Give up kc?

[Lotusflower]

I feel like that sometime. Not 'give up', but stop being so serious.

 

I know I have Guru, but sometimes i find it too much, i am finding i feel this way after long time.

[jeffster]

Sometimes, during the course of a long war, the soldiers lose heart, particularly if their general has fallen in battle and become lost to their vision. Also, the stress of continuous assault/defense takes its toll on the very best of fighters. But soldier on we must. You wouldn't have come this far if you were not sincerely desiring factual spiritual life. We must simply encourage each other and understand that we are not alone in the battle, although ultimately we must each "fly his own plane." No one can do this for us, but by standing fast together we can become like a bundle of sticks that is stronger together than any separate stick is on its own. Know that we are truly not alone, and that we will meet Krishna and see guru again when we finally win the war. Then we can relax. And win we must, for what other alternative is there ?

 

Or, if your guru is still on the planet, perhaps more association with him would be a source of encouragement for you.

jeffster/AMd

What, me relax ? I never laxed in the first place.

[Lotusflower]

Fighting Maya or my own desire?

[jeffster]

Hari Bol, Lotusflower,

In my own case, fighting maya and battling my own mundane desires is pretty much the same thing. Not that we have to fight maya so much, for she is stronger than we are, being a pure servant of Krishna. We have to sincerely strive for Krishna by chanting His name, offering service, doing some or all of the nine processes of devotional service, or perfecting our practice of at least one of the nine processes. Sravanam, kirtanam, and these are listed first, for a reason, as they are the primary processes designed to free us from material misconception in this present kali age. I was listening to Prabupad chanting on some website that was linked to another devotional site just yesterday, and I had forgotten how powerful this simple process of hearing really is. Just listening to Prabhupad chanting japa. Amazing !! Submissive oral reception. The whole process is really quite simple, we just have to take it. And we must have a firm basis in the philosophical understanding and that comes from reading the books and discussing the issues as is done on this, and other, websites. Hope this helps.

jeffster/AMd

And Lotusflower, you are also saving me from the maya of motorcycle websites !!

[Lotusflower]

yeah on a light note, i tried riding (i did okay) Maruti Suzuki motorcycle in India I fell of twice, but got back on twice. (i think i just got what i said).

[jeffster]

Lotusflower,

You are already ahead of me, by offering these nice MP3 files. I have no direct KC service that I do, although I am still working on a KC (hopefully) book. I am old already, and I still haven't gotten serious yet. Please stay the course, maintain your service, associate with your Gurudev and godbrothers, keep chanting and hearing, and you'll be fine.

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

I got way too heavily into motorcycles from May '03 onward. My spiritual life nearly disappeared. On 4 April 2008, I had a major crash, necessitating emergency surgery. While hospitalized, they started giving me morphine. I am the kind of personality that should have no meds whatsoever, legal or otherwise. I had a bad reaction to the morphine (this is quite common), and started seeing hellish places. I saw thousands of dead animal carcasses. To this day, I am not sure if these visions were from within my own consciousness or were external. Even though I tried to clean up the visions through my yoga experience (and I did clean them up a bit), I knew I was trapped. Then Krishna literally saved me, and from that time on I have been somewhat more serious. I quit taking meds immediately, quit drinking coffee, and started writing a book before I left the hospital, which is now nearly completed. I just need to print it. An abbreviated version is running on Amazon.com, called Journey to Ecstasy. It is only for the Kindle book reader, however, which few people have. I also now chant my rounds more seriously and have begun reading the books more. But I did buy another motorcycle in Dec., a Suzuki, and I have just started riding again, but I must be careful not to let this form of maya carry me away. Here in this country, motorcycles are for the most part a hobby, not generally used as transport, except by a few commuters and tourers.

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

The issue for me has become quite simple: discerning Reality from illusion and moving towards Reality.

jeffster/AMd

[Lotusflower]

You mean living?

[Lotusflower]

Ill hear Prabhupada japa tape.

[stonehearted]

Dear Mud-born Lotus Flower, don't let these things discourage you. They all come from our previous conditioning, and we need to work through them. Remember that a climb to the mountain's summit begins in the foothills. Even though you appear to be ascending, then descending, then ascending and descending again, in the longer view of the process you are moving up. After some time you'll find yourself out of the foothills and on the mountain's slope. Then you'll look back at this stuff as insignificant as you look forward to the positive part of your journey. Spend some time with Visvanath Chakravarti Thakura's Madhurya Kadambini. Read a good translation of Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Harinama Cintamani. Reflect on the potential Srila Puri Maharaja must see in you, and persist in your endeavor to fulfill that vision, to fulfill your real destiny. But, in the meantime, don't let yourself become too discouraged by the moments (and that's all they are) when you seem not to.

 

Don't be shy about sharing your "down" moments with those you trust, or about calling out to Krishna and Mahaprabhu for help in your chanting (I've found Lord Nityananda particularly merciful at these moments). And remember that, as Thich Nhat Han says, you can't grow a lotus on marble; you need mud.

[Lotusflower]

Thx Babhu p, i dont listen to yr advice most of the time but yr right. MAYBE i am bit more mature now. I hate pretending in 'okay', when im not. BUT i just give up totally when i dont talk.

[jeffster]

...And so the soldier summons up his courage and marches on. He may even lose a few skirmishes, or perhaps even a battle or two and is forced temporarily to retreat, but because he has confidence in his general, he soldiers on, knowing that the war will eventually be won...

 

Yes, Puri Maharaj is the real deal, I got a chance to hear from him on USA tour a few years ago.

jeffster/AMd

[AncientMariner]

I still look at beautiful women and the thought crosses my mind "Jeeze, I would like to impregnate that lady" but having lived with a woman before that experience comes back to my mind and then rationality kicks in and I realize the complete pain in the ass it is to try and defend a woman in this society. I am still open to the idea of impregnating a woman if she is rich beyond belief and she would let me stay home and raise the kids but otherwise the rational aspect of it always brings me back to my senses. If you have no woman to impregnate might as well stick to practicing Krishna Consciousness because everything else is ultimately unfulfilling in the long run.

[primate]

 

I still look at beautiful women and the thought crosses my mind "Jeeze, I would like to impregnate that lady" but having lived with a woman before that experience comes back to my mind and then rationality kicks in and I realize the complete pain in the ass it is to try and defend a woman in this society. I am still open to the idea of impregnating a woman if she is rich beyond belief and she would let me stay home and raise the kids but otherwise the rational aspect of it always brings me back to my senses. If you have no woman to impregnate might as well stick to practicing Krishna Consciousness because everything else is ultimately unfulfilling in the long run.

Are you depressed..?

[Lotusflower]

Mariner, that remind me of Family Guy, (i am 31!) eps: stewie and brian singing together about erm .. #i want to have intercourse with you 'relations', (repeat). Stewie: 'er is there a shorter word for intercourse?.

[Narasingh]

 

I feel like that sometime. Not 'give up', but stop being so serious.

 

I know I have Guru, but sometimes i find it too much, i am finding i feel this way after long time.

 

Don't be serious, be truthful and sincere. Remember this encouraging directive of Saraswati Thakur:

 

 

 

matala hari-jana visaya range

pujala raga-patha gaurava-bhange

"The servants of Hari are engaged in lavish affairs, handling material wealth and engaging all manner of things in the Lord’s service. They worship the path of spontaneous devotion with

gaurava-bhange

[in a mood of awe and reverence] and to show that the

raga-patha

is above all [above our heads], they remain as servants, being a little distant and below, praying for that of a servant’s duty, not for that of a confidential nature — not to bring that highest divine love down here, but to hold that upon their heads."

 

 

[jeffster]

Also, if you are agitated for sex, it is not necessarily a bad thing to get married. Krishna says in Gita that He is sex life that is not contrary to religious principles. Many of Lord Chaitanya's highest apostles were householders

jeffster/AMd

[sanatan]

 

Also, if you are agitated for sex, it is not necessarily a bad thing to get married. Krishna says in Gita that He is sex life that is not contrary to religious principles. Many of Lord Chaitanya's highest apostles were householders

jeffster/AMd

 

 

The misapplication of that quote is what made ISKCON what it is, or rather was, during a very unfortunate time.

 

It's totally unreasonable to require young couples to practice "celibate marriage".

 

Celibacy is for old folks like me, who have no choice anyway. With age, the body does lose capabilities, and the mind turns to other topics.

 

If a young person sincerely wants to be celibate, let him or her enter into a true monastic life.

[jeffster]

That is the standard. That doesn't mean everyone stays on that platform. Most don't. I didn't, either, but that doesn't mean that the standard should be watered down. Recreational sex does bear a reaction, I can testify to that. They can have their fun getting pregnant and she can pop out lots of little kiddies, whom hopefully, will become devotees. It is the parent's duty to assure that their offspring are at least exposed to K.C. Many of the children later leave, but that is natural, they have free will like everyone else. Yeah, us old folks worry if we'll be able to handle dyin'. It's coming - a sure thing - sooner than later - prepare now.

jeffster/AMd

[Lotusflower]

Im 31

[Beggar]

Maybe this should be another topic but since we are at it... What happens if you set the bar too high? IOW tell late teenage and young adult "devotee" kids, only sex in marriage is permitted and then only for procreation and what do you get? Remember most of this kids went (or go) to public high school and then maybe regular college. I've been around the large Hare Krsna communities in California and Florida and I've seen what you now get with this approach. Since the standard is so high then you get zero standard, nada, zilch. These kids follow usually 2/3 of 1 of the 4 rules, that is, no meat, fish and some eggs. When you meet their new boyfriends or girlfriends they have be sleeping together often from day one. The girls do not even dress modestly, and if they wear a sari to the Sunday Feast it is done in an extremely revealing manner, maybe to show their tatoos or body piercings. Many of these young adults have moderate to serious addictions to drugs and alchohol and some smoke cigarettes. At the Mormon's large university, Brigham Young University in Utah they have a behavior code. If they break the code they get a warning and if they break it again then they are usually expelled from the University. No intoxication, or open sex before marriage is allowed. Here it is from Wikipedia:

 

The BYU honor code governs not only academic behavior, but morality, and dress and grooming standards of students and faculty, with the aim of providing an atmosphere consistent with LDS principles. The Honor Code requires:

• Abstinence from illicit drugs, alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea (substances forbidden by the LDS Word of Wisdom)
  
• Honesty
  
• Encouraging others in their commitment to keep the Honor Code
  
• Living a chaste and virtuous life:

   

  • Appropriate gender-specific behavior (no sexual harassment)
    
  • No involvement with pornographic or indecent material
    
  • No inappropriate sexual activity (no sexual relationships outside of marriage)
    
  • No homosexual behavior

  [*]Obedience to the law

  [*]Active participation in Church services (according to whatever religion one is a member)

  [*]Respect for others

  [*]Clean language

  [*]Following the "Residential Living Standards" (visiting hours for members of the opposite sex)

  [*]Dress and Grooming Standards. Abiding by the guidelines for dress, grooming, and housing. Skirts and shorts must reach to the knee and shirts may not be sleeveless. Form fitting, strapless and revealing clothing is not appropriate. Male students may not wear beards or goatees without permission; such permission is usually granted only to men with skin conditions aggravated by shaving or to men whose religious beliefs, such as Sikhism, require them to wear beards.

[jeffster]

If the Mormoms can do this, why can't the Vaishnavas ? Or, in fact, do the Mormons actually follow their codes ? Or are they hypocrites ? Alternatively, if we don't have the 4 rules, what standard would you propose ? The standard must be there, and according to the sincerity or lack thereof of the practitioner, the codes will be followed, or not. As I said, these kids have free will, and, if in spite of having been exposed to KC, they prefer to become sensualists, what can you do ? They will get their lessons in due course, and may again find their way back to their KC roots later. I have truly never yet met a Mormon that I didn't like. That's why I say " Be a Mormon. Don't be a moron. " Maybe the KC kids should go to BYU. I can testify from personal experience that many Mormons love Bhagavat philosophy and are very receptive. The Mormons are generally very innocent souls. You can see it in their fresh faces.

 

The other issue we can touch on is that of association. If the kids are allowed to go to public school, than no wonder that they nearly turn into animals. When I had 2 stepkids in a prior marriage, they were great until they hit middle school. Then they fell in with a rougher group of kids and never really recovered from the bad association. Now I am not in contact with them, but I have heard from others that they have had some problems as adults.

 

31 ? A relatively young man. Search your heart for the answer to this. No one can know it but your self. All we can do is testify to our own experience.

 

jeffster/AMd

[Lotusflower]

Dunno about hk community, but maybe some follow, also the kids not got guru. (i hate sayin that), sex for procreation so like 2 babie = 2 time? In yr whole marriage life. The thing is (i find it funny, human only ppl who have sex for pleasure). Maybe we need to calm down, anyway if yr married and you do 'do that', its the sperm that problem (soul comes in it), male could always have a pipes cut !

[Beggar]

Sex only for procreation is a standard to be followed by Vaisnava brahmanas.

By 1976 Srila Prabhupada was seeing the failings of giving the Vaisnava brahminical standards to persons who had no real chance at following these things do to the samskaras and sukrti/dukrti they have brought into this life.

That year the epidemic of sanyassi fall downs was upon Iskcon and that percipitated Srila Prabhupada's comment where he suggested real daiva varn[a] asrama dharma. At that time there was only one varna in Iskcon [as now] - brahmana.

How to do this, is a problem to be solved either now or in the future. Those who are attracted by real Gaudiya sadhana bhakti are Vaisnava brahmanas but those who have only a little sukrti, come to the Sunday Feast as their only involvement on a social level and work in the world in various occupations need a system to protect them from severe sinful reactions and at the same time gradually uplift them to a higher sukrti level. At present no such system exists. Krsna says in BG, " if you can't do this, then do this, then if you can't do this then do that etc." In our present system its no sex outside of marriage and only for procreation. Too high of a standard for non-brahmanas means chaos for society. It's just not noticed so much because the number of Hare Krsna followers is still relatively tiny.