Matador30 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 The soul never takes birth and never dies at any time nor does it come into being again when the body is created - bhagavat gita 2/20 When the soul never takes birth how can the soul be born again ? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 The soul never takes birth and never dies at any time nor does it come into being again when the body is created - bhagavat gita 2/20 When the soul never takes birth how can the soul be born again ? Thank you. It is very much like our nightly dreams. Each character from one night to the next that we take to be ourelves can be taken as a birth. One night I dream I am a prince and the next night I dream I am a homeless pauper. The reality is I never was a prince or a pauper...I am the dreamer. So in this way the soul dreams it is born as a prince (in the gross world) and then eventualy dies. Analagus to waking up in the morning. The next night he experiences life as a pauper until the pauper dies and then something else. When we are "born" into this world it is not that the soul actually travels through space and enters a certain womb. What happens is we project our consciousness to that body exactly like we project our consciousness into our dream body at night and "live" in that fantasy even though we are still lyng in the same bed. This of course means that the whole material experience is a dream at night we dream and when we "awake" in the morning that is just another dream. We take the awakened side to be real because the duration is long and there appears to be a certain consistency in the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 It is very much like our nightly dreams. Each character from one night to the next that we take to be ourelves can be taken as a birth. One night I dream I am a prince and the next night I dream I am a homeless pauper. The reality is I never was a prince or a pauper...I am the dreamer. So in this way the soul dreams it is born as a prince (in the gross world) and then eventualy dies. Analagus to waking up in the morning. The next night he experiences life as a pauper until the pauper dies and then something else. When we are "born" into this world it is not that the soul actually travels through space and enters a certain womb. What happens is we project our consciousness to that body exactly like we project our consciousness into our dream body at night and "live" in that fantasy even though we are still lyng in the same bed. This of course means that the whole material experience is a dream at night we dream and when we "awake" in the morning that is just another dream. We take the awakened side to be real because the duration is long and there appears to be a certain consistency in the experience. In other words, this material body we have is just a machine that makes it possible for our unlimited dreams to come true. The newly-elected US Pres Barack Obama as an individual soul dreamed while as a child of becoming the Pres. of the United States of America someday. His material body( including his brain) have made it possible for Mr. Obama to become a real one today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matador30 Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 This of course means that the whole material experience is a dream at night we dream and when we "awake" in the morning that is just another dream. We take the awakened side to be real because the duration is long and there appears to be a certain consistency in the experience. Thank you very much Theist Ji for this beautiful explanation. Is this a common view of all the 3 schools of Vedanta ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaisersose Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 soul never takes birth and never dies at any time nor does it come into being again when the body is created - bhagavat gita 2/20 When the soul never takes birth how can the soul be born again ? Thank you The answer is in your question. The soul is not born again. It transitions through different bodies - one at a time. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Thank you very much Theist Ji for this beautiful explanation. Is this a common view of all the 3 schools of Vedanta ? I really can't compare different schools thinking on matters as I have only learned from Gaudiya teachers. I would think so however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 When the soul never takes birth how can the soul be born again ? thats the body you are speaking of .its the body that takes a new birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 For the soul there is neither birth nor death.. Na Hanti Na Hanyate... No one kills and no one dies... What an untrained eye can see is just the external evolution without really realizing the internal changeless state which is the cause for bliss and the former, the cause for distress... A man of proper intelligence becomes the cause for the proper manipulation of these opposite state... There is a big difference between yourself and your garment.. you remain you even after changing many garments... a man in suit feels proud of himself, identifying himself with that suit he becomes what he is not... likewise for the sloven... he think himself inferior by identifying himself by his cloth... see how the garment is the source of the miseries of Happiness and distress... Maili Chaadar Odhke Kaise Dwaar Tumhaare Aaoon Hey Paavan Parameshwara Mere Man Hi Man Sharmaaoon Tune Mujhko Jag Me Bhejaa Nirmal Dekar Kaayaa Is Sansaar Me Aakar Maine Isko Daag Lagaaya Janam Janam Ki Maili Chaadar Kaise Daag Chudaaoon Nirmal Vaani Paakar Tujhse Naam Na Teraa Gaayaa Nain Moondhkar He Parameshwar Kabhi Naa Tujhko Dhyaayaa Man Veena Ki Taaren Tooti Ab Kyaa Geeth Sunaaoon In Pairon Se Chal Kar Tere Mandir Kabhi Na Aayaa Jahaan Jahaan Ho Poojaa Teri Kabhi Naa Sees Jhukaayaa Hey Harihar Main Haar Ke Aayaa Ab Kyaa Haar Chadhaaoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Wow Amlesh. Beautiful poem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matador30 Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Thank you everyone Since the body reincarnates, is it same as the matter cycle ? The matter always remains constant, human population is increasing so we can assume that some form of matter has been transformed into human or living beings. The human body is made up of things of the earth (panch bhutas) : the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat & after the death all these elements would be returning back to earth. Can this be a possibility ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolrishu Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 look............. soul is just an energy that enters and goes, just a simple physical phenomenon jai shiri krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Thank you everyone Since the body reincarnates, is it same as the matter cycle ? The matter always remains constant, human population is increasing so we can assume that some form of matter has been transformed into human or living beings. The human body is made up of things of the earth (panch bhutas) : the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat & after the death all these elements would be returning back to earth. Can this be a possibility ? You forgot that there millions of planet and as such many ups and downs and as such.. you're perception of permutation and combination concerning the change of Garment between elements is not profound enough... since there are chances of animals getting human bodies, of hellman getting the chance for redemption or the falling of many from the upper planetary systems. The list concerning the explanation of such phenomenon is not exhautive.. just read the Gita well.. everything is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Wow Amlesh. Beautiful poem. Thanks Avinash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matador30 Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Q. Who is me ? A. I am Jiva-atman Jiva-Atman is same as Param-Atman So there is no Jiva-Atman only Param-Atman So there is no Jiva-Atman or Soul, who is changing garments ? and thanks Amlesh Ji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Q. Who is me ?A. I am Jiva-atman Jiva-Atman is same as Param-Atman So there is no Jiva-Atman only Param-Atman So there is no Jiva-Atman or Soul, who is changing garments ? and thanks Amlesh Ji No there is jiva atma And paramatma. They exist eternally The Paramatma is the Supreme Lord and the jivas are tiny parts of Him. The jiva atma sometimes get overwhelmed by maya whereas maya is an energy of paramatma's and always under His control. The jiva is forced to reincarnate whereas the Paramatma accompanies the jiva waiting to aid him whem he wants to return to Krishna consciousness. Although the jiva is part of Krishna and hence one with Krishna both the jiva and paramatma retain their own separate identities eternally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 The Heart is the vessel where 2 souls reside... The sacred text beautifully explains that "The heart is compared to a branch where 2 birds reside.. one is the jivatma and the other the Parmatma..." The Parmatma acts as the silent witness and also as the rod of chastisement depending on the level of Monkey-ism of the other bird. The Parmatma is distinct from the Jivatma.. but the Parmatma is the soul of all the souls. We are part of Truth, He is the absolute Truth... Don't go by the Theory of the soul to be merged to parmatma after liberation.. we were never detached from Him..We are part and parcel of the Supreme from time without beginning... we are all already interconnected like a threaded necklace.. just that we've forgotten that very beautiful relationship.. The basic principle of the soul is needed to be known.. the rest comes automatically.. and the only Teacher is Sri Krishna... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 Jiva-Atman is same as Param-Atman So there is no Jiva-Atman only Param-Atman So there is no Jiva-Atman or Soul, who is changing garments ? may be you are speaking advaita . in this branch there is no distinction between jivatma and paramatma . in fact there is no distinction at all . but in dualistic school they are eternally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matador30 Posted December 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 Thank you everyone may be you are speaking advaita . in this branch there is no distinction between jivatma and paramatma . in fact there is no distinction at all . but in dualistic school they are eternally different. So there is no creation & creator as per Advaita ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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