Brahm has a Form

[ranjeetmore]

"Svechhopat pritha vapuh"

- Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Sri Bhagavan does whatsoever He wishes and However so He wishes it.

 

 

 

 

"Nishvasit masya Vedaha"

 

He BREATHED.

 

"Ahasya mahato bhutasya nichvatimetat rg vedo,yajur veda,sama vedotharva vedah.."

 

The Four vedas were manifested in His BREATH.

 

"Sa icchat" -Aitereya upanishad 1.1.

 

He THOUGHT.

 

***

 

 

"Sa Icchanchakre." - Prashnopanishad 6.3

 

"Tad Icchat." -Chadogya Upanishad 6.2.3.

 

"Sa aizcchat." - Brhadaranyako Upanishad.

 

"So Kaamayat" Taitereya upanishad 2.6

 

He had a DESIRE.

 

***

 

"Smitam" He smiled.

 

 

"Vikcchittam" He Observed.

 

 

 

***

 

"Dva dasha vadu bhaya vidho badarayano ta" Brahm Sutra 4.4.12

 

"Sa yada sa sharira tam sankalpa yati

tadasa shariro bhavati

yada tva shariratam

tada tva shariraha

satya sankalpatvat

sankalpa vyatyityacca"

 

- SHAANKAR Bhasya.

 

 

Brahm is Formless as well as with an eternal Form.He mainfests these Two forms from beginningless time with His energy of "Satya Sankalpa".

 

Note that Satya Sankalpa is the energy manifested ONLY is Saguna,Sakar,Savishesh Brahm Sri Krsna.

Satya Sankalpa ...The possessor of this energy Immediately implies the Supreme Person.For Only a PERSONALITY exhibits the energy or working out of a 'sankalpa'/'desire'.

 

Thus Brahm is understood to be a PERSONALITY who has infinite energies.

 

 

 

 

"....The Divine Purusha with a thousand heads, eyes, feet and arms (Virat-purusha),

He entered Brahma Himself.He created seven mental sons – they created the seven pro-creators...."

1-6. Subala Upanishad.

 

***

....from that Great Purusha's forehead,was created Rudra (of anger)...

 

-Subala Upanishad.

 

***

 

"At the end, becoming Vaisvanara (fire), He destroys all creatures – earth enters into water, water into fire, fire into air, air into ether, ether into sense organs, they into subtle elements, they into Prakriti, Prakriti into Mahat, Mahat into Avyakta, Avyakta into Akshara, Akshara into Tamas,Tamas in that Primeval Godhead/Mahapurusha.This is the process of Mahapralaya ."

 

- Subala Upanishad

 

 

***

 

 

"The UNBORN, alone, immortal Being inside the body(inside everyone's body as paramatma different from aatma), whose body is the Earth,Who moves inside water, Who moves inside fire,Who moves inside Air,Who moves inside the Aakash,so also inside Mind, Intellect, Ego,Chitta, Avyakta (unmanifest), Akshara (imperishable), Death – He sits within everything,He is the Sinless One,He is the Supersoul,Divine Narayana."

 

 

-Subala Upanishad 4.1

 

***

 

 

 

Adityas, Rudras, Maruts, Vasus, Asvins, Rik, Yajus, Sama, Mantras, Agni, oblation – all originate from Him, Narayana.

 

Subala Upanishad 3.4

 

***

 

 

 

"All this exists from Purusha only – the past and the future – that high place of Vishnu – the sages look upon it always.The sages without mental conflict(CONTROL OVER MIND/complete purification of the mind) enhance its glory."-

- Subala Upanishad 3.7

 

 

 

This is the key to liberation according to the Vedas.

("One who knows the Three PURUSHA incarnations of Sri Bhagavan is eligible to cross Material Samsara"- Bhagvatam.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This Paramatma is NOT ATTAINED by :

hundreds of expositions,

not by great learning,

nor by reliance on intellectual knowledge,

nor through memorising the Vedas,

sacrifices, austerities,

NOR THROUGH SANKHYA OR YOGA,

Ashramas/Varnaasramas,

elucidation,

laudation and exercises.

 

The knowers of Vedas achieve it, having become calm, restrained, withdrawn, tolerant.(CONTROL OVER MIND/Completely purified Mind).

 

- Subala Upanishad 4.16

 

 

Thus CONTROL OF MIND is NOT POSSIBLE by Sankhya/yoga/tapa/study of scriptures/JNYANA,etc.

 

They are No. 1 FOOLS who say that they have CONTROLLED THEIR MIND on their own merit.

I repeat.

No. 1 FOOLS.

[ranjeetmore]

That high place of Vishnu the wise ones always behold like an eye extended in heaven. The sages, praising and awake exalt that supreme status of Vishnu.

 

- Skanda Upanishad 14-15

[ranjeetmore]

Through the contemplation and worship of My (Hari’s) feet, every person is delivered from his ignorance. The means of destroying deaths and births is ONLY through the contemplation of My feet.

 

-Varaha Upanishad(3.12)

 

EVA= ONLY.

Sri Bhagavan has used 'Eva' so many times in the Gita.

Eva.Surrender ONLY to Me.

 

NOT surrender to Me also.

Surrender to Me ONLY.

 

"Many Crores of Brahmas have passed away. Many kings have flitted away like particles of dust. Even to a Jnani, the love of the body may arise through the Asura (demoniacal/avidya) nature. If the Asura nature should arise in a wise man, his knowledge of truth becomes fruitless."

 

-Varaha Upanishad(3.23)

 

The Supreme Lord Is describing the momentary staying power of Atma-jnyana.

 

 

"In the eyes of an Atma-Jnani, these Siddhis are of no importance. One who has become an Atma-Jnani, one who has his sight solely on Paramatma, and one who is content with Atman (the supersoul/paramatma) through his Atman (jeevatma), never follows the dictates of Avidya."

 

-Varaha Upanishad(3.27)

Here,the Brahm Jnyani is described.Brahm Jyana is possible only when Sri Bhagvan gives His mercy.

 

Only then will the person be situated BEYOND Vidya Maya.

 

Whereas the Atma-jyani is situated in HIS OWN ATOMIC self.This falls under SATTVIKA category(Vidya).

The Atma-jnyani HAS TO FALL DOWN and again gets entangled in Avidya(Rajas,tamas).

 

This is the conclusion of the Bhagavata also,

"Param padam tatah Patanti..."

 

After reaching the highest step,the jnyani FALLS DOWN.

 

This Atma jynana is so Blissful (For jeeva being the atomic energy of Ananda/rasa/Brahm is the faint experience of that Ananda.)

That the atma-jynani THINKS this is brahm jyana....He doesn't even want Brahmaloka now...

 

But he doesn't know....He eliminates Avidya Maya by dint of his own strength.BUT VIDYA maya NEVER goes unless He surrenders to Sri Hari.

Sri Bhagavan Reveals,"Maya is My energy.No one Can cross her.This is My challenge."

 

This is the conclusion of the

Sruti(Above mentioned- Varaha,Gopala tapni,Skanda,Subala upanishad)

 

Smriti(Bhagvata,Vishnu,Skanda puranas etc.)

 

 

Itihasa(Ramayana,MAhabharata)

 

Vedas("Sada Pashchayanty surayah tad vishnoh paramam padam"- Rg Veda).

[theist]

The world is blessed by scholarly men who are also Vaisnava's and use their abilities and knowledge to glorify the Supremacy of the Supreme Person such as the above.

 

 

Hare Krishna

[ranjeetmore]

To tell you the truth,your comment has made me quite happy but we both know that I have absolutely no capacity to retain all this knowledge.

 

Actually,I am very cheap.I simply copy all this from the lectures of Sri Maharaj ji.

 

Radhe Radhe.

[ranjeetmore]

And I would Like to clarify ONE point.

 

Many pple here are envious of Sri Maharaj ji.

For them:

I am neither his disciple nor have I even Talked to him ONCE.

I have seen him only once,that too from 10 feet far.

I only listen to him on T.V.

 

I hope this settles once and for all the wicked tendency to demean him just becoz he appears as my spiritual master.

 

He doesn't have a single disciple NOR does he run any kind of a Sampradaya.

He may be a 'Small time guru' but for me,he is the reservoir of all-knowledge.

 

Gaura Hari bol.

[theist]

 

And I would Like to clarify ONE point.

 

Many pple here are envious of Sri Maharaj ji.

For them:

I am neither his disciple nor have I even Talked to him ONCE.

I have seen him only once,that too from 10 feet far.

I only listen to him on T.V.

 

I hope this settles once and for all the wicked tendency to demean him just becoz he appears as my spiritual master.

 

He doesn't have a single disciple NOR does he run any kind of a Sampradaya.

He may be a 'Small time guru' but for me,he is the reservoir of all-knowledge.

 

Gaura Hari bol.

 

 

That is your business. I don't want his siksa. That is mine. Applies only to me. There is more than correct scriptural interpretations.

 

 

Anyway why did you bring him up again? You cannot censor others views or opinions.

 

 

But please go beyond the copy and paste format. We would like to hear your voice.

 

 

Hare Krishna

[ranjeetmore]

I wasn't adressing you.

[ranjeetmore]

Padma Purana states,"You should always remember Sri Krsna and you should never Forget Him.All the vedic,shastric and puranic injunctions should be the servants of these two principles."

 

Sri Gauranga has also stated that,"Manera Smarana praan."

Smarana by the MIND is the Praana/life force of Sadhana Bhakti.Without it,sadhana bhakti cannot be called sadhana bhakti at all.

It is physical drill.

 

Those following the tradition of unconditional prema towards Sri Bhagavan HAVE to follow Bhakti Rasamrt Sindhu Bindu.

It is the final word.

 

Bhakti Rasamrt Sindhu outlines three most important principles to be followed by sadhakas.

The first and the most important of these 3 principles is:

 

To ALWAYS remember the Supreme lord Shyamasundara alongwith His Name,Pastimes,Abode,Paraphernalia and His Associates.

It further states that the mind should LITERALLY REMAIN amongst Hari,Harijan and these above outlined features.Everything that relates to or contributes to the above principles is to be accepted,everything else is to be discarded for everything else is kusanga.

 

Sri Mahaprabhu has clarified that PAAPA / heinous karma,ALSO FALLS UNDER the category of PUNYA.

That means PAAPA,PUNYA both are PAAPA,for they are not favourable to Sri Hari Bhakti.

Moresoever,MUKTI / liberation and the yearning for it is to be discarded like a filthy cloth from the mind.

 

From revelations of transcendentalists of the highest kind we have this information :

 

"If you take Brahmananda/bliss experienced in brahmjnyan state, MULTIPLY that bliss by half of Sri Brahmdeva's life i.e. around 150 trillion times, EVEN THEN, the resultant Bhramananda or bliss cannot even match up to a DROP of bliss experienced in premananda."

 

We should understand the implications of such a statement.

 

There are only 3 paths towards Brahm or atleast the vedas are divided into 3 sections:

The largest section pertaining to Karma Kaanda.

The second section concerning Jyana Marga.

The third section describing the Bhakti path.

 

"Kanda traya atmako vedah,Jnyana,karmach,bhaktis ca."

 

KArma Kanda is accepted as useless by both Advaitins and Bhaktas.

But many are stuck up on the path towards kaivalya.

 

There are only a handful of cases of persons who were completely liberated from birth itself.Such persons are known as Atmaramas,amalatmas,paramhamsas,etc.

Four such personalities, Shaunak,sanaka, and other two.

These four paramhamsas are wandering in their unbreakable samadhi and they come across Sri Narayana.

 

As soon as the fragrance of tulsi leaf on the feet of NArayana enters their nostrils,they immediately come out from their samadhi just like a miser who is sleeping in deep sleep comes to know that he has won the lottery.

 

They compose such verses that are impossible for materially conditioned souls to relish,yet one point is of use.

"Sri Narayana ! The fragrance of the tulsi leaf on your divine feet has broken our samdhi in no time! I declare that Brahmananda is like a hoofprint full of water in fron of this Bliss We are experiencing."

 

Sri Shankaracharya only agrees in full vigour when he,in prema samadhi of Sri Krsna,declares that he doesn't want svarga/heaven or even MUKTI/liberation.Those are fools who want all that,he says.

 

"I want only to be immersed in thinking about my lord Sri krsna's Lotus feet."

 

Now such a statement is common for shankaracharya to make.He says so about all the Gods.

Is that so ?

Please verify.

He DOES NOT.

 

He's either asking for good health(falls under bhukti)

or he's asking for liberation(mukti)

in kanakashtakam(praise of Mahalaxmi) he asks for prosperity and good health(bhukti)

and in many other praises he asks for putting a halt to the cycle of birth and death.(mukti)

 

BUT.in the end,he comes upon real bhakti,the one which is of the highest form.

This is THE REAL DEAL.

 

There is nothing higher than this.

 

And now no one can even say that Sri Krsna was a form of sattva guna.

If He were under sattva guna,He would have never attracted the minds absorbed in samadhi...like those of Sanaka parmahamsa and Shankaracharya !

Even a person who has realised atma,through his own effort,kicks away Indraloka.

The one situated in Brahmjyana is Atmarama,Purna kam,Nishkaam.He is fully content.

Now if such a person says that "I want to smell Sri Krsna's feet" there is only one possibility :

That Sri Krsna is Purna Param Brahm,Who exists BEYOND all the three modes of nature,with a Form,Features,Name and abode which make even Brahmananda look like a miserable condition.

 

Thus Sri Krsna prema Bhakti is established as the Supreme transcendental achievement.

There can be no debate on this point for obvious reasons.

 

 

"I dont want MUKTI and i don't want BHUKTI.Those who do,are the biggest fools."

 

SO BE IT.

[bhaktajan]

As i read ththe first post I begain to squint at the screen --was this so beautifully said, or, what?

 

then i read this, by Theist in post 3:

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

The world is blessed by scholarly men who are also Vaisnava's and use their abilities and knowledge to glorify the Supremacy of the Supreme Person such as the above.

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

This is what i was thinking ---but with added insight (about the, "also vaishnava" --I'd considered that definitive scholarly work concludes with of course ONLY "as Sri Bhagavan has used 'Eva' so many times in the Gita.").

 

Indeed the summit of scholarly perspicacity. Brava! Brava! Brava!

[bhaktajan]

Holy God in Heaven I JUST FINISHED READING POST 9!

 

This is so well composed!

 

........................................

Prabhuji,

You should print this on an 2.8x4.3cm [11x17"] with color graphic added as a keepsake.

 

Oops I just did it myself--well I got my copy ---it's crunched!--it's composed for 8.5 inch x 14 inch paper.

[bija]

 

Sri Gauranga has also stated that,"Manera Smarana praan."

Smarana by the MIND is the Praana/life force of Sadhana Bhakti.Without it,sadhana bhakti cannot be called sadhana bhakti at all.

It is physical drill.

Ranjeet, your gurudeva is teaching you so nicely.

 

Do you think jnana-misra-bhakti or karma-misra-bhakti has any place in our sadhana?

[ranjeetmore]

 

Holy God in Heaven I JUST FINISHED READING POST 9!

 

This is so well composed!

 

........................................

Prabhuji,

You should print this on an 2.8x4.3cm [11x17"] with color graphic added as a keepsake.

 

Oops I just did it myself--well I got my copy ---it's crunched!--it's composed for 8.5 inch x 14 inch paper.

 

 

You are really very kind.

[ranjeetmore]

No no..

No Jnana misra,Karma misra.

 

Prabhuji,I know you know all this:

 

We are by nature greedy for highest happiness.

Only Sri Radha Krsna Bhajana in the mood of Parakiya bestows that kind of happiness.

 

Sri Krsna says to Uddhava,Your more dear to me than Myself or even Shankara.

 

And you know it better that the gopis are accepted as greater than Sri Uddhava.

 

Thus ONLY raganuga...Not even Vaidhi.

Thus no question of Jnana/karma misra bhakti.

 

You,sir,actually are better at this than i can ever be,so don't pretend as if your asking to gain knowledge.

[ranjeetmore]

Bija,

You are more knowledgeable than i could ever be.

 

My battery is extremely low.I will get back later.

 

Radhe radhe.

[ranjeetmore]

oops...I thought post no. 14 was not posted.........anyway.

[bija]

 

No no..

No Jnana misra,Karma misra.

 

We are by nature greedy for highest happiness.

Only Sri Radha Krsna Bhajana in the mood of Parakiya bestows that kind of happiness.

 

Sri Krsna says to Uddhava,Your more dear to me than Myself or even Shankara.

 

And you know it better that the gopis are accepted as greater than Sri Uddhava.

 

Thus ONLY raganuga...Not even Vaidhi.

Thus no question of Jnana/karma misra bhakti.

 

 

Ranjeet understanding theoretically the goal of Gaudiya Vaisnavism is not that difficult (for me), but some need to be practical in day to day life. For example not all are rasika bhaktas, but instead (personally speaking) have devotion pervaded by yoga and jnana. These samskaras cover my heart and are well founded in the mind.

 

So my questioning is this...if we are at a lower station than the ideal of suddha-bhakti, can jnana-misra-bhakti be applied as a follower of Sri Caitanya?

 

Personally I think it is possible, even if not perfect way. Necessary in that one has to follow their nature (and apply it in service). That is the way I see Gita as a practical and progressive spiritual treatise. Maybe by following that nature the ideal will manifest in due course. Maybe association in the future will bless the sincere with the high ideal...that is why I think you have such excellent shelter in your GuruMaharja. Run to it...>>>>

 

Ofcourse I know Ranjeet that all our teachers speak of the 'pure bhakti'. But for me it is not yet possible. Whereas jnana-merging consciousness and self integration-yoga seems closer to attainment (it is tangible experience). Still full of desires ofcourse, with out that one pointed vision to please God (alone) through simple love. That is my misfortune (considering I hold the ideal of Sri Rupa in the deeper aspect of heart).

 

Pure bhakti is such a rare thing, hey Ranjeet.

 

 

Vijaya: What are the intrinsic characteristics (svarupa-lakshana)

of bhakti?

 

Babaji: By the order of Sriman Mahaprabhu, Sri Rupa Gosvami

has described the intrinsic characteristics of bhakti in Sri Bhaktirasamrita-

sindhu (1.1.11) as follows:

 

anyabhilashita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavritam

anukulyena krishnanu-silanam bhaktir uttama

 

Uttama-bhakti, pure devotional service, is the cultivation

of activities that are meant exclusively for the benefit of

Sri Krishna, in other words, the uninterrupted flow of service

to Sri Krishna, performed through all endeavors of body,

mind, and speech, and through expression of various spiritual

sentiments (bhavas). It is not covered by jnana (knowledge

of nirvisesha-brahma, aimed at impersonal liberation)

and karma (reward-seeking activity), yoga or austerities; and

it is completely free from all desires other than the aspiration

to bring happiness to Sri Krishna.

 

This sutra very clearly describes both the svarupa-lakshana (intrinsic

characteristics) and the tatastha-lakshana (extrinsic symptoms)

of bhakti. The word uttama-bhakti refers to pure devotional

service. Devotional service mixed with fruitive activity (karma450

misra bhakti) and devotional service mixed with speculative knowledge

(jnana-misra bhakti) are not pure devotional service. The aim

of devotional service mixed with fruitive activity (karma-misra

bhakti) is sense gratification, and the aim of devotional service

mixed with speculative knowledge (jnana-misra bhakti) is liberation.

Only such devotional service free from any trace of desire

for fruitive results or liberation is uttama-bhakti (pure devotional

service).

 

The fruit of bhakti is prema. The svarupa-lakshana of bhakti is endeavors

favorable for Krishna (krishnanusilanam) performed with body,

mind and speech, and loving attitude of mind (pritimaya-manasa).

Such endeavors (ceshta) and spiritual sentiments (bhavas) are both

favorable (anukulya) and constantly dynamic. By the mercy of

Krishna and His bhaktas, when the special function of the internal

energy of Bhagavan manifests upon the jiva’s own spiritual strength,

then the true form (svarupa) of bhakti takes birth.

 

In the present state, the jiva’s body, mind and speech are all

materially afflicted. When the jiva directs them by his own discrimination,

the result is only dry speculation and renunciation,

and the true nature of bhakti does not manifest through them.

However, when Krishna’s svarupa-sakti becomes active in the jiva’s

body, mind and speech, the nature of pure bhakti immediately

becomes manifest. The ultimate aim of all spiritual activities is Sri

Krishna, and that is why real devotional activity must be favorable

towards Krishna. Endeavors performed for realization of brahma and

Paramatma are not accepted as pure bhakti. Rather, they are aspects

of speculative knowledge (jnana) and fruitive activities (karma)

respectively. There are two types of endeavors: those that are

favorable, and those that are unfavorable. Only favorable activities

are considered to be devotional service.

 

The word anukulyena means the tendency to be favorably disposed

towards Krishna. This tendency has some connection with

the material world during the period of devotional practice

(sadhana-kala), but in the liberated stage (siddha-kala) it is utterly

pure, free from any connection with the material world. The characteristics

of bhakti are the same in both these stages. Therefore,

the intrinsic characteristics of bhakti are endeavors for the cultivation

of Krishna consciousness performed with favorable sentiments.

While we are discussing the intrinsic characteristics (svarupalakshana)

of bhakti, it is also necessary to describe its extrinsic characteristics

(tatastha-lakshana). Srila Rupa Gosvami has explained

that there are two tatastha-lakshana. The first is having no other

desires, and the second is freedom from the covering of jnana,

karma and other such endeavors. Any ambition other than the desire

for progress in bhakti goes against bhakti, and comes in the

category of other desires. ***Jnana, karma, yoga and renunciation are

said to be antagonistic to bhakti when they are strong enough to

cover the heart*** Therefore, pure bhakti may be described as the

cultivation of activities that are favorably disposed to Sri Krishna,

free from both the above antagonistic characteristics....

 

taken from Jaiva Dharma by Bhaktivinoda

[ranjeetmore]

 

Ranjeet understanding theoretically the goal of Gaudiya Vaisnavism is not that difficult (for me), but some need to be practical in day to day life. For example not all are rasika bhaktas, but instead (personally speaking) have devotion pervaded by yoga and jnana. These samskaras cover my heart and are well founded in the mind.

 

So my questioning is this...if we are at a lower station than the ideal of suddha-bhakti, can jnana-misra-bhakti be applied as a follower of Sri Caitanya? .

 

Prabhuji,plz understand one thing:

 

All sadhana-siddha prema bhaktas or those who have attained the causeless mercy of Svarupa shakti i.e. Prema bhakti,were,at some point of time,exactly like us.

It is INEVITABLE for thoughts of sensual pleasures(bhukti) and attachment/fascination towards yoga,etc.

BUT this is ONLY DUE TO inexperience of even one drop of prema-rasa or the bliss obtained from loving remembrance of the lord.

 

This is the precise reason why we have to ATTACH our MINDS to Sri Krsna and His various features in the FIRST PLACE.

ATTACHING the mind will only come from PRACTISING- ATTACHING OF THE MIND.

 

You can of course use pranayama,asana....for pranayama/yogic exercises help you to concentrate your mind on a particular thing

Who cares about what we use as a means to attach our minds to Shyamasundara ??

Arjuna says in the gita,"Janardana,the mind is swifter than the wind...uncontrollable it is."

 

Due to its massive instability,we feel we can never achieve the state where we constantly think about the lord.

The only solution to this is : Practise.

You've to LITERALLY remove the mind from other areas and DIRECT IT towards the Lord.

The mind is,from eternal time,attached to FORM,NAMES,SMELL,TOUCH.

It always thinks about these things.

So this is the reason why you need to do Rupa dhyana(loving meditation on form,Smell,Names,Pastimes,etc).Only kirtana is not helpful at this stage.

Unless your mind gets attached to the lord's form,pastimes,there is EVERY CHANCE that sankirtana will sound boring and material.

 

I know i may be getting off track but what i want to conclude is that :

EVERY single sadhaka FEELS the same,"Why i cannot feel what the pure devotees feel eventhough i chant the same ?"

The difference is only this : Those pure devotees(those who've yet not attained prema bhakti but are on the stage of anuraga/attachment.)

are SO attached with their MINDS to the lord,that Kirtan gives them bliss without fail.This is the inconcievable work of svarupa shakti.As and how you get your mind attached to the Lord,Svarupa Shakti,immediately goes on manifesting in proportion to the attachment.

Here a question may arise,"Why can't we get Svarupa shakti if She is causeless ?"

 

Maharajji says,"If Bhagavan were to bestow His mercy in the form of Svarupa Shakti in the sadhaka's heart,he would only burst to Smithreens.His heart is limited.It cannot take the infinity,divinity and the sheer Ananda/rasa.An ordinary human being will faint with the fragrance of even a deva.The fragrance is SO blissful.AND this is BHAGAVAN WE"RE TALKIN ABOUT.Therefore the inevitable NEED to purify the heart through Attachment of it to Bhagavan."

 

So it is generally forbidden to include desire for jnana,Mukti,bhukti,etc.

But this is exactly like Renunciation.Vaishnava Acharyas never say,you become a renunciate and then do bhakti.They know that you do sadhana bhakti and you automatically experience renunciation.

 

Remember,all our worries that we'll never become like Pure devotees,rasiks etc,is due to our lack of attachment of MIND.Practising alone will make you advance.There is no other way.

 

 

 

Ofcourse I know Ranjeet that all our teachers speak of the 'pure bhakti'. But for me it is not yet possible. Whereas jnana-merging consciousness and self integration-yoga seems closer to attainment (it is tangible experience). .

 

SEE ?

 

Exactly.

 

WE HAVE NO TANGIBLE EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER.

Tangible experience...by this we(atleast i) generally mean,

"The ecstatic symptoms of crying,trembling,laughing,etc."

 

Prabhuji,this is only due to sheer lack of smarana/rupa dhyana.

 

Mahaprabhuji says,"Only a person who thinks himself meaner than a straw in the street is able to chant continuously."

 

Prabhuji,this is possible ONLY and ONLY when you repeatedly FEEL in the mind that ,"I'm such a rascal.Bhagavan is right here,in my heart and i'm doing such nonsense."

 

Maharajji always says,"Aap log FEEL hi nahi karte.Array,Bhagavan mere andar baithe hai,note kar rahe hai.YE realisation nahi hai."

 

"You people don't have this FEELING that Oh,Bhagavan is seated inside me.He's noting down everything i'm thinking."

Constant realisation of such a kind keeps the sadhaka away from kusanga.

This is a helper in the sadhana that you do 2-3 hrs a day i.e. proper Rupa dhyana on the Lord.

 

This only comes by practising.

 

Radhe Radhe

[kaisersose]

So what is "Brahm's" form exactly?

 

Since you are copy-pasting volumes on the topic, a simple description of this form would be of help.

 

If you say it is a human form, then there are a number of natural followup questions.

 

1) What kind of human - Asian, South Asian, Caucasian etc.

2) Since a human looks different at different ages, what age is the human form of Brahm?

3) Why does he have a human form with eyes and nose? We have them because we need them. Why does Brahm need a nose?

4) Would it not be more logical to assume that man gave a human form to God, instead?

 

If it is any other form - like a square block, a round ball or an indescribable shape, then please explain how this form is better than formless.

 

Thanks & Cheers

[raghu]

1. Why does it need to be any of those? Could the form of Brahman not be unique to Brahman? Why must the form of Brahman conform to a specific, known, racial type?

 

2. Brahman is ageless. As far as what age Brahman *appears* to be, I'm not aware of any source specifically quantifying this.

 

3. Why not? Why should a personal God be devoid of senses? Why should the experience of senses and sense objects be absent in the spiritual realm?

 

4. Perhaps, but how many blue, four-armed people do you see walking around in India? Or anywhere else, for that matter? If the form of Brahman was invented by human imagination, wouldn't it be logical to presuppose that Brahman was given the form of a two-armed, brown-skinned, Indian male (i.e. the form of the people who supposedly invented Brahman's form)?

[bhaktajan]

So what is "Brahm's" form exactly? ... like a square block, a round ball or an indescribable shape, then please explain --keiserose

 

...........................................................

 

 

"Absolute Nature"

 

Is Zero absolute?

Is "1+1=2" absolute?

Is your heterosexuality absolute?

Is the identity of your real father absolute?

Is not a "round" wheel the ideal definitive & absolute definition of a wheel's shape?

Is not a "Square 90 degree" shaped stone the ideal definitive & absolute definition of a building Block for a monumental ediface?

..........................................................

Are not the 8,400,000 species of creatures absolute?

 

Does the word/concept "Absolute" have the intergrity to exists as a word/Concept?

 

Do laws on nature and/or man-made-laws have no authority over you, absolutely?

 

Do not you see the comrades of living entities passing the time in all sorts of abominable circumstanses [ie: via Animal Kingdom TV Documentaries]?

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Don't you see that you are expressing "the Frog-in-the-well" mentality?

Don't you see that you are expressing the opinion that we are all abunch of void dreams talking to eachother about other's dreaming--and how we should wake up to the fact that we are dreaming that there is an absolute reason for 'Reasoning'?

[ranjeetmore]

 

So what is "Brahm's" form exactly?

 

Since you are copy-pasting volumes on the topic, a simple description of this form would be of help.

 

If you say it is a human form, then there are a number of natural followup questions.

 

1) What kind of human - Asian, South Asian, Caucasian etc.

2) Since a human looks different at different ages, what age is the human form of Brahm?

3) Why does he have a human form with eyes and nose? We have them because we need them. Why does Brahm need a nose?

4) Would it not be more logical to assume that man gave a human form to God, instead?

 

If it is any other form - like a square block, a round ball or an indescribable shape, then please explain how this form is better than formless.

 

Thanks & Cheers

 

Each and every person/living entity wants the best in everything.

 

A diseased person,if well to do,will go to a specialist in America for treatment,etc.

 

Similarly,in the spiritual affairs,4 top personalities are accepted.Intelligent opinion accepts 2 more, i.e. 6 in total.

 

Adi Jagadguru Shankaracharya.

Sri Ramanujacharya

Sri Nimbarkacharya

Sri Madhvacharya

Sri Vallabhacharya

 

AND

Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu.

 

Now barring some confusing texts of Sri Shankaracharya,all the elements in above list ACCEPT Sri Krsna/Sri Vishnu tattva as the eternal Saguna Form of Brahm.

 

So,as far as your question goes,there is only one solution:

Find another forum where they discuss the primitive idea regarding the Form of a personal God.

Generally,such forums are founded upon speculation.So probably your question will be hailed as an 'intelligent' on there.

PROBABLY....I'm not so sure...

[ranjeetmore]

 

So what is "Brahm's" form exactly?

 

Since you are copy-pasting volumes on the topic, a simple description of this form would be of help.

 

If you say it is a human form, then there are a number of natural followup questions.

 

1) What kind of human - Asian, South Asian, Caucasian etc.

2) Since a human looks different at different ages, what age is the human form of Brahm?

3) Why does he have a human form with eyes and nose? We have them because we need them. Why does Brahm need a nose?

4) Would it not be more logical to assume that man gave a human form to God, instead?

 

If it is any other form - like a square block, a round ball or an indescribable shape, then please explain how this form is better than formless.

 

Thanks & Cheers

 

Each and every person/living entity wants the best in everything.

 

A diseased person,if well to do,will go to a specialist in America for treatment,etc.

 

Similarly,in the spiritual affairs,4 top personalities are accepted.Intelligent opinion accepts 2 more, i.e. 6 in total.

 

Adi Jagadguru Shankaracharya.

Sri Ramanujacharya

Sri Nimbarkacharya

Sri Madhvacharya

Sri Vallabhacharya

 

AND

Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu.

 

Now barring some confusing texts of Sri Shankaracharya,all the elements in above list ACCEPT Sri Krsna/Sri Vishnu tattva as the eternal Saguna Form of Brahm.

 

So,as far as your question goes,there is only one solution:

Find another forum where they discuss the primitive ideas regarding the Form of a personal God.

Generally,such forums are founded upon speculation.So probably your question will be hailed as an 'intelligent' one there.

PROBABLY....I'm not so sure...

[ranjeetmore]

Good point,Bhaktajan and raghu.

[kaisersose]

 

Now barring some confusing texts of Sri Shankaracharya,all the elements in above list ACCEPT Sri Krsna/Sri Vishnu tattva as the eternal Saguna Form of Brahm.

 

The question was, what is this form? Is it a human form or some other known shape or is it unknown?

 

Can you please answer that?

 

Thanks