Does time exist in the Spititual World?

[bija]

 

Combine this idea with the concept of the Akashic Record, that all previous, present and future thoughts within consciousness therefore exist or "are simultaneously present in a 4 dimensional space without time" and can therefore be accessed by those who either have the power or are receptive like mystic yogis and now you really have something close to or even identical with brahman realization. by beggar

Indeed, all this is the expanding and evolving noosphere of love...

 

The word noosphere really hits the right harmony lately:).

[theist]

 

So His body in Vaikuntha has a placewhrere it begins at His feet and ends at His head. The Vaikuntha groundwhich is below his feet may be divine but it is not personallyNarayana. So this is the next duality.

 

I see this as a projection from your mind which is still conditioned onto the nature of transcendence. You will see in your statement the conditioned idea of spactial limitations.

 

The conditioned mind MUST interject it's itself onto any consideration of the absolute using what we have learned (or think we have) of the Lord's lila. This is problematic.

[primate]

 

Indeed, all this is the expanding and evolving noosphere of love...

 

The word noosphere really hits the right harmony lately:).

I had to look it up :

 

Noosphere literally means: 'the sphere of thought'. In the original theory of Vladimir Vernadsky, the noosphere is the third in a succession of phases of development of the Earth, after the geosphere (inanimate matter) and the biosphere (biological life). Just as the emergence of life fundamentally transformed the geosphere, the emergence of human cognition fundamentally transforms the biosphere. In contrast to the conceptions of the Gaia theorists, or the promoters of cyberspace, Vernadsky's noosphere emerges at the point where humankind, through the mastery of nuclear processes, begins to create resources through the transmutation of elements.

 

For French Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin , the noosphere is best described as a sort of 'collective consciousness' of human-beings. It emerges from the interaction of human minds as growing awareness and the evolution of consciousness towards the Omega Point: a maximum level of complexity and consciousness into which the universe appears to be evolving.

 

In his controversial 1994 book The Physics of Immortality,Frank Jennings Tipler III expands Teilhard's notion of the Omega Point. He claims to provide a mechanism for immortality and the resurrection of the dead consistent with the known laws of physics, in the form of a computer intelligence which he terms the Omega Point and which he identifies with God. The line of argument is that the evolution of intelligent species will enable scientific progress to grow exponentially, eventually enabling control over the universe even on the largest possible scale. Tipler predicts that this process will culminate with an all-powerful intelligence whose computing speed and information storage will grow exponentially at a rate exceeding the collapse of the universe, thus providing infinite "experiential time" which will be used to run computer simulations of all intelligent life that has ever lived in the history of our universe. This virtual reality emulation is what Tipler means by "the resurrection of the dead." In more recent works, Tipler says that the existence of the Omega Point is required to avoid the violation of the known laws of physics.

 

One of the original aspects of the noosphere concept deals with evolution. Henri Bergson (1907) was one of the first to propose that evolution is 'creative' and cannot necessarily be explained solely by Darwinian natural selection. L'évolution créatrice is upheld, according to Bergson, by a constant vital force that animates life and fundamentally connects mind and body, an idea opposing the dualism of René Descartes. In 1923, C. Lloyd Morgan took this work further, elaborating on an 'emergent evolution' that could explain increasing complexity (including the evolution of mind). Morgan found that many of the most interesting changes in living things have been largely discontinuous with past evolution, and therefore did not necessarily take place through a gradual process of natural selection. Rather, evolution experiences jumps in complexity (such as the emergence of a self-reflective universe, or noosphere). Finally, the complexification of human cultures, particularly language, facilitated a quickening of evolution in which cultural evolution occurs more rapidly than biological evolution. Recent understanding of human ecosystems and of human impact on the biosphere have led to a link between the notion of sustainability with the "co-evolution" and harmonization of cultural and biological evolution. The resulting political system has been referred to as a noocracy.

 

(from Wikipedia)

[Beggar]

 

I see this as a projection from your mind which is still conditioned onto the nature of transcendence. .

I see this as a projection from your mind:

[Sonic Yogi]

Spiritual time is unlimited. Material time is limited. Even spiritual time is unlimited amount of time and has no end, here is an idea of material time in relationship to spiritual time.

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.11.38

 

kālo 'yaḿ dvi-parārdhākhyo

 

nimeṣa upacaryate

 

avyākṛtasyānantasya

 

hy anāder jagad-ātmanaḥ

 

SYNONYMS

 

kālaḥ — eternal time; ayam — this (as measured by Brahmā's duration of life); dvi-parārdha-ākhyaḥ — measured by the two halves of Brahmā's life; nimeṣaḥ — less than a second; upacaryate — is so measured; avyākṛtasya — of one who is unchanged; anantasya — of the unlimited; hi — certainly; anādeḥ — of the beginningless; jagat-ātmanaḥ — of the soul of the universe.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The duration of the two parts of Brahmā's life, as above mentioned, is calculated to be equal to one nimeṣa [less than a second] for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is unchanging and unlimited and is the cause of all causes of the universe.

 

PURPORT

 

The great sage Maitreya has given a considerable description of the time of different dimensions, beginning from the atom up to the duration of the life of Brahmā. Now he attempts to give some idea of the time of the unlimited Personality of Godhead. He just gives a hint of His unlimited time by the standard of the life of Brahmā. The entire duration of the life of Brahmā is calculated to be less than a second of the Lord's time, and it is explained in the Brahma-saḿhitā (5.48) as follows:

 

yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

 

jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

 

viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo

 

govindam ādi-puruṣaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi

 

"I worship Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, whose plenary portion is Mahā-Viṣṇu. All the heads of the innumerable universes [the Brahmās] live only by taking shelter of the time occupied by one of His breaths."

 

 

So, the life of Brahma, the duration of a universe or a cosmic manifestation is calculated to be 311 Trillion and 40 million years.

Thus 311 Trillion and 40 million years is LESS than one second of absolute time which is eternal and never ending.

[Beggar]

I'm really trying to get so one to address my point: If everything is coming from the Supreme, Janmādy asya yataḥ: [sB 1.1.1] "The Absolute Truth is He from whom everything is being generated.", Srila Prabhupada. So the variegatedness we see here is a perverted reflection of what is there. Then from the Purport BG 15.1"

 

...in other words, the tree of this material world is only a reflection of the real tree of the spiritual world. This reflection of the spiritual world is situated on desire, just as a tree's reflection is situated on water. Desire is the cause of things' being situated in this reflected material light. ...This tree, being the reflection of the real tree, is an exact replica.

So if this world "is an exact replica. Everything is there in the spiritual world." and on this basis we preach that even there is Spiritual Sex life in the Spiritual World then why is it that time in this world is not a perverted reflection of Spiritual Time. Some want to call this speculation, and others want to unleash a barrage of quotes about the relativity of material time. Hence most of the posters are not really engaged in a discussion of the issue.

[Sarva gattah]

Wakey wakey Beggar, hand off

 

Obviously, every moment is eternal devoid of past and future in Goloka, but how are we idiot souls to understand such elevated mellows? It is not mundane time of the material impermanent world, and frankly if we are not pure, we will NEVER understand the 'eternal present ' or the perverted reflection concept of transcendental past, present and future TIME, that DOES AND must exist as part of Krishna’s personal devotional Kingdom of activity, Lila or pastime.

 

Deep questions by all but only realized and experienced by purification and loving service to the pure devotees of Krishna’s devotees, and Never by jnan

[Beggar]

 

Wakey wakey Beggar, hand off

 

Obviously, every moment is eternal devoid of past and future in Goloka, but how are we idiot souls to understand such elevated mellows? It is not mundane time of the material impermanent world, and frankly if we are not pure, we will NEVER understand the 'eternal present ' concept of transcendental past, present and future TIME, that DOES AND must exist as part pf Krishna’s personal devotional Kingdom of activity, Lila pr pastime.

 

Deep questions by all but only realized and experienced by purification and loving service to the pure devotees of Krishna’s devotees, and Never by jnan

 

On this we are in agreement!

[Sonic Yogi]

I think along the same lines a Beggar. This world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world. What we have here is a cheap imitation of the real thing.

Material time is a cheap imitation of spiritual time.

 

In fact, I would not even deny the possibility that there is a "night" in Goloka caused by Yogamaya.

Does Krishna not take rest and sleep?

He certainly does in his Gokula lila.

Does Krishna not dance with the Gopis on the banks of the Yamuna in the MOONLIGHT?

 

If there is no Moonlit nights for Krishna to dance with the Gopis, then how is Gokula an exact replica of Goloka?

 

The great Gaudiya authorities say there is no difference between Goloka and Gokula except that one is manifest on this plane and the other is not.

 

Could Krishnaloka have a Moon?

 

There is no NEED of sunlight or moonlight in Goloka, but that does not mean that there is not such a thing just for the lila.

 

 

Sunlight and Moonlight is not NECESSARY, but is could be there just for the fun of it.

 

Srila Prabhupada said we have just been given a "peep" into the world of Krishna.

 

That little "peep" shows very little of the reality of Krishnaloka.

That "peep" into the erotic conjugal love of Krishna and the gopis is just a very tiny glimpse into the basic concept.

The details have been withheld because it is beyond our grasp at this time.

 

Is there not "asta-kaliya-lila" the eightfold daily pastimes of Krishna in Krishnaloka?

 

The eightfold DAILY pastimes of Krishna are ETERNAL.

 

They are not just temporary material manifestations.

 

 

So, I totally agree with Beggar.

 

We only have a peep into reality and all the details will only be known if and when we can attain to that plane of devotion.

[primate]

 

I'm really trying to get someone to address my point: If everything is coming from the Supreme, Janmādy asya yataḥ: [sB 1.1.1] "The Absolute Truth is He from whom everything is being generated.", Srila Prabhupada. So the variegatedness we see here is a perverted reflection of what is there. Then from the Purport BG 15.1"

So if this world "is an exact replica. Everything is there in the spiritual world." and on this basis we preach that even there is Spiritual Sex life in the Spiritual World then why is it that time in this world is not a perverted reflection of Spiritual Time. Some want to call this speculation, and others want to unleash a barrage of quotes about the relativity of material time. Hence most of the posters are not really engaged in a discussion of the issue.

The real answer may be: Advaita/monism. Everything is one..

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Śrī Brahma-saḿhitā 5.2

 

sahasra-patra-kamalaḿ

 

gokulākhyaḿ mahat padam

 

tat-karṇikāraḿ tad-dhāma

 

tad-anantāḿśa-sambhavam

 

SYNONYMS

 

sahasra-patra — possessing a thousand petals; kamalam — a lotus; gokula-ākhyam — known as Gokula; mahat padam — the superexcellent station; tat — of that (lotus); karṇikāram — the whorl; tat — of Him (Kṛṣṇa); dhāma — the abode; tat — that (Gokula); ananta — of His infinitary aspect, Balarāma; aḿśa — from a part; sambhavam — produced.

 

TRANSLATION

 

[The spiritual place of transcendental pastimes of Kṛṣṇa is portrayed in the second verse.] The superexcellent station of Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Gokula, has thousands of petals and a corolla like that of a lotus sprouted from a part of His infinitary aspect, the whorl of the leaves being the actual abode of Kṛṣṇa.

 

PURPORT

 

Gokula, like Goloka, is not a created mundane plane — unbounded character forms the display of His unlimited potency and His propagating manifestation. Baladeva is the mainstay of that energy. The transcendental entity of Baladeva has two aspects viz., infinite spiritual manifestation and infinite accommodating space for insentient gross things. The uniquadrantal delineation of material universe will be dealt with in the proper place. The triquadrantal extensions of the transcendental infinitary field of the almighty, unlamenting, nonperishing and nonapprehending unlimited situations of halo which are fully spiritual majestic foliation. This very majestical extension portrays the manifested lofty rich feature of the vaster unlimited region or greater atmosphere which has its resplendent location wholly beyond the realm of mundane nature, on the further shore of Virajā surrounded by the halo of Brahman or indistinguishable entity. This majestical power of unlimited spirit emanates on the upper portion of the luminous sphere into the most charming Gokula or eternally existing Goloka, exceedingly beautified by the assorted display of effulgence. Some designate this region as the abode of the Supreme Nārāyaṇa, or the original fountainhead. Hence Gokula, which is identical with Goloka, is the supreme plane. The same sphere shines as Goloka and Gokula respectively by its upper or transcendental and lower or mundane situation.

 

Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī has told us as follows in his Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta which embodies the final essence of all the books of instructions: "He displays His pastimes here in this land as He is used to do in Goloka. The difference between the two planes lies only in their locations as high and low; that is, in other words, Kṛṣṇa plays exactly the same part in Goloka as He exhibits on the mundane plane of Gokula. There is practically no difference between Gokula and Goloka save that this what exists in the shape of Goloka in the upper region is the same as Gokula on the mundane plane when Kṛṣṇa showed His various activity there. Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī has also inculcated the same in the Bhagavat-sandarbha of his 'Six Treatises.' " To ascertain the plane of Goloka — Vṛndāvana is the eternal abode of Kṛṣṇa and Goloka and Vṛndāvana are identically one, and though both are identical, yet Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy has made Goloka the acme of this spiritual kingdom and Gokula of Mathurā province forming a part of the mundane plane which is also a manifestation of triquadrantal vibhūti (conducting majesty). Poor human understanding cannot possibly make out how the extensive triquadrantal, which is beyond human comprehension, can be accommodated in the limited nether material universe of a uniquadrantal disclosure. Gokula is a spiritual plane, hence his condescended position in the region of material space, time, etc., is in no way restricted but unlimitedly manifested with his full boundless propriety. But conditioned souls are apt to assert a material conception in regard to Gokula by their miserable senses so as to bring him below the level of their intellect. Though the eye of an observer is impeded by a cloud when gazing at the sun and though the tiny cloud can never really cover the sun, still the clouded vision apparently observes the sun as covered by the cloud. In just the same way the conditioned souls with their obscured intelligence, senses and decisions, accept Gokula as a piece of measurable land. We can see Gokula from Goloka which is eternal. This is also a mystery. The attainment of final beatitude is the success in attaining one's eternal self. The success in identifying the true self is finally achieved when the screen of gross and subtle coils of conditioned souls is removed by the sweet will of Kṛṣṇa. However, the idea of Goloka is seen to differ from Gokula till the success in unalloyed devotion is achieved. The transcendental plane of infinite spiritual manifestation having thousands of petals and corolla like those of the lotus, is Gokula, the eternal abode of Kṛṣṇa.

Therefore, Gokula Vrindavan that Krishna manifested on Earth where there were days and nights, dancing in the Moonlight and getting up in the morning to go tend the cows is non-different than Krsnaloka or Goloka.

 

The material form of time is a temporary, perverted reflection of spiritual time and the joyous eternal pastimes of the Lord in Krsnaloka.

 

If Krsna can't dance with the gopis in the Moonlight on Krishnaloka, then that would be very sad.

 

I am sure the Moonlight on Krsnaloka is much more beautiful and glorious than the Moonlight we know on Earth.

 

It would be such a loss if Radha and Krishna couldn't take a dip in Syama kunda or Radha kunda in the warm, balmy, breezy Moonlit nights.

 

The material world has Moonlight that is a perverted reflection of the Moonlight of the spiritual world.

 

The spiritual world is not one long eternal day.

There is also the most beautiful and sweet Moonlit nights millions of times more wonderful than any beautiful night on the beach in the Moonlight here in the material world.

 

For anyone that has ever sat on the beach in Hawaii on a Moonlit night and felt the balmy breezes and smelled the Plumeria trees, they can only imagine how much more wonderful such Moonlit nights in Vrindavan on the infinite Yamuna of crystal clear nectar water must be.

[Sonic Yogi]

As far as I know, I am the first thinker connected to the Hare Krishna movement to propose such concepts as I have mentioned above.

I don't expect the whole movement to jump on my wagon of radical, revolutionary thinking.

I would be surprised if anyone did.

 

But, the proposal that life in the spiritual world is one eternal day with no conception of days and nights doesn't really sound all that perfect to me.

 

Real perfection to me would be spiritual days and nights and spiritual Moons and spiritual Moolight to accommodate the lila of Krishna.

 

Just imagine what a Moonlit night on Krishnaloka must be like?

 

After a hard day tending the cows, milking the cows and cooking nice offerings to Krishna, then comes the beautiful Moonlit nights of dancing on the banks of the Yamuna and skinny-dipping in Radha-kunda at night.

 

That sounds better to me than ONE LONG ETERNAL day.

[theist]

 

As far as I know, I am the first thinker connected to the Hare Krishna movement to propose such concepts as I have mentioned above.

I don't expect the whole movement to jump on my wagon of radical, revolutionary thinking.

I would be surprised if anyone did.

 

But, the proposal that life in the spiritual world is one eternal day with no conception of days and nights doesn't really sound all that perfect to me.

 

Real perfection to me would be spiritual days and nights and spiritual Moons and spiritual Moolight to accommodate the lila of Krishna.

 

Just imagine what a Moonlit night on Krishnaloka must be like?

 

After a hard day tending the cows, milking the cows and cooking nice offerings to Krishna, then comes the beautiful Moonlit nights of dancing on the banks of the Yamuna and skinny-dipping in Radha-kunda at night.

 

That sounds better to me than ONE LONG ETERNAL day.

 

 

Sonic Yogi, I am quiet sure 99% of people who read krishna Book have at one time or another wondered the same thing.

 

 

Here is one for you. Did baby Krishna pass stool? Does baby Krishna pass stool in Goloka?

 

 

If Krishna or His devotees want something like night and moonlight for the enhancment of His pastimes I am sure it can be arranged. But one thing I know is that arrangement will not be based on some mechanical arrangement like a moon having a specified orbit.

 

 

Anthropormorphism is a very real danger for us personalists.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

 

Here is one for you. Did baby Krishna pass stool? Does baby Krishna pass stool in Goloka?

 

 

 

 

Krishna Book ch.8

 

Sometimes being unable to steal our butter and yogurt, out of anger They pass urine on the clean floor and sometimes spit on it.

Well, Krishna's body is always spiritual.

If he could pee on the clean floors of the gopi's houses in Gokula, then the ability to pee is an eternal aspect of the spiritual body of Krishna.

 

I asked that same question you are asking many years ago when I was in ISKCON during the time of Srila Prabhupada and the Gobrother I asked told me "Prabhupada said" that passing stool in the spiritual world is also done as part of devotional service and the stool in the spiritual world comes out like flowers and smells very sweet and fragrant.

 

Are you implying that Krishna's body in Goloka does not have an anus?

He has a genital but not an anus?

 

Man is created in the image of God.

If man has an anus it is because God has an anus.

 

If the anus is not used for passing stool, then it wouldn't be an anus.

 

Do they not eat in the spiritual world.

Sure, not because they have to but because it is blissfull.

 

Do they pass stool in the spiritual world?

Sure, not because they have to but because it is spiritually blissfull.

 

The material world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world.

 

Sure, they pass stool there, but it is not obnoxious and disgusting refuse.

It is something that is done as an offering to Krishna.

 

Everything in the spiritual world is devotional service.

Passing stool is aslo devotional service.

 

But, then again that is why Prabhupada didn't talk much about these things because our tiny pea brains have too much trouble trying to grasp these concepts.

 

Do the cows in Goloka not pass stool?

I certainly hope so, because I love the smell of a nice barnyard covered in cow manure.

 

In Goloka, the cow manure smells so wonderful that it simply enthralls the devotees.

[Sonic Yogi]

See, Mayavada says God does not need an anus. God does not need a genital. God does not need eyes or hands or feet.

God in fact does not need a body because God is just clean white transcendental light.

 

So, if we take the anus away from God, we are well on our way to taking away his form and becoming Mayavadi.

 

Krishna's passing stool is lila. He does not HAVE to pass stool. It is all a part of his lila.

 

[theist]

What I am suggesting is you are engaging in a personalist version of anthropomorphism. Goloka must be an exact replica of earth only perfect. Same thing when someone tries to impose their idea of time sequence on the spiritual world.

 

Srila Prabhupada was placating your level of understanding IMO.

 

Now one can surely imagine humanoid beings in this material world who take in energy through sunlight without the need to eat and pass stool. So they would not conceive of the spiritual world as a place to pass stool. IMO Krishna displays His lila in accordance to the audience He is trying to attract. He would not display earthly human like pastimes like passing stool on such a world.

 

This is a weird one.

 

So, if we take the anus away from God, we are well on our way to taking away his form and becoming Mayavadi.

 

Then God must possess intestines, pancreas, liver ,brain and all other mechanical parts found in the human body according to you.

 

A personalist version of anthropomorphism IMO.

[Beggar]

What about Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in His nara lila or human-like lila in Navadvipa where He was known as Nimai Pandit? Gaudiya Vaisnavas believe that He is Krsna, Himself. What about His body and His pastimes? Could you say that He simply appeared to pass stool? the bottom line is that both Krsna's and Mahaprabhu's lilas are nara lila, or human like. How much do we really need to know anyway? After all can we really "know our way in" to the lila?

[Narasingh]

 

So if you don't think you can reach the same status as your spiritual master then you are certainly speculating.

 

This is a very dangerous philosophy. You imply that a conditioned soul once purified is not really purified. He has some eternal taint about him. Also no one can be a spiritual master who did not come from the spiritual world. In this way you limit the purifying potency of Krishna Nama which might just be an offense.

I guess we call all claim to be spiritual master now that we understand we are all actually nitya-siddha in nitya-lila. We have all come from the spiritual world according to this philosophy. Therefore we are all as good as our spiritual masters.

 

This is the quagmire of saying that we are all dreaming that we are in Maya while really being in nitya-lila: The spiritual master descends from the spiritual world (just as we also descend from the spiritual world since we are all really nitya siddhas) and displays his prakata lila as acharya (just as we display our prakata lila of illusion). The spiritual master teaches Krsna Consciousness as a means to releave our suffering; teaches us that we are just dreaming and that actually we are nitya siddha/nitya lila. Why endeavor unless our endeavor is just our "prakata lila" while our aprakata lila is in Krsna Lila? And if our endeavor is just "prakata lila" one may insist on just biding their time till they wake up. The acharya descends as a call to action, and this (you are a nitya-siddha in nitya-lila but you're just dreaming that you are under the influence of Maha-Maya) philosophy is placing great ambiguity on the call to action.

 

Perhaps this Maha Maya is actually Yoga Maya and we are all just displaying our prakata lilas of being married/unmarried/troubled/enlightened/doctors/labourers etc...

[theist]

I guess we call all claim to be spiritual master now that we understand we are all actually nitya-siddha in nitya-lila.

 

 

A bit silly don't you think? Who would expect a dreaming person to describe the awakened state?

 

 

 

We have all come from the spiritual world according to this philosophy. Therefore we are all as good as our spiritual masters.

 

 

So if you don't think you can become or realize your own perfection then why are you wasting you time chanting?

[theist]

 

How much do we really need to know anyway? After all can we really "know our way in" to the lila?

 

 

Well that is my point. What value is there in speculating that if someone doesn't believe Krishna has an anus in Goloka he must be a mayavadi as the Sonic Yogi told me.

 

Thanks for making my point so succinctly.

[Beggar]

THE DISCOVERY OF URANUS:

Uranus was discovered in 1781. Before that, our solar system consisted of just six planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. William Herschel, a German musician in England believed that the sky was full of secrets. He began to build his own telescope in his free time. After some two hundred failures, he finally produced a working telescope with a 6.5 inch reflecting mirror that showed clear images. On March 13, 1781, Herschel looked at the constellation of Gemini and saw that it was large and pale blue in color. This suggested to him that it was a lot closer to Earth than anyone had imagined and actually not part of Gemini at all. Thinking that he had found a planet, he began to record its movements. Soon, he realized that the behavior of this object was not like an ordinary comet. He realized that he had discovered a new planet-the seventh planet orbiting the sun. During Herschel's work, King George III encouraged and rewarded him. To show his gratitude, Herschel wanted to call this new planet George's Star. It was later changed to Uranus after the Greek god of the heavens to match the other planets that are named after Greek and Roman gods. These names follow in ancestral order, where Mars is the son of Jupiter, Jupiter is the son of Saturn and Saturn is the son of Uranus.

 

<table width="575" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td width="508">

This picture of Uranus was taken by the Voyager 2. The one on the left is a true-color image, while the one on the right is a false-colored image of Uranus. </td> <td width="53" align="right">top...</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

 

THE VOYAGER 2:

Most of the information of Uranus was sent back to us by Voyager 2, the U.S. space probe. It took pictures and measurements of our solar system for years and sent them back to Earth by radio waves. The Voyager 2 was launched in August of 1977 and actually put on a course for Jupiter. The mission was for it to survey that planet two years later. The next target was Saturn, which in August of 1981, the Voyager sent back pictures of Saturn and its rings. Since the probe was still functioning very well, scientists sent it out to Uranus.

There were several problems to fix before the scientists could get the probe to Uranus. First was the great distance. Uranus was about 1.84 billion miles away, making it take 2 hours and 45 minutes for radio messages to travel between Earth and the Voyager. Instructions for the probe had to be sent out 2 hours and 45 minutes in advance. Another problem was that since the sunlight was so dim around Uranus, snapshots could not be taken. Long exposures were needed for the Voyager to bring back information. The problem was that the Voyager moved about 100 miles during a ten second exposure making it difficult to get a clear picture. The engineers programmed the Voyager so that it moved slightly backward to offset its motion forward. The effect was that the camera was able to remain on target and take clear images.

The Voyager 2 will continue to travel further and further away from Earth until it reaches deep space. But even then, it will still send back pictures of everything it sees and hears.

 

 

top...

 

THE FUTURE:

In the first two hundred years after Uranus was discovered, we learned very little about this planet. It was too far away to be observed in great detail from Earth. It all changed in 1984 when Voyager 2 gathered enough information to increase our knowledge of Uranus. Before the Voyager was launched, the scientists had planned to send a whole series of space probes to explore the planets. They wanted to take advantage of the position of the planets since they were all aligned on the same side of the sun. This is a rare occurrence and would not happen again for the next 175 years. This mission was called the Grand Tour. Due to a cut on the funds, only two probes were sent to study Jupiter and Saturn. Because the information that was sent back to us was so valuable, the scientists were allowed to reprogram the Voyager so it could fly by Uranus and Neptune. The probe used the gravity of the planet that it passes to go out further at a greater speed to reach the next planet. It took eight and a half years for the Voyager to travel from Earth to Uranus. Without the planets gravitational assist, it would have taken some thirty years.

Scientists listen to messages that the Voyager sends back as it searches for the point where the solar winds die and charged ions no longer travel away from the sun but instead towards it. This is the edge of our solar system. A lack of funds continues to force the space program to move slowly. No new probes were planned for Uranus in this past century. Uranus will remain a mystery two billion miles away.

[Narasingh]

 

I guess we call all claim to be spiritual master now that we understand we are all actually nitya-siddha in nitya-lila.

A bit silly don't you think? Who would expect a dreaming person to describe the awakened state?

Yes it is a bit silly, but I suspect we are pointing out silliness from different perspectives. Nevertheless, why describe the dreaming state to one who is dreaming? The act of dreaming indicates the act of waking, just as the notion of birth indicates death. If we are nitya-siddha in nitya-lila what more do we need? What is the need of waking a dreaming person to tell them their dream is not real? Once the person awakes, they will already understand. Afterall, its just a dream.

 

 

 

We have all come from the spiritual world according to this philosophy. Therefore we are all as good as our spiritual masters.

So if you don't think you can become or realize your own perfection then why are you wasting you time chanting?

That is the point. The point is, why try to realize our perfection, since we are already inherently perfect nitya-siddhas in nitya-lila. So, exactly, why chant?

[theist]

 

Yes it is a bit silly, but I suspect we are pointing out silliness from different perspectives. Nevertheless, why describe the dreaming state to one who is dreaming?

 

 

Why? Why do parents who see their child being terrorized by a nightmare try to wake them up explaining "it is only a dream little one."

 

The awakened souls try to awaken the dreaming souls because the dreaming souls actually think they are awake. The awakened soul knows they(the dreaming souls) are sleeping and being tormented by both pleasant and unpleasant dreams and in total forgetfulness of Krishna. "Jiv Jago!"

 

 

The act of dreaming indicates the act of waking, just as the notion of birth indicates death. If we are nitya-siddha in nitya-lila what more do we need?

 

 

Word juggelry. You need to remember it.

 

 

 

What is the need of waking a dreaming person to tell them their dream is not real? Once the person awakes, they will already understand. Afterall, its just a dream.

 

 

Why did Srila Prabhupada try to awaken the world?

 

 

 

The awakened souls try to awaken the dreamingsouls because the dreaming souls actually think they are awake. Theawakened soul knows they(the dreaming souls) are sleeping and beingtormented by both pleasant and unpleasant dreams and in totalforgetfulness of Krishna. "Jiv Jago!"

 

 

 

 

That is the point. The point is, why try to realize our perfection, since we are already inherently perfect nitya-siddhas in nitya-lila. So, exactly, why chant?

 

 

Answered above already.

 

[theist]

No point in trying any longer to convince you three. All of you are intiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada and if he can't convince you you are dreaming then who am I to.

 

Hare Krishna

[eternalme]

Pranaam

 

Time is subject matter of observance, hence of mind the manah.

In absolute present state there is no use of time and hence its not felt in the stages of higher consciousness as a reality, hence the term Turiya, becasue everything stands still and the obeserver is completely lost in the subject and not in the object.

With object comes the comparison of present past and imagination of future.

So in other words time has no existence, as we know of it, in form of mechanical hands moving and solar events in the spritual world.