Non-violence cannot tackle terrorism: Dalai Lama

[Soma Juice]

you actually find the same intolerant stuff in the Torah

Deuteronomy 13:13-17

"If you hear that in one of the towns, there are men who are telling people to go and worship other gods, it is your duty to look into the matter and examine it.

If it is proved and confirmed, you must put the inhabitants of that town to the sword. You must lay the town under the curse of destruction, the town and everything in it. You must pile up all its loot in the public square and burn the town and all its loot. That town is to be a ruin for all time, and never rebuilt

[primate]

Just don’t be terrified..

[bija]

 

white phosphorous. article click here

 

a few days ago on the news I saw a residential area in Gaza flattened. The Israeli army not only seeks militants but levels whole areas of housing. Why?

 

I don't know how much info you get on the news in America. But just imagine being very poor, living constantly with fear...and then one day the fear happens and your house and family is gone. Are you gonna say oh well?

 

Hatred and intolerance is a complex thing. The Israeli nation has affluence and needs to work seriously at making harmony. It has 'responsibility' to work with other united nations and end this never-ending snowball of events.

 

 

Shall we let it happen again? by narasingha

let what happen again? what is your mindset...

[chandu_69]

 

you actually find the same intolerant stuff in the Torah

Deuteronomy 13:13-17

"If you hear that in one of the towns, there are men who are telling people to go and worship other gods, it is your duty to look into the matter and examine it.

If it is proved and confirmed, you must put the inhabitants of that town to the sword. You must lay the town under the curse of destruction, the town and everything in it. You must pile up all its loot in the public square and burn the town and all its loot. That town is to be a ruin for all time, and never rebuilt

 

There are plenty of such things in torah/OT.But the jews and christians(An overwhelming majority of them) moved past torah/OT.If the jews of israel have to follow torah they should not be leaving any muslims alive in israel itself forget about palestine.

[bija]

that's it chandu. Any sane man will let go of religious texts demanding such things, whether he be hindu, muslim or christian. Anyone who holds any validity to these texts in this 21st century is actually insane. And should build himself a castle or fortress:rolleyes:...or time machine so he can wear animal fur and bronze knives.

 

The rise of these religions occured at a set time in world history. Before the era of christs, buddhas, and mohammeds there was mother earth worship. Could it be today, that we can relish the good in these religious traditions, harmonize it with an earth centred nurture, and move toward a better world. Surely the age of the prophets will come to an end (at least the sectarian divide of its followers).

[chandu_69]

 

white phosphorous. article click here

a few days ago on the news I saw a residential area in Gaza flattened. The Israeli army not only seeks militants but levels whole areas of housing. Why?

.

 

from the article :"International law forbids white phosphorus use against military targets within areas where civilians are concentrated, except when the targets are clearly separated and "all feasible precautions" are taken to avoid casualties among non-combatants."

 

The military target(hamas) hides and operates in civilian areas.How it is possible for israel to isolate them without hurting civilian population??.

 

 

Hatred and intolerance is a complex thing[/unquote].

 

Not for Hamas.they are very clear about their basis for hatred.read their mission statement.

 

 

[bija]

 

from the article :"International law forbids white phosphorus use against military targets within areas where civilians are concentrated, except when the targets are clearly separated and "all feasible precautions" are taken to avoid casualties among non-combatants."

 

The military target(hamas) hides and operates in civilian areas.How it is possible for israel to isolate them without hurting civilian population??.

 

 

 

Not for Hamas.they are very clear about their basis for hatred.read their mission statement.

 

The Israeli nation has affluence and needs to work seriously at making harmony. It has 'responsibility' to work with other united nations and end this never-ending snowball of events. [/unquote].

 

Oh Yes, like the indian government which allows india to bleed from pakistan sponsored terrorism and wail once in a while when a serious terror attack happens.The israelis withdrew from gazah for lasting peace and what happened?.

There you go again, one side of the coin vision. There are two parties in every tango dance.

 

No one here seems to be saying hamas is justified.

[chandu_69]

 

There you go again, one side of the coin vision. There are two parties in every tango dance.

 

No one here seems to be saying hamas is justified.

 

Many including you are saying it; some explicitly.

Btw tell me what other options israel have apart from crushing hamas?.What other side of coin you can possibly envisage?

[chandu_69]

A SENIOR Hamas official said the Palestinian Islamist movement will continue to arm its militants in the war-battered Gaza Strip as well as on the West Bank.

 

<!-- // END article intro ************************************** --> <!-- // article corpus ************************************** --> "We never failed to get arms into Gaza even during the (Israeli) war and under the bombardment," the Hamas representative in Beirut, Ossama Hamdan, told a rally in the Lebanese capital overnight.

 

"We have the right to hold weapons. We will continue to get arms into Gaza and the West Bank ... Nobody should think that we will surrender to any measures," he said.

...

"Warplanes, aircraft carriers and satellite technology will not be able to monitor the entry of weapons through Gaza's tunnels," Mr Hamdan said. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24963125-23109,00.html

 

 

 

Israel was consistently maintaining that tunnels were used to get weapons and now hamas is confirming it.

[bija]

 

Many including you are saying it; some explicitly. by chandu

Firstly I am not a supporter of Hamas or any other intolerant political/religious movement. Let me make that very clear.

 

 

Btw tell me what other options israel have apart from crushing hamas?.What other side of coin you can possibly envisage? by chandu

 

I envision a world Chandu, where history culture and religion is deeply appreciated. Where modern man can appreciate his diverse past and common destiny.

 

I envision a world where religion does not divide. And global recognition that when religion has divided man, that religion is not Absolute Truth.

 

I envision enemies meeting at the table, and deciding to bring harmony for the sake of our global family.

 

I envision honesty and humility as the foundation of reconcilliation.

[Narasingh]

 

that's it chandu. Any sane man will let go of religious texts demanding such things, whether he be hindu, muslim or christian. Anyone who holds any validity to these texts in this 21st century is actually insane. And should build himself a castle or fortress:rolleyes:...or time machine so he can wear animal fur and bronze knives.

 

The rise of these religions occured at a set time in world history. Before the era of christs, buddhas, and mohammeds there was mother earth worship. Could it be today, that we can relish the good in these religious traditions, harmonize it with an earth centred nurture, and move toward a better world. Surely the age of the prophets will come to an end (at least the sectarian divide of its followers).

This leads back to your thread ...one... and the one I started with a more clarified title albeit in the wrong forum possibly, What role does religion play in the coming age...

Perhaps we should bring this subject to the top of discussion again. As you said, "Any sane man would let go of religious texts demanding such things." It is interesting, though, that even Hinduism has its capital punishment for heresy. Even in the Bhagavata, Sati's prescription for heresy and aparadha is graphically vivid and to this day is taken literally by many.

 

The question is, "Just how many sane people inhabit the earth?"

 

You asked before, what I meant when I asked if we should let this happen again. We have a growing issue worldwide, with "nations" endeavoring to gain control over nuclear weapons, and proposing the elimination of societies, with no concern for non-combatants. One has to question what the appropriate response is to this. America used the A-Bomb to neutralize the threat it felt coming from Japan. Japan was determined to establish its dominance in the world at the cost of innocent lives with such projects as the "Massacre at Nanking". We have Governments which plot to firmly establish poverty in areas deemed strategically important to do so. We must be careful to spread knowledge as well as compassion.

 

I haven't declared Israel a terrorist state, but I have signed numerous petitions to stop the war in Gaza. I feel, as you do, that Israel should have obtained the assistance of the United Nations. I also felt that the United States should have done the same thing with regards to Iraq and Afghanistan. More importantly, I would like to say that United Nations should have acted earlier, with more involvement in these issues. When you have a country vowing an all out war at the first chance, you usually have a brewing problem which can stand to be looked at.

[bija]

 

It is interesting, though, that even Hinduism has its capital punishment for heresy. Even in the Bhagavata, Sati's prescription for heresy and aparadha is graphically vivid and to this day is taken literally by many. by narasingh

 

All things have a grosser perspective and a subtler perspective. The man who has accepted life on a subtle plane, takes the subtle purport of sastra as having spiritual significance. This can be an internal thing I would suggest.

[Narasingh]

You seem to be hinting at a reconciliation of the aspects of religion which have a "grosser perspective".

[chandu_69]

 

Firstly I am not a supporter of Hamas or any other intolerant political/religious movement. Let me make that very clear.

 

But u have condemned israel for their actions in self defence.No such condemnation from you regarding hamas

 

 

 

I envision a world Chandu, where history culture and religion is deeply appreciated. Where modern man can appreciate his diverse past and common destiny.

 

I envision a world where religion does not divide. And global recognition that when religion has divided man, that religion is not Absolute Truth.

[chandu_69]

 

that's it chandu. Any sane man will let go of religious texts demanding such things, whether he be hindu, muslim or christian. Anyone who holds any validity to these texts in this 21st century is actually insane.

.

 

Tell that to a practising muslim and if you are alive still come and post your experience.This is a challenge to you.

[Amlesh]

 

Btw tell me what other options israel have apart from crushing hamas?

Who would have said India getting its Independence via Non-Violence?

Only 1 believed so... Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

I also agree that Non-Violence is not always the best weapon in a war... but the Israelites are not as white as cotton in terms of justice.

 

What bija is trying to tell you might seem really hard to achieve but it is not impossible.

 

First they laugh at you...

Then they discuss with you...

Then they fight with you...

and then You win.

(M.K. Gandhi)

[jeffster]

Slightly off topic but still related:

 

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=14308&size=A

 

jeffster/AMd

[chandu_69]

 

Who would have said India getting its Independence via Non-Violence?

Only 1 believed so... Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

Good,there was no other alternative of fighting the mighty british empire.Gandhi was succesful because he knew how to exploit the sentimentality of the british.

Btw british would have left sooner or later gandhi just hastened the process.proof;british left all the occupied countries.there were no gandhi equivalent's in other occupied countries.

 

 

I also agree that Non-Violence is not always the best weapon in a war...

Gandhi obviously comeoff from his high horse of nonviolence probably after his debacle in containing the india partition violence started by muslims to get islamic country.Read the article at the end of this post.

 

but the Israelites are not as white as cotton in terms of justice.

Who said israel is a white knight?

 

 

 

First they laugh at you...Then they discuss with you...Then they fight with you...and then You win.

(M.K. Gandhi)

You should patiently read this article about the fundamentalistic pacific nature of gandhi here-http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.com/category/mahatma-gandhi/

 

and specifically-Gandhi's Way Isn't the American Way

Collective suicide is no foreign policy.(

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTM1NTg1YjFhMGE5MzZjZDUzNzNhNzdkMjE2YmEyNTY)

quote"

At what point is it okay to fight dictators like Saddam or the al Qaeda terrorists who want to take his place?

It turns out that the answer, according to Gandhi, is NEVER. During World War II, Gandhi penned an open letter to the British people, urging them to surrender to the Nazis. Later, when the extent of the holocaust was known, he criticized Jews who had tried to escape or fight for their lives as they did in Warsaw and Treblinka. “The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife,” he said. “They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.” “Collective suicide,” he told his biographer, “would have been heroism.”

[chandu_69]

 

Slightly off topic but still related:

 

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=14308&size=A

 

jeffster/AMd

 

offtopic, but relevent.

[Amlesh]

 

Good,there was no other alternative of fighting the mighty british empire.Gandhi was succesful because he knew how to exploit the sentimentality of the british.

 

Perfect.. and still Ahimsa was used as the weapon.

It was the ingenuity of Gandhiji who could see that.

 

Btw british would have left sooner or later gandhi just hastened the process.proof;british left all the occupied countries.there were no gandhi equivalent's in other occupied countries.

 

That we would have known only if Gandhiji would have failed in his endeavor for independence.

By his grace only that many other country could easily ask for independence from the British Empire and not strive much as India did.

Mauritius is among one of them.

 

Gandhi obviously comeoff from his high horse of nonviolence probably after his debacle in containing the india partition violence started by muslims to get islamic country.Read the article at the end of this post.

Who said israel is a white knight?

 

He saw the solution for the simultaneous equation of British Imperialism and Muslim conflict as Ahimsa from the Bhagwad Gita.

 

 

 

You should patiently read this article about the fundamentalistic pacific nature of gandhi here-http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.com/category/mahatma-gandhi/

 

and specifically-Gandhi's Way Isn't the American Way

Collective suicide is no foreign policy.(

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTM1NTg1YjFhMGE5MzZjZDUzNzNhNzdkMjE2YmEyNTY)

quote"

At what point is it okay to fight dictators like Saddam or the al Qaeda terrorists who want to take his place?

It turns out that the answer, according to Gandhi, is NEVER. During World War II, Gandhi penned an open letter to the British people, urging them to surrender to the Nazis. Later, when the extent of the holocaust was known, he criticized Jews who had tried to escape or fight for their lives as they did in Warsaw and Treblinka. “The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife,” he said. “They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.” “Collective suicide,” he told his biographer, “would have been heroism.”

The source for this crap is a bigger crap that the information itself.

[Kulapavana]

 

Kulapavana, your statement just doesn't have the capacity to be substantiated. Israel has not done this, nor has it attempted to do it. Again and again, it is the culturing of Muslim hate and fanatacism which justifies attacking Jews.

 

Gaza is a perfect example of the Israeli politics of 'quiet genocide'. They bomb and starve Arab civilians, disrupt humanitarian services, destroy civil infrastructure, deny them help from international community, shoot women and children with total impunity.

 

Lets look at the statistics... WHO KILLED MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE? Jewish terrorists or Arab terrorists?

 

Here is an indepth look at the fatalities provided by a jewish source:

 

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp

[chandu_69]

 

Perfect.. and still Ahimsa was used as the weapon.

It was the ingenuity of Gandhiji who could see that.

Obviously you havent read closely what i wrote.i said armed conflict was unviable at that time.

 

 

That we would have known only if Gandhiji would have failed in his endeavor for independence.

By his grace only that many other country could easily ask for independence from the British Empire and not strive much as India did.Mauritius is among one of them.

 

By his grace .You should have read what winston churchill said abt gandhi and his views on giving independence to india.Grace

 

 

He saw the solution for the simultaneous equation of British Imperialism and Muslim conflict as Ahimsa from the Bhagwad Gita.

 

and he miserably failed in protecting millions of lifes for his concept of ahimsa.Ahimsa from bhagwadgita???..

ohh pls excuse me and dont bother to reply.

 

 

 

The source for this crap is a bigger crap that the information itself.

 

ofcourse it is crap thanks for agreeing with me.But Gandhi said it

 

quote"

In a post-war interview in 1946, he offered a view at an even further extreme:

 

 

"The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

 

 

 

the same attitude of Mahatma the gandhi made millions lose their life and thousands of women get raped and burnt alive.But you can keep admiring and loving gandhi.Kindly dont bother to reply my posts.

 

 

 

 

[jeffster]

As a footnote to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I was listening to BBC some time ago; the Palestinians were discussing the issue in their own language and their word for Palestinian was "Philistine." So this is a very old issue, actually, noted in the Old Testament. Even then these two parties to the conflict had ongoing battles that were fought on and off for 100s of years. The Palestinians produced Goliath, the giant, and the Hebrews produced the lad David, who slew Goliath and later became the Hebrew king. So these are two regional powers, 1/2 brothers actually - Issac, who later became king of the Jews, born of Sarah, the wife of Abraham; Ishmael, the original Palestinian, born of Hagar, Abraham's "maid servant." They have been fighting over this tiny scrap of land for a long time.

 

Strange how close the name "Abraham" is to "Brahma." And how close "Sarah" is to "Sarasvati." So here was the Hebraic religion that, in a veiled, allegorical manner, seems to have, at least possibly, acknowledged its descent from Lord Brahma. Later in the history of this religion some sage, or prophet, discovered, or revealed, a meditational symbol, "Aleph," that revealed Brahman to the serious seekers. Thereby was begun the first "monotheistic" religion, which we term on this forum "monism."

 

Now, in a twist of karmic destiny, Israel has become like the giant Goliath, and the Palestinians have become like the underdog David. As we know, often people feel sympathy for an underdog.

 

If only both sides would acknowledge the reality of Krishna, perhaps there could be found a common brotherhood with its resultant peace.

AMd

[jeffster]

"Now, in a twist of karmic destiny, Israel has become like the giant Goliath, and the Palestinians have become like the underdog David. As we know, often people feel sympathy for an underdog." quote, posted by jeffster

 

Jeffster, with that kind of logic, perhaps we should root for the Taliban, since they are the underdog in their conflict with EVERYONE.

 

jeffster/AMd

[Kulapavana]

 

Strange how close the name "Abraham" is to "Brahma." And how close "Sarah" is to "Sarasvati." So here was the Hebraic religion that, in a veiled, allegorical manner, seems to have, at least possibly, acknowledged its descent from Lord Brahma. Later in the history of this religion some sage, or prophet, discovered, or revealed, a meditational symbol, "Aleph," that revealed Brahman to the serious seekers. Thereby was begun the first "monotheistic" religion, which we term on this forum "monism."

 

Over the years I have talked to several sanskrit and ancient language scholars and most of them seem to think these similarities are only superficial.

 

Initially Yahveh was a desert god and had a female consort, Asherah. Some people worshipped Yahvah, some worshipped Asherah, some worshipped both. The Torah was put together by the priests to legitimize the tribal conquest of the ancient Hebrews and to unify their tribe around one god and one way of worship.