durga is more of vishnu-shakti than shiva -shakti

[melvin]

 

How does mr melvin know sant is a kid.

Even sant doesnt know that.

 

Just as I know that Krsna is just a Boy.

[sant]

 

Just as I know that Krsna is just a Boy.

 

Krisna is also a man.

[melvin]

 

Krisna is also a man.

 

Then act like a man and whip Sambya with some tongue lashing.

[sant]

 

Then act like a man and whip Sambya with some tongue lashing

I dont know the meaning of lashing.

I dont get what you mean.

 

 

\

[sambya]

 

You know how untruthful those things are.

 

no i dont ! its all in shastras , why should it be untruthfull ?!

 

 

but tantra calls for artificial methodes to raise it.

 

actually there are two methods of raising kundalini - either by yoga or by ordinary bhakti . both are correct and accepted . things become bad when any persons misutilises the paranormal powers that he gets by raising it .

 

 

 

Again thats my point.Ypu always start comparing with iskcon or vaishnav gurus.

 

why should that hurt you ? it only shows that they are indispensible in modern spiritual world !! ha ha

 

 

You stop saying sahjiya vaihnavism is vaihnavism.

i didnt say its vaishnisvm . i said its corrupted version of vaishnivism just like vamarga is the corrupted version of tantricism .

 

 

And by expericnce i meant experience in sprituality and in realisation and in god.

 

good .................. but how does a lay man like me determine who has experience in spirituality ?

[sant]

 

no i dont ! its all in shastras , why should it be untruthfull ?!

 

 

which shatra?

Laxmi sarswati is prayed to but not one place it mentions that demigods serves her feet.Except the devi bhagwat one sotry which you agreed it is false.

 

 

actually there are two methods of raising kundalini - either by yoga or by ordinary bhakti . both are correct and accepted . things become bad when any persons misutilises the paranormal powers that he gets by raising it .

 

 

You still dont get it.What will raisng kundalini help you if there is no realisation and you forcefully rise the kundalini .

Raisng kundalini doesnt mean realisation.

Ordinary bhakti raises kundalini, does it?

Bhakti is ordinary.See your physche.

This is why i said that iskcon classes went out off your ears.

That is why i said bhakti to a demigod and to krishna is different.

 

 

 

i didnt say its vaishnisvm . i said its corrupted version of vaishnivism just like vamarga is the corrupted version of tantricism .

 

Again.You dont want to beleive then youre wish.

I can see youre avoiding this argument as always.

What you beleive may not be right.

Vaman marg is an essential part of tantrism.

Why dont you ask the tantrics.

 

 

 

good .................. but how does a lay man like me determine who has experience in spirituality ?

 

 

I dont know.How did you decide then that iskcon philosophies are inferior to ramakrishna or something like that.

How did you explain all those things to me in our discussions.

How did you in your way intepret and teach me how to Accept mahaprabhus philosophy And call it situational.

[sambya]

 

Raisng kundalini doesnt mean realisation.

Ordinary bhakti raises kundalini, does it?

Bhakti is ordinary.See your physche.

both are directly related . theres no realisation without a raised kundalini and kundalini doesnt rise without realization .

 

i didnt use the wrod ordinary to show bhakti as something inferior . being a bhakti practioner myself i would like to believe just the opposite . i used 'ordinary' in the sense of 'more common and easy' than the complex yogic procedures .

 

 

This is why i said that iskcon classes went out off your ears.

you're right ! perhaps i already knew a little bit about hinduism for them to pass of their restructered cult as 'authentic vedic discipline'

, unlike the many unfortunate brainwashed fellows who came in blank and went out as hare krishna fanatics cursing the same gods that they have been taught to pray to by their forefathers since childhood !!!

 

 

 

 

How did you decide then that iskcon philosophies are inferior to ramakrishna or something like that.

i never compared the two or made any one of them superior . i merely point out the places in their(iskcon) philosophy which has flaws(as per my opinion) and criticise them when they criticise others .

 

how can i put one above the other ?

 

its obvious that i would love my faith most but at the same time i am fully aware that there might me many people out there who actually sees many fauts in the philosophy that i follow .

[sant]

 

both are directly related . theres no realisation without a raised kundalini and kundalini doesnt rise without realization

No its not like that.Just go through some peoples posts over here in this forum youll know why.Anyway dont you know that kundalini can be raised with siddha drugs also.SO it does ito necessarily mean it is same as realisation.

 

 

you're right ! perhaps i already knew a little bit about hinduism for them to pass of their restructered cult as 'authentic vedic discipline'

, unlike the many unfortunate brainwashed fellows who came in blank and went out as hare krishna fanatics cursing the same gods that they have been taught to pray to by their forefathers since childhood !!!

 

 

Hare krishna's dont teach hinduismm.Srila bhaktivedanta had explained it taht he was not preaching hinduism.Do you want me to quote him.

[sambya]

 

Hare krishna's dont teach hinduismm.Srila bhaktivedanta had explained it taht he was not preaching hinduism.Do you want me to quote him.

 

vedic religion was not vaishnavism !!

[sant]

 

vedic religion was not vaishnavism !!

 

 

What was it?

[sambya]

 

What was it?

 

vedic religion of course !!

 

instead of asking me register yourself in some reputed library and find out what it was !!

[sant]

 

vedic religion of course !!

 

instead of asking me register yourself in some reputed library and find out what it was !!

 

 

MAdhwacharya was a vaishnav and they do vedic yajnas etc,SO do you beleive that to be vedik.

[hindustani]

Maya at its best in this thread,carry on chaps!

[anandagiri]

What I See Here Is A Lot Of Confusion. Stop Dogmatically Using Academic Crutches! If You Really Have Something Inside Besides A Bunch Of Clever Thoughts And Ideas, There Should Be No Problems Here At All! It Should Never Be A Question Of Vishnu Or Siva! First: Academically, Vishnu Should Not Be Confused With Mahavishnu! Second: Siva Is Not Siva Here. The Story Stuff Related To Siva, In Reality, Is A Customary Way Of Dealing With Rudra. Trimurti, That Is To Say, Is Brahmaa, Vishnu And Rudra. First Of All, Preliminary For The Harikrishnas In The Audience: Get Real! The Simple Definition Of Brahman Is Simply That Beyond Which Nothing Can Exist, By Definition! Brahman Is "god" Beyond The Context Of The Possibility Of The Existence Of A Creation. Siva Is Brahman Within The Context Of The Possibility Of The Existence Of A Creation - But There Still Is No Creation. That Is Why His "consort" Is Uma Here. Ishwara Is Brahman Within Context Of The Existence Of A Creation, Although Totally Transcendental With Respect To That Creation, Of Course. His "consort" Is Merely The Feminine Form Of "himself": Ishwari. Durga Means "the Inaccessible" For Good Reasons! She Is The Inaccessible Made Accessible. It Makes Sense When One Understands The True Nature Of Creation Itself. That Cannot Be Gone Into At This Moment, Though Essentially It Is Very Simple. Durga Is A Manifestation Of Ishwari Within The Creation. And Ishwari, Beyond Habits Of Custom, Is - As Brahman - Neither Saiva Nor Vaishnava. She Is Brahman! It Can´t Happen? Of Course It Can´t! But, When You Come Right Down To It, In Terms Of Our Normal Human Possibilities, The Creation Can´t Happen Either! The Thing Is That, As I Said, The Creation Is Not What People Think It Is. And Don´t Give Me A Bunch Of That Popularized Neo-advaita Crap On This Either! People Have Confused Adi-sankara A Whole Lot! And Ramana Maharishi Also....who Was A Great Saint, But Not Totally Jivan-mukta. And Forget That Very Sincere But Confused, Because Limited Without Posibilities For The Moment, That Guinea Pig, Krishnamurti. He Was Very Sincere, But He Did Untold Damage To Many People!.....besides The Good That He Did Do In Making A Lot Of Them At Least Wake Up A Bit. Agb

[anandagiri]

IT IS SO NICE AND COZY TO JUST "BELIEVE" IN JESUS OR BUDDHA OR SIVA OR KRISHNA, DO YOUR RITUALS AND HAVE FAITH THAT YOUR SINCERITY WILL MAGICAL TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN OR WAKEN YOUR KOOOOONDALINI! THEN YOU HAVE IT MADE. GROW UP! THE BEST IS NOT SO "CHEAP"........AND YET IT SHOULD BE....IF YOU REALLY KNEW WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT! BUT YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT! WELL, MAYBE IN A COUPLE MORE INCARNATIONS............AND WHERE IN GOD´S NAME DID YOU DIG UP THAT CRAP ABOUT TANTRA BEING ARTIFICIAL? OR THE LEFT HAND PATH BEING A CORRUPTION? IT IS ALL PART OF THE REALITY! THE MAYA COVERED ATMAN (FOR THE MOMENT!) DECIDES WHAT IT WANTS.....AND THAT MAY INVOLVE WISE CHOICES OR INCONVENIENT ONES......LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE, GUYS!!!! WAKE UP! TANTRA IS THE OLD VEDIC WAY OF REFERRING TO THE AGAMAS........AND AGAMA MEANS "THE BEGINNING OF IT ALL"..........THE OLDEST, DEEPEST AND MOST POTENT PARTS OF YOGIC SCIENCE. YOU CHOOSE, AND YOU GETS WHAT YOU CHOOSES! AS ALWAYS! A SINCERE DEDICATION TO STUDY THE MOST ANCIENT SCRIPTURES ALWAYS ENDS UP WITH SUFFICIENT TRUTH TO THE COURAGEOUS TO GAIN THE SAME RESULTS AS USUAL: SPIRITUAL REALIZATION, GRADUALLY AND MORE AND MORE. THIS IS THE WAY TO LEARN DISCRIMINATION IF YOU ARE NOT TOO EMOTIONALLY INSECURE TO DO SO, WITHOUT CRUTCHES. NOTHING IS ARTIFICIAL AND EVERYTHING IS ARTIFICIAL, DEPENDING ON ONE´S LEVEL OF SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION....ARE YOU AUTHENTICALLY DIVYA BHAVA OR VIRA BHAVA OR.....PASHU BHAVA? BUT AT LEAST LEARN TO BE HONEST AND ADULT! AGB

 

 

both are directly related . theres no realisation without a raised kundalini and kundalini doesnt rise without realization .

 

i didnt use the wrod ordinary to show bhakti as something inferior . being a bhakti practioner myself i would like to believe just the opposite . i used 'ordinary' in the sense of 'more common and easy' than the complex yogic procedures .

 

 

you're right ! perhaps i already knew a little bit about hinduism for them to pass of their restructered cult as 'authentic vedic discipline'

, unlike the many unfortunate brainwashed fellows who came in blank and went out as hare krishna fanatics cursing the same gods that they have been taught to pray to by their forefathers since childhood !!!

 

 

 

i never compared the two or made any one of them superior . i merely point out the places in their(iskcon) philosophy which has flaws(as per my opinion) and criticise them when they criticise others .

 

how can i put one above the other ?

 

its obvious that i would love my faith most but at the same time i am fully aware that there might me many people out there who actually sees many fauts in the philosophy that i follow .

[anandagiri]

AGAIN: MICKEY MOUSE INVADES! BLACK AND WHITE......REALIZATION YES OR REALIZATION NO......KUNDALINI YES OR KUNDALINI NO. TODAY YOU ARE 3 FOOT NOTHING KID AND TOMORROW YOU ARE SIX FOOT NOTHING WISE MAN. SURE! THERE IS NO GROWTH PROCESS? NO INTERMEDIARY STAGES OR CONDITIONS? COME ON ALREADY! KUNDALINI IS MERELY A MECHANISM IN A NATURAL PROCESS. IT ALWAYS OCCURS UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES - WHETHER IT IS WELL AND CONSCIOUSLY PERCEIVED AS SUCH OR NOT. IT CAN PRODUCE SPIRITUAL REALIZATION IF THE PREVIOUS PREPARATION WAS ADEQUATE........AND IT CAN BE LITTLE MORE THAN A "ONE NIGHT STAND" IN THE END. AS WELL, IT CAN PRODUCE CERTAIN PROBLEMS. IT ALL DEPENDS UPON YOUR PREPARATION AND THE NATURAL INCLINATION OF YOUR MIND AND HEART. YEP, YOU HEARD RIGHT: I DID INCLUDE HEART. BUT THAT DOES MEAN WE ARE BACK TO THE OLD TIME RELIGION AND MERELY "GETTING SAVED" IN ONE SENSE OR ANOTHER......TRUE BHAKTI OR TRUE LOVE CAN, OF COURSE, BRING SPIRITUAL REALIZATION -- WHICH WILL HAVE INVOLVED KUNDALINI ACTIVITY. BUT FEW REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS AND INVOLVES! IT IS NOT THE EASIEST AND SIMPLEST PATH AT ALL! IT IS THE MOST DIFFICULT AND DANGEROUS.....THAT IS WHY THERE EXISTED LOVELY PICNICS LIKE THE SPANISH INQUISITION, POGROMS, CRUSADES AND SO ON......AND IN A LESSER WAY AS SEEN IN SOME OF THE EARLIER CONTRIBUTIONS I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT. LORDY LORDY! GROW UP, KIDS, THERE IS A WONDERFUL WORLD OF DIVINE JOY AWAITING PEOPLE WHO CAN THROW AWAY THEIR CRUTCHES AND THEIR MOMMY´S BREAST MILK. AND THAT WAS THE WAY VASISHTHA TAUGHT IT, AND PATANJALI AND THE SHANKARACHARYA OF KANCHIPURAM ALSO. THE GOAL DOES EXIST......AND IT IS DO-ABLE......BUT YOU GOTTA GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! AGB

 

 

 

IT IS SO NICE AND COZY TO JUST "BELIEVE" IN JESUS OR BUDDHA OR SIVA OR KRISHNA, DO YOUR RITUALS AND HAVE FAITH THAT YOUR SINCERITY WILL MAGICAL TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN OR WAKEN YOUR KOOOOONDALINI! THEN YOU HAVE IT MADE. GROW UP! THE BEST IS NOT SO "CHEAP"........AND YET IT SHOULD BE....IF YOU REALLY KNEW WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT! BUT YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT! WELL, MAYBE IN A COUPLE MORE INCARNATIONS............AND WHERE IN GOD´S NAME DID YOU DIG UP THAT CRAP ABOUT TANTRA BEING ARTIFICIAL? OR THE LEFT HAND PATH BEING A CORRUPTION? IT IS ALL PART OF THE REALITY! THE MAYA COVERED ATMAN (FOR THE MOMENT!) DECIDES WHAT IT WANTS.....AND THAT MAY INVOLVE WISE CHOICES OR INCONVENIENT ONES......LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE, GUYS!!!! WAKE UP! TANTRA IS THE OLD VEDIC WAY OF REFERRING TO THE AGAMAS........AND AGAMA MEANS "THE BEGINNING OF IT ALL"..........THE OLDEST, DEEPEST AND MOST POTENT PARTS OF YOGIC SCIENCE. YOU CHOOSE, AND YOU GETS WHAT YOU CHOOSES! AS ALWAYS! A SINCERE DEDICATION TO STUDY THE MOST ANCIENT SCRIPTURES ALWAYS ENDS UP WITH SUFFICIENT TRUTH TO THE COURAGEOUS TO GAIN THE SAME RESULTS AS USUAL: SPIRITUAL REALIZATION, GRADUALLY AND MORE AND MORE. THIS IS THE WAY TO LEARN DISCRIMINATION IF YOU ARE NOT TOO EMOTIONALLY INSECURE TO DO SO, WITHOUT CRUTCHES. NOTHING IS ARTIFICIAL AND EVERYTHING IS ARTIFICIAL, DEPENDING ON ONE´S LEVEL OF SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION....ARE YOU AUTHENTICALLY DIVYA BHAVA OR VIRA BHAVA OR.....PASHU BHAVA? BUT AT LEAST LEARN TO BE HONEST AND ADULT! AGB

[melvin]

Yes. We are still kids. It`s because we still want to play with Govinda in the forest of Vrndavan. We love riding on the backs of surabhi bulls with Govinda at the front. We even hid in the bushes, as He stole the garments of the gopis of Vraja while they were bathing in the river. Yes! We`re just kids alright! Because of envy, even Lord Brahma kidnapped some of us so Govinda wont have play mates to enjoy.