Krishna is expanding in two ways there is no third catorgory of souls

[Svarupa]

What is the jiva's relation to hladhini shakti, to Radha and the gopies? Krishna is expanding in two ways there is no third catorgory of souls

 

The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini Shakti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini Shakti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini Shakti is not possible

 

Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third catorgory of souls

Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968

In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini Shakti.”

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Without Radha, there is no meaning to Krishna, and without Krishna there is no meaning to Radha”

 

Srila Prabhupada - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968

Srila Prabhupada - ‘“Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini Shakti"

There are also many many expansions of Radharani also in the catorgory of hladhini Shakti however they are not jiva tattva they are Vishnu tattva.

The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini Shakti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini Shakti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini Shakti is not possible

Prabhupada taught from the very beginning and always re-emphasized—that just as we have a desire to love and have pleasure, so that desire exists in the Supreme Person, Krishna. But when He wants to desire, He doesn’t desire pleasure from an ordinary person. He expands into the pleasure potency and that is Radharani.

So actually Radharani is not different from Krishna. As Prabhupada puts it in the introduction to Teachings of Lord Caitanya, “Without Radha, there is no meaning to Krishna, and without Krishna there is no meaning to Radha. Because of this, the Vaisnava philosophy first of all pays obeisance’s to and worships the internal pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Lord and His potency are always referred to as Radha Krishna.”

In that ‘69 Radhastami lecture Prabhupada began to sing the mantra, “Tapta kancana gaurangi radhe vrndavanesvari” He also mentioned that we should approach Radharani and then we can get Krishna’s favour.

“If we approach Krishna through Radharani, through Her mercy, then it become very easy. If Radharani recommend, “This devotee is very nice” then Krishna immediately accepts, however a fool I may be. Because Radharani recommends it, Krishna accepts.

 

Therefore in Vrndavana you will find all the devotees, they are chanting more Radha’s name than Krishna’s. Wherever you go, you will find the devotees are addressing “Jaya Radhe”.

 

You still will find in Vrndavana. They are glorifying Radharani. They are more interested in worshipping Radharani. Because however fallen I may be, if somewhere or another I can please Radharani then it’s very easy for me to understand Krishna.”

Prabhupada criticized people who didn’t understand Radharani even if they did live in Vrndavana. But somehow he was favourably moved by the simple chanting of Radhe Radhe even by seemingly ordinary people in Vrndavana.

 

I (Satsvarupa Maharaj) remember going on many morning walks with Prabhupada on Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga and sometimes rikshaw wallas would stop their rikshaw, get down, take off their shoes, make obeisance’s, and say “Jaya Radhe”.

 

In his lectures in other parts of the world Prabhupada would talk about it. And through Prabhupada’s eyes we Western disciples come to think that this was the essence of Vrndavana where even ordinary people chant Jaya Radhe. Nowhere else in the whole world, even in India, do you find that. So even if their chanting is not with full understanding Prabhupada liked it.

Another indication of Prabhupada’s deep affection for Srimati Radharani was that he would always begin his lecture by singing “Jaya Radha Madhava”. We don’t find that other Gaudiya Vaishnavas begin their lectures by singing this song as a regulative principle. But Prabhupada always did it and sometimes he would fall into deep ecstasies and not be able to speak.

We also know that Prabhupada’s father prayed that he could please become a devotee of Srimati Radharani.

Also, when Prabhupada was on the boat to America he wrote a poem in which he said, “My dear brothers, you cannot get success in Krishna consciousness unless you worship Srimati Radharani.”

Another important point is that as Radharani worshipped Krishna in the mood of separation, after Krishna left Vrndavana, so Lord Caitanya was in this mood. And the six Gosvamis took up Lord Caitanya’s demonstration of separation. Prabhupada indicates that all sincere and serious devotees in this line should also take this up. There are a few examples of his saying that.

Here is one from the 1969 Radhastami lecture. Prabhupada quoted “He radhe vrajadevike ca lalite, he nanda suno kutah”.

“Where, Radharani, where are You? Where are Your associates? Where are You, Nanda Suno, the son of Nanda Maharaja, Krishna? Where are you all? They were searching after. They never said, “I have seen Krishna dancing with the gopis. Last night I saw.” This is sahajiya.

 

They take everything very cheap. They take Krishna very cheap and Radharani very cheap as if they can see every night. No. The gosvamis don’t teach us like that. They are searching after.

 

“So we have to follow the footprints of the Gosvamis how to search out Krishna and Radharani. (We may do this in Vrndavana) or within our heart....This process of devotional service is taught by Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Don’t say that very easily we have seen Krishna or seen Radharani in Rasa Lila. No not like that. Feel the separation. The more you feel separation from Krishna you should understand that you are advancing.”

Prabhupada told us, If you engage your tongue in the service of the Lord He will reveal Himself to you, “Here I am.” We should feel separation of Krishna just like Radharani, as Lord Caitanya teaches, and engage our tongues in the service of the Lord, then one day when we are mature we will see Krishna eye to eye.

This same point is described in Antya Lila Chapter 14 of Caitanya-caritamrta. Krishna dasa Kaviraja tells us that Radharani’s emotions after seeing Uddhava exactly corresponded to those of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Then in the purport Prabhupada says that some theosophists declare, “because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, such cultivation of separation is easy for Him but difficult for the living entity. And so we can approach Krishna in any way we like.

 

To nullify this idea, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu demonstrated practically how one can achieve love of Krishna by adopting Srimati Radharani’s mood in separation from Krishna.” (Antya lila 14 14)

Although these confidential matters are not to be cheaply taken up, yet such an esoteric doctrine as separation from Krishna in the mood of Radharani, is something Prabhupada recommends.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu lamented, “I found Krishna in Vrndavana, and now I have again lost Him and come to Kuruksetra. Unless one is a very highly advanced devotee, he cannot understand these intricate feelings. The author of Caitanya-caritamrta, however, has tried to explain this divyon mada as far as possible, and it is our duty simply to appreciate it as far as possible.

 

Therefore the author has made the following request, “My dear readers, simply try to hear this description with faith and love. That will help you to understand transcendental ecstasy and at last you will achieve love of God very easily.” (Antya 14.37 purport)

In the Krishna Book Prabhupada also recommend to all devotees the mood of Radharani in separation. He says that the six Gosvamis were in this mood and so was Lord Caitanya.

“He was in the role of Radharani, feeling separation of Krishna. Those who are in the disciplic succession of Madhva Gaudiya sampradaya should also feel the separation of Krishna, worshipping His transcendental form and discussing His transcendental teachings, His pastimes, His qualities entourage and association.

 

The spiritual masters should enrich the devotees to the highest devotional perfection. Feeling constant separation while engaged in the service of the Lord is the perfection of Krishna consciousness.” (Krishna Book, Chapter 34)

There are just two more short quotes that I have chosen because of Prabhupada’s personal use of words in describing Radharani. This give us another glimpse into the fact that although he didn’t indulge in talking so much about Radharani, his feelings are very great within.

One statement occurs in the first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam where he is discussing the feelings of separation felt by the members of the Yadu dynasty for Krishna:

“The feelings of separation cannot be described, but it can simply be imagined by devotees only. After His separation from Vrndavana and the innocent rural cowherd boys, girls, ladies and others, hey all felt shock through their lives, and the separation of Radharani, the most beloved cowherd girl, is beyond expression.

 

Once they met at Kuruksetra during a solar eclipse, and the feeling which was expressed by them is heart rending.” (SB 1.10. verses 9 & 10 purport)

A final quote is from Caitanya-caritamrta about the Supreme position of Radharani even in relationship to Krishna. This is spoken by Lord Caitanya while dancing at the Ratha Yatra and speaking about Radha and Krishna:

Sri Krishna continued, all the inhabitants of Vrndavana dhama—my mother, father, cowherd boyfriends and everything else—are like my life and soul. And among all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis are my very life and soul. Among the gopis, You Srimati Radharani, are the chief. Therefore you are the very life of My life.

In the purport Prabhupada says:

Srimati Radharani is the center of all Vrndavana’s activities. In Vrndavana, Krishna is the instrument of Srimati Radharani; therefore all the inhabitants of Vrndavana still chant “Jaya Radhe”.

 

From Krishna’s own statement given herein, it appears that Radharani is the Queen of Vrndavana and that Krishna is simply Her decoration. Krishna is known as Madana Mohana, the enchanter of Cupid, but Srimati Radharani is the enchanter of Krishna. (Madhya lila 13.150 verse and purport)

 

So we like to hear of Srimati Radharani from Srila Prabhupada. It is the safe and most expert way. Because, as Srila Prabhupada writes, “The spiritual master is always considered one of the confidential associates of Srimati Radharani or a manifested representative of Sri Nityananda prabhu.” (CC Adi 1.46)

note, some reseach here is from Satsvarupa Maharaj

[Sarva gattah]

 

Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third catorgory of souls

Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968

 

In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani IS the pleasure potency, hladhini Shakti.”

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Without Radha, there is no meaning to Krishna, and without Krishna there is no meaning to Radha”

 

In understanding hladhini Shakti, it is important to understand the above. Also there are very special jiva-tattvas (Gopis) who who take shelter of Srimati Radharani however, even though it may appear they are in an exaulted catorgory of their own and NEVER fall down like the many Vishnu tattva Gopis, they are always jiva tattva (refere to the example of the Pancha tattva) Some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - period.

 

There are very special jiva-tattvas (Gopis) who who take shelter of Srimati Radharani however, even though it may appear they are in an exaulted catorgory of their own and NEVER fall down even though that choice is theres due to being marginal, they always remain jiva tattva, marginal or the tatastha shakti of the Lord also even though they are under the shelter of the hladhini Shakti

[bhaktajan]

Most excellent excellent post.

You did it Svarupa:

 

"Krishna is expanding in two ways there is no third catorgory of souls."

 

This statement alone encapsulises the Mono-theist conception [with all other tattvas accounted for also].

 

this is great scholarly detective work.

 

 

 

Maybe it's too advanced for posting, though.

 

yours truely,

Bhaktajan

 

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I suggest that the moderator delete this entire thread --inorder to keep it away from less enquiring/dedicated minds . . .

 

HEY YOU ALL!

DON'T READ SVARUPA'S POST ---IF YOU DO, DON'T READ IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

 

Do not copy and save and read on your commute from and to your job.

 

This is too elevated.

Read only if you are seeking the absolute truth on the highest esoteric level of transcendental mellows and sublime enlightenment of the highest order.

 

Beware of ecstatic rasas.

 

Godspeed,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: Don't tell me I didn't give you fair warning.

[bija]

 

In understanding hladhini Shakti, it is important to understand the above. Also there are very special jiva-tattvas (Gopis) who who take shelter of Srimati Radharani however, even though it may appear they are in an exaulted catorgory of their own and NEVER fall down like the many Vishnu tattva Gopis, they are always jiva tattva (refere to the example of the Pancha tattva) Some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - period. posted by sarva

Very well done Sarva!

 

I have some questions (more)...

 

 

Some Gopis are Vishnu tattva...

 

Are they? You have quoted Prabhupada to justify your argument>>>

 

 

Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968

 

 

Are Gopies Svamsa or Vibhinamsa (extension)? .....

 

Or are they instead 'the internal bliss/spiritual potency expansions of Radha who is the internal of Krsna...not seperated Visnu forms (or jiva)? The internal is hladhini....all expansions have potential to take shelter internally of that bliss. That bliss is transformative for the surrendered jiva. Remember Sankaracraya does not accept transformation of energy (for that would mean personality exists within the diverse energy). Lord Narayana's internal shakti is Laksmi devi etc.

 

If you could get some Prabhupada quotes or Bhaktivinoda quotes from your Vedabase, it would be appreciated.

 

The diverse energies of God and the unity is really inconceivable without guidance.

 

We (nitya-baddha) jivas are awaiting the supreme transformation (through shelter of hladhini)...then one never falls again, as promised in the Gita. That is our destiny as followers of Srimate Radharani.

 

The nitya-siddha jiva personalities are eternally transformed (nitya)...they never fell. As you say, there is no time in the kingdom of vaikuntha.

 

Thx Sarva.

[bija]

We must remember that Cit (spiritual energy) is one and full of diversity and transformation. This is what Caitanya taught, acintya bhedabheda tattva.

 

The jiva is complete being a part of the complete whole, therefore potent, therefore able to transform (in vedanta sutra it says the liberated jiva can choose to have a spiritual form or not have - not spiritual form means either material (realm of devas) form or impersonal merging). Once fully liberated by hladhini potencies grace the jiva then begins to transform in ever-new love of God in bliss. Not material or not heavenly planet. Love has no end or limit - the supreme liberation.

 

We (the jiva) then no longer identify with material form, but instead we identify with spiritual forms (nitya siddhas). The siddha deha, which has always been in seed form, bhakti bija. That is the real transformation which is able to manifest spiritual form - bhakti. We can practice raganuga bhakti this life, then next birth associate in Gokula in another universe...then home (Goloka). This is confirmed in CC purports by Bhaktisiddhanta and Prabhupada.