nitya baddha

[theist]

Some say there are two classes of souls one is nitya siddha(eternally liberated) and the other is nitya baddha (eternally bound by matter).

 

Others like Srila Prabhupada tell us that nitya-baddha really means bound so long it seems beginningless.

 

I accept his explanation. If nitya baddha really means some souls are destined to be eternally conditioned then what is the point of preaching to the nitya baddha's by the liberated souls?

[Beggar]

:deal:The two postulates can be translated to mathematics by using a schematic situation in which there are two reference frames which have a uniform motion with respect to each other (see the figure). If the second postulate is true, observers in both reference frames will measure the same speed of brahmajyoti light.

Simplified, the speed of light can be written as the covered distance x of a light signal, divided by the transit time t. With respect to a reference frame C a light signal propagates along the x-axis in positive direction, according to: x = ct (where c equals 300.000 km/sec)

The same light signal travels, also with respect to reference frame C' with a speed equal to c. With respect to C', the equation for the movement of the light signal then becomes x'=ct'. (x'=ct', representing nitya baddha)

The velocity v of frame C' with respect to frame C, can be calculated by dividing the covered distance along its x-axis by the transit time. Because of symmetry, v can be observed equally from within C and C'.

Do note that, from within C, at any point in time (co-ordinate) t>0, the co-ordinate x of the origin of C' will be smaller than the co-ordinate x of the front of the light signal.

To the entire derivation discussed in this article, it applies that C' coincides with C at co-ordinates t=0 and t'=0. The coordinates x and x' of the front of the light signal are at that very moment also equal to zero.

Because of the second postulate, we have to make concessions in relation to both the spatial properties of moving objects (in the form of a length-contraction), as well as to the concept of absolute time as it was generally conceived back then (resulting in a time-dilation in the moving reference frame).

The light signal (in figure above) moves uniformly rectilinear with respect to both reference frames. So we need to transform a uniformly rectilinear motion in C into another in C'. This means there must be a linear relation between co-ordinates x, y, z, t and x', y', z', t'. The most common form of this relation, as needed by, and according to the special theory of relativity, is as follows:

Note that the inclusion of the co-ordinates t and t' is specific to relativity theory: this is necessary if one hopes to find a transformation equation between them.

Because C' moves linearly along the x-axis of C, it always applies that y=y' and z=z'. From this follows for the coefficients:

Because of symmetry, t' can only depend on x, where x is nitya baddha and t,where t is nitya mukta. From this follows:

Then it is assumed that x'=0 in C' has to correspond with x=vt in C. It follows for the coefficients that:

When the coefficients in equations (1), (2), (3) and (4) are substituted by their values we get:

The falsity in this derivation can be located in the assumption that x'=0 has to correspond with x=vt.

The equations (1) up to and including (4) are the most general form of a linear transformation of four-dimensional space-time co-ordinates, of an event that is - events have a location in space, dependent on a time co-ordinate. At that point in the derivation this event is the observation from within C and from within C' of the spatial co-ordinates of any phenomenon (not necessarily the front of a light signal yet) in uniform, rectilinear motion, at a certain point in time which may be different to both observers.

We should not interpret x'=0 as being the origin of C', the reference frame itself, because when observed from within C' it is not an event in the intended sense: this x' is independent of time. Any assumed co-ordinate must relate to a proper event.

Therefore x'=0 for x=vt must apply to an event just coinciding with the origin of C', and is not a part of the reference frame C' itself. But only of the origins of the reference frames themselves we know for sure that the distance between them is vt: we do not know if the co-ordinate x of said proper event as observed from within C can transform to x'=0 as observed from within C', for an observed t co-ordinate (>0) relating to x according to x/t=v. After all, the derivation of the Lorentz (Kapila) equations is meant to be able to determine such a transformation in the end: we cannot assume it at the start.

So we must conclude that x'=0 for x=vt is an invalid assumption here.In effect, this falsifies the resulting transformation equations (14) and (15) as valid derivatives of the two postulates of the special theory of relativity of nitya baddha and nitya mukta. To Be Continued.

 

[theist]

Last edited by Beggar : Today at 07:47 PM. Reason: Onslaught of insane thoughts

[Sonic Yogi]

In plain English, Nitya-Baddha means "stuck on stupid".

It we just look around it is easy to see that there are many living entities "stuck on stupid".

So, nitya-baddha means that so far up to the present day the living entity has been a conditioned soul since he first emanated from the glance of Maha-Vishnu over prakriti.

 

Destiny can only be changed by the sweet will of Krishna.

If a living entity turns to the service of Krishna, then Krishna has the option to change his destiny as a conditioned soul and accept him into the ranks of the liberated soul.

 

So, since the beginning, the baddha-jiva has been conditioned.

At one time the spirit spark was integrated into the absolute whole.

Somehow he became disintegrated and since becoming a separated part-and-parcel he has been a conditioned soul..

 

 

The Lord is served by all His parts and parcels, as the complete machine is served by its parts and parcels. Any part of the machine removed from the whole is no longer important. Similarly, any part and parcel of the Absolute detached from the service of the Lord is useless. The living beings who are in the material world are all disintegrated parts and parcels of the supreme whole, and they are no longer as important as the original parts and parcels. There are, however, more integrated living beings who are eternally liberated. The material energy of the Lord, called Durgā-śakti, or the superintendent of the prison house, takes charge of the disintegrated parts and parcels, and thus they undergo a conditioned life under the laws of material nature. When the living being becomes conscious of this fact, he tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and thus the spiritual urge of the living being begins. This spiritual urge is called brahma-jijñāsā, or inquiry about Brahman.

 

SB 1.9.44 purport

[bija]

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> The Lord is served by all His parts and parcels, as the complete machine is served by its parts and parcels. Any part of the machine removed from the whole is no longer important. Similarly, any part and parcel of the Absolute detached from the service of the Lord is useless. The living beings who are in the material world are all disintegrated parts and parcels of the supreme whole, and they are no longer as important as the original parts and parcels. There are, however, more integrated living beings who are eternally liberated. The material energy of the Lord, called Durgā-śakti, or the superintendent of the prison house, takes charge of the disintegrated parts and parcels, and thus they undergo a conditioned life under the laws of material nature. When the living being becomes conscious of this fact, he tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and thus the spiritual urge of the living being begins. This spiritual urge is called brahma-jijñāsā, or inquiry about Brahman. </td></tr></tbody></table>

 

so being integrated is the go then...?

[Sarva gattah]

 

Some say there are two classes of souls one is nitya siddha(eternally liberated) and the other is nitya baddha (eternally bound by matter).

 

Others like Srila Prabhupada tell us that nitya-baddha really means bound so long it seems beginningless.

 

I accept his explanation. If nitya baddha really means some souls are destined to be eternally conditioned then what is the point of preaching to the nitya baddha's by the liberated souls?

 

Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu

 

Srila Prabhupada "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami

 

Srila Prabhupada - ‘Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

[Sarva gattah]

Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, (NITYA-BADDHA) but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) you are not eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA).’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

[Sonic Yogi]

before we were conditioned nitya-baddha we were liberated spirit sparks of the brahmajyoti.

then, we blooped from the brahmajyoti and became nitya-baddha jivas.

 

In the simplest of terms, that is what happened.

 

The liberated associates of the Lord are immune from falldown.

Illusion or selfish desire has no play in the personal association of Krishna.

[Beggar]

So nitya in nitya baddha doesn't really mean eternal, it means, "almost eternal" or "from time immemorial". That is a clear example of a figurative use of a word. So in "nitya siddha" we will ask the question, "is that state literally 'eternal' or figuratively 'eternal'?" Krsna says twice in BG, yad gatva na nivartante, tad dhama paramam mama. The 1972 editions translation is [that abode of Mine] "one who reaches it never returns to this material world."

Also in the purport there is no mention of "na nivartante - never comes back". being anything but literal and factual and not figurative. In Revatianandana's Memories Video he reports that upon asking Srila Prabhupada about "never" in the "na nivartante" verses that Srila Prabhupada made an "impish grin" and said that never here mean essentially "almost never" and then he stressed the free will of the jiva to make a choice.

One day in 1981 I was listening to a Srila Prabhupada lecture and I heard him say at the beginning of his talk, "we are originally from the spiritual world, well not exactly, but that's another story." I have been looking for that lecture for well over a quarter of a century! For me I am of the understanding that the "impish grin" and the "that's another story" statement along with the statement, "everything you need to know is in my books", means that statements such as, "...never returns to the material world" and "no one ever falls from Vaikuntha" can be taken "as it is". To me the "impish grin" and "well, not exactly" indicate that for preaching purposes to the Christian based Western World, that Srila Prabhupada had created a strategy to speak sometimes in one way to his disciples and write for his disciples, the public and posterity in another way. It's clear that the what is in Prabhupada's books must take precedent. If we were to agree to limit the discussion to his books then things would proceed quite differently; Then Gaupagopal's campaign would immediately have the wind taken out of it's sails.

[Narasingh]

 

:deal:The two postulates can be translated to mathematics by using a schematic situation in which there are two reference frames which have a uniform motion with respect to each other (see the figure). If the second postulate is true, observers in both reference frames will measure the same speed of brahmajyoti light.

Simplified, the speed of light can be written as the covered distance x of a light signal, divided by the transit time t. With respect to a reference frame C a light signal propagates along the x-axis in positive direction, according to: x = ct (where c equals 300.000 km/sec)

The same light signal travels, also with respect to reference frame C' with a speed equal to c. With respect to C', the equation for the movement of the light signal then becomes x'=ct'. (x'=ct', representing nitya baddha)

The velocity v of frame C' with respect to frame C, can be calculated by dividing the covered distance along its x-axis by the transit time. Because of symmetry, v can be observed equally from within C and C'.

Do note that, from within C, at any point in time (co-ordinate) t>0, the co-ordinate x of the origin of C' will be smaller than the co-ordinate x of the front of the light signal.

To the entire derivation discussed in this article, it applies that C' coincides with C at co-ordinates t=0 and t'=0. The coordinates x and x' of the front of the light signal are at that very moment also equal to zero.

Because of the second postulate, we have to make concessions in relation to both the spatial properties of moving objects (in the form of a length-contraction), as well as to the concept of absolute time as it was generally conceived back then (resulting in a time-dilation in the moving reference frame).

The light signal (in figure above) moves uniformly rectilinear with respect to both reference frames. So we need to transform a uniformly rectilinear motion in C into another in C'. This means there must be a linear relation between co-ordinates x, y, z, t and x', y', z', t'. The most common form of this relation, as needed by, and according to the special theory of relativity, is as follows:

Note that the inclusion of the co-ordinates t and t' is specific to relativity theory: this is necessary if one hopes to find a transformation equation between them.

Because C' moves linearly along the x-axis of C, it always applies that y=y' and z=z'. From this follows for the coefficients:

Because of symmetry, t' can only depend on x, where x is nitya baddha and t,where t is nitya mukta. From this follows:

Then it is assumed that x'=0 in C' has to correspond with x=vt in C. It follows for the coefficients that:

When the coefficients in equations (1), (2), (3) and (4) are substituted by their values we get:

The falsity in this derivation can be located in the assumption that x'=0 has to correspond with x=vt.

The equations (1) up to and including (4) are the most general form of a linear transformation of four-dimensional space-time co-ordinates, of an event that is - events have a location in space, dependent on a time co-ordinate. At that point in the derivation this event is the observation from within C and from within C' of the spatial co-ordinates of any phenomenon (not necessarily the front of a light signal yet) in uniform, rectilinear motion, at a certain point in time which may be different to both observers.

We should not interpret x'=0 as being the origin of C', the reference frame itself, because when observed from within C' it is not an event in the intended sense: this x' is independent of time. Any assumed co-ordinate must relate to a proper event.

Therefore x'=0 for x=vt must apply to an event just coinciding with the origin of C', and is not a part of the reference frame C' itself. But only of the origins of the reference frames themselves we know for sure that the distance between them is vt: we do not know if the co-ordinate x of said proper event as observed from within C can transform to x'=0 as observed from within C', for an observed t co-ordinate (>0) relating to x according to x/t=v. After all, the derivation of the Lorentz (Kapila) equations is meant to be able to determine such a transformation in the end: we cannot assume it at the start.

So we must conclude that x'=0 for x=vt is an invalid assumption here.In effect, this falsifies the resulting transformation equations (14) and (15) as valid derivatives of the two postulates of the special theory of relativity of nitya baddha and nitya mukta. To Be Continued.

 

What??? LOL

[Sarva gattah]

Srila Prabhupada - “You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA).’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

[Beggar]

 

What??? LOL

 

[jeffster]

Nitya siddha + maya = nitya baddha.

Nitya baddha + purification = nitya siddha.

Just my U.S. $.02.

jeffster/AMd

[Beggar]

Die zwei Postulate können zur Mathematik übersetzt werden, indem man eine schematische Situation verwendet, in der es zwei Bezugsrahmen gibt, die eine konstante Bewegung in Bezug auf einander haben (sehen Sie die Abbildung). Wenn das zweite Postulat zutreffend ist, messen Beobachter in beiden Bezugsrahmen die gleiche Geschwindigkeit des brahmajyoti Lichtes. Vereinfacht, kann die Lichtgeschwindigkeit als der zurückgelegte Abstand x eines hellen Signals geschrieben werden, geteilt bis zum der Durchfahrtzeit T. in Bezug auf einen Bezugsrahmen C, das ein helles Signal entlang dem X-axis in der positiven Richtung fortpflanzt, entsprechend: x = ct (wo c 300.000 km/sec entspricht) Die gleichen Spielräume des hellen Signals, auch in Bezug auf Bezugsrahmen C' mit einer Geschwindigkeit gleich C. in Bezug auf C' , wird die Gleichung für die Bewegung des hellen Signals dann x' =ct'. (x' =ct' , nitya baddha darstellend) Die Geschwindigkeit V des Rahmens C' in Bezug auf Rahmen C, kann indem das Teilen des zurückgelegten Abstandes entlang seinem X-axis bis zum der Durchfahrtzeit berechnet werden. Wegen der Symmetrie kann v innerhalb von C und von C' gleichmäßig beobachtet werden;. Merken Sie dass, von innerhalb C, an jedem möglichem Zeitpunkt (koordinieren Sie), t> 0, die Koordinierung x des Ursprung von C' seien Sie kleiner als die Koordinierung x der Frontseite des hellen Signals.

 

Zur gesamten Ableitung, die in diesem Artikel besprochen, anwendet es dieses C' s; übereinstimmt mit C an koordiniert t=0 und t' ert; =0. Die Koordinaten x und x' von der Frontseite des hellen Signals seien Sie an diesem sehr Moment auch, der bis null gleich ist. Wegen des zweiten Postulats müssen wir Zugeständnisse in Beziehung zu beiden räumlichen Eigenschaften der Bewegung der Gegenstände (in Form einer Längekontraktion), sowie auf das Konzept der absoluten Zeit bilden, wie es im Allgemeinen damals begriffen (mit dem Ergebnis einer Zeitausdehnung im beweglichen Bezugsrahmen). Das helle Signal (in der Abbildung oben) verschiebt gleichmäßig geradliniges in Bezug auf beide Bezugsrahmen. So müssen wir eine gleichmäßig geradlinige Bewegung in C in andere in C' umwandeln;. Dies heißt, dass es eine lineare Relation zwischen geben muss koordiniert x, y, z, t und x' , y' , z' , t'. Die allgemeinste Form dieser Relation, wie vorbei gebraucht und entsprechend der speziellen Theorie der Relativität, ist, wie folgt: Merken Sie, dass die Einbeziehung von t und t' koordiniert; ist zur Relativitätstheorie spezifisch: dieses ist notwendig, wenn man hofft, eine Umwandlunggleichung zwischen ihnen zu finden. Weil C' bewegt linear entlang den X-axis von C, es anwendet immer dieses y=y' und z=z'. Von diesem folgt für die Koeffizienten: Wegen der Symmetrie t' kann von x nur abhängen, in dem x nitya baddha und t ist, in dem t nitya mukta ist. Von diesem folgt: Dann angenommen es dass x' s; =0 in C' muss mit x=vt in C. entsprechen. Es folgt für die Koeffizienten dem: Wenn die Koeffizienten in den Gleichungen (1), (2), (3) und (4) durch ihre Werte ersetzt, erhalten wir: Die Falschheit in dieser Ableitung kann in der Annahme befinden, die x' =0 muss mit x=vt entsprechen. Die Gleichungen (1) bis einschliesslich (4) sind die allgemeinste Form einer linearen Umwandlung des vierdimensionalen Zeit-raums koordiniert, von einem Ereignis, das ist - Ereignisse haben eine Position im Raum, der von einer Zeit abhängig ist, koordinieren. An diesem Punkt in der Ableitung ist dieses Ereignis die Beobachtung von innerhalb C und von innerhalb C' vom räumlichen koordiniert von jedem möglichem Phänomen (nicht notwendigerweise die Frontseite von einem hellen Signal dennoch) in der Uniform, geradlinige Bewegung, an einem bestimmten Zeitpunkt, der von beiden Beobachtern verschieden sein kann. Wir sollten x' nicht deuten; =0 als seiend der Ursprung von C' , der Bezugsrahmen selbst, weil, wenn Sie von innerhalb C' beobachtet; es ist nicht ein Ereignis in der beabsichtigten Richtung: dieses x' ist Unabhängiger der Zeit. Angenommene irgendwelche koordinieren müssen auf einem korrekten Ereignis beziehen.

 

Folglich x' =0 für x=vt muss auf ein Ereignis zutreffen, das gerade mit dem Ursprung von C' übereinstimmt; und nicht ist ein Teil des Bezugsrahmens C' selbst. Aber nur von den Ursprung der Bezugsrahmen selbst wissen wir sicher, dass der Abstand zwischen ihnen vt ist: wir wissen nicht, wenn die Koordinierung x des besagten korrekten Ereignisses, wie von innerhalb C beobachtet zu x' umwandeln kann; =0, wie von innerhalb C' beobachtet; , denn ein beobachtetes t koordinieren (> 0) in Bezug auf x entsprechend x/t=v. schließlich die Ableitung der Lorentz (Kapila) Gleichungen bedeutet, um in der Lage zu sein, solch eine Umwandlung im Ende festzustellen: wir können es nicht beim Anfang annehmen. So müssen wir feststellen dass x' =0 für x=vt ist eine unzulässige Annahme hier. In Wirklichkeit fälscht dieses die resultierenden Umwandlunggleichungen (14) und (15) als gültige Ableitungen der zwei Postulate der speziellen Theorie von Relativität von nitya baddha und von nitya mukta. Zu fortgesetzt werden. Letztes redigiert von Beggar: Gestern am 07:47 P.M. Grund: Ansturm der geisteskranken Gedanken

[Sonic Yogi]

Ok friends, it's time for me to drop a bomb of siddhanta on this topic and reveal a little known fact of spiritual knowledge.

 

This is of course not going to be accepted by those who prefer to put their head in the sand and pretend that Srila Prabhupada never actually put this in his books, but HE DID.

 

We did not FALL DOWN!!

We never fell down from anywhere, not even the brahmajyoti.

 

We came to the material world by THE WILL OF KRISHNA.

It was never our decision to make.

Krishna put us here out of his own sweet will.

 

The jiva souls don't fall down.

They are sent to the material world by the will of God.

 

For those who aren't to blind too read, here is how Srila Prabhupada explains it in the Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1 purport:

 

 

The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life, but he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called ātma-māyā. This has already been explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyāsadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord, and the living entities are controlled by the external energy — by the will of the Lord.

 

 

Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord in being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā (15.15) also the same thing is confirmed; the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity, and all the living entity's consciousness and forgetfulness are influenced by the Lord.

 

Now the next question automatically made will be why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be in his pure consciousness as a part and parcel of the Lord and thus be engaged in the loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made; but because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become as independent as the Lord is. All the nondevotee living entities are desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him. Like a person who thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualification, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forget his factual life and thus dream of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother, and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the reflection of the moon. Similarly, the crying child of the Lord is given over to the reflection, the material world, to lord it over as karmī and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history of when the living entity desired this. But the fact is that as soon as he desired it, he was put under the control of ātma-māyā by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is "mine" and this is "I." The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as "I" or falsely thinks that he is the Lord and that everything in connection with that material body is "mine." Thus only in dream does the misconception of "I" and "mine" persist life after life. This continues life after life, as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord.

In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream, and in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but that he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love.

 

So, the living entity has no power to enter prakriti or maya of his own power.

 

The conditioned jiva is sent to the material world by the will of Krishna because the living entity was not willing to serve the Lord in his position in the brahmajyoti. He just wanted to be neutral in shanta-rasa.

 

A tiny jiva with no spiritual knowledge does not fall down.

He is sent to the material world by the will of the Lord.

 

His forgetfulness is also because of Krishna:

 

 

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 15.15

 

sarvasya cāhaḿ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo

 

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaḿ ca

 

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo

 

vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham

 

SYNONYMS

 

sarvasya — of all living beings; ca — and; aham — I; hṛdi — in the heart; sanniviṣṭaḥ — situated; mattaḥ — from Me; smṛtiḥ — remembrance; jñānam — knowledge; apohanam — forgetfulness; ca — and; vedaiḥ — by the Vedas; ca — also; sarvaiḥ — all; aham — I am; eva — certainly; vedyaḥ — knowable; vedānta-kṛt — the compiler of the Vedānta; veda-vit — the knower of the Vedas; eva — certainly; ca — and; aham — I.

 

TRANSLATION

 

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.

 

If we forgot Krishna, it was because such forgetfulness came from Krishna.

If we forgot the brahmajyoti, it was because such forgetfulness came from Krishna.

 

Jivas don't "fall down" to the material world.

They are sent here from the brahmajyoti by the sweet will of Krishna.

 

No jiva has the power to break away from Krishna and try to become an imitation Lord.

Krishna is in complete control.

Nobody has any power to breach the control of Krishna.

His absolute control is invincible.

 

If the jiva forgets any position of any origin, it is because Krishna is the cause of such forgetfulness for his own purposes.

[bija]

aaah...the wisdom of God and his great plan Sonic. Love.

 

Nice post, thx.

[Beggar]

Just another angle of vision. Each angle is not the whole picture. Obviously when you think about it Krsna created the situation where the jivas can and do come to the material world. Therefore its ultimately by His Will and therefore the jivas coming to material world and changing bodies here, is another one of His lilas.

[theist]

 

The conditioned jiva is sent to thematerial world by the will of Krishna because the living entity was notwilling to serve the Lord in his position in the brahmajyoti. He justwanted to be neutral in shanta-rasa.

 

 

Krishna has no feelings of resentment with those who are satisfied in shanta rasa. What a strange idea.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.5.6

 

yathā punaḥ sve kha idaḿ niveśya

 

śete guhāyāḿ sa nivṛtta-vṛttiḥ

 

yogeśvarādhīśvara eka etad

 

anupraviṣṭo bahudhā yathāsīt

 

SYNONYMS

 

yathā — as much as; punaḥ — again; sve — in His; khe — form of space (virāṭ-rūpa); idam — this; niveśya — entering into; śete — lies down; guhāyām — within the universe; saḥ — He (the Personality of Godhead); nivṛtta — without endeavor; vṛttiḥ — means of livelihood; yoga-īśvara — the master of all mystic powers; adhīśvaraḥ — proprietor of everything; ekaḥ — one without a second; etat — this; anupraviṣṭaḥ — entering afterwards; bahudhā — by innumerable; yathā — as much as; āsīt — exists.

 

TRANSLATION

 

He lies down on His own heart spread in the form of the sky, and thus placing the whole creation in that space, He expands Himself into many living entities, which are manifested as different species of life. He does not have to endeavor for His maintenance, because He is the master of all mystic powers and the proprietor of everything. Thus He is distinct from the living entities.

 

PURPORT

 

The questions regarding creation, maintenance and destruction, which are mentioned in many parts of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, are in relation to different millenniums (kalpas), and therefore they are differently described by different authorities when questioned by different students. There is no difference regarding the creative principles and the Lord's control over them, yet there are some differences in the minute details because of different kalpas. The gigantic sky is the material body of the Lord, called the virāṭ-rūpa, and all material creations are resting on the sky, or the heart of the Lord. Therefore, beginning from the sky, the first material manifestation to the gross vision, down to the earth, everything is called Brahman. Sarvaḿ khalv idaḿ brahma: "There is nothing but the Lord, and He is one without a second." The living entities are the superior energies, whereas matter is the inferior energy, and the combination of these energies brings about the manifestation of this material world, which is in the heart of the Lord.

 

 

The Lord expands himself into all the living entities.

There is no falling down going on.

 

Quite simply all the jivas are expanded from Lord Vishnu.

 

I like the way Maitreya Muni describes it to Vidura.

 

None of the fire-and-brimstone falling down business like we hear so much in modern times.

[bija]

Resentment, what a strange idea. I don't think Sonic is suggesting that.

 

God desires reciprocation, relationship, and love. Maybe it is only natural that some of his parts situated in santa rasa, move into friendship etc. The Gaudiya philsophy has suggested that - see Brhad Bhagavatamrta.

 

Love is progressive and ever-new. Soul is dynamic and potent, not inert.

 

As Beggar is suggesting vision of this world may depend on our angle of vision. If we are conditioned and suffering the world may appear as a prison house. If we are Krsna conscious the world may be seen as Vaikuntha (realizing the Supreme Person's design). The teachers have presented various angles for us to contemplate.

 

Remember, we are parts and parcels of that great Personality. How can God resent himself?

[theist]

 

Resentment, what a strange idea. I don't think Sonic is suggesting that.

 

Oh is it? It is exactly what is portrayed in his statement, rather he sees it yet or not.

 

Krishna reciprocates with the soul as the soul desires. Envies Krishna - he comes to the material side.

 

Wants to quietly appreciate the beauty andoother qualities of Krishna with consciousness fixed on Krishna he is placed in shanta rasa. There is no punishment for someone in shanta rasa like being sentenced to life in samsara. That is crazy.

 

You know someone in santa rasa can develop a taste for another rasa like friendship and Krishna will accept that loving relationship also.

 

Massive speculation on this board.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Resentment, what a strange idea. I don't think Sonic is suggesting that.

 

God desires reciprocation, relationship, and love. Maybe it is only natural that some of his parts situated in santa rasa, move into friendship etc. The Gaudiya philsophy has suggested that - see Brhad Bhagavatamrta.

 

Love is progressive and ever-new. Soul is dynamic and potent, not inert.

 

As Beggar is suggesting vision of this world may depend on our angle of vision. If we are conditioned and suffering the world may appear as a prison house. If we are Krsna conscious the world may be seen as Vaikuntha (realizing the Supreme Person's design). The teachers have presented various angles for us to contemplate.

 

Remember, we are parts and parcels of that great Personality. How can God resent himself?

Well said.

Krishna is always expanding his enjoyment and helping living entities rise up and out of the brahmajyoti to become personal servants.

 

In the short run it appears quite painful for the jiva, but in the end his position is greatly improved and his bliss increased a millionfold.

 

Taking sparks from the brahmajyoti and evolving them into loving relationships and elevating the jiva to higher levels is the work and the play of the Lord.

 

It has nothing to do with resentment.

I never suggested any such thing.

 

Theist is trying to put words in my mouth for his own reasons that aren't very noble.

[bija]

yes it is sonic...infact it is our destiny as a collective spiritual organism. it is already perfect...we just need to see.

[Sonic Yogi]

See, the "fall-down" theory is about a mean and vengeful God who sends all the bad souls to Hell for millions of years.

 

Actually, Lord Krishna is not mean or vengeful or jealous God.

 

The material world is his wonderful greenhouse where he takes seeds of souls and grows them into loving servants to assist him in his unlimited blissful enjoyment.

 

Of course, not every living entity cooperates in this project and they rebel once they get here, but in the end all the souls are forced to advance by the stringent laws of Mother Nature.

 

The fire-and-brimstone "fall down" theory might have been seen as a good approach in the western Judeo-Christian world.

 

But, not all the Vedic authorities present the creation in such light.

 

I personally rejected the "fall-down" theory a long time ago.

[bija]

the christian idea of eternal damnation, or the idea of nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)...may simply mean an inconceivably long time!