Dinosaurs and God?

[Lotusflower]

Fact: No human remains older then 10,000 years ever been found,

Fact: Dinosaurs remains millions (25) have been found.

 

Why is that? Anybody been able to answer?

[kaisersose]

 

Fact: No human remains older then 10,000 years ever been found,

Fact: Dinosaurs remains millions (25) have been found.

 

Why is that? Anybody been able to answer?

 

Because dinosaurs lived on the planet earlier than humans? And it should be 65 million years ago - not 25 million.

 

And what does paleontological evidence of dinosaurs -or lack thereof - have anything to do with God?

 

Cheers

[Lotusflower]

 

Because dinosaurs lived on the planet earlier than humans? And it should be 65 million years ago - not 25 million.

 

And what does paleontological evidence of dinosaurs -or lack thereof - have anything to do with God?

 

Cheers

 

WHat are you ross from friends?

 

Nah, but amazing how no human remains older then dinos or closer to the years they were found etc, were found. Maybe nothing to do with God, but why 'No human remains found dating 25 million years or something'?

 

Or maybe the carbon dating on the dinos is wrong? Or the bones of animals maybe age differently to humans.

[primate]

The oldest fossil remains of upright walking (bipedal) hominoids are about 4 million years old (Australopithecus afarensis). The earliest remains of modern humans (homo sapiens) are 195,000 years old. The entire human population appears to have been nearly wiped out about 70,000 years ago, apparently as the result of a super volcanic event that triggered a volcanic winter. The number of humans may have shrunk as low as 2,000 before numbers began to expand again. Dinosaurs lived hundreds of millions of years ago and became completely extinct about 66 million years ago, long before the first hominoids appeared.

[Kulapavana]

Rāmānujā has also summed up that according to Mĩmāmsa (Vedic hermeneutics) in order for any Scriptural Text to be considered as authoritative it must fulfil certain conditions;

It must conform to reality as we experience it.

It must be logical and not contradict any of the other two other means of knowledge such as perception and inference.

The content of the text must be internally consistent.

The knowledge presented in the text must have a practical application.

And it is this practical application which is the true test of the Truth of Scripture.

[Kulapavana]

It is all in how we interpret these texts. Science certainly has it's limitations, but we should be very cautious to depart from the scientific method of acquiring knowledge. Dinosaurs were certainly present on Earth at some time.

[Gaea]

 

Fact: No human remains older then 10,000 years ever been found,

Fact: Dinosaurs remains millions (25) have been found.

 

Why is that? Anybody been able to answer?

 

Google "Forbidden Archaeology".

 

There's lots out there that the narrow scientific view choses to ignore.

[Lotusflower]

so nobody has the answer?

[Gaea]

 

so nobody has the answer?

 

well no, no one can say for certain. You can't say for certain what you were doing at precisely 10:17 365 days ago, what to speak of the world 65 millions years ago

 

But what does it matter?

 

This is the crunch question for the "modern" devotee:

Will you still have any faith in God if you were given incontrovertible proof that the current scientific view of history is correct, and the Puranic view isn't?

[Lotusflower]

 

But what does it matter?

yeah it doesn't matter. I am sorry, forgive me.

 

 

 

This is the crunch question for the "modern" devotee:

Will you still have any faith in God if you were given incontrovertible proof that the current scientific view of history is correct, and the Puranic view isn't?

 

Well, there should be some information on why no human bones are found that are dated back to when dinosaurs were here.

[Kulapavana]

Some devotees think that in previous ages people lived side by side with dinosaurs, others think that perhaps humans indeed showed up on Earth only some 2 million years ago as the science suggests. It is a matter of interpretation of the shastric record.

[Kulapavana]

Bhaktivinoda went as far as to suggest that in Ramayana the Vanaras were actually just the dark skinned people of South India. He was trying to reconcile the shastras with a rational and scientific world view. If he did not have a problem with such rationalizalization, why should you worry about lack of human fossils in the age of dinosaurs?

[Lotusflower]

 

Bhaktivinoda went as far as to suggest that in Ramayana the Vanaras were actually just the dark skinned people of South India. He was trying to reconcile the shastras with a rational and scientific world view.

In that case Dinosaurs are light-skinned people from Pakistain.

 

I did do a google, and most people seem to think the same. Never heard of this before. Maybe because Vanars were led my Hanuman.

 

 

If he did not have a problem with such rationalizalization, why should you worry about lack of human fossils in the age of dinosaurs?

 

well. Okay lets look at it another way, what is the date at which this particular planet was created by Brahma?

[kaisersose]

 

In that case Dinosaurs are light-skinned people from Pakistain.

 

I did do a google, and most people seem to think the same. Never heard of this before. Maybe because Vanars were led my Hanuman.

 

 

well. Okay lets look at it another way, what is the date at which this particular planet was created by Brahma?

 

The mistake you are making is, you are taking Puranic stories and trying to align them with the real world. It does not work. You cannot have both, so pick one of these.

 

1) Brahma created the earth, man was existing on the planet from day #1 and scientific evidence does not matter.

 

2) Modern Man has been around on the planet only for 200000 years. Purana stories are allegorical and are not to be interpreted literally.

 

Option #2 is not atheistic, by the way.

 

Cheers

[Lotusflower]

 

The mistake you are making is, you are taking Puranic stories and trying to align them with the real world. It does not work. You cannot have both, so pick one of these.

 

1) Brahma created the earth, man was existing on the planet from day #1 and scientific evidence does not matter.

 

2) Modern Man has been around on the planet only for 200000 years. Purana stories are allegorical and are not to be interpreted literally.

 

Option #2 is not atheistic, by the way.

 

Cheers

 

Books : Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 4: "The Creation of the Fourth Order" : SB 4.30: The Activities of the Pracetas : SB 4.30.49 : PURPORT :

The word jagad-aṇḍa-nātha means Lord Brahmā. There are innumerable jagad-aṇḍa-nātha Brahmās, and thus we can calculate the many Manus. The present age is under the control of Vaivasvata Manu. Each Manu lives 4,320,000 years multiplied by 71. The present Manu has already lived for 4,320,000 years multiplied by 28. All these long life-spans are ultimately ended by the laws of material nature. The controversy of the Dakṣa-yajsha took place in the Svāyambhuva manvantara period. As a result, Dakṣa was punished by Lord Śiva, but by virtue of his prayers to Lord Śiva he became eligible to regain his former opulence. According to Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Dakṣa underwent severe penances up to the fifth manvantara. Thus at the beginning of the sixth manvantara, known as the Cākṣuṣa manvantara, Dakṣa regained his former opulence by the blessings of Lord Śiva.

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Pasted from www.prabhupadabooks.com (very good search facility!).

 

I'm not a mathmetician, but:4,320,000 years multiplied by 28. is 120 960 000 (120 Million)

 

 

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Books : Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 6: "Prescribed Duties for Mankind" : SB 6.10: The Battle Between the Demigods and Vrtrasura : SB 6.10.16 : PURPORT :

The words prathame yuge mean “in the beginning of the first millennium,” that is to say, in the beginning of the Vaivasvata manvantara. In one day of Brahmā there are fourteen Manus, who each live for seventy-one millenniums. The four yugas—Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara and Kali—constitute one millennium. We are presently in the manvantara of Vaivasvata Manu, who is mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā (imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam/ vivasvān manave prāha [bg. 4.1]). We are now in the twenty-eighth millennium of Vaivasvata Manu, but this fight took place in the beginning of Vaivasvata Manu’s first millennium. One can historically calculate how long ago the battle took place. Since each millennium consists of 4,300,000 years and we are now in the twenty-eighth millennium, some 120,400,000 years have passed since the battle took place on the bank of the River Narmadā.

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Books : Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 3: "The Status Quo" : SB 3.14: Pregnancy of Diti in the Evening : SB 3.14.2 : PURPORT :

As referred to previously, the boar incarnation was manifested in two millenniums—namely Svāyambhuva and Cākṣuṣa. In both millenniums there was a boar incarnation of the Lord, but in the Svāyambhuva millennium He lifted the earth from within the water of the universe, whereas in the Cākṣuṣa millennium He killed the first demon, Hiraṇyākṣa. In the Svāyambhuva millennium He assumed the color white, and in the Cākṣuṣa millennium He assumed the color red. Vidura had already heard about one of them, and he proposed to hear about the other. The two different boar incarnations described are the one Supreme Personality of Godhead.

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Evidence of the age of the earth, and humans existing, even in 'age' of dinos/:eek2:

[Narasingh]

Most stories in the Puranas also incorporated final rites for dead human bodies. There are many Asian cultures where the body is destroyed after life leaves. I am not saying this is authoritative; I'm sure there is capacity for this to not have been the case 100%. However, dinosaur remains have not been 100% consistent either and scientists are constantly finding newer information even displacing previously accepted theories. The Puranas also point to a personal embodied Brahma, Chandra, Indra etc. which will naturally lead toward a discussion of what the term "embodied" infers Puranically. I've heard before, that dinosaurs were a product from the previous Kali Yuga (attributed to Prabhupada). An interesting concept. Humans have constantly mysticized their existence and perform rites (samskars) for birth, death and the in-between. So far we have yet to acquire a "missing link" for our own evolution.

 

On another note, from "The Bhagavata, Its Philosophy, Its Ethics and Its Theology":

There are 84 divisions of the hell itself, some more dreadful than the one which Milton has described in his "Paradise Lost." These are certainly poetical and were originally created by the rulers of the country in order to check evil deeds of the ignorant people, who are not able to understand the conclusions of philosophy. The religion of the Bhagavata is free from such a poetry. Indeed, in some of the chapters we meet with descriptions of these hells and heavens, and accounts of curious tales, but we have been warned somewhere in the book, not to accept them as real facts, but as inventions to overawe the wicked and to improve the simple and the ignorant. the Bhagavata, certainly tells us of a state of reward and punishment in future according to deeds in our present situation. All poetic inventions, besides this spiritual fact, have been described as statements borrowed from other works in the way of preservation of old traditions in the book which superseded them and put an end to the necessity of their storage. If the whole stock of Hindu Theological works which preceded the Bhagavata were burnt like the Alexandrian Library and the sacred Bhagavata preserved as it is, not a part of the philosophy of the Hindus except that of the atheistic sects, would be lost. The Bhagavata therefore, may be styled both as a religious work and a compendium of all Hindu history and philosophy.

[Lotusflower]

 

Most stories in the Puranas also incorporated final rites for dead human bodies. There are many Asian cultures where the body is destroyed after life leaves. I am not saying this is authoritative; I'm sure there is capacity for this to not have been the case 100%. However, dinosaur remains have not been 100% consistent either and scientists are constantly finding newer information even displacing previously accepted theories. The Puranas also point to a personal embodied Brahma, Chandra, Indra etc. which will naturally lead toward a discussion of what the term "embodied" infers Puranically.

So your saying people used to burn bodies so no remains can be found?

 

 

I've heard before, that dinosaurs were a product from the previous Kali Yuga (attributed to Prabhupada).:

Yes, Prabhupada said the 'birds' came from other planets, to stay here and then died. Maybe that could answer why their lifespan is so high (people on higher planet).

[Narasingh]

Its a possibility, although not a probability. Also in the essay, The Bhagavata,

The Bhagavata believes that the spirit of nature is the truth in nature and is the only practical part of it."

[Kulapavana]

 

well. Okay lets look at it another way, what is the date at which this particular planet was created by Brahma?

 

There is no such direct information in the Puranas. But one could say that since we are half way through Lord Brahma's day (which is about 4.32 billion years) and since our earthly world exists only during his day, the Earth is at least 2 billion years old. That is a lot closer to the scientific theories than what the Bible says (less than 7000 years).

[primate]

There is not a single piece of hard evidence for the thesis that anatomically modern humans lived in ancient times, say millions or even billions of years ago. And Carbon 14 tests of bones that were supposedly found in such ancient geological strata, consistently come up with much younger dates. Moreover, the most compelling very hard evidence in favor of standard evolution theory is that we share 99% of our genetic makeup with Chimpanzees.

 

Bhagavata Purana states that humans have lived on earth for a period of time called the Day of Brahma (i.e., 4.32 billion years, or a thousand yuga cycles, where each yuga cycle lasts 12,000 years of the gods and each year of the gods equals 360 earth years). Could it be that this mustn't be taken literally? Scripture may then simply refer to our ancient evolutionary lineage, starting with our microbial ancestors that lived a few billion years ago.

[Lotusflower]

 

There is no such direct information in the Puranas. But one could say that since we are half way through Lord Brahma's day (which is about 4.32 billion years) and since our earthly world exists only during his day, the Earth is at least 2 billion years old. That is a lot closer to the scientific theories than what the Bible says (less than 7000 years).

 

So everything is destoryed during Lord Brahmas night? So it cycles? Is when the night happens things are destroyed? How long is the day and night?

[Lotusflower]

 

Bhagavata Purana states that humans have lived on earth for a period of time called the Day of Brahma (i.e., 4.32 billion years, or a thousand yuga cycles, where each yuga cycle lasts 12,000 years of the gods and each year of the gods equals 360 earth years). Could it be that this mustn't be taken literally? Scripture may then simply refer to our ancient evolutionary lineage, starting with our microbial ancestors that lived a few billion years ago.

 

 

Yes, I have read this. But according to kulapava prabhu theres a night of brahma, included in this. I always thought night was within the 311 trillion years Lord Brahma lived in? Maybe i need to read again! (i forgot about how complicated this can get)

[kaisersose]

 

There is not a single piece of hard evidence for the thesis that anatomically modern humans lived in ancient times, say millions or even billions of years ago... And Carbon 14 tests of bones that were supposedly found in such ancient geological strata, consistently come up with much younger dates. Moreover, the most compelling very hard evidence in favor of standard evolution theory is that we share 99% of our genetic makeup with Chimpanzees.

 

Bhagavata Purana states that humans have lived on earth for a period of time called the Day of Brahma (i.e., 4.32 billion years, or a thousand yuga cycles, where each yuga cycle lasts 12,000 years of the gods and each year of the gods equals 360 earth years). Could it be that this mustn't be taken literally?

 

In my opinion, the Purana authors (and Bible authors too) were unaware of the existence of Dinosaurs and Pterosaurs. Dinosaur discoveries have not been very common in the Indian Sub-continent.

 

On the other hand, China and Europe had a lot more fossil discoveries. The Chinese thought they were dragon bones, Europeans thought they were from some giant species which was killed during the flood, etc.

 

Cheers

[gHari]

No human fossils back then? Where you been digging?

[primate]

 

In my opinion, the Purana authors (and Bible authors too) were unaware of the existence of Dinosaurs and Pterosaurs. Dinosaur discoveries have not been very common in the Indian Sub-continent.

 

On the other hand, China and Europe had a lot more fossil discoveries. The Chinese thought they were dragon bones, Europeans thought they were from some giant species which was killed during the flood, etc.

 

 

Exactly. The Purana authors obviously didn’t know about evolution theory. But somehow they may have been aware of the fact that life began on earth 2 billion years ago. Without a theory of evolution, however, they had to assume that human life began 2 billion years ago. Their source of information apparently didn’t ‘explain’ all the specifics in terms of genetics and early microbial life that gradually evolved into human life over a period of 2 billion years. Or maybe it did explain all this, but the authors didn’t understand it.