Is the whole concept of 'offending people' blown way out of proportion in ISKCON?

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

The following is an interesting debate. Actually, I admire the writtings

of both Kesava Krsna Prabhu and Rocana Prabhu.

 

 

 

Avoiding False Humility

 

BY: ROCANA DASA

 

 

Oct 3, CANADA (SUN) —

I have recently been engaged in a discussion with

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

. The dialogue began with my reply to his "Them ‘N All" article on Dandavats.

 

 

I offered my comments in an

Obeisances to Dandavats

editorial, and received his prompt reply. There following several rounds of exchange (see links at bottom of this article).

 

 

A few days ago I received the following note of apology from

Kesava

Krsna

prabhu:

 

• Dear Rocana prabhu,
  
  
  
  Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
  
  
  
  I have directed my responses to you personally and have clearly displeased you by doing so. Whether in mind or heart, please forgive me if I have offended you. I hope you will look kindly upon me. I am very sorry.
  
  
  Your servant,
  
  
  Kesava
  Krsna
  dasa

 

It's comes as a bit of a surprise to me that

Kesava

Krsna

is so fixated on this whole idea of offending… me offending him, me offending some leader in ISKCON, him offending me, etc., etc.

 

 

Frankly, I think the whole concept of 'offending people' is blown way out of proportion in the ISKCON community

.

First of all, we're not great, exalted Vaisnavas.

 

 

The person we should seriously worry about offending is Srila Prabhupada. Beyond that, this offense business is used more as a ploy to keep people in line in the institution than anything else.

 

 

It's obvious that

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

has been well indoctrinated into this practice. Calling each other Vaisnavas, advanced devotees and senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada is all very nice.

 

 

But when it comes to the point where we can't address something we think is not in line with the Sampradaya Acarya's instructions without being accused of being critical, then it's ridiculous. We're simply muzzled as a result, not protected from "Vaisnava aparadha".

 

 

The gist of my entire theme of Srila Prabhupada as Sampradaya Acarya is not simply about putting Srila Prabhupada in his rightful place, but also putting us in our rightful place, which is infinitesimally small in comparison.

 

 

As such, we can't get hung up with all this etiquette business to the detriment of our own spiritual life and preaching

Krsna

Consciousness.

 

 

We can't interpret the dictums of etiquette in such a way that we become discouraged from correcting the problems that keep our spiritual life and the preaching from unfolding in a way that would please the Sampradaya Acaryas.

 

 

I'm sure that

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

and I would get along royally if we were just good friends or neighbors, or lived in the same community, but we don't. Instead, he has essentially taken the position of being a spokesman for ISKCON.

 

 

I am responding to his writings, and that is the nature of our relationship. Many of us in the wider community don't often get the opportunity to discuss issues with those who run the institution, so we have to make do with what is given -- in this case,

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

.

 

 

But that doesn't stop me from mentioning my Godbrothers, who are still strongly holding onto the reins of power in ISKCON, and who should be held accountable for many of the unfortunate things that have been and still are going on.

 

 

I recently enjoyed talking at length with a sincere brahmacari. He told me about the advice he had received from an American guru/sannyasis who travels to various temples in ISKCON.

 

 

This ISKCON leader advised him not to preach in North America because it was hopeless. He told this devotee to go to Eastern Europe, India or South America, because people are more receptive there. So no wonder the preaching in North America has taken an obvious downturn, so much so that they've had to form the quasi-corporate SSPT committee in order to attempt to remediate or reverse this trend.

 

 

One of the main problems in North America has been the 'brain drain', wherein advanced preachers and sincere disciples are getting initiated by gurus who spend most of their time outside of America, and entice their American disciples to follow them as they preach to the "more receptive" people.

 

 

Many of those gurus and sannyasis who remain in America appear to be in some sort of retired hibernation. We seldom hear anything about their activities.

Kesava

Krsna

dasa's guru happens to be among this group.

 

 

When

Kesava

Krsna

speaks out he represents both himself and his guru, and one has to assume that he's representing the guru as much as he's representing Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON.

 

 

So in that respect, I feel it's within my right and duty to point out actions of his guru that appear to be contradictory from what Srila Prabhupada expected of him.

 

 

This is one of the many points that I've brought up in my articles which Kesava Krsna has chosen to avoid under the guise of all this false humility.

 

 

It's just a smokescreen. In reality, he's been defeated and won't admit it. In a morning walk conversation I was recently listening to, Srila Prabhupada was challenging the devotees to come up with an answer to his philosophical assertions.

 

 

They couldn't, and Srila Prabhupada said if you can't give a rebuttal, that automatically means you've been defeated. If you want to follow Vaisnava etiquette, then you should at least admit it when you've been defeated. This is the honorable thing to do.

 

 

So

Kesava

Krsna

prabhu, if I'm wrong and you haven't been defeated, than let's step away from all the aparadha allegations and apologies, and get down to addressing the philosophical points I raised in my original article.

 

 

After all the time we've spent going back and forth about criticism, etiquette and aparadha, we could have discussed the real issues threadbare by now.

 

 

Your apology is accepted, and I hope you'll also forgive me for having offended you or your spiritual master in any way. Now kindly address the philosophical issues I've laid out, or give me your hand in defeat.

 

 

 

<CENTER>

Links to the Discussion Thread

 

(Most recent at bottom)

 

“Them ‘N All”

 

Obeisances to Dandavats

 

Them ‘N All Reply

 

More on Them ‘N All

 

Beware! The fault-finders

 

Free Speech In Krishna Consciousness

 

Clarification

 

Response to

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

 

Who are the leaders in Iskcon?

 

Why Can't We Be One Happy Family?

When Srila Prabhupada is Happy, the Family is Happy

 

</CENTER>

[AncientMariner]

I haven't ever had any personal involvement in Iskcon. I have studied Krishna Consciousness on my own for like 15 years and have found many valuable things in the philosophy but that is the thing I have always found a bit odd about Iskcon devotees is how much people claim aparadha and offenses and things like that. That whole aspect of things starts to get kind of strange to me as an observer looking from the outside.

 

I can understand speaking out if you see something that you deem to be offensive but the accusations of aparadha start flying so much that it is hard to tell who is doing what. I like the attitude of Jesus in this regard when he said things like forgive them father for they know not what they do.

[theist]

I like Rocana's down to earth straight forward approach.

 

I apologize in advance if my comment offends any Vaisnavas. Please be merciful and forgive me for I am low born & uneducated, not knowing what to do or what is to be done. Please accept me as your servant groveling at your divine feet.

 

Just joking around friends.

[weallshineon]

Yeah, I like his writings too,

[bhaktajan]

Memebers of Iskcon should fearlessly criticise the karmi leaders, movers & shakers immediately without let down.

 

ISKCON should assume the position of the worlds' William F. Buckley or Robert Frost or Lewis Carrol or Upton Sinclair or Ralph Nader etc, to be considered the most insightfull and acid wits and the greatest social satirists of all time--rather than their members and associate congregants remain mute and hoard the stockpile of Krishna-Prema & Krishna-Karma, and keep it within their own sanctorum!

 

Memebers of Iskcon, as we all are, have watched indifferently throughout the course of our collectively recent world history --that mocks are earnest efforts to inform karmis of how to avoid ugra-karma.

 

"While good men stayed silent" --all atrocious & heinous adharma prospers among "LOSERS ON A WORLD-WIDE SCALE"-- propaganda abounds while mudhas practice their craft of spinning chaos at a more affordable price day-after-day.

 

 

The karmis are usurping all Yoga terminology and thus I will presume to say that they know what we know but cannot articulate it because they have not witnessed a bold devotee personally speak-up.

 

Yall think we've yet been In-Their-Faces? Ya'll ain't seen nothin yet.

[theist]

 

Memebers of Iskcon should fearlessly criticise the karmi leaders, movers & shakers immediately without let down.

 

ISKCON should assume the position of the worlds' William F. Buckley or Robert Frost or Lewis Carrol or Upton Sinclair or Ralph Nader etc, to be considered the most insightfull and acid wits and the greatest social satirists of all time--rather than their members and associate congregants remain mute and hoard the stockpile of Krishna-Prema & Krishna-Karma, and keep it within their own sanctorum!

 

Memebers of Iskcon, as we all are, have watched indifferently throughout the course of our collectively recent world history --that mocks are earnest efforts to inform karmis of how to avoid ugra-karma.

 

"While good men stayed silent" --all atrocious & heinous adharma prospers among "LOSERS ON A WORLD-WIDE SCALE"-- propaganda abounds while mudhas practice their craft of spinning chaos at a more affordable price day-after-day.

 

 

The karmis are usurping all Yoga terminology and thus I will presume to say that they know what we know but cannot articulate it because they have not witnessed a bold devotee personally speak-up.

 

Yall think we've yet been In-Their-Faces? Ya'll ain't seen nothin yet.

 

Lot of truth Bhaktajan. Prabhupada threw down the gauntlet at the feet of the godless leaders and mass exploiters of human kind. He was prepared to "kick on their face with boot." I love it. Of course he had his own life together first and taught by example prior to teaching by precept.

 

But we needn't be saints to speak out. If a murder speaks up and intervenes an aronists attempt to burn down a families home the fact that he has murdered in the past does not nullify the goodness of the intervention.

 

"Armed with yoga stand and fight."

 

 

 

As Bhaktajan brought out those who claime to follow him must do the same.

[AncientMariner]

 

Memebers of Iskcon should fearlessly criticise the karmi leaders, movers & shakers immediately without let down.

 

ISKCON should assume the position of the worlds' William F. Buckley or Robert Frost or Lewis Carrol or Upton Sinclair or Ralph Nader etc, to be considered the most insightfull and acid wits and the greatest social satirists of all time--rather than their members and associate congregants remain mute and hoard the stockpile of Krishna-Prema & Krishna-Karma, and keep it within their own sanctorum!

 

Memebers of Iskcon, as we all are, have watched indifferently throughout the course of our collectively recent world history --that mocks are earnest efforts to inform karmis of how to avoid ugra-karma.

 

"While good men stayed silent" --all atrocious & heinous adharma prospers among "LOSERS ON A WORLD-WIDE SCALE"-- propaganda abounds while mudhas practice their craft of spinning chaos at a more affordable price day-after-day.

 

 

The karmis are usurping all Yoga terminology and thus I will presume to say that they know what we know but cannot articulate it because they have not witnessed a bold devotee personally speak-up.

 

Yall think we've yet been In-Their-Faces? Ya'll ain't seen nothin yet.

 

 

 

Well you definetly have an opportunity to make some headway in this time of crisis. People are probably more apt to listen when things are in distress than when everyone is getting everything material they need. I don't like the in your face approach unless you have a true Krishna Consciousness well armed army behind you ready to business if need be. Otherwise the in your face approach just is viewed by the public as crazy ranting. I do respect the lone wolf ranters and they probably end up as heros in this battle but when ever I have ranted people usually just laugh me off so I don't have much enthusiasm for that approach without the support of an army.

[Deathless]

 

 

The following is an interesting debate. Actually, I admire the writtings

of both Kesava Krsna Prabhu and Rocana Prabhu.

 

 

 

Avoiding False Humility

 

BY: ROCANA DASA

 

 

Oct 3, CANADA (SUN) —

I have recently been engaged in a discussion with

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

. The dialogue began with my reply to his "Them ‘N All" article on Dandavats.

 

 

I offered my comments in an

Obeisances to Dandavats

editorial, and received his prompt reply. There following several rounds of exchange (see links at bottom of this article).

 

 

A few days ago I received the following note of apology from

Kesava

Krsna

prabhu:

• Dear Rocana prabhu,
  
  
  
  Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
  
  
  
  I have directed my responses to you personally and have clearly displeased you by doing so. Whether in mind or heart, please forgive me if I have offended you. I hope you will look kindly upon me. I am very sorry.
  
  
  Your servant,
  
  
  Kesava
  Krsna
  dasa

 

It's comes as a bit of a surprise to me that

Kesava

Krsna

is so fixated on this whole idea of offending… me offending him, me offending some leader in ISKCON, him offending me, etc., etc.

 

 

Frankly, I think the whole concept of 'offending people' is blown way out of proportion in the ISKCON community

.

First of all, we're not great, exalted Vaisnavas.

 

 

The person we should seriously worry about offending is Srila Prabhupada. Beyond that, this offense business is used more as a ploy to keep people in line in the institution than anything else.

 

 

It's obvious that

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

has been well indoctrinated into this practice. Calling each other Vaisnavas, advanced devotees and senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada is all very nice.

 

 

But when it comes to the point where we can't address something we think is not in line with the Sampradaya Acarya's instructions without being accused of being critical, then it's ridiculous. We're simply muzzled as a result, not protected from "Vaisnava aparadha".

 

 

The gist of my entire theme of Srila Prabhupada as Sampradaya Acarya is not simply about putting Srila Prabhupada in his rightful place, but also putting us in our rightful place, which is infinitesimally small in comparison.

 

 

As such, we can't get hung up with all this etiquette business to the detriment of our own spiritual life and preaching

Krsna

Consciousness.

 

 

We can't interpret the dictums of etiquette in such a way that we become discouraged from correcting the problems that keep our spiritual life and the preaching from unfolding in a way that would please the Sampradaya Acaryas.

 

 

I'm sure that

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

and I would get along royally if we were just good friends or neighbors, or lived in the same community, but we don't. Instead, he has essentially taken the position of being a spokesman for ISKCON.

 

 

I am responding to his writings, and that is the nature of our relationship. Many of us in the wider community don't often get the opportunity to discuss issues with those who run the institution, so we have to make do with what is given -- in this case,

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

.

 

 

But that doesn't stop me from mentioning my Godbrothers, who are still strongly holding onto the reins of power in ISKCON, and who should be held accountable for many of the unfortunate things that have been and still are going on.

 

 

I recently enjoyed talking at length with a sincere brahmacari. He told me about the advice he had received from an American guru/sannyasis who travels to various temples in ISKCON.

 

 

This ISKCON leader advised him not to preach in North America because it was hopeless. He told this devotee to go to Eastern Europe, India or South America, because people are more receptive there. So no wonder the preaching in North America has taken an obvious downturn, so much so that they've had to form the quasi-corporate SSPT committee in order to attempt to remediate or reverse this trend.

 

 

One of the main problems in North America has been the 'brain drain', wherein advanced preachers and sincere disciples are getting initiated by gurus who spend most of their time outside of America, and entice their American disciples to follow them as they preach to the "more receptive" people.

 

 

Many of those gurus and sannyasis who remain in America appear to be in some sort of retired hibernation. We seldom hear anything about their activities.

Kesava

Krsna

dasa's guru happens to be among this group.

 

 

When

Kesava

Krsna

speaks out he represents both himself and his guru, and one has to assume that he's representing the guru as much as he's representing Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON.

 

 

So in that respect, I feel it's within my right and duty to point out actions of his guru that appear to be contradictory from what Srila Prabhupada expected of him.

 

 

This is one of the many points that I've brought up in my articles which Kesava Krsna has chosen to avoid under the guise of all this false humility.

 

 

It's just a smokescreen. In reality, he's been defeated and won't admit it. In a morning walk conversation I was recently listening to, Srila Prabhupada was challenging the devotees to come up with an answer to his philosophical assertions.

 

 

They couldn't, and Srila Prabhupada said if you can't give a rebuttal, that automatically means you've been defeated. If you want to follow Vaisnava etiquette, then you should at least admit it when you've been defeated. This is the honorable thing to do.

 

 

So

Kesava

Krsna

prabhu, if I'm wrong and you haven't been defeated, than let's step away from all the aparadha allegations and apologies, and get down to addressing the philosophical points I raised in my original article.

 

 

After all the time we've spent going back and forth about criticism, etiquette and aparadha, we could have discussed the real issues threadbare by now.

 

 

Your apology is accepted, and I hope you'll also forgive me for having offended you or your spiritual master in any way. Now kindly address the philosophical issues I've laid out, or give me your hand in defeat.

 

 

 

<center>

Links to the Discussion Thread

 

(Most recent at bottom)

 

“Them ‘N All”

 

Obeisances to Dandavats

 

Them ‘N All Reply

 

More on Them ‘N All

 

Beware! The fault-finders

 

Free Speech In Krishna Consciousness

 

Clarification

 

Response to

Kesava

Krsna

dasa

 

Who are the leaders in Iskcon?

 

Why Can't We Be One Happy Family?

When Srila Prabhupada is Happy, the Family is Happy

 

</center>

I think their idea of 'offense' is rather arrogant.

 

They don't care in the slightest if you insult an Advaita Vedantist or a Shaiva , even to the point of mocking their faiths.

 

But say one negative thing about a Vaishnava - even if the statement has nothing to do with Vaishnavism - and you go straight to hell. How very self-serving.

[AncientMariner]

The only person that can truly be offended is Krishna it seems, everything else is just false humility. That being said it is probably best to do our best to communicate civily with each other whenever possible just to not take the risk of offending Krishna. Just my opinion as I have much work to do with this myself.

 

It seems like even the great Krishna Concsciousness warriors like Arjuna were calm and collected even when they were killing their enemies at Krishna's request. And in the story of Jesus he rebuked his enemies forcefully with words but at the same time he prayed for them it seems.

 

I generally don't get into the deep philosophical arguments because I am not smart enough to argue them and the fact that I have seen virtually the same debates over and over so many times for many years. I am waiting for a whole paradigm shift, don't know if it will ever come or not.

[theist]

 

I am waiting for a whole paradigm shift, don't know if it will ever come or not.

 

 

This shift is personal. It comes to each individually. It is also known as The change of heart.

[AncientMariner]

 

This shift is personal. It comes to each individually. It is also known as The change of heart.

 

 

Very true. I am looking and hoping for it too happen on a massive scale if the golden age as some prophecies seem to indicate is ever to manifest. If the balance ever were to tip in favor then the mode of goodness it could make a strong surge because if there are more and more good peope then kids will grow up around good people and things could possibly multiply from there.

 

Who knows what is going to happen and on the whole things are supposed to continue to decay in the Kali-yuga but I get the sense that there is supposed to be some kind of mini golden age within this Kali-yuga but who knows for sure.

 

 

I look at it as almost like a stock. Now the modes of passion, ignorance and darkness are so heavy and dominant that when it does hit bottom it could bounce hard the other way.

[theist]

 

Very true. I am looking and hoping for it too happen on a massive scale if the golden age as some prophecies seem to indicate is ever to manifest. If the balance ever were to tip in favor then the mode of goodness it could make a strong surge because if there are more and more good peope then kids will grow up around good people and things could possibly multiply from there.

 

Who knows what is going to happen and on the whole things are supposed to continue to decay in the Kali-yuga but I get the sense that there is supposed to be some kind of mini golden age within this Kali-yuga but who knows for sure.

 

 

I look at it as almost like a stock. Now the modes of passion, ignorance and darkness are so heavy and dominant that when it does hit bottom it could bounce hard the other way.

 

Remember what Christ said about looking for the Kingdom of God with external vision. Won't happen. The Kingdom of God is within us. Even if six billion people found the Kingdom within themselves still they found it personally as an individual

 

Many individuals may make up a movement but the movement is never independent of the revelation of the individual.

[chandu_69]

 

But say one negative thing about a Vaishnava - even if the statement has nothing to do with Vaishnavism - and you go straight to hell. How very self-serving.

Who said they said that the critics are going to hell??

Ofcourse you are no advaitan is clear from your posts.Advaitans close to being atheists dont bother because what some iskonites or vaishanavites going to think or say is'nt going to effect them a bit.

[canyenero]

If in Iskcon it is ok to offend each other then I dont think Krishna's message is getting through. Krishna did not say Chant and dance and offend.

I know so many religous communitys never heard its ok to offend other devotees.

[sambya]

i think it is rather very easy to be a 'devotee'(in literal sense) in iskcon world !! all you have to do is be utra polite and never raise your voice and visit the temple frequently . at least this is the case in india ..........i dont know about west . i have seen many not so holy individuals pass off as high devotees just by adopting these pretences while many sincere devotees persecuted for activities like reading other philosophies or questioning some temple activities ! this no doubt is a deformation of mahaprabhu ' s "trinad api sunichena " . real humility comes with progress in devotional service and there is just no other way round ! iskcon it seems is a bit too preoccupied with this show of humility and unnecessary concern for vaishnava apradha ! no doubt it restricts the movement .

 

secondly they are completely free to criticise and hate any other faith or sect . among the traditional gaudiya acharyas there was a strong dislike for contemporary advaitins . but modern version seems to dislike every other faith within indian landmass !! they see it as their responsibility to criticise brahmins by birth(no matter how pious they are) , hinduism , devas , devi , vedic culture , tantra , new age gurus and almost everyone !! for example what do they mean by the word 'karmi' ? it is used even for a spiritual devotee of any other god .

 

and sadly no other senior member restricts their movements ... but i cannot remember such hatred in any of the traditional gurus of gaudiya sampradya . they all peacefully coexisted with others .

[srikrishnadas]

What you are saying is happening, offending other faiths, but it isn't what Prabhupada instructed. He said you bow down for a mayavadi sannyasi. He also said Christianity and Islam are bona fide religions, and explained that any religion that teaches how to love God is a bona fide religion. He said Jesus is a manifestation of Krishna's Shakti, a saktyavesavatara.

 

Being a vaishnava means to be humble and to follow the country's laws. Ordinary politeness, being a gentleman, should be one of the vaishnava's weapons.

 

And yes, the golden age is happening. We can compare the standard of life, the average lifespan, and many things to just 500 to 1000 years ago, We can clearly see a drastic improvement over the last 500 years. Consciousness is being raised together with science. It is just a matter of time before the scientists, widely discover and accept the concept of God (or an intelligent being) as the creator as opposed to a cosmic soup - chaos.

 

We now all need to work together. Caitanya says God has unlimited names and we can chant them all togehter; muslims, hindus, christians, brahmavadis (more commonly known here as mayavadis), shaivas, vaishnas, shaktas, atheïsts, everyone can chant and dance together. There aren't any hard and fast rules for it.

 

About offences in Iskcon: Say sorry when you hurt someone, it is just common sense. Also don't critisize too much, Jesus says: For what you judge another, you shall be judged. This should be common vaishnava knowledge.

[Smiley]

Not only that but even if you say you don't believe in Jesus or that he was a Jewish Rabbi and not a Hindu -

"Aah! You have offended a pure Vaishnava devotee!"

 

Re: Swami Prabhupada - how can anyone offend an inhabitant of the Spiritual World? What is offended

(when it really is offense and not just claimed offense for the purpose of manipulation) are the sentiments of his disciples.

 

 

 

I think their idea of 'offense' is rather arrogant.

 

They don't care in the slightest if you insult an Advaita Vedantist or a Shaiva , even to the point of mocking their faiths.

 

But say one negative thing about a Vaishnava - even if the statement has nothing to do with Vaishnavism - and you go straight to hell. How very self-serving.

[Smiley]

I don't agree with your interpretation of Saktyavesa Avatar. Jesus is a jiva and a Saktyavesa Avatar is any jiva

empowered by Krishna to preach God consciousness - including Mohammed! I have added bold text to the quote below:

 

 

Conversations : 1975 Conversations : March, 1975 : Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London : 750311mw.lon :

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaktyāveṣa avatāra, somebody empowered by Him, not Kṛṣṇa Himself. Just like Christ. Christ is also

empowered incarnation. Śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Mohammed is also. Anyone who is preaching about God is empowered incarnation.

http://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?g=161873&h=mohammed&f=397802#397802

 

 

What you are saying is happening, offending other faiths, but it isn't what Prabhupada instructed. He said you bow down for a mayavadi sannyasi. He also said Christianity and Islam are bona fide religions, and explained that any religion that teaches how to love God is a bona fide religion. He said Jesus is a manifestation of Krishna's Shakti, a saktyavesavatara.

 

Being a vaishnava means to be humble and to follow the country's laws. Ordinary politeness, being a gentleman, should be one of the vaishnava's weapons.

 

And yes, the golden age is happening. We can compare the standard of life, the average lifespan, and many things to just 500 to 1000 years ago, We can clearly see a drastic improvement over the last 500 years. Consciousness is being raised together with science. It is just a matter of time before the scientists, widely discover and accept the concept of God (or an intelligent being) as the creator as opposed to a cosmic soup - chaos.

 

We now all need to work together. Caitanya says God has unlimited names and we can chant them all togehter; muslims, hindus, christians, brahmavadis (more commonly known here as mayavadis), shaivas, vaishnas, shaktas, atheïsts, everyone can chant and dance together. There aren't any hard and fast rules for it.

 

About offences in Iskcon: Say sorry when you hurt someone, it is just common sense. Also don't critisize too much, Jesus says: For what you judge another, you shall be judged. This should be common vaishnava knowledge.