vaishnavs have a very insuffcient and partial view of advaita vedanta

[sambya]

i have always noticed that vaishnavs(specially iskcon) have a very insufficient knowledge of advaita.their arguments are mostly based on what their respective guru told them instead of what they have read and understood.im not against vaishnavs or krishna but this thread is to prove their ignorance regaurding advaita.and before venturing further i should humbly request everyone to read with a clear and impartial mind.

 

MISTAKE 1 : they keep on assuming that brahman is an entity and has a particular state of existence.reading through a bit of advaitic books would clearly reveal that it is not so.brahman is perfect and absolute unity.it is one without a second.it does not come into existence.its the only thing that exists.

 

MIATAKE 2 : they believe that brahman is krishna's angajyoti.this is utter nonsense.the very nature of brahman is complete and absolute unity.so where does krishna come in ,in the first place ?this angayoti concept is of much later origins when vishnu worshippers wanted to glorify their ishtadev more than brahman.

 

MIATAKE 3 : they think that vaishnavism has been at the core of hinduism since the begining while advaita and else are all later developements.infact advaita was the dominant thought in vedic times only to be overshadowed in puranic era.that is why we find most upanishads to be mostly advaitic and puranas just the opposite.one of the biggest indication that brahman was at the root of sanatan dharma is the words braahman(one who is situated at brahmbhuta stage),brahmananda,brhmachari, etc.if krishna was the supreme then it would all have begun with krishna instead.you cant deny history can you?

 

MISTAKE 4 : they often quote a story---" an advaitic sadhak believes in 'brahma satya jagat mithya'.but when his son dies and he cries with grief.where is your jagat mithya now??" this is ridiculous.a sadhak is never on the perfectional stage.he has his ego,mind and everything.he is trying to realize that this jagat is mithya.he have not achived that realization.so it is very natural for him to cry.and when he does achieve that state he dosent live any longer to tell the tale.

true advaitist sanyasis would never claim jagat mithya unless he realized that.till you have your ego.the world is existing before you.its only when you transcend all ego you can realize that stage.the problem however arises when some over enthusiastic advaitic aspirant starts shouting jagat mithya and simultaneously participates in material activities.

 

MIATAKE 5 : they think maya to have a continuous existence even in advaita.in the highest advaitic realization there is no such thing as maya.there is a well known story of mistaking a rope for a snake on stepping over it in the dark room and realizing moments later that it is a mere rope.but for those few moments it was a perfect snake to you.in a similar way we are in a perpetual delusion of thinking the one to be many.there is no such thing as cosmos or universe(the snake in the story) in pure advaita and maya is a name given to this unending delusion.

 

MISTAKE 6 : they think brahman to be void . this is pure idiocy. void is where nothing exists,and brahman is that who only exist.there is no second existence other than brahman. how can existence be void ?

 

MISTAKE 7 : they percieve brahman as something that can be speculated upon. this is out of absolute ignorance of advaita.the fundamental principle of advaita states that brahman is much beyond human endeavour or reasonong.it is vakya man atit(beyond mind and speech).so there is no scope of speculation in the first place.

 

MISTAKE 8 : their argument - "an advitic sadhak after attaining nirvikalpa samadhi comes down again to the level of material consciousness .this shows that material world is existing and not mithya,for why would he come back to this world after highest realizations"

this is a wrong notion that an advaitist comes down to material conciousness after nirvikalpa.the truth is that , on attaining nirvikalpa they give up body within 22 days.for once you are egoless and realized unity,the very concept of ' I ' dissapears.what happens then , cannot be described.

only a few rarest individuals believed as incarnations have ever come down to this platform of material conciousness to liberate mankind.

 

MISTAKE 9 : that advaita is a new theory propagated by shankara.advaita always existed side by side with other faiths.thats how other branches like vishishtadwaita,dvaitadwaita etc all have the word ' advaita ' in them .they couldnt do away with advaita philosophy,only they altered it to suit their needs.

 

MISTAKE 10 : They keep on laying stress on jiva and atman and similar concepts in thier arguments.but according to highest advaitic realizations there is no individual jivatman,paramatman and suchlike stuff.how come these things come inside what is called perfect and absolute unity(brahman).

 

 

these are a few of the serious blunders that these vaishnavs have been taught since the begining.and whenever they argue they cannot come out of this comical conceptions of brahman as an entity etc.

[Amlesh]

Who said so?

[Amlesh]

Have you met each and every Vaishnava and hahahaha... have you ever really met 1?

 

Please yaar if you've ever met one, show him to me.. my eyes have been always longing to see one.

[Amlesh]

You are the most pathetic among all, understand first who is a Vaishnava and all his qualities.

 

The day you'll understand that, you'll know for sure there is none or hardly one in this world.

 

Coming to more serious stuff....

 

What is Advaita and so great about Advaita?

These terms come from books right?

I hate books too and that too since I was a child.

 

Now come beta we'll discuss without any book reference and quotes.

[sambya]

well most guys in isckon puts forward these as their basic arguments.but hey,why do you think i dislike vaishnavs? i know that true vaishnavs are hard to find.and a true vaishnav is worthy of worship among men.i have nothing against such noble souls.its only the misconceptions and orthodoxy that im talking about.

 

you said you hate books.thats your individual choice and there's nothing wrong with it but the very foundation of spirituality rests on words and wisdom of ancient sages ,which we find in the books.without them i can never argue,because my knowledge of god is from their sayings and not through my own realization.and in any case,without books neither krishna nor brahman would exist(existence in our knowledge,not real existence, i mean.). the day i personally realize him i would rejoin the forum and argue without reference to books.

[Amlesh]

 

well most guys in isckon puts forward these as their basic arguments.but hey,why do you think i dislike vaishnavs? i know that true vaishnavs are hard to find.and a true vaishnav is worthy of worship among men.i have nothing against such noble souls.its only the misconceptions and orthodoxy that im talking about.

 

My sincere Apology to you if it's so. It's not been long when I've expressed my opinions on the Iskonites which was not pleasant but I can't expect much either.

 

 

 

you said you hate books.thats your individual choice and there's nothing wrong with it but the very foundation of spirituality rests on words and wisdom of ancient sages ,which we find in the books.without them i can never argue,because my knowledge of god is from their sayings and not through my own realization.and in any case,without books neither krishna nor brahma would exist(existence in our knowledge,not real existence, i mean.). the day i personally realize him i would rejoin the forum and argue without reference to books.

 

That statement of mine won't change.

My life and soul is the Devaki Putram Gitam and the Bhagvatam... but they are not books but conversations.. Divine Conversations.

 

Some down here like to quote, some like personal realisations, some prefer this, some that and some have atheistic views, some build their belief through the critics of other path, some really don't have any path but are here for fun and their questions are put forward not to derive to any conclusion with a humble approach but just to oscillate here and there... I guess they have only that as passtime for their day... really I guess they lack leisure...

 

No one is really alike but I've discovered a common thing about you all... you are all equally foolish.

[Amlesh]

That's the only common thing you all have.

[sambya]

that a real truth spoken by you. the materialists waste their time because they dont have anything better to do.but all of us here are a group of people who know that realization is the only goal in this rare human birth,and also know that life might end at any moment and yet spend hours in this forum instead of doing something for our own spiritual upliftment.

[Amlesh]

 

that a real truth spoken by you. the materialists waste their time because they dont have anything better to do.but all of us here are a group of people who know that realization is the only goal in this rare human birth,and also know that life might end at any moment and yet spend hours in this forum instead of doing something for our own spiritual upliftment.

 

Yep, I like to be here.. instead of playing gili danda with others in Hi5 or facebook. To be true, down here in Audarya, I've learn a lot with you all.

 

The difference is the thing that you all hate.. but I like, I'm so open that I take whatever I don't have from you all.

 

Keep on fighting and make my day.

[bhaktajan]

Ah Now We know what sambya thinks.

 

Spiritual Speculation out of Hopelessness

 

Too bad We have not learnt anything about the science of Advaita --from sambya.

 

Fact: A learned Vaishnava becomes enlivened by hearing the explaination(s) of other philosophical schools of thought.

 

Apparently only non-scholars are aware of this fact.

 

In america they say a man buys a gun to compensate for his shortcomings--similarly any fanatic neglects the protocols of decorum, propriety, and especially the intellectual process of learning a subject starting with classical primary school basics--instead they RANT about how the teachers are against him, and espcially rant about how they know more then the teachers, then they drop out and again it's the whole system agaist him etc etc etc.

 

Sambya, eat Krishna Prasadam--do not eat anything else.

 

Two tip for your spiritual development:

1--eat Krishna Prasadam cooked by the Pujari.

2--eat Krishna Prasadam from an Farm Community Cook.

 

A Vaishnava has a mandate to observe in regards to dealings with people like you:

 

So as not to disrupt the minds of ignorant men attached to the fruitive results of prescribed duties, a learned person should not induce them to stop work.

 

Rather, by working in the spirit of devotion, he should engage them in all sorts of activities for the gradual development of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> consciousness.

also,

 

Only the ignorant speak of devotional service [bhakti-yoga] as being different from the analytical study of the material world [jnana]. Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.

also,

Out of many standard and authoritative revealed scriptures, the Bhagavad-gita is the best.

Persons who are almost like animals have no faith in, or knowledge of, the standard revealed scriptures; and some, even though they have knowledge of, or can cite passages from, the revealed scriptures, have actually no faith in these words.

And even though others may have faith in scriptures like Bhagavad-gita, they do not believe in or worship the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna. Such persons cannot have any standing in <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> consciousness.

Out of all the above-mentioned persons, those who have no faith and are always doubtful make no progress at all.

Men without faith in God and His revealed word find no good in this world, nor in the next.

For them there is no happiness whatsoever. One should therefore follow the principles of revealed scriptures with faith and thereby be raised to the platform of knowledge.

 

Only this knowledge will help one become promoted to the transcendental platform of spiritual understanding.

In other words, doubtful persons have no status whatsoever in spiritual emancipation.

One should therefore follow in the footsteps of great acaryas who are in the disciplic succession and thereby attain success.

 

also,

 

Men who are ignorant cannot appreciate activities in <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> consciousness, and therefore Lord Krishna advises us not to disturb them and simply waste valuable time.

But the devotees of the Lord are more kind than the Lord because they understand the purpose of the Lord.

Consequently they undertake all kinds of risks, even to the point of approaching ignorant men to try to engage them in the acts of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> consciousness, which are absolutely necessary for the human being.

 

also,

 

There is a great misconception about the gods or demigods of this material world, and men of less intelligence, although passing as great scholars, take these demigods to be various forms of the Supreme Lord.

Actually, the demigods are not different forms of God, but they are God’s different parts and parcels. God is one, and the parts and parcels are many. The Vedas say, nityo nityanam: God is one.

'Ishvara parama krishna'. The Supreme God is one—<st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>—and the demigods are delegated with powers to manage this material world. These demigods are all living entities (nityanam) with different grades of material power.

They cannot be equal to the Supreme God—Narayana, Vishnu, or <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. Anyone who thinks that God and the demigods are on the same level is called an atheist, or 'pashandi'.

Even the great demigods like Brahma and Siva cannot be compared to the Supreme Lord. In fact, the Lord is worshiped by demigods such as Brahma and Siva (siva-virinci-nutam).

Yet curiously enough there are many human leaders who are worshiped by foolish men under the misunderstanding of anthropomorphism or zoomorphism.

'Iha devata' denotes a powerful man or demigod of this material world. But Narayana, Vishnu, or <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, does not belong to this world. He is above, or transcendental to, material creation.

Even Sripada Shankaracarya, the leader of the impersonalists, maintains that Narayana, or <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, is beyond this material creation.

 

Also,

 

It is very difficult for a person who is too materially affected to understand the personal nature of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Generally, people who are attached to the bodily conception of life are so absorbed in materialism that it is almost impossible for them to understand how the Supreme can be a person.

Such materialists cannot even imagine that there is a transcendental body which is imperishable, full of knowledge and eternally blissful. In the materialistic concept, the body is perishable, full of ignorance and completely miserable.

Therefore, people in general keep this same bodily idea in mind when they are informed of the personal form of the Lord. For such materialistic men, the form of the gigantic material manifestation is supreme. Consequently they consider the Supreme to be impersonal.

And because they are too materially absorbed, the conception of retaining the personality after liberation from matter frightens them.

When they are informed that spiritual life is also individual and personal, they become afraid of becoming persons again, and so they naturally prefer a kind of merging into the impersonal void. Generally, they compare the living entities to the bubbles of the ocean, which merge into the ocean.

That is the highest perfection of spiritual existence attainable without individual personality. This is a kind of fearful stage of life, devoid of perfect knowledge of spiritual existence. Furthermore there are many persons who cannot understand spiritual existence at all.

Being embarrassed by so many theories and by contradictions of various types of philosophical speculation, they become disgusted or angry and foolishly conclude that there is no supreme cause and that everything is ultimately void.

Such people are in a diseased condition of life. Some people are too materially attached and therefore do not give attention to spiritual life, some of them want to merge into the supreme spiritual cause, and some of them disbelieve in everything, being angry at all sorts of spiritual speculation out of hopelessness.

[sambya]

hey amalesh,i dont hate nor try to spread it.im a follower of ramakrishna vivekananda thought,which was the first to teach of respecting(not just tolerating) every religion.how can i hate.i always belive in assimilation of ideas.

but what comments i make about the isckon people or some vaishnavs are a result of a lot of bad experience.i was brought up in a vaishnav goswami family with modern educated values and broad outlook.but when i turned to iskcon for spirituality i found that all of them and many other vaishnavs also, still stick to medieval theories of downplaying every other beliefs.this hurt my sentiments.but still i tried to overlook their faults by acknowledging their sucsess in preaching to the west,their devotion and dedication etc. but for how long? i noticed that they cherish this art of derogating others and twist the shastric slokas to their need.any person with minimum knowledge of sanskrit would understand that.this and innumerable other causes have made me do what i do today.

[sambya]

hello bhaktajan.good to see you here again.whatever you said is all true and nice,no doubts about that. bhagavad gita is indeed the best of hindu scriptures,i believe that.krishnastu bhagavan swayam, no harm in that.but what all my posts wants to convey is to realise that there can be no monopoly in understanding god or interpretating gita.one cannot draw a line and say this is the only ever true interpretation of gita.god is infinite with innumerable mellows,ananta rasa , ananta bhava.how can you put him within a finite space by saying he is this and nothing else ? nether do i wish you to change your belief.gauddiya vaishnavism is a wonderfull path,but make this small change in your attitude towards others and everything would be perfect.

 

btw, i do the archana of twelve shalagrams everyday and take the prasadam since i got my upanayan in childhood days.thats how im blessed with such a broadness of mind.if you want i can tell you where to find shalagrams and archana paddhati according to narada pancharatra AS IT IS.

[kaisersose]

 

i was brought up in a vaishnav goswami family with modern educated values and braod outlook.but when i turned to iskcon for spirituality i found that all of them and many other vaishnavs also, still stick to medieval theories of downplaying every other beliefs.this hurt my sentiments.but still i tried to overlook their faults by acknowledging their sucsess in preaching to the west,their devotion and dedication etc. but for how long? i noticed that they cherish this art of derogating others and twist the shastric slokas to their need...

 

Prabhupada's tolerance policy is modeled after semitic religions and not based on Hindu beliefs. The former consists of accepting a single belief and destroying everything else, as we have seen in history. The latter, though still consisting of a single belief is much more accomodating and receptive about co-existing with other beliefs.

 

This is a fundamental difference and explains why you see Prabhupada followers - especially westerners - spending a lot of their time & energy mocking and criticizing other beliefs, mainly Advaita, Shaivism, Sai Baba, etc. Due to their Christian backgrounds, a number of them are very sympathetic towards Jesus and find it very important to include Jesus in their own custom brand of Vaishnavism. Other than this, they are ever willing to put down everyone else.

 

Thankfully, their lack of depth of knowledge is self-obvious and no one takes them seriously. In the history of this forum, in spite of their constant proselytization and non-stop criticism of Advaita and Shaivism, no one was impressed enough to change over to their camp, though the reverse happened in some cases.

 

Perhaps, they may have had better luck if they had refrained from putting down others and focused only on their positive points. But the damage has been done and the clock cannot be turned back. At this time, it is more critical for them to stop their own people from moving away

 

Cheers

[bhaktajan]

OMG.

 

All the poorly educated inner city youths along with central american & chicano Gangs along with unwed teenage mothers have all moving away to Advaita and Shaivism --it must be what is happening.

 

We have been bambarded with so mush information about the constituent requist departments of Advaita and Shaivism that everybody cares nothing about the scandalous rumors of Krishna's Rasa-lila dance. But I digress.

 

Hugh Hefner has become a Monk. Micheal Jackson has shaved his head.

Bill Gates is attending to rickshaw wallas' footcare.

We have lost our celebraties to the non-iskconers.

No more society for Krishna Conscoiusness.

What is next, full indoor plumbing for everyone?

[sambya]

bhaktajan

you have a rare talent to entertain people.i find your posts so amusing and funny.you have not said whether you would like to start shalagram archan according to pancharatra.if you want i can even send you some that i personally collected in my muktinath trek.

i feel so sorry that im going to mayapur day after tommorow for three days on occasion of rasayatra. i would miss all your fun here.

sad,but what to do? i have to understand all of iskcon's faults,scandals(they have a full library of that right since the prabhupada poisoning case),and idiotic scriptural interpretations so that i realise whats going on in the world in name of religion and become devoted to my own faith. koti dandavat.

[theist]

 

bhaktajan

you have a rare talent to entertain people.i find your posts so amusing and funny.you have not said whether you would like to start shalagram archan according to pancharatra.if you want i can even send you some that i personally collected in my muktinath trek.

i feel so sorry that im going to mayapur day after tommorow for three days on occasion of rasayatra. i would miss all your fun here.

sad,but what to do? i have to understand all of iskcon's faults,scandals(they have a full library of that right since the prabhupada poisoning case),and idiotic scriptural interpretations so that i realise whats going on in the world in name of religion and become devoted to my own faith. koti dandavat.

 

It is a much bewidered mind that thinks the path to building one's own body of inner truth lies in digesting the failings of others.

[sambya]

im not digesting it.im recording it in memory to utilise as necessary

[theist]

 

im not digesting it.im recording it in memory to utilise as necessary

 

And what is the necessity of knowing the dirty laundry of others? How will that help you transcend the evils of birth death old age and disease. Sure you can spend lifetimes hanging out in samsara wallowing in gossip, but is it wise to do so?

 

It will not build your own faith. There are better reasons to go to Mayapur.

Take the high road (in mind) with you to the celebration in Mayapur and forget the shortcomings of others that you may see there.

[Amlesh]

 

hey amalesh,i dont hate nor try to spread it.im a follower of ramakrishna vivekananda thought,which was the first to teach of respecting(not just tolerating) every religion.how can i hate.i always belive in assimilation of ideas.

but what comments i make about the isckon people or some vaishnavs are a result of a lot of bad experience.i was brought up in a vaishnav goswami family with modern educated values and broad outlook.but when i turned to iskcon for spirituality i found that all of them and many other vaishnavs also, still stick to medieval theories of downplaying every other beliefs.this hurt my sentiments.but still i tried to overlook their faults by acknowledging their sucsess in preaching to the west,their devotion and dedication etc. but for how long? i noticed that they cherish this art of derogating others and twist the shastric slokas to their need.any person with minimum knowledge of sanskrit would understand that.this and innumerable other causes have made me do what i do today.

 

It was not targeted towards you, pal.

[Amlesh]

In fact Sambya, anyone who will see the behavior of iskonites will definitely have a wrong opinion about Vaishnavism.

It's not me who says so, but many people I've come across and we don't need to climb on top of coconut trees to see that.

[sambya]

 

And what is the necessity of knowing the dirty laundry of others? How will that help you transcend the evils of birth death old age and disease. Sure you can spend lifetimes hanging out in samsara wallowing in gossip, but is it wise to do so?

 

It will not build your own faith. There are better reasons to go to Mayapur.

Take the high road (in mind) with you to the celebration in Mayapur and forget the shortcomings of others that you may see there.

firstly that was not written to be taken so seriously.it was kind of a joke.secondly ill tell you a truth.since childhood i have been an ardent admirer of mayapur,with their efforts to restore the ancient temple city concept,the unusually high devotion of some western devotees,their kirtans,dedication ,in short everything.there can hardly be any parralels to its spiritual vibrations.its exhilarating to see thousands of devotes dancing away in those tedious parikrama and made me remind of those beautifull days of gauranga mahaprabhu when bengal shook with naam sankiratan.but fortunately as a child i was a book worm and my family used to travel a lot and thus developed a strong reasoning power and broadness of mind.sadly as i entered deep into the folds of iskon i realized their narrowness,orthodoxy and fundamentalist veiws which are entirelly based on selective interpretation of selected scriptures.

still i tried to overlook their faults,for im an optimist by nature and it should not be the nature of spiritual seekers to find faults with others.but iskcon never stopped their way of fault finding with others.and the final nail in the coffin was struck when there was a direct insult(by only a few half educated east bengal refugee brahmacaris)to some particular religious personalities and me on account of my belief in them .thats exposed their degree of fundamentalism for the last time.not only are the iskconites unintellectual but they know nothing about that personality ,except the rubbish taught to them by their authorities.they abuse(not just criticise)everyone right from rabindranath tagore,mahatma,aurobindo,maxmuller,vivekananda,radhakrishnan, dayanand saraswti,sankaracharya,durga ........etc and claim themselves to be the only monopoly traders in god realization.

my friend,you must realize im indeed speaking out of being frustated with iskconites.

it was after this i turned totally anti iskcon and continue to be so.if their path is so perfect why are there so many scandals and falldowns?many other advaitist organisations do not have even a quarter as much as them.

 

there is a saying that if you ever come across guru ninda(someone saying ill words towrds your guru)then either leave the place or rise up and protest. i chose the latter.

how would it help? it might indeed help a lot.for example if i ever want to avenge me and my guru's insult by publishing all these comments about these illustrious personalities(revered as saints in india) and the scandals in a few newspapers here i dont think it can attract any more youth forum members.not that im going to do that in any case.for if i do, there would be no difference between you guys and me.i belive in validity of all paths. .

 

now you have my point.instead of continuing posting here ,think of this story carefully and work hard to rectify your organisation,so that you dont churn out more and more anti isckonites in this world.already the world is filled with them.

 

nonetheless, theres one comforting thought.have you ever heard of brahma samaj movement of 9th century. it rose in bengal as an attempt to reform hinduism and save it from christian missionaries.but their leaders were grossly mistaken and derided varnasharm,idol worship and many other facets of hinduism.it quickly grew to a monumental size acttracting mostly rich aristrocrats,western educated college youths and the intellegentsia of the socety.its popularity made evry contemporary person think that it would grow and eventually replace hinduism.but scandals and fight for power crept in almost along with its inception and it dissapeared without a trace by 1940's.

now that sociological and historical rules dont change irrespective of whatever the circumstances may be,i can see the same symptoms within iskcon.so we can safely assume that it shall be another 50 years or so for it to end peacefully.time would be the best answer.

 

im extremely sorry for if ive offended anyone by this post.and i want to keep some genuine devotees of iskcon out of these comments.a true bhakta is never bound by any institution ,you know.

[theist]

 

secondly ill tell you a truth.since childhood i have been an ardent admirer of mayapur,with their efforts to restore the ancient temple city concept,the unusually high devotion of some western devotees,their kirtans,dedication ,in short everything.there can hardly be any parralels to its spiritual vibrations.its exhilarating to see thousands of devotes dancing away in those tedious parikrama and made me remind of those beautifull days of gauranga mahaprabhu when bengal shook with naam sankiratan.

 

So why not be content with the above. Keep it simple for the sake of your own mental balance. Since you are not going to be a member of Iskcon then be like the swan and take the above from Iskcon and ignore the rest.

 

You have become so negatively attached to Iskcon that when someone says Vaisnavism you think of them only. As Amlesh said on one thread today that a self REALized Vaisnava in this world is so rare.

 

Do you know how many people claim to be adherents of Advaita or some similar impersonalist system and still live the life of gross materialist. But when I think of Advaitins I don't think of them.

 

 

now you have my point.instead of continuing posting here ,think of this story carefully and work hard to rectify your organisation,so that you dont churn out more and more anti isckonites in this world.already the world is filled with them.

 

Now here is a point for you to think about. You naturally consider iskcon "my organization". The truth is I have no connection with Iskcon or any other instituiton. Nor am I seeking any institutional connection. I need to link up with God and Him alone.

 

Now I have a question for you. Since neither you or I am part of that organization why do you feel it is necessary that we discuss them on this thread?

[sambya]

 

be like the swan and take the above from Iskcon and ignore the rest.

thats what im trying to say all this time.iskcon should take the best of everyone and ignore the rest.

 

 

I need to link up with God and Him alone.

not joining institution is fine but i think a guru is necessary(sadly true gurus are hard to find.

 

 

Now I have a question for you. Since neither you or I am part of that organization why do you feel it is necessary that we discuss them on this thread?

 

thats because when i first came in here i saw it had become a place for spreading hate(mostly) towards all that dont conform to the belief of isckon.and with only a few people to refute their points it had virtually become the pramod udyan(garden of pleasure) for them.

 

its perfectly ok that most users are iskconites or people of similar faiths.but why should this incessant abuse go on unrefuted?spiritual discussions doesnt mean iskconic discussions only.

[theist]

 

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> be like the swan and take the above from Iskcon and ignore the rest. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> thats what im trying to say all this time.iskcon should take the best of everyone and ignore the rest.

 

 

Why just Iskcon? Everyone should do this. Another point is this is something that is done by individuals, personally within themselves. It is not an act of an organization.

 

You and I need to do this irregardless if everyone in Iskcon does it or not.

 

Bhakti is personal not instituional.

[theist]

 

not joining institution is fine but i think a guru is necessary(sadly true gurus are hard to find.

 

You don't approach an institution to find guru. You don't go hiking in the Himalayas. You go to God to find guru.

 

The Lord in the heart is known as Caitya-guru. We who are caught up in external sense perception pray to the Lord in the heart to please reveal His true representative who comes to us from within this external world. Srila Prabhupada would often say, "By the grace of God one gets guru and by the grace of guru one gets God."