Puri priests up in arms against ISKCON The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy

[Sarva gattah]

i LOVE PURIS AND OKRA

[theist]

 

What does Sati Devi dying for her husband have to do with Vaishyas and Shudras needing to kill themselves upon hearing an offense against one of Vishnu's worshipers? I get that you believe Shiva is a Vaishnava, and Sati Devi killed herself upon hearing him insulted, but I don't think Shiva or Vishnu want Vaishyas and Shudras to kill themselves when they happen to be in the vicinity of someone insulting a Vaishnava's choice of wardrobe or a goofy haircut.

 

Seriously try to think a little deeper. No one is talking about wardrobes or haircuts so why inject such a silly thing into the conversation? Everything is there in the narrative and the purports of Srila Prabhupada.

 

We can accept what he says and try to understand how to apply it in the context of todays society or not.

 

BY the way I haven't worn a dhoti or had a shaved head since 1971. I look more like my avatar, my childhood guru, Alfred. Alfred once said to me, "Son if you want to keep your groove smooth then never talk bad story about the enlightened ones."

 

I have nothing to new to add.

 

Hare Krsna

[Sarva gattah]

 

I thought that the central teaching of this story was that Lord Caitanya did not appear in order to punish the wicked, but to show them mercy.

 

That is what adi-guru Lord Nityananda was teaching.

 

I did not say anywhere that such offenses should be tolerated without doing anything about it.

 

But WHAT we do about it is a measure of our intelligence and spiritual vision.

 

What I suggested is one of the appropriate actions from BRS: to sit down with an offender and convince them of their error in judgement.

What is written below by Jahnava Nitai Das is not eactly correct in this age of Kali-yuga. By taking shelter of Lord Caitanyas pure devotee puts one above the need to apologise to anyone - Why? Because such srrender puts one above material bodily identity that is the cause of the offense.

 

So Technically the material body is controlled by the modes of nature, just as the puppet master controls a puppet.

Once we REALIZE it is just playing a role in Maha Vishnu's cosmic dream play, then we SEE the so called offence is just part of the LILA or 'PLAY' to make Prabhupada even more famous.

See the bigger picture of what is really going on here. I really believe Prabhupada woUld NOT be offended by a 'photo' being burned, in fact he would chuckle to himself and say

Srila Prabhupada would most likely say - "AH, NOW WE HAVE GOT THEIR ATTENTION, NOW THEY ARE STARTING TO RECOGNISE US".

Quote:

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Jahnava Nitai Das

The story of Jagai and Madhai is specifically about an offense to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offense and consider it a lesson in humilty fom Lord Krishna".

 

Rather Lord Caitanya wanted to punish the offenders severely.

 

Only the person who is offended has the right to forgive the offender.

 

None of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada.

 

It is not within our rights to tolerate it, forgive them for it, or remain humble about it.

 

Why?

 

Because it wasnt an offense to us.

 

We can only tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offenses. We have no right to tolerate someone else's sufferings, hardships or offenses.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[gauragopala dasa]

Technically the material body is controlled by the modes of nature, just as the puppet master controls a puppet.

Once we REALIZE it is just playing a role in Maha Vishnu's cosmic dream play, then we SEE the so called offence is just part of the LILA or 'PLAY' to make Prabhupada even more famous.

See the bigger picture of what is really going on here. I really believe a ‘photo’ being burned would NOT offend Prabhupada; in fact he would chuckle to himself and say

"AH, NOW WE HAVE GOT THEIR ATTENTION, NOW THEY ARE STARTING TO RECOGNISE US".

The story of Jagai and Madhai is specifically about an offence to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offence

One day while Nityananda Prabhu was returning in the dark the two brothers accosted him. On learning His identity, Madhai became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot. When Jagai saw the blood flow from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother. While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation,

people ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident.

Hearing that the brothers had hurt Nityananda Prabhu, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them. He summoned His chakra, which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers. <b>However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.</b>

It seems none of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada because they must seek forgiveness themselves however, in Kali-yuga, these rules have also changed thanks to the causeless mercy of Lord Nityananda.

We must preach intelligently for Krishna.

Doing nothing about ISKCON’s founder's 'photo' being burned is not Prabhupada's way.

Why?

We can tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offences but we should NEVER tolerate our Spiritual Master being treated this way <b>even if he does see the bigger picture of Lord Caitanya's Golden Age unfolding.</b>

All Glorious to Srila Prabhupada, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

[Sarva gattah]

Original sent to Dandavats -Anuttama dasa from ISKCON Communications recently wrote -

 

"The city of Jagannatha Puri is worshipable for members of ISKCON. It is an important holy place, or tirtha. It is the home of the famous Jagannatha Rathayatra, said to be the world’s largest annual religious event, which draws millions of pilgrims every year.

One of Srila Prabhupada’s greatest achievements is that by his vision and personal direction Jagannatha Rathayatra is now observed-in an authentic, traditional manner-in dozens of the world’s major cities.

Rathayatra is now celebrated across India as well as in London, Paris, Moscow, Washington, D. C., New York, Los Angeles, Toronto, Durban, Sydney, and many other metropolises. Literally millions of people around the world attend ISKCON Rathayatras annually".

 

See the bigger picture of what is really going on here. I really believe a ‘photo’ being burned would NOT offend Prabhupada.

So can we understand what is really going on and see the bigger picture of the dawning of a Golden Age of Spirituality?

Technically the material body is controlled by the modes of nature, just as the puppet master controls a puppet.

Once we REALIZE it is just playing a role in Maha Vishnu's cosmic dream play, then we SEE the so called offence is just part of the LILA or 'PLAY' to make Prabhupada even more famous.

See the bigger picture of what is really going on here. I really believe a ‘photo’ being burned would NOT offend Prabhupada; in fact he would chuckle to himself and say

"AH, NOW WE HAVE GOT THEIR ATTENTION, NOW THEY ARE STARTING TO RECOGNISE US".

I base this assumption on an incident in Melbourne Australia when Prabhupada's life was threatened. As temple commander in 1976, PustaKrsna prabhu and myself told Prabhupada about the threat from a group of men in suites with guns from a Christian organization known as the Catholic Church. One of them known as Erikson, pointed a gun at me as I got out of a car, this was witnessed by Amogha dasa.

 

Prabhupada’s response –

Srila Prabhupada - "AH, NOW WE HAVE GOT THEIR ATTENTION, NOW THEY ARE STARTING TO RECOGNISE US".

The story of Jagai and Madhai is specifically about an offence to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offence

One day while Nityananda Prabhu was returning in the dark the two brothers accosted him. On learning His identity, Madhai became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot. When Jagai saw the blood flow from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother.

While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation, people ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident.

Hearing that the brothers had hurt Nityananda Prabhu, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them. He summoned His chakra, which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers. However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.

It seems none of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada because they must seek forgiveness themselves however, in Kali-yuga, these rules have also changed thanks to the causeless mercy of Lord Nityananda.

We must preach intelligently for Krishna.

Doing nothing about ISKCON’S founder's 'photo' being burned is not Prabhupada's way.

Why?

We can tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offences but we should NEVER tolerate our Spiritual Master being treated this way even if he does see the bigger picture of Lord Caitanya's Golden Age unfolding.

All Glorious to Srila Prabhupada, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

[krisvyas]

 

A similar question is who appointed the Puri priests as sole authorities on the date for Ratha Yatra? Why exactly do they celebrate on the dates they do? Is it just traditon or is there some actual spiritual reasoning behind their objections?

 

 

Another similar question is if the ISKON and Lord jagannath devotees follow same religious path... why the ratha yatra celeberation be on different dates

 

Another similar questions is : Different ISKON temples celeberate the rathayatra on different dates. Looks like another disagreement on the date. Perfect example for free will and free world

[Deathless]

 

Seriously try to think a little deeper. No one is talking about wardrobes or haircuts so why inject such a silly thing into the conversation? Everything is there in the narrative and the purports of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Daksha didn't attack Shiva for being a Vaishnava. He attacked him because he thought he wasn't good enough for his daughter. Sati still killed herself.

So, if someone wants to twist that story in such a way that it applies to all Vaishnavas, then that means that people must kill themselves even if the perceived "offense" has nothing to do with religion.

 

 

We can accept what he says and try to understand how to apply it in the context of todays society or not.

 

I don't see how encouraging an ancient feudal system and saying that people must kill themselves when hearing a Vaishnava insulted can logically apply to today's society.

 

 

BY the way I haven't worn a dhoti or had a shaved head since 1971. I look more like my avatar, my childhood guru, Alfred. Alfred once said to me, "Son if you want to keep your groove smooth then never talk bad story about the enlightened ones."

 

I wasn't talking about ISKCON members wearing dhotis and shaving their heads.

I meant more that a person with a bad hair cut and stupid clothes could be a Vaishnava, and is opening himself to insult by looking strange. He is inevitably going to be insulted. So, when he is insulted, should all the women, Vaishyas, and Shudras in his immediate vicinity kill themselves? According to Prabhupada, they should.

 

 

I have nothing to new to add.

 

Hare Krsna

Hare Ram.

[theist]

 

Daksha didn't attack Shiva for being a Vaishnava. He attacked him because he thought he wasn't good enough for his daughter. Sati still killed herself.

So, if someone wants to twist that story in such a way that it applies to all Vaishnavas, then that means that people must kill themselves even if the perceived "offense" has nothing to do with religion.

 

 

 

I don't see how encouraging an ancient feudal system and saying that people must kill themselves when hearing a Vaishnava insulted can logically apply to today's society.

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about ISKCON members wearing dhotis and shaving their heads.

I meant more that a person with a bad hair cut and stupid clothes could be a Vaishnava, and is opening himself to insult by looking strange. He is inevitably going to be insulted. So, when he is insulted, should all the women, Vaishyas, and Shudras in his immediate vicinity kill themselves? According to Prabhupada, they should.

 

 

Hare Ram.

 

Sorry to have to be so blunt but in the name of wanting to argue you reveal yourself as very slow minded.

 

The remedy wasn't for everyone to kill themselves. The alternative is to leave that place. As I suggested, boycott the Puri temple. These people are irrelevant.

 

No more discussion between you and me on this subject.

[o.s.subramanian]

In their jurisdiction, they can celebrate in the manner they like.

Uniformity cannot be achieved. In various temples, Brahmothsavam is celebrated on different dates. Otherwise, on a particular day, everything will be finished and the rest of the whole year will have to be idle !

Pragmatism is required. After all every body is praising the Lord only.

Tolerance is required . This is my humble opinion.

[theist]

 

In their jurisdiction, they can celebrate in the manner they like.

Uniformity cannot be achieved. In various temples, Brahmothsavam is celebrated on different dates. Otherwise, on a particular day, everything will be finished and the rest of the whole year will have to be idle !

Pragmatism is required. After all every body is praising the Lord only.

Tolerance is required . This is my humble opinion.

 

 

I like your humble opinion. Simple isn't it.

[Deathless]

 

Sorry to have to be so blunt but in the name of wanting to argue you reveal yourself as very slow minded.

Such humility must only exist among the saints!

 

The remedy wasn't for everyone to kill themselves. The alternative is to leave that place. As I suggested, boycott the Puri temple. These people are irrelevant.

Where did your guru say that? He said they had to kill themselves, not participate in some massive boycott or sit-in for civil rights.

[Xochitl]

 

Such humility must only exist among the saints!

 

Where did your guru say that? He said they had to kill themselves, not participate in some massive boycott or sit-in for civil rights.

Srila Prabhupada never encouraged suicide, he mentions this along with several other things that can not be performed in Kali-yuga due to the general degradation of society. In previous ages, suicide(as a last resort) was viewed as a respectable and honorable option under certain extreme circumstances(when all other methods fail). In Kali-yuga everything is backward, upside-down or inside-out... violence doesn't solve dilemmas, the demonic leaders just become more violent and continue destroying the earth. Demoniac people take birth in the higher castes or classes of men, yet despite their sinful attachments and unscruplous methods they maintain great merit in society. In Kali-yuga, no one is qualified to observe the strict rules of brahmacharya, therefore the sannyas vow is discouraged. Men are not allowed to take more than one wife or marry their sister-in-law in case of his brothers death(this was common in previous yugas)...and so on and so forth... the list is much too long...

There is just one point that I want to clarify: Srila Prabhupada was a great practical man, he didn't leave anything to chance, he got down to business and got things done. He wasn't a sentimentalist, never did he throw his arms up into the air and say, "OH, I give up". That is the kind of lazy mentality that everyone is associating with this topic, and that is not Srila Prabhupada's method and that is not the Hare Krishna method.

Besides... we're not a "cult" so poisoned Kool-aid just doesn't fit into our M.O.