructions of our Founder-Acarya) is therefore obviously: Don't Vote!

 

Thank you very much.

 

humbly aspiring to become a genuine Prabhupdadanuga,

this most unworthy servant called

 

Guru-Krsna das

 

 

[theist]

I have often wondered to what extent a voter shares in the karma created by the one he voted for. Or is it he has no karmic responsibility as a voter? I tend to think he does but don't really know.

 

Supposedly a king took on 1/6th of the karma of his subjects good or bad. In a democracy it may become more complicated but surely there must be some entanglement.

 

Anybody know?

[AncientMariner]

I am voting for the Kalki avatar.

[bhaktajan]

Theist's Question, "Is there karmic responsibility as a voter?"

 

Shades of the Answer may lie in the reverse situation:

 

I have often wondered to what extent a voter shares in the karma created by the Election he neglected to cast his voted in.

Or is it he has no karmic response as a voter who neglects to cast his vote?

 

I tend to think he does but don't really know.

 

In a material world based on 'dog-eat-dog' ethos of sense gratification it may become more complicated but surely there must be some entanglement.

 

Anybody know?

 

So many Irish boys had never voted for Abraham Lincoln nor the Confederate South [inre: to the American Civil War 1861-65]-- they were just following orders.

 

Usually it was that only the landed gentry were allowed to vote --nowadays it's every body except those with more important things to watch on the telly.

[Sarva gattah]

 

I have often wondered to what extent a voter shares in the karma created by the one he voted for. Or is it he has no karmic responsibility as a voter? I tend to think he does but don't really know.

 

Supposedly a king took on 1/6th of the karma of his subjects good or bad. In a democracy it may become more complicated but surely there must be some entanglement.

 

Anybody know?

 

Every action has its reaction. Unlike America, everyone in Australia has to vote and if they don't, there is a big fine and even jail. The funny thing is, in the 44 years of voting age, I have NEVER voted.

 

Although as a person, Obama's minders have expertly markeded him and he WILL be the next President and first black President. Wow, I remember the Birmingham civil rights marches and 1963 speach of Martin Lurther King, followed by an unknown 19 year old boy singing 'Blown in the Wind' (Bob Dylan)

 

I believe it's a good thing Obama will be elected President because it breaks down barriers of race and even Religion. In fact I believe the civil rights movement of the the 60s greatly indirectly helped Prabhupada's movement

 

Sterotype parrot devotees that exist in Australia would not understand that but plenty of American devotees will

[theist]

 

Theist's Question, "Is there karmic responsibility as a voter?"

 

Shades of the Answer may lie in the reverse situation:

 

I have often wondered to what extent a voter shares in the karma created by the Election he neglected to cast his voted in.

Or is it he has no karmic response as a voter who neglects to cast his vote?

 

I tend to think he does but don't really know.

 

In a material world based on 'dog-eat-dog' ethos of sense gratification it may become more complicated but surely there must be some entanglement.

 

Anybody know?

 

 

Actually voting only for a Krishna conscious leader as Prabhupada stated is the position of non-karmic action. There is no karma for neglecting to show support for a cheater in the guise of a leader.

[theist]

 

Every action has its reaction. Unlike America, everyone in Australia has to vote and if they don't, there is a big fine and even jail. The funny thing is, in the 44 years of voting age, I have NEVER voted.

 

Although as a person, Obama's minders have expertly markeded him and he WILL be the next President and first black President. Wow, I remember the Birmingham civil rights marches and 1963 speach of Martin Lurther King, followed by an unknown 19 year old boy singing 'Blown in the Wind' (Bob Dylan)

 

I believe it's a good thing Obama will be elected President because it breaks down barriers of race and even Religion. In fact I believe the civil rights movement of the the 60s greatly indirectly helped Prabhupada's movement

 

Sterotype parrot devotees that exist in Australia would not understand that but plenty of American devotees will

 

In America we have the option of writing in a canidate. Every election Mickey Mouse gets many votes. So one could write in Maharaja Prithu or Pariksit if they wanted to. Probably better ways to spend one's time though.

 

Do they allow write in's in Oz?

[mahak]

The criteria is very minimal in this age, thanks largely to the Storehouse of love, Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Once, I asked Srila Prabhupada (prior to being his disciple, ca 1971 laguna beach) if touching his books was a spiritual act of bhakti yoga. His reply was yes. So, I think of those who have received books from devotees, like Jimmy Carter, and I ask, is he krsna conscious, having performed, just once, an act of non-offensive bhakti yoga?

 

Stretching this a bit to the present. one candidate has a good luck charm of the full representation of stalwart devotional service in friendship, Sri Hanuman. He carries it with him at all times. It is not a muslim symbol, it is not a symbol of the Weathermen, nor is it a symbol of One World Government, Socialism, Communism, Black Power. It is a representation of one who is not only a dear friend and selfless servant of Lord Rama, but a very intimate friend of the Supreme Goddess, Srimati Sitadevi.

 

Is he a devotee? Well, he eats meat, maybe drinks a bit (but I doubt if he is accustomed to intoxication like our lame duck dude), I believe there is no indication of gambling, nor illicit sex in his realm. Does he chant? Define. Is not the Lord's Prayer chanting because it does hold the name of God very dear. What is the other criteria? Vaisnava characteristics of cleanliness, mercy, austerity and truthfulness.

 

While I appreciate ISKCONs responsibility of neutrality on this issue, as I appreciate my peers' positions on the matter, when one asks about karma in the vote, yes, we get the karma of the rule of whom we elect. A king takes the karma of his subjects, but in a democracy, the electorate is responsible.

 

So, if we elect the republican ticket, we get what thats all about, an artificial and perverted armageddonism and rapture philosophy created by demons who use Jesus as a bloody rag to pretend to wipe their sins on (while he says, "get away from me, you workers of iniquity"). Or we elect Obama and find out if he is what he has said he is or find out how bad he lied to us, or we dont vote, and have the karma of not rendering to the state that which belongs to the state. A non-vote does not relieve us of the karma we are forced to live under. The Jews did not elect Hitler, yet they suffered greatly because others took advantage of their silence. Gypsies never vote, but they live in squalor and die gruesome death because they dont use facility that may well be there.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not fanatic. I vote Obama because he moves me, not because I rthink he has the sloutions to the problems we face. But my vote for him equals two votes against my great enemies, the corporate fiends who want to commit genocide against all but 500,000,000 people, meaning they will not stop until 7/8 of the world population is dead, the ultimate final solution. Its not senile McCain, whom I like and think is a respectable gentleman, but those who are enamored by the venomous traitor female dog who the rapture freaks are touting and even have plans, if elected, to elevate to #1 even quicker than that other short lived president who reigned for just a month or so (Who was He, not george, but another harrison).

 

Its the scariest day of the year, not Oct 31, but Nov 4.

 

Reagan-Modnale, there is a valid reason not to vote. Humphrey-Nixon too. Clinton Dole was a real yawner. I voted for Gore and Kerry because I really have no use for dry-drunks and cokeheads. But I vote for Obama for the same reason I voted for Carter, the closest thing american politics have come to providing a vaisnava friendly person. Devotee? I cant tell, only devotees can see other devotees, Kanisthas cant tell devotees from demons.

 

haribol, ys, mahak

 

(PS Thanx, Bija, will read carefully, am excited by what I rapidly read in my short time at the library today.)

[Samia]

 

maybe drinks a bit (but I doubt if he is accustomed to intoxication like our lame duck dude),)

Glad to see you know so little about who you are voting for his admitted drug use is a fact.

So IF the deceiver gets elected and things continue to crumble under one party rule, you know little things like free speech, who then will you blame ? I really feel bad for folks like you, the real blame for the condition we are in is lack of personal accountability. Can`t get by, oh heck blame the man, it must be someone elses fault.

 

 

What is the other criteria? Vaisnava characteristics of cleanliness, mercy, austerity and truthfulness.

Yea I guess he is clean, Ask his Aunt living in poverty in Boston about his mercy the clearest test of a man is how he treats his family. Truthfulness well considering he will not even allow his birth certificate to be released and try getting any records of his past. He also has a habit of being caught in lies then cutting loose those involved in them as Reverend Wright LOL.

 

 

I voted for Gore and Kerry because I really have no use for dry-drunks and cokeheads.

Ooops better rethink your vote then, your shining being Obama was quite the candy man

[AncientMariner]

I herby petition the Lord to be released from any karma as a result of voting on the basis of the percieved lesser of two evils. Having come to the conclusion that the left/right paradigm is a divide and conquer construct of the corporate globalist social darwinists I will vote for 3rd party candidates or not vote at all.

 

I petition the Lord to release karmic accountability of a citizenry from a government that pretty much at every turn does exactly the opposite of what the citizenry wants. Don't know if my petition will fall on deaf ears but personally I don't feel any karmic accountability to this criminal government and when I have voted for any of these idiots it has been because I viewed them as lesser of two evils. We live in a civilization where you cannot revolt against your government without being painted as a crazy lunatic so basically in my opinion it is the duty of God to clean this mess up because the citizens have their hands tied at every turn even when they speak out against evil and the evil acts of the government. The responsibility to clean this corruption up is completely in the hands of the Lord as far as I am concerned at this point.

 

 

My vote is for the Kalki avatar.

[AncientMariner]

 

Glad to see you know so little about who you are voting for his admitted drug use is a fact.

So IF the deceiver gets elected and things continue to crumble under one party rule, you know little things like free speech, who then will you blame ? I really feel bad for folks like you, the real blame for the condition we are in is lack of personal accountability. Can`t get by, oh heck blame the man, it must be someone elses fault.

 

 

Yea I guess he is clean, Ask his Aunt living in poverty in Boston about his mercy the clearest test of a man is how he treats his family. Truthfulness well considering he will not even allow his birth certificate to be released and try getting any records of his past. He also has a habit of being caught in lies then cutting loose those involved in them as Reverend Wright LOL.

 

 

Ooops better rethink your vote then, your shining being Obama was quite the candy man

 

 

 

The most puzzling thing about the Obama personality cultists to me is that they view him as a grassroots politician agent of change and he voted for the Wall Street bailout banker takeover bill. Apparently they were not paying attention when he did that.

 

All the stuff you mention is quite alarming as well. Even though Obama does hang out with some off the wall personalities I would have had more respect for him if he would have just owned up to his friendship with them but to see him throw them under the bus like he did is another indicator that he is just another corporate controlled NWO globalist social darwinist posing as a grassroots politician of the people, agent of change. Hopefully I am wrong about him and the fact that he carries a Krishna trinket in his pocket is an indication that he really is here to serve the people and not to serve his corporate slave masters.

 

All in my opinion only and the opinions expressed above are merely for cheap entertainment purposes only and in no way should be construed as expert political analysis.

[theist]

Obama voted for extra tax benefits for oil companies and McCain voted against them. Besides who wants to support a baby killer/abortion rights supporter?

 

I find much peace of mind in Prabhupada's words above.

 

The political season does present many openings for injecting Krishna conscious idea's into the public conversation. And what makes a true leader is one of those ideas.

[Sarva gattah]

 

In America we have the option of writing in a canidate. Every election Mickey Mouse gets many votes. So one could write in Maharaja Prithu or Pariksit if they wanted to. Probably better ways to spend one's time though.

 

Do they allow write in's in Oz?

 

The Prime Minister of Australia is the head of government of the Commonwealth of Australia, holding office on commission from the Governor-General. The office of Prime Minister is, in practice, the most powerful political office in Australia.

 

Despite being at the apex of executive government in the country, the Prime Minister is not mentioned in the Constitution of Australia and exists through an unwritten constitutional convention.

 

Any fool can run for Prime Minister but needs to win a seat in the House of representatives first.Only once has a Prime Minister came from the Senate

.

Barring exceptional circumstances, the Prime Minister is always the leader of the political party however independants can still try but are never taken seriously by the public unless they are a member of the two major parties, the Labour Party or Liberal Party

 

I compare the Labour with your Democrates

 

And the Liberals with your Republicans

 

So if you go by the Aussie trend, where the Labour Part won in a Landslide, your Republican candidate will loose the Presidental election also in a land slide to the Obama camp

 

Did you know in 1959 Australia was jokingly refered to as the 51st State of your Union because everything here in mostly owned by U.S. Interest. even the military base IN Central Australia has over 500 Nuclear Weopns stored there .

 

When I first went to the States, no offense, but Australia to me seemed a richer verion of the American dream.

 

If you went to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane or the Gold Coast, it's no different than the States except there is little poverty.

 

You have to go to out back Aboriginal communities to see that disgrace

 

ANYWAY PRABHU. LETS NOT FORGET KRSNA BY TALING TOO MUCH OF THIS NONSENSE. VOTE FOR CAITANYA.

 

One further point, if you go to vote here and write Krishna over the voying card as a protest against compusory voting, then that is automatically a vote for the sitting Government. All invalid votes are treated this way making all votes count regardles. In other words, a non vote is a vote for the sitting Government.

[suchandra]

 

 

Any fool can run for Prime Minister but needs to win a seat in the House of representatives first.

 

I would vote for Sarva gattah as Prime Minister in Australia!

 

No more fools who officiate as leaders but are in fact sudras.

[Yajnavalkya dasa]

Krishna says (Bhagavad-gita 18:66), "surrender unto Me and I will protect you from all sinful reaction. Do not doubt this". So why are you worried about "bad karma"? Do you doubt Krishna?

 

Even if you are obsessed with "bad" or "good" karma, the very act of refusing to vote has karmic implications. Arjuna wanted to withdraw from the battle and go to the forest. Remember? Krishna says, "do your duty".

 

"No good man is entirely good. No bad man is entirely bad", says Krishna in the Mahabharata. So no candidate will be perfect. You have to choose the better (or the less worse) of the two.

 

Krishna also says in the Bhagavad-gita (chapter 12, verses 8 through 12), "if you can't do this, then do this... and if you can't do that, then try this". Some things are better than others, and we all have choices. We have to do the right thing. At every single moment of our lives we have only two choices: "does this action support dharma, or does it detract from it?" Sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich is nonsense: pretending non-action is the same as good action is nonsense! This is covered in the first few chapters of the Gita.

 

There are no commandments in the Bhagavad-gita. There is no "thou shalt" or "thou must not" sayings. Krishna shows us different paths, and how to attain them. The bottom line is chapter 18, verse 63, "yatha icchasi tatha kuru": "do what you wish to do". The choice is ours.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Krishna says (Bhagavad-gita 18:66), "surrender unto Me and I will protect you from all sinful reaction. Do not doubt this". So why are you worried about "bad karma"? Do you doubt Krishna?

 

Even if you are obsessed with "bad" or "good" karma, the very act of refusing to vote has karmic implications. Arjuna wanted to withdraw from the battle and go to the forest. Remember? Krishna says, "do your duty".

 

"No good man is entirely good. No bad man is entirely bad", says Krishna in the Mahabharata. So no candidate will be perfect. You have to choose the better (or the less worse) of the two.

 

Krishna also says in the Bhagavad-gita (chapter 12, verses 8 through 12), "if you can't do this, then do this... and if you can't do that, then try this". Some things are better than others, and we all have choices. We have to do the right thing. At every single moment of our lives we have only two choices: "does this action support dharma, or does it detract from it?" Sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich is nonsense: pretending non-action is the same as good action is nonsense! This is covered in the first few chapters of the Gita.

 

There are no commandments in the Bhagavad-gita. There is no "thou shalt" or "thou must not" sayings. Krishna shows us different paths, and how to attain them. The bottom line is chapter 18, verse 63, "yatha icchasi tatha kuru": "do what you wish to do". The choice is ours.

 

Excellent understanding. Also I agree with you that Obama is good for the world, I am reminded of the 1960 elections that was the beginning of major changes within America and the world, from the Civil rights movement to Ken Kesey, Tim Leary, Bob Dyln, Greatful Dead, Alan Ginsburg, Beatles, etc and of course Srila Prabhupada

 

The headlines today in all Australian Papers covering front and back pages is 'The beginning of a new dawn' Baraka Obama.

 

This is BIG and is going to go down in History as one of the great moments in time of American and World History

 

Unfortunately, so many devotees are so closed off from this world, they cannot see your mature understaning above.

[theist]

Prabhupada said not to vote for any leader who is not Krishna conscious. I must reject the reasonings of Mahaksa and Yajnavalkya das.

 

That said I will register to vote in upcoming elections. There were several propositions on this years California ballots. One was for enhanced protection for animals raised for slaughter. That passed but I would like to have added my vote.

 

Another was a proposition to change the California constitution to prevent homosexual so-called marriage. That passed also.

 

But no more lesser of two evils.

[suchandra]

 

Excellent understanding. Also I agree with you that Obama is good for the world, I am reminded of the 1960 elections...

As soon a president of the United States doesnt do what the tycoons are telling him he will be assassinated. At least this should be clear.

 

I wrote at another post, concerning Barack Obama's birth chart:

 

 

He has Aquarius Ascendant and Sun in 6, Saturn, ruler of his chart in 12, Mercury in Lion. In other words, Obama is not a doer, man of action, but a subordinate, someone who receives orders and enforces these orders to the people, Mercury in Lion.

Could be you find him always carrying with him four or more mobile phones.

 

Since he has Neptune in 9, Saturn and Jupiter in 12, he is very receptive for spiritual knowledge, the devotees should preach to him like anything.

Especially about the law of karma.

[jschwartz]

 

Prabhupada said not to vote for any leader who is not Krishna conscious. I must reject the reasonings of Mahaksa and Yajnavalkya das.

 

 

Everyone is Krishna conscious, just to different degrees: "Everyone, as they surrender to Me, I reward accordingly." Bhagavad-gita 4:11.

 

So stop trying to rationalize (rationalize = "rational lies") your reasons to evade your duty.

[theist]

 

Everyone is Krishna conscious, just to different degrees: "Everyone, as they surrender to Me, I reward accordingly." Bhagavad-gita 4:11.

 

So stop trying to rationalize (rationalize = "rational lies") your reasons to evade your duty.

 

OH...OK.

:D:D