Why do we need God?

[WhyGod]

Guys,

 

Give me some reasons. Why do we search for God?

 

I'm trying to understand ISKON for past few years but not convinced with the information I got.

 

I like to remove my ignorance by raising such questions. Help!!

[jeffster]

Why do we need God ? On a basic physical level of survival, God gives us sunlight, water, air and food grains without which we cannot survive. God is bhukta, the maintainer, man is bhakta, the maintained. Man is ever in the dependent position.

 

Why do we search for God ? "Athato brahma jijnasa" We search for God because only in this rare and valuable human form of life do we have the requisite intelligence to question our own existence and ask relevant questions like "Who am I ?,Who is God ?," and "What is my relationship with God ?" Just think about the fact that there are 6 billion humans on earth. That seems like a lot until we consider how many countless billions of insects, birds, fish and animals must inhabit the earth. Therefore, the human birth is truly rare and we should make the best use of our God-given intelligence and solve the issue of mortality.

 

Hope this helps.

jeffster/AMdas

[bhaktajan]

1) Why do we search for God?

 

We are not the material body, we are Spirit-Souls in the material world.

"God" is the supreme soul.

"God" is the Original Person [albeit transcendental, eternal & all cognizant].

 

 

In the material cosmos there are 8,400,000 speices of living creatures--all with a spirit soul inside them that animates them --their different bodies affords them the corresponding ego.

 

Each of these different bodies, that a soul takes up resisdence in --was earned via the works/acts/level of consciousness cultivated (ergo, Karmic-reaction) while in a previous (Human) birth.

 

Eternity has no element of passing TIME.

 

God's existance lends credence to the ideal of Democracy and liberty.

 

"Working hard for the money" --is the law of the jungle of beasts where the strong survive and the weak cultivate the yearning for higher purposes via their surjourn in the material world 'birth after birth' (samsara) --until they reconcile that, as a human, we are created in the image of God persona.

 

Returning home back to Godhead is the mystery of life.

 

Such, authentic, bonefide knowledge, as in the case of all schools of learning must be learnt directly from those in the line of the accepted standard. Real plumbers, doctors, lawyers, policemen are duly accredited by bonefide sources --just as ISKCON is.

 

To gain entry to exclusive places--one learns the ettiqutte & even the guest list of the VIPs.

 

One learns forbearence while within the material world--one may spend eons in the material world of samsara--yet upon return to the 'spiritual' realm the re-instatement of one's original spirituial identity is resumed --as if only a single fragmentary moment has transpired, since last time one had the personal association of God Face to Face along with his entourage and pastimes.

 

All the above can be contrasted with the generations of ancestor & strangers who have gone before us and see the existential futile notion that they endeavored to please only fleeting causes as selfish and petty. While grand civic duties preformed selflessly for others happiness has built a foundation for peaceful living --within the material world --only to fade away.

 

Intellectually the pursuit of "God's" definition stands above the passing epochs of history.

 

The Vedas state that society is now in the beginning of the era called KALI-yuga [the last of four ages] where things will be come more and more unhospitable.

 

The Vedas inform us of the means and manner of ancient history ruled by Maharaja schooled in brahminical disciplines, namely Yoga; and thus, ultimately "yogic-emanicipation".

 

Do you know what I mean by "yogic-emanicipation"?

If not, then that is why providence has provided for A.C. Bhaktivedanta's journey out of India to spread the fame of Krishna. Etc etc etc.

 

2) I'm trying to understand ISKON for past few years but not convinced --[this is a mysterious situation I not familiar with.

ISKCON is a place to study Bhakti-yoga disciplines.

What in God's Name have you been doing all those few "Years".

Have you any proclivity for yoga studies, or not?]

[WhyGod]

Thanks guys. I'll tell you my actual problem.

 

I read many 'books' on the popular religions in the world. I found one common principle behind that.

 

X% OF PHILOSOPHY AND Y% OF FAITH.

 

In the faith component, we just believe in something. It can be like chanting Hare Krishna, going to Church on Sunday or praying 5 times a day, sacrificing animals, killing humans etc etc etc..

 

There are infinite number of faiths in the world. There are few people who used to kill animals in the name of God. They are highly satisfied with that. It is their faith. We don't know which faith is good and which faith is bad. Because,

 

FAITH IS A FAITH. We blindly believe in it. We can't put any reasoning for it.

 

There is no way to find a better faith. We can't put ratings for that. The intellectual part ends here.

 

So, if someone tells me to chant Hare Krishna, from my point of view, it doesn't look any different from killing some animals in the name of God.

 

We used to quote scriptures for proof. But we know that there are hundreds of scriptures and we can't find a consistent teachings across all.

 

Don't tell me to pick a faith according to my condition. There are few people who misuse that 'faith' on God to kill people.

 

I started believing that 'Faith' component is misleading humans and it is not the right spiritual practice.

[jeffster]

We're not talking about faith here, we are attempting to discern the highest truth. To an atheist, his level of faith tells him that God does not exist. That is his belief system. Yet, if in fact God does exist, does the disbelief of the atheist in any way affect the reality that God exists ? Does God much care for the opinion of atheists ? No, and it would be ludicrous to think so. Therefore, reality transcends belief systems and faith, although, in fact, Reality cannot be approached without some degree of faith. But not blind faith, reasoned faith, faith that is questioned and proven and validated through one's own experience and the shared experience of others, also on the path of transcendence. Gita talks about the different levels of faith according to the modes of material nature that each person finds himself in, but the Truth transcends all the modes of nature. The Truth is spotless and pristine and is known as the all-good Supreme Absolute Truth Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna. Men in lower modes of nature worship the demigods or even sometimes ghosts and spirits. Fundamentalists, below even the level of neophyte religious practitioners with some level of genuine faith, are such demons that they even rationalize killing other people of other religions. My definition of a demon is that a demon, in order to further his own ends, does not care how much pain and suffering he inflicts on others. Demonism should NEVER be confused with genuine religious faith. Religious faith, by definition, must be compassionate and uplifting, not destructive. If the demonic sub-neophytes are so right on, why don't they preach by example and compassion rather than by wanton and indiscriminate slaughter ? They are so incredibly ignorant and indiscriminating that they even kill each other. In no manner do they have what could be called genuine religious faith. Yes, their "faith," as you call it, is simply misused, misconstrued, malicious, misguided, mistaken and illusory.

jeffster/AM das

[bhaktajan]

I agree with Jeffster's opening statement --actually this is also exactly what I wanted to say myself--but Jeffster said it first himself:

"We're not talking about faith here".

 

Actually I thought to say, and I'm saying it now:

 

'I am a Hare Krishna Devotee and I have NO faith.

My only faith is that I will continue to live and thus continue

on my way without 'sudden' unexpected annihilation

--the only thing in my life based of faith [inregards to religious belief]

is that God may still allow me a moment to remember him [make contrition]

if I should meet with 'sudden' unexpected annihilation--aka, Death . . .'

 

My study and observance of yoga principles are something that I experience as scientific.

The "Scientific-Method" is the means of replicating a result in a laboratory setting --such as, for example, a professional gourmet Kitchen, where the word "recipes" is used rather than "Calculated-Procedural-Formula".

 

By extention, for example, a seasoned carpenter will build a sturdy structure --this the carpenter does by following the standard methods --thus the carpenter obtains the expected results each time.

 

This is not Faith. The carpenter is "realized" in the skills of carpentry --fully aware of below par workmenship standards. Standards that keep the carpenter in business.

 

Yet the elements, other people & his own personal bodily upkeep --may cause him trouble --the only faith the carpenter may depend on is the innate qualities of the finished product to stay-put as constructed + that the raw materials may continue to be available in abundance.

 

This is the same for me --my so-called faith is actually [to my subjective satisfaction and also to my objective judgement] brings forth the results of my many years of practicing the craftsmanship of yoga.

 

Each day's headlines shows me the practical & scientific validity of my "seeing the world" through the eyes of sastra [scriptural Text].

 

The degree of vision that I have myself personally acquired "through the eyes of sastra" re-confirm the neccessity to 'keep my nose to the grindstone' of yogic principles.

 

Ironically, It may be that a "lack of faith" leads to anxiety that we are "without" faith [thus, "Dark nights of the soul"].

or

Ironically, It may be that an "abundance of Faith" creates familiarity which breeds contempt --a contempt that causes the faithfull to take things for granted, even to the point of neglecting good professional conduct and standards.

 

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Now I will finish reading Jeffster's above post

--please all of you wish me well lest I meet with

'sudden' unexpected annihilation and thus fail to

finish reading Jeffster's above post; Oye.

[jeffster]

Bhaktajan is perfectly correct in asserting that this process is spiritual science. In other words, it is a clearly delineated, systematic practice that has already been perfected and traversed by the predecessor acharyas. We don't have to speculate, we don't have to experiment, we simply have to follow it. We apply positive principles and refrain from negative principles. In practice that means following the four regulative principles of a.) no meat eating, including fish, poultry and eggs; b.) no gambling; c.) no illicit sex, meaning sex between married heterosexual partners and only for the purpose of procreation; and d.) no intoxication, including drugs, alcohol, tobacco, tea or coffee. Now the best part is the practice of the positive principle - the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. It does take some shraddha, or faith to begin the process, as the process won't work if we don't practice it !! B.R. Sridhara Swami defined faith as trust in something sublime. I have not found anywhere a more sublime personality than that of Lord Krishna. Especially now, nearly everyone is enamored of the incredible things that can be done with electronic gadgetry. But just see the incredible potency of this sublime Personality - He can even expand Himself unlimitedly into the hearts of everyone of us as Paramatma ! And He holds each planet in perfect orbit effortlessly. This can be said of no one else. So I urge everyone to take to this process, and as my Gurudev, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad said many times, "Your life will be sublime !"

jeffster/AMD

[jeffster]

Hello again, Why God. Are these posts helping clarify anything for you or is this just adding to the confusion ?

Bhaktajan also brings up a nice point about the "craftsmanship of yoga." This is truly spiritual craftsmanship and I urge you to take it up in earnest, not just wonder what it is like from an intellectual perspective. Dive in and submerge yourself in the ocean of bliss ! Sometimes, online, when there is no feedback, I feel like I'm in a vacuum, but I can't tell whether its a Hoover or a Eureka.

jeffster/AM das

[jeffster]

I apologize. I do so love to pontificate, but perhaps I should stop. After all,

I'm not the pope !!

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

Feels like a vacuum in this thread.

jeffster/AMd