Reviving the Soma ritual

[Soma Juice]

The mystery of the soma plant is a subject that intrigues me much. The exact identifaction has never been found, but i think it is safe to say that it had great spiritual value in its intoxicating effect.

But the plant symbiosis has been long lost and the soma rituals are gone.

This kind of saddens me because i belive we can learn alot from these sacred plants if restore the link between us and them, a link that has brought great spirituality to mankind.

The interesting is that cermonies with religious use of hallucinogenic plants is seen all over the world.

South America have widespread use of many diffrent plants, north american indians uses the mescaline containing cacti peyote, traces of plant use have been found allmost all over the world but the tradition is sadly weakened alot worldwide by the invasion of western culture and what that brings with it.

We can conclude that plants have been used for a tool to communicate with the spirit world/higher levels of counciousness with great succes. And many lines can be drawn between the level of counciousness the shamans who ingest these reach and the levels great saints and enlightned masters have reached, the shamans of the amazon rainforest is is thought by the old shamans knowledge of the plants and the spirits of the forest, they shamans have powers like telepathy and healing powers as it is also seen among our hindu saints.

 

The link below contains the story of a psylocibin mushrooms cermony with the great shaman Maria Sabina.

www csp org/nicholas/A27.html

And it seems like the early vedic religion also thought these types of plants might have played an important role in shaping the vedic tradition, but due to unkown factors and the strict secrecy the soma plant was treatet with the knowledge is lost in india.

 

But do you accept plant use a way to evovle spiritualy? do you think that intoxication is a valid form of worship?

 

This zen preist have some interesting stuff to say on the subject:

www maps org/news-letter/v11n2/11243pal.html

[bija]

It is a very interesting subject matter. I am sure you have read a little Stanislav Grof. He also makes the link between vedic culture and shamanism (entho-botany), considering the non-ordinary states of consciousness (similarities).

 

Research by these cutting edge scientists is of great importance in my opinion. With possible treatment of various diseases, and psycho-spiritual emergence problems.

 

If modern society could develop a new ritual, then I can see a very important use (amongst society) for sacred plants. Rather than the ritual of sense-gratification and intoxication. It can be seen in Brazil that ayahuasca churches have very spiritual members, who do not drink or use drugs. The ayahuasca brew is non addictive, and holds great spiritual value for its users.

 

I would say that non-ordinary states of consciousness hold a vital role for the future well being of this planet! These states can be very transformative and healing. Whether the states can be induced by either breathing work, yoga, or plant/medicine rituals...may depend on societies acceptance and understanding of the new ritual that it chooses.

[primate]

 

... The ayahuasca brew is non addictive, and holds great spiritual value for its users ...

 

How can something that "holds great spritual value" be non addictive?

[bija]

That's right primate, what are its users finding out about themselves, that draws them back?

 

In ancient Greece there was elaborate rituals and secret initiations founded around the psychotropic...with followers in the thousands;).

 

The same with intense yoga practice and non-ordinary states, once tasted no come down. 'Stay high forever' was an early motto of the Krsna's in the 60's.

 

As you know in your scientific research Primate, once the particle realizes its function in a greater vision...(there is no reversal). It seems to be a factor in consciousness and evolution... The greater vision may even be myth, founded upon archetypes and other structures revealed in trance.

 

Have non-ordinary states of awareness been a 'key factor' in man's evolution? And move toward wholeness? I think so..

[kaisersose]

With due respect to all,

It is highly probable that the intoxicating Rig-vedic (and Persian Avesta too) Soma was Cannabis or some such other psychedelic source. Makes sense, as "hallucinogens do not merely amplify familiar states of mind, but rather induce experiences that are qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness" says Wikipedia. Obviously we tend to give these hallucinations a religious angle and interpret them as advanced states of the mind.

And if the Soma was indeed Cannabis, then there need be no concern about having lost it. It is alive and well and continues to give people "elevated" experiences to this day.

3500 years ago, with no electricity, tourism, etc., Rig-vedic people had very few options to escape boredom and the Soma being one of them, would have been highly revered.

Cheers

[bija]

 

Obviously we tend to give these hallucinations a religious angle and interpret them as advanced states of the mind. by kaisersose

Exactly. The scientific community see a major link in these states and religious mystical tradition (and the experience involved).

 

This opens up a whole new scope for research, discussion, and finding.

 

 

'It is so important for us to understand consciousness. It is just as important to place psychedelic drugs in general, and DMT in particular, into a personal and cultural matrix where we do the most good, and the least harm. In such a wide open area of inquiry, it is best that we reject no ideas until we actually disprove them. It is in the interest of enlarging the discussion about psychedelic drugs that I've written The Spirit Molecule.'

http://www.rickstrassman.com/

[theist]

The soma drink was a combination of a plant called som, cannabis and poppy seed.

 

Som is still used today in the the area around the Afghan and Pakistani border. It is a common drink there even today.This same plant is call Ma Huang in China. The active ingredient is ephedra.

 

Just learned this last week from a PBS special called The Story of India.

 

 

http://www.pbs.org/thestoryofindia/

[Amlesh]

No need of any psychedelic stuffs for me.. I'm always on the high-fly.

[theist]

 

No need of any psychedelic stuffs for me.. I'm always on the high-fly.

 

 

Yeah me either Amlesh. Been there, done that. Once one comes chanting Hare Krishna such things are simply going backward.

[sambya1]

i think linking hallucinogenic experiences with high levels of conciousness would make the entire spiritual tradition of india shallow and meaningless.

 

while there is no denying that hallucinogenic substances and other occult practices gave rise to or was intertwined with numerous primitive religions , that was not the case with vedic cultures. there might be clear references regaurding their widespread use but it was seperate from the spiritual depths reached by the vedic seers . vedic religion is definately not a typical primitive religion as prevailing at other parts of the world at that time .

 

hallucinogenic substances actually obscures our consciousness giving rise to odd external symptoms . but spiritual realization cleanses our consiousness but often have similar external symptoms . numerous sadhaks were unable to walk properly out of deep god intoxication . in all such cases the apparent external symptoms would be same as of a liqour intoxicated man. seeing this it is all very natural for any western observer to draw such wierd parrellels between the two. the might look similar but poles apart actually.

[bija]

 

vedic religion is definately not a typical primitive religion as prevailing at other parts of the world at that time . by sambhya

This what I question. The word primitive has connotations of ethno-centric bias.

 

There is no doubt that shamanic traditions have different perceptions and goals than much of vedanta, but there is definite similarity in the non-ordinary states of consciousness. Whether one is advanced and the other primitive is highly debatable.

 

I would suggest one of the greatest benefits from encountering non-ordinary states is the after effect. That leads to a much broader vision and knowledge, and from that wholeness and healing. This is the goal of shamanic healing...and in some way the goal of non-dual vedanta.

[Kulapavana]

 

The soma drink was a combination of a plant called som, cannabis and poppy seed.

 

Som is still used today in the the area around the Afghan and Pakistani border. It is a common drink there even today.This same plant is call Ma Huang in China. The active ingredient is ephedra.

 

Just learned this last week from a PBS special called The Story of India.

 

 

http://www.pbs.org/thestoryofindia/

 

I doubt that. Soma plant was a very woody plant, requiring grinding in stone vessels in order to process it. Vedas are full of references to this grinding process. There are also references in the Vedas to the soma plant going extinct in the age of Kali.

 

Cannabis was used since ancient times by the Shivaites and Tantrics and was very well known, yet it was never described as soma plant.

 

Poppy seeds have zero hallucinogenic power.

[Kulapavana]

Different hallucinogenic plants take you to different astral worlds. Any shaman will tell you that. Soma used to take people to the higher world, enabling them to visit heavenly planets in their astral body. That gateway is closed in this age of Kali.

 

Many vedic texts are records of shamanic journeys into other worlds.

[bija]

Some have suggested soma was made from Argyreia nervosa - bastantri (Sanskrit), native to India. If the soma was grinded then this makes sense as this seed is often ground.

 

Possibly the soma was a blend of various ingredients that were compliments, as is common practice in shamanism and spiritism.

 

 

Many vedic texts are records of shamanic journeys into other worlds.

by kula

Soma must be a very old tradition, predating later vedantic thought? Many of the indigenous cultures utilized sacred plants and discovered their tradition. Would it be too bold to suggest the same for vedanta's roots?

 

*important to note - non-ordinary states are not dependant upon plants. The yoga tradition is an example of this. Also the shaman may enter trance without the plant, once the knowledge of the plant spirit is known.

[Soma Juice]

 

With due respect to all,

It is highly probable that the intoxicating Rig-vedic (and Persian Avesta too) Soma was Cannabis or some such other psychedelic source. Makes sense, as "hallucinogens do not merely amplify familiar states of mind, but rather induce experiences that are qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness" says Wikipedia. Obviously we tend to give these hallucinations a religious angle and interpret them as advanced states of the mind.

And if the Soma was indeed Cannabis, then there need be no concern about having lost it. It is alive and well and continues to give people "elevated" experiences to this day.

3500 years ago, with no electricity, tourism, etc., Rig-vedic people had very few options to escape boredom and the Soma being one of them, would have been highly revered.

Cheers

many evidences from the rig veda and from research says it is not cannabis at least not alone, the soma plant was pressed and and a milky substance was extractet. It would be a very not effecient way to coonsume cannabis.

It is kind of stupid saying what the rig-vedic people did was out of boredom. Do you think poeple dont have anything to do with out electricity and tourism? and if you study the rig-veda you will see the great spiritual value the plant is praised for

[Kulapavana]

 

Some have suggested soma was made from Argyreia nervosa - bastantri (Sanskrit), native to India. If the soma was grinded then this makes sense as this seed is often ground.

 

Possibly the soma was a blend of various ingredients that were compliments, as is common practice in shamanism and spiritism.

 

 

Soma must be a very old tradition, predating later vedantic thought? Many of the indigenous cultures utilized sacred plants and discovered their tradition. Would it be too bold to suggest the same for vedanta's roots?

 

 

The power of the soma juice was clearly unlike any herb known to us today and the vedic passages describing it's extinction make perfect sense to me. That plant was rare even in the vedic times and clearly relates to a single species, at one time brought to earth from heavenly planets. Maybe later there were attempts to substitute soma with other stuff, but it clearly was not producing the same results. Arurveda was full of various herbal preparations, but none of them were even close to soma characteristics. These ancients knew herbs very well and were not making up stories about soma. It was real.

 

Soma ritual clearly predates vedantic or upanishadic thought. It seems to me that it was the shamanic ritual existing paralel to yoga, jnana and tantra. Vyasadeva later organized the Vedic knowledge into clear branches, presenting an over-arching philosophy uniting all these currents of thought and practice.

[Kulapavana]

and since we are on the subject of shamanic rituals...

 

Kirtan was also meant to be a shamanic ritual, a sacred chant and dance, meant to induce the state of trans, in which we experience extrasensory reality.

[bija]

 

That plant was rare even in the vedic times and clearly relates to a single species, at one time brought to earth from heavenly planets....Arurveda was full of various herbal preparations, but none of them were even close to soma characteristics. These ancients knew herbs very well and were not making up stories about soma. It was real. by kula

very interesting discussion..

 

 

Soma ritual clearly predates vedantic or upanishadic thought. It seems to me that it was the shamanic ritual existing paralel to yoga, jnana and tantra. Vyasadeva later organized the Vedic knowledge into clear branches, presenting an over-arching philosophy uniting all these currents of thought and practice. by kula

I think so too. It is of deep interest to one day understand, the transition from 'a cult based on soma' toward a vast vedic tradition that has at its centre the trophy of 'expanded awareness'.

[primate]

 

... hallucinogenic substances actually obscures our consciousness giving rise to odd external symptoms . but spiritual realization cleanses our consiousness but often have similar external symptoms . numerous sadhaks were unable to walk properly out of deep god intoxication . in all such cases the apparent external symptoms would be same as of a liqour intoxicated man. seeing this it is all very natural for any western observer to draw such wierd parrellels between the two. the might look similar but poles apart actually.

Endorphins are endogenous opioid polypeptide compounds which are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in vertebrates during strenuous exercise, excitement, and climax, and they resemble opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. (from Wikipedia)

[bija]

 

Kirtan was also meant to be a shamanic ritual, a sacred chant and dance, meant to induce the state of trans, in which we experience extrasensory reality. by kula

Many of us have experienced this too.. and know holotropic states are attainable through intensive devotional practice. An experience that correlates to other trance traditions, and in a clear way is very transformative and ongoing. The beauty of yoga and trance is that it is very clear, and activates pineal gland activity naturally, like a naturally opening lotus - without need of the plant activate.

 

 

* holotropic - moving toward wholeness.

[Soma Juice]

 

i think linking hallucinogenic experiences with high levels of conciousness would make the entire spiritual tradition of india shallow and meaningless.

 

while there is no denying that hallucinogenic substances and other occult practices gave rise to or was intertwined with numerous primitive religions , that was not the case with vedic cultures. there might be clear references regaurding their widespread use but it was seperate from the spiritual depths reached by the vedic seers . vedic religion is definately not a typical primitive religion as prevailing at other parts of the world at that time .

 

hallucinogenic substances actually obscures our consciousness giving rise to odd external symptoms . but spiritual realization cleanses our consiousness but often have similar external symptoms . numerous sadhaks were unable to walk properly out of deep god intoxication . in all such cases the apparent external symptoms would be same as of a liqour intoxicated man. seeing this it is all very natural for any western observer to draw such wierd parrellels between the two. the might look similar but poles apart actually.

Why would make the tradition shallow? it is a fact that shamans wo uses these plants indeed have reached some of the same levels of counciousness as vedic enlighted masters, if you read the story about Maria Sabina it clearly proves my case she has great telephatic abilities and healing powers something that shows her high level of counciousness.

If the psychedelic experience was hollow how can it lead to such powers?

I also think the vedic seers made the deepest plunge into god. But remember there are many ways to god some takes you longer than other but they are all ways to god.

No vedic religion is not a "primitive" religion but that still dont proves it didnt have shamanistic roots and rig-veda IMO proves that the vedic religion actually had plant use an essential part of it. The vedic religion could be build on shamanism and then through time refined into the great spiritual thruth the long tradition holds.

These soma rituals and the secret knowledge of how to find and make the soma formed the priest-caste who then made the basis for the organized vedic religion who produced so many seers and great spirituality.

 

I think the psychedelic experience can be described as a forced and very invasive spiritual experience and not like meditation who trains your counciouness and diciplines your counciousness, that is also why many shamans spend years in isolation just like we see in india to achieve an unclutched mind and make them possible to receive information through these plants and it is also why if your ego is in the way the information received will be flawed and even dangerous and can even lead to insanity.

 

Thats why it can seems like a delusion but, but eventhough you think it is a delusion the very special way it affect our counciousness has not been studied due to the taboos of the western world to the extent it is worthy.

 

The great spiritual deepth the rig-veda speaks of shows that it holds great the soma ritual hold great truth. A sign of the psychdelic experiences potiential can also be seen in the way these substances has made many people take up the spiritual path. Look at known figures in the west like Bhagavan Das and Ram Dass who both startet their spiritual journey with psychedelics.

Look at the great rise in interest in Buddhism and Vedic religions after LSD was released.

 

***Moderator Is there some way i can edit my thread the last link dont work and there are some spelling mistakes

[bija]

 

These soma rituals and the secret knowledge of how to find and make the soma formed the priest-caste who then made the basis for the organized vedic religion who produced so many seers and great spirituality. by somajuice

Yes, and maybe as Kulapavana has suggested at some point the plant became extinct. So the tradition moved forward into other realms of consciousness discovery, through meditation techniques, even up to Patanajali. Well possible.

 

 

Thats why it can seems like a delusion but, but eventhough you think it is a delusion the very special way it affect our counciousness has not been studied due to the taboos of the western world to the extent it is worthy. by soma juice

Yes.

[bija]

soma juice, this dvd may interest you:

 

http://www.entheogen.tv/

[sambya1]

 

Why would make the tradition shallow? it is a fact that shamans wo uses these plants indeed have reached some of the same levels of counciousness as vedic enlighted masters, if you read the story about Maria Sabina it clearly proves my case she has great telephatic abilities and healing powers something that shows her high level of counciousness.

If the psychedelic experience was hollow how can it lead to such powers?

 

my meaning in saying 'higher levels of conciousness' is actually 'highest level of conciousness' . yes , shamans do have higher conciousness levels than an ordinary human which is self evident through their psychic powers . but remember that telepathy or healing has nothing to do with spirituality and neither is a denoter of 'highest levels' . on the 'highest levels' such things become idiotic to a true spiritual aspirant .

 

although its true that a spiritual person might aqquire some psychic powers while his sadhana . its also true that some spiritual disciplines like the vamamarga of tantra have well defined rituals of attaining this highest state through the use of intoxicants. and there have been real good spiritually advanced persons in such paths also . but the principle target of these sadhaks were always attaining the supreme not healing , prophesising or similar paranormal powers .

 

 

No vedic religion is not a "primitive" religion but that still dont proves it didnt have shamanistic roots and rig-veda IMO proves that the vedic religion actually had plant use an essential part of it.

 

vedic religion didnt have shamanistic roots but might have had shamanistic influences.saying that it was shamanism in the begining and attained a more deeper spiritual philosophy later would completely devalue it and rank it with other primitive religions.

 

 

These soma rituals and the secret knowledge of how to find and make the soma formed the priest-caste who then made the basis for the organized vedic religion who produced so many seers and great spirituality.

 

are you suggesting that it was soma which did all the wonders for this land ?

 

 

 

I think the psychedelic experience can be described as a forced and very invasive spiritual experience and not like meditation who trains your counciouness and diciplines your counciousness,

 

psychedelic experiance is not a spiritual experience . all spiritual experience is the result of sadhana , dedication , patience , faith etc . even if a young man shows highest levels of conciousness all of a sudden it is because of the sadhana of his previous births.

 

 

Look at the great rise in interest in Buddhism and Vedic religions after LSD was released.

 

 

 

oh my god !!! is this rise in interest beacuse of release of LSD or search of inner peace which the materialistic culture of west failed to provide ?!!!!

[bija]

 

vedic religion didnt have shamanistic roots but might have had shamanistic influences.saying that it was shamanism in the begining and attained a more deeper spiritual philosophy later would completely devalue it and rank it with other primitive religions. posted by sambya

I don't see it that way sambya. I see the vedic appearance as a great pinnacle in consciousness evolution as a collective. The indigenous shamanic traditions may have evolved alongside vedic culture...but as we know inter-connection is a truth.

 

 

oh my god !!! is this rise in interest beacuse of release of LSD or search of inner peace which the materialistic culture of west failed to provide ?!!!!

by sambya

Ironically all these manifestations occured at the same point in history...interesting to note also, the evolution of the computer appeared at the same time in west coast 60's. At Berkley there was white robed professors creating the pc, alongside professors in other corridors wearing kaftan and exploring eastern tradition:cool:. And here we are today:rolleyes:... at audarya...online:D...