Amlesh Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Obviously you havent read closely what i wrote.i said armed conflict was unviable at that time. Will it change the Truth. By his grace .You should have read what winston churchill said abt gandhi and his views on giving independence to india.Grace winston churchill was very against the idea of independence. MG got it. After that, Churchill had some rancor for the Mahatma.. but the Mahatma did not. and he miserably failed in protecting millions of lifes for his concept of ahimsa.Ahimsa from bhagwadgita???.. ohh pls excuse me and dont bother to reply. Let me decide about. I'm independent:rolleyes:. But Dependent of God;). Well of course, had any other measure secured lots of lives. You give me blood, I'll give you freedom. The only difference in the method of Gandhi is that he never felt the need to take out the blood of his opponents. Not only Ahimsa from B.G.. but everything else. No need to be surprised. ofcourse it is crap thanks for agreeing with me.But Gandhi said it quote" In a post-war interview in 1946, he offered a view at an even further extreme: "The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi the same attitude of Mahatma the gandhi made millions lose their life and thousands of women get raped and burnt alive.But you can keep admiring and loving gandhi.Kindly dont bother to reply my posts. well, his aim was independence he got it. Secondly, Ahimsa was a weapon that he used... for other war..it might not have worked. But for India's independence it was necessary. you jump too quickly into conclusions. With people like you.. it is easy to set some spark and you can act as the petrol to turn the entire forest into fire. The puppet dances to the tune of the musician without really understanding the time and need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narasingh Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Slightly off topic but still related: http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=14308&size=A jeffster/AMd LOL, maybe the Vaishnavas should issue a "fatwah" against anything Bhakti Pratikula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narasingh Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 That would not likely happen, because the fundamentals don't allow for it. There is such an emphasis on it being a personal struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackleberry Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Islamic terrorism, whatever that is, cannot exist without active state support. So blame the state, not the puppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Islamic terrorism, whatever that is, cannot exist without active state support. So blame the state, not the puppets. No ... target the religion - Islam. ALL the problem start with Islam itself. Blaming the people who are ignorant and arrogant is useless. Targetting Islam will allow us to get to the root of the problem by bypassing the idiots who defending it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Very touchy issue. I could tell you something that could conceivably be accomplished, but it would provoke World War 3, so I won't tell you. I now favor discrimination through intelligence as a means for me to see my way through this, which is more subtle than my baser gut-level instincts. WW3 is coming soon enough anyway, no need to hasten it. The Taliban do not need to get control of the whole of Pakistan, they only need to get control of one (1) nuke; they will then likely fire it at India, and that will be the actual beginning of WW3. Most of that war will be over within 72 hours or less, but the suffering will go on for months and years, likely decades. Here is a quote from Guru and Atma Nivedan; you can get this book through the links posted by LotusFlower: "The shastras, though they forbid us to associate with evil persons, in any way, never encourage us to speak ill of anyone, including these evil persons, at any time. By speaking ill of others we degrade ourselves." jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktatraveler Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Very touchy issue. I could tell you something that could conceivably be accomplished, but it would provoke World War 3, so I won't tell you. I now favor discrimination through intelligence as a means for me to see my way through this, which is more subtle than my baser gut-level instincts. WW3 is coming soon enough anyway, no need to hasten it. The Taliban do not need to get control of the whole of Pakistan, they only need to get control of one (1) nuke; they will then likely fire it at India, and that will be the actual beginning of WW3. Most of that war will be over within 72 hours or less, but the suffering will go on for months and years, likely decades. Here is a quote from Guru and Atma Nivedan; you can get this book through the links posted by LotusFlower: "The shastras, though they forbid us to associate with evil persons, in any way, never encourage us to speak ill of anyone, including these evil persons, at any time. By speaking ill of others we degrade ourselves." jeffster/AMd WWIII begain on 9/11/01, Bush said world war on terror. Just like WWII for amerika begain on 12/7/41. That the culmination of WWIII is nuclear exchange is a for gone conclution. So how would you stop or curtail this seamingly enevitable out come? Or expedite it? RCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 WWIII begain on 9/11/01, Bush said world war on terror. Just like WWII for amerika begain on 12/7/41. That the culmination of WWIII is nuclear exchange is a for gone conclution. So how would you stop or curtail this seamingly enevitable out come? Or expedite it? RCB The first step as i see it is weeding out or restricting the terrorist sympathisers among us.The next obvious step is destroy nukes in the hands of terror supporting countries like pakistan and iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Expediting WW3 would be demonic. Responding to demonism with similar demonic deeds is not fit action for a Vaishnava. Whatever I do, I want there to be the least negative and/or positive karmic implications for both me personally and society in general. I don't have the requisite wisdom it takes to deal with this issue, so from now on, I will comment little on it. To curtail this seemingly inevitable outcome, I can only do my very small part by attempting to follow Prabhupad's instructions by attempting to do some sadhana daily and preach Bhagavat philosophy to whomever will listen. Some of our non-devotee friends may want to join us in going to temple for Gaura Purnim. So I can preach in a small way like that. I am a small fry without much realization, and little influence, but I keep slowly chipping away at mayic misconception. The more people who become influenced by Bhagavat philosophy, the better chance we have at averting a nuclear holocaust. Nothing is written in stone since we have free will, although it certainly looks like we are sliding ever closer to the precipice. I agree with Narasingh that for Vaishnavas the issue is more of a personal struggle than a societal one. Since contemporary societies around the world are gradually becoming demonic, all we as Vaishnavas can do is attempt to maintain our punya and sadhana and sidestep the mutually assured destruction (MAD). Some of us will physically perish in it, some will survive it. For us it is about survival and maturation of spirit, not about survival of our body. In prior ages, this wouldn't happen on such a scale, and the scale it would happen on would be rapidly curtailed by kshatriyas. But in Kali, there is no stricture on human conduct, so we see increasing madness, delusion, born of tamo-guna. jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktatraveler Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Expediting WW3 would be demonic. Responding to demonism with similar demonic deeds is not fit action for a Vaishnava. Whatever I do, I want there to be the least negative and/or positive karmic implications for both me personally and society in general. I don't have the requisite wisdom it takes to deal with this issue, so from now on, I will comment little on it. To curtail this seemingly inevitable outcome, I can only do my very small part by attempting to follow Prabhupad's instructions by attempting to do some sadhana daily and preach Bhagavat philosophy to whomever will listen. Some of our non-devotee friends may want to join us in going to temple for Gaura Purnim. So I can preach in a small way like that. I am a small fry without much realization, and little influence, but I keep chipping away at mayic misconception. The more people who become influenced by Bhagavat philosophy, the better chance we have at averting a nuclear holocaust. Nothing is written in stone, although it certainly looks like we are sliding ever closer to the precipice. I agree with Narasingh that for Vaishnavas the issue is more of a personal struggle than a societal one. Since societies around the world are rapidly becoming demonic, all we as Vaishnavas can do is attempt to maintain our punya and sadhana and sidestep the mutually assured destruction (MAD). Some of us will perish in it, some will survive it. For us it is about survival and maturation of spirit, not about survival of our body. In prior ages, this wouldn't happen on such a scale, and the scale it would happen on would be rapidly curtailed by kshatriyas. jeffster/AMd Narada Muni expedited many things that in the quick glance could have been deamed/seen negativly. Srila Prabhupada also spoke as if nuclear war it was a sure thing. But that it could change, it hasn't. I say like that because I thought we would have avoided this proposed inevitability by the spread of the Krsna conscious movement. So maybe the next stage of world wide spiritual growth has to be built from ashes like a phoenix that rises. I do not wish for it, but seems to be the enevitable conclution. RCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Narada Muni could expedite because of his pure vision. I don't have that level of vision. I could propose something, but I would immediately become implicated in cause and effect. It would be faulty, also. After some of my earlier, more forceful posts, I had some bad dreams. This indicated that Krishna was not pleased with my comments. Since I cannot see the proper course of action in this, it is therefore wiser for me to refrain from proposing action that would be faulty. Some of Narasingh's earlier posts on this thread and/or a similar thread commented in that same vein. I do not wish for this either, but I feel nearly powerless to do anything to prevent it, due to my own extensive conditioning. I do feel, however, that in Kali, truly spiritual people will continue to remain a very small % of the overall population. Hare Krishna. jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narasingh Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 How interesting is it that Bhisma fought for the throne although his heart was with the Pandavas. Doesn't this seem akin to pledging allegiance to a flag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Perhaps for Bhismadev, it must have been lila, since he was already perfected. For us, we have pledged allegiance to family, society, village, tribe, country, flag, race, religion, etc. for many births. Now time for us to get over it. "Freedom from duality and designation..." jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 If we must fly one flag it should be that of Garuda, yes? jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Now the Pakistani government is appeasing the Taliban: www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/world/asia/17pstan.html?_r=1&partner=MOREOVERNEWS&ei=5040 Today, the Swat valley, tomorrow the ? jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Tomorrow the India. Say it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narasingh Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 In the Mahabharata, Maharaj Yuddhisthira was questioned by the Yaksha as to what the most amazing and surprising thing was in this world. Yuddhisthira answered that, "Although we witness countless creatures meeting their death throughout our life, we still imagine death as foreign, not affecting us imminently". (or the gist thereof) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Personally I think 9-11 was perpetrated by Al-CIA-duh. The war on terror is just a ruse to bring about a world like police state where the population willingly sacrifice their civil rights. Yeah there will always be skirmishes and violence between different people most likely. A war on terror is the war that will never end with no clearly defined opponent and the opponent can ultimately be whoever the establishment wants it to be thus giving them the power to create war whenever convenient. It is just a construct to give the government excuse to sucker your children into joining the military and think they are serving God or something when they are really being used by a bunch of fat cat international bankers who are laughing their ass off at the gullibility of the sheep. They will just create war after war to keep feeding your children into the grinder and shooting them up with all sorts of vaccines and other experimental stuff. You fellas can have your never ending war on terror and even stick it where the sun don't shine. I fell for it originally back when the towers came down perfectly in their own foundation but now that I see its true face I can't in good conscience support this idiocy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 AM, Thanks for your subtle analysis of this most complicated issue. And telling us to "stick it where the sun don't shine," will certainly endear us to you and impel us to accept your lofty thoughts on the issue. No doubt there is some merit to your thesis, but unfortunately, we'll never know for sure. However, the fact remains that these demoniac individuals and groups are all too eager to cut off the head of the infidel. And you, sir, are an infidel worshipping some blue Personality of Godhead, which is against the highest siddhanta of Islam, because God, to them, is just an invisible, impersonal force. Right now I'm in Bangkok and, as you know, there has been trouble with Muslim extremists here for the last 4 or 5 years, because the southern 3 Thai provinces used to be part of an Islamic caliphate until about 100 yrs ago. And of course, those people would like to turn the clock back and attempt to reclaim their caliphate, so they have been busy beheading Buddhists for the last while. Of course when the Buddhists retailiate and torture some Muslims, the Muslims cry out about this inhumane treatment, as usual attempting to be seen as innocent victims. A westerner was beheaded here the other day and his head was hung from a bridge. The local press wanted us to believe that it may have been a suicide, because they don't want bad press to get out and ruin the big tourist dollars that flow into this country. Because of this greed, no one here would even admit the possibility that this was a terrorist act, but it has all the earmarks of a Muslim-instigated beheading. Frankly I think that this issue is bigger than anyone on this forum is capable of handling. I would like to ask a pure devotee how it should be handled. Unfortunately, I don't currently know any pure devotees, but if any of you do, please ask and report back. Regards, jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 ... I would like to ask a pure devotee how it should be handled. ... I guess a pure devotee would say that it is an error to think that we can do anything at all. Krishna is the only doer and everything that appears to occur in this so called 'material world' is ultimately His plan unfolding. So just chant your rounds and observe the show.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 "Just chant my rounds and observe the show.." That is good advice, but should I add that I must remain a passive spectator hoping not to get caught in the cross-fire ? We are not the doer, but is there not something that we could do (purely) for Krishna here ? What is His desire ? Yes, at least the fundamentalists are some kind of theists, so they are better than atheists at least. But they give religion in general a bad rap because of their ignorant acts. But that has given me a preaching field anyway. So is the cup at least 10% full here ? Sorry Sepiroth, I forgot to answer your post # 116. It is "Tomorrow the world." Although it is more likely - Tomorrow a big chunk of Pakistan. jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Probably, Krishna’s desire is for you to chant your rounds. The fundamentalists and terrorists will join you, eventually.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 The wife and I went for kirtan, class & prasad at the Lumpini Park, Bangkok, program today. Before we arrived, some Jehovahs Witnesses came up and they preached to me and I preached to them. They quoted the verse that man cannot live by bread alone, which I felt was appropriate. I told them to tell that to my wife, and they laughed. They were surprised when I told them that God has many names, actually more than 1000, but they were pretty cool with that, although they apparently favor the name Jehovah. They did not have the common Christian misconception that Jesus is God; they understood that Jesus is the son of God. They are obviously pious to come out in public and preach like that. Anyway, this Lumpini Pavillion program been run by RamLakshman das for a long time. It isn't exactly officially Iskcon, but it is fairly close to Iskcon, I believe. Anyway, some kirtan is better than no kirtan. In Thailand right now, there are a lot of devotees from Nepal, some from Burma, but only a few Thai devotees. I'll just chant my rounds then, hoping that eventually I will be able to become pure and then actually be able to do some good for people: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hi Jeffster, Of course I didn’t intend to interfere with any personal realization you might have. I just gave the obvious Krsna conscious answer to your question. Actually I’m asking myself the same question. What can we do? But no matter how you look at 'terrorism', there doesn’t seem to be anything we can do, either with – or without violence. I guess the world must change itself. And it appears to do so violently.. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narasingh Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 BG 16.13-15 The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance. We must keep ourselves from this way of thinking. We must become pure then we will know the decision to be had. Don't just chant your rounds, but chant them earnestly, with great need and desire. Our current problem is there are no global governing structures which are completely Dharmic. And even if there happens to be a war, Maha Bhagavatas still find themselves on opposite sides. As "primate" says: Krishna is the only doer and everything that appears to occur in this so called 'material world' is ultimately His plan unfolding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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