Obama to Lift Ban on Overseas Abortion Funding

[Amlesh]

 

What exactly are you implying? "no offense again" yearh right...

 

The overall consequences, not just controversial or pleasing judgment.

Moral values are inculcated from generation to generation. The parents being the first institution.

 

exactly we are debating and you call me a drunk sex baboon out of thin air.

 

It is what to want me to perceive you.

Your thinking says so.

 

 

Try talk to the girl about how she really felt about it, she must be ruined. Offcause the child should not be blamed but the stress of the girl carrying a baby under such circumstances should offcause be avoided in self defense of the girl.

2 Different Issues.

[Soma Juice]

 

The overall consequences, not just controversial or pleasing judgment.

Moral values are inculcated from generation to generation. The parents being the first institution.

 

Yes but the same can i properly say about you and your values so this dont prove your point.

 

It is what to want me to perceive you.

Your thinking says so.

 

my posts never said anything about me being drunk or some crazy sex baboon so stop writing such shit, but okay you have removed it now fine... you cant argue against sex is natural, and a good way for human beings to show love in my opinion. But i think all you can do is tell me how ignorant i am i guess.

 

2 Different Issues.

No it is not diffrent issues, because if you get your way and abortion is illegal a person who posible can give birth to the child would be forced to have it so you would harm other people with the law! but what is most important a life that has not devolped any self or a living human life

[Amlesh]

 

Yes but the same can i properly say about you and your values so this dont prove your point.

Not my values. Values are as old as hills and mountains.

 

my posts never said anything about me being drunk or some crazy sex baboon so stop writing such shit, but okay you have removed it now fine... you cant argue against sex is natural, and a good way for human beings to show love in my opinion. But i think all you can do is tell me how ignorant i am i guess.

 

Virginity does not matter to you before marriage says it all, drunken fella.

My idea about virginity was based solely on the purity of a maiden.

BTW, boozing factory, I don't have anything against sex.. but it should be properly regulated.

At least not before marriage.

 

No it is not diffrent issues, because if you get your way and abortion is illegal a person who posible can give birth to the child would be forced to have it so you would harm other people with the law! but what is most important a life that has not devolped any self or a living human life

The proper judgment with time and circumstance.

[Soma Juice]

 

Not my values. Values are as old as hills and mountains.

 

 

Ohh haha you are trying to get me pissed or what? In Denmark nobody cares if the girl is a virgin before marriage, because noone is, in denmark a sexual relationship allways comes before marriage. Fine we live diffrently but show some respect! you can easly insult my way but you are very sensitive about your old values yourself!

How can girls ever find someone to love the rest of her life if she cant show love? The virginity rule is good to keep your girl at home never seeing boys that might get her in love, doing her duties learning the moral codes and when she is old enough to be marriaged to some stranger for the benefit of the family she will be.

This was good and practical way back in time as it insurred the girl a good life but we evolve and our way of life should too.

I just say i dont give a shit about marriage all i care about is that people love each other! And sex is a way to love another person.

can you tell me why keeping girls virginity before marriage is not SEXIST.

 

And you still have not told how Abortion and Chastity is connected or how abortion is being used by poeple as prevention, or why it is a big deal to end a life before it is startet?

[Amlesh]

 

Ohh haha you are trying to get me pissed or what?

 

Not yet.. hahahahaha.. If I had really started, you would have taken a different avatar name.

 

 

I bet you come from india

 

From Mauritius.

 

 

but in Denmark nobody wants the girl to be a virgin only very little minority of some christian groups, and how can girls ever find someone to love the rest of her life if she cant show love? The virginity rule is good to keep your girl at home never seeing boys that might get her in love, doing her duties learning the moral codes and when she is old enough to be marriaged to some stranger for the benefit of the family she will be. I dont know with you but i didnt want to do it this way and thats why i dont care about virginity? Okay? It is not like say anything controversial here i just say i dont give a shit about marraiage all i care about is that people love each other! And sex is a way to love another person.

can you tell me why keeping girls virginity before marriage is not SEXIST.

When one learns his limit, nothing seems restrictions.

 

BTW, this is spiritual forum.. I guess, you've mistaken that with sexual. Please take the trouble to re-see that.

Your ways of viewing things is not the uncommon way.. see outside, many dogs like you are in this mind frame.

Why spiritual forums are created, piggy bank?

IT is to some of the dogs outside become human.

By the way, whisky juice, you are the first nincompoop I met in this forum.

[Amlesh]

I bet you are from Denmark.

[Soma Juice]

this is not going anywhere

[theist]

 

No it is not diffrent issues, becauseif you get your way and abortion is illegal a person who posible cangive birth to the child would be forced to have it so you would harmother people with the law! but what is most important a life that hasnot devolped any self or a living human life

 

 

What makes you think the fetus developing in the womb of a human is not human? This is a very important point.

 

And how can you say there is no self there when all logic and science say that there is.

 

These are two points we need to discuss.

[Soma Juice]

It is in the process of becoming a human, but because it is in such a early state just like a egg or sperm cell it has not the rights of a human. yes there is some form of self just like in all other living things but in such a low way that i cant see the problem in stopping the birth before the life evolve into a human. To me it is some kind of necesary evil just like killing an animal for food when there is no plants to eat.

[bija]

 

...Denmark... by soma

 

My grandfather was born in Denmark...not a virgin before he met the one...and was deported from the U.S. for running moon-shine during the prohibition. A boozer indeed.

 

Considering Amlesh' logic I would be an uncultured product of forefathers...he's right:)!

[theist]

 

It is in the process of becoming a human,...

 

Process is your argument? An unborn one minute prior to coming forth from the womb is in the process. A child is the process of becoming a man and that man is in the process of death.

 

Where EXACTLY do you draw the line.

 

And if you can't answer with a scientific certainty than you have no basis for killing the child in the womb.

 

We will take one point at a time if you don't mind.

[bija]

The tibetan book of the dead suggests that the entity in bardo re-enters the new body at 49 days. Interestingly enough modern science has found that dmt activates within the pineal gland of the foetus at 49 days.

 

We know what DMT does... and that has nothing to do with booze, it exists within many living organisms.

[Amlesh]

 

My grandfather was born in Denmark...not a virgin before he met the one...and was deported from the U.S. for running moon-shine during the prohibition. A boozer indeed.

 

Considering Amlesh' logic I would be an uncultured product of forefathers...he's right:)!

 

hmmm... My logic fails when it comes to someone surrendered to Sri Krishna.

[suchandra]

Quite strong article by ISKCON:

 

The Putana Syndrome and the Second Coming

of Adolf Hitler BY: BALA KRSNA DAS (ACBSP)

Feb 02, SARANAGATI, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA (SUN) — All devotees are familiar with Putana Lila. Putana was, in fact, an extremely powerful demon - perhaps the most powerful of all demons at the time of Krsna’s presence on the planet 5,000 years ago. Even Kamsa could not defeat her and therefore, as demons are apt to do, he made an alliance with her. Although she was of the grotesquely ugly rakshasa race, she had mystic powers not normally available to humans. In modern terminology, she was a shape-shifter - she could transform her physical appearance at will and take on any form that the occasion called for.

When Kamsa called on her to kill Krsna, she shifted her body into that of a very beautiful woman who could speak sweet words. By this tactic, even as a complete stranger, she was able to completely fool the inhabitants of Vraja, who allowed her to move at will through the crowd and into the home of Nanda Maharaj and Mother Yasoda, where she picked up Baby Krsna. Taking her actions and words at face value, it did not occur to the good-hearted devotees that it was actually her motive to kill Krsna.

A similar phenomena in the Vaisnava world is currently taking place as an alarming number of devotees, especially from the second generation, are expressing endorsement and allegiance to Barack Obama. It is the Putana Syndrome once again, being captivated by a pretty face, big smile and sweet words - charisma that veils a sinister motive. (Of course, in the case Krsna Lila it was all due to the influence of yoga maya.) Even some devotees with a degree of understanding, who should know better, have said things like "Well, at least he’s not Bush", and "Well, at least it’s great to see such a new spirit of hope."

No, he’s not Bush - he’s potentially far more dangerous; and what is the use of ‘hope’ if it is based on a lie? In fact, what use is ‘hope’ at all? Obama’s wife, Michelle, says that "everything begins and ends with hope." Utter nonsense! Hope is a meaningless emotion because its fruits are always in the future and, by definition, never in the now. Hope is like riding a carousel horse; no matter how fast you go, you never get closer to the one in front. The idea, however, is to persuade you to stay on the horse, in spite of the inevitable disappointment, in the 'hope' that things will change. But they don’t, because the very system is designed to prevent it.

Besides ‘hope’, there are the other two mind-control trigger words - ‘believe’ and ‘change’. Obama’s mantras - his massively funded, record-breaking campaign has been based on these words - the same mantras and techniques used by Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Adolf Hitler in their ascent to power. “Hope” for what? “Change” what? and “Believe” in what? These are especially important questions for devotees of Krsna who supposedly have embraced the values and world-view of the Vedas as taught by Srila Prabhupada. Certainly the Vedic perspective will never be gleaned from a steady diet of watching CNN or other mainstream media.

“Judge a man by the company he keeps.” Applying this principle, one should look at the people Obama has surrounded himself with. Virtually every single one of the whole network of advisors and controllers he has assembled are recycled power elites from previous administrations and institutions, and their policies and opinions are already in the public record. Virtually all of them are members of the semi-secret organizations: CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), Trilateral Commission, and Bilderbergers. Membership in at least one of these organizations has been a prerequisite to the inner circle of all administrations for the past many years, thus insuring that no real meaningful change ever takes place other than what furthers their agenda.

Obama’s advisors are no exception - all of them are steeped in the art of manipulating minds, opinions and actions. Devotees of Krsna should familiarize themselves with the values and goals of these organizations. By doing so they will be better equipped to discern the “doublespeak” coming from the lips of Obama and the propaganda machines of the media. I can assure you the values of theism and “In God We Trust” will not be found in their world views. There are many advisors with various titles such as Economic Recovery Advisory, National Security Advisor and Chief of Staff. Details of the history of each of these personalities is accessible and can be researched. In doing so, a very different picture emerges than the one painted by mainstream media - and isn’t a pretty picture.

 

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The whole Obama circus has been so successful because so many people live their lives in a permanent state of trance (and we are not talking about Samadhi here) - which brings me to the parallels with Nazi Germany, fascist Italy, and similar regimes throughout history - and now fascist America. Obama may not look like Hitler, nor sound like Hitler, but the themes are just the same. Germany was in a terrible state economically and militarily in the 1930’s in the aftermath of the first World War, and the reparations imposed on the country by the Versailles ‘Peace Conference’ in 1919. From amid the chaos came the man that Germans saw then in much the same way that so many see Obama today. His name was Adolf Hitler and his oratory and rhetoric, supported by a ritualistic presentation founded in mind-control techniques, made him appear to be the German ‘messiah’, the German Obama…

 

<center> </center>

Hitler promised ‘change’, ‘hope’, and something to ‘believe’ in amidst the consequences of war and financial collapse. He spoke to the vast rallies of adoring followers and a mass movement emerged in support of Hitler’s vision of a new tomorrow. It has been pointed out that fascism in its true sense is not just a police state imposed by a tiny hierarchy. It may end up like that, but first it is brought to power by a mass movement from within the people, who have no understanding of what the 'change, hope, and believe' they are being offered really means. They just know that they want some because, as with Obama, they make it mean what they want it to mean. Only later do they see, to their horror, what they signed up for.

One of Obama’s (and his controllers') prime targets are the young, just as they were with the Nazis and the Hitler Youth Movement. Obama said in a speech in July in Colorado Springs that he wanted a civilian national security force that would be more powerful and well-funded than the Marines, Navy and Air Force put together. He wants mandatory sacrifices and public service from all teenagers, wearing uniforms - straight out of Hitler’s workbook. Obama is a front-man demagogue for the same behind the scenes forces that controlled Boy Bush, Clinton, Father Bush, Reagan, etc., but the difference is that he has been hyped to such proportions that he will be allowed to get away with far more than they were - at least until reality dawns on the mass ranks of his hypnotized supporters. And clearly, that could take some time.

Apart from ‘hope’, ‘change’, and ‘believe’, few have any idea what Obama’s policies will be . Public perception of him comes from having an image of him, not from the fine print, because Obama doesn’t do fine print. He is keeping it well hidden behind his windbag sweet words. There is an image that Obama is against war, but he most certainly is not. Again, without going into detail, read the fine print. We can expect even more foreign conflicts, with the troops sent to their deaths, and the deaths of their targets, on a wave of oratory.

Obama claims to be a ‘uniter’, which is exactly what Bush said about himself before he came to office, but unity in and of itself is not the issue. Nazi Germany had unity in the early years of the war, inspired by the oratory of Hitler, but was that a good thing? What matters is what the unity is designed to achieve. Once again, read the fine print (and again you won’t find the fine print in the mainstream media). It can be used to ‘unite’ the believers in their opposition and condemnation of non-believers, which is precisely what happened in Nazi Germany with the book-burnings and violent suppression of those who challenged the Hitler regime. The potential for Obama Mania is endless when it comes to selling fascism as ‘hope’, ‘change’, ‘freedom’, and a new America. The framework for full-fledged fascism is already in place. Legislation implemented by recent administrations has cemented that. Meaningful democracy and the constitution are history.

At this point I must pose the question: does anyone really believe that someone, ‘a man of the people’ could simply appear from apparently nowhere and run the slickest and best-funded presidential campaign in American history? Again, look at the cabal behind him and those appointed to his administration team to see what Obama’s ‘change’ is truly planned to be. Especially take a close look at his mentor and guru, Zbignew Brzezinski, a relationship going back 25 years to college days when he attended the Ivy League Columbia University, where Brzezinski was head of the Institute for Communist Affairs. Zbig went on to be Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor and he is also the co-founder, along with David Rockefeller, of the Trilateral Commission. Obama’s policies come straight from Brzezinski’s books.*

Brzezinski is definitely one of the select high-priest acaryas of the Dark Side. Obama was selected - not elected - and he is their puppet. What ‘change’ can we really expect under the circumstances? Changing from Pepsi Cola to Coca Cola is no real change at all. Of course we will see some apparently good things announced, like the closing of Guantanamo, to give the impression that Obama means what he says. And there will be some apparently good environmental changes made, but you can be sure they will be superficial, not getting close to the issues and problems that real people the world over are having due to American hegemony. But keep your eye on the ball and you’ll see how the agenda for tyranny is introduced under the guise of ‘hope’, ‘change’, ‘believe’, ‘sacrifice’ and ‘coming together’. It may take two years or more before the Obama faithful realize that they bought a dream and got a nightmare.

But devotees of Krsna should not be caught up in that dream or nightmare. The world view of devotees should be neither to the left nor to the right. A devotees’ world view should be entirely apart, transcendental to the illusory workings of this material world. Whatever happened to the revolutionary world view as taught, instilled and inspired by Srila Prabhupada - a social, political, economic and spiritual system called daivi varnasrama? When will devotees ‘come together’, make the necessary ‘sacrifices’, and ‘believe’ that such a transcendental dream can be realized? Let us ‘hope’ and pray that another 30 years does not pass and the transcendental dream of our beloved spiritual master fades into a nightmare of another mainstream religion.

 

* Between Two Ages: America’s Role In The Technetronic Era

[bija]

 

hmmm... My logic fails when it comes to someone surrendered to Sri Krishna.

no. really driftin' at the moment....far away the good feel. evident in the lashing i gave chandu yesterday.

 

grew up on the wrong side of town...born with a bad sign...ill positioned body marks...and always get out of the wrong side of bed:crazy:. and what can go wrong always does...! the hoodoo, not the guru...

 

*****************************************************************************************

 

 

 

your values and morals may be out of vogue for some...but keep to em amlesh..oneday people will flock to a better way.

[Amlesh]

 

no. really driftin' at the moment....far away the good feel. evident in the lashing i gave chandu yesterday.

Chandu is a fine person and he also is not afraid in conveying his understanding.

So worry not. In this Forum, the best thing is each one is sweet but none indulges in diplomatic talks. Frankness is the trade mark of this sublime cyber corner.

We've learn many things down here.

 

grew up on the wrong side of town...born with a bad sign...ill positioned body marks...and always get out of the wrong side of bed:crazy:. and what can go wrong always does...! the hoodoo, not the guru...

 

*****************************************************************************************

 

That's why instinctively and without knowing you much, many down here adhere you as Mr Audarya.

True worship, you depicted. You never ask from Sri Hari. You know well that Krishna is meant to be served.

It is the reason why we never see a tinge of frustration, tiredness, and other undesirable things in your posts.

Always refreshing.

 

 

your values and morals may be out of vogue for some...but keep to em amlesh..oneday people will flock to a better way.

To be true, I'm never against people who thinks otherwise. Like Lord Jesus said, "Hate the sin and not the sinner."

I also was never born with such moral thinking, but I thought that Purity held its own outstanding beauty and also I don't want to participate in the transgression for the future generation.

I'm still unclean but cherish the idea to see myself clean one day..

[bija]

 

but I thought that Purity held its own outstanding beauty

yeah...that intent will bring peace of mind. a tiny fragment of that part of god are good times.

 

 

also I don't want to participate in the transgression for the future generation.

too right...some native americans hold in mind up to 9 generations in the future. in their way.

[Soma Juice]

 

My grandfather was born in Denmark...not a virgin before he met the one...and was deported from the U.S. for running moon-shine during the prohibition. A boozer indeed.

 

Considering Amlesh' logic I would be an uncultured product of forefathers...he's right:)!

 

yearh okay Denmark is known for drinking alot beer since the vikings hehe but im not a boozer though..

 

Theist:

You are right a life is startet, but i draw the line when the fetus is still in the early stages and it is wantet unborn because of bad circumstances.

I just wonder why the human life is need to be keept alive when a, lets say a rape victim is pragnant. I think the social aspect is more important that the moral. And it is more important not to ruin anybodies present lifes than ending a life in very early stages with no recollection of anything.

[Soma Juice]

 

To be true, I'm never against people who thinks otherwise. Like Lord Jesus said, "Hate the sin and not the sinner."

hmmm, sorry but i didnt quite get that impression earlier:idea:

[theist]

 

yearh okay Denmark is known for drinking alot beer since the vikings hehe but im not a boozer though..

 

Theist:

You are right a life is startet, but i draw the line when the fetus is still in the early stages and it is wantet unborn because of bad circumstances.

I just wonder why the human life is need to be keept alive when a, lets say a rape victim is pragnant. I think the social aspect is more important that the moral. And it is more important not to ruin anybodies present lifes than ending a life in very early stages with no recollection of anything.

 

 

There are a few very important points you are missing here Soma that I hope you consider carefully.

 

 

First you are not figuring the results of the act of abortion when you say that you do not want to ruin any bodies life. To abort another in the womb means that in the future you yourself will have to experience being aborted in the womb. So you have helped even the woman who so-called rights you are trying to protect. Indeed now her future will be bleak because of her sinful action of child killing.

 

 

 

Karma is not a joke it is a reality. Once you understand that you have to factor it in to everything.

 

 

 

 

If you look carefully you will note that I am more concerned with the fate of the woman committing the abortion than the aborted. The aborted had just paid their debt while the aborter has just made a pact with the devil and now must pay the price.

 

 

 

Also there is an abundance of women who had abortions when young who now are tormented by the fact that they killed their own child in their womb. So even in this life they are caused much distress.

 

 

You see the human form of life is an extremely rare and precious oppurtunity for the conditioned soul to become self realized and make progress in God consciousness. To deny someone that chance is extremely sinful and demonic.

 

 

I know in our materialistic culture we have been taught the opposite but we have been taught wrong.

[Soma Juice]

.

[Soma Juice]

How do you know that you are beeing aborted your self? i just cant think in that way if there isnt any evidence because i dont consider it particular sinfull. Not evidence of the law of karma but how sinfull this action is.

[theist]

 

How do you know that you are beeing aborted your self? i just cant think in that way if there isnt any evidence because i dont consider it particular sinfull. Not evidence of the law of karma but how sinfull this action is.

 

 

Hi Soma,

 

 

 

I don't understand your first sentence.

 

 

Ok you don't consider it sinful. No problem but if you believe in the law of karma then surelyyou would have to admit that in the future one who commits abortion will be aborted themselves. What we sow we shall surely reap.

 

 

 

But since you consider it no big deal to abort someone surely you will think it no big deal when it is your turn to be chopped up by a scalpel while helpless in the womb.

[Soma Juice]

I meant how can you be sure that if you abort a child then you are destined to be aborted in a future life? Yes it makes some bad karma but how much? is the circumstances of the kill not important? I have never understood the law of karma as you present it i have thought it as more like a combination of negative and positive factors.

[suchandra]

 

I meant how can you be sure that if you abort a child then you are destined to be aborted in a future life? Yes it makes some bad karma but how much? is the circumstances of the kill not important? I have never understood the law of karma as you present it i have thought it as more like a combination of negative and positive factors.

Good point, there must be a difference. The vedas say that the mental situation of a child is determined by the mental situation of the parents at the time when they make the child. In other words, if a young woman is raped by a convicted murderer who escaped from prison, the child will later on also become like his father. On the other hand, if Paris Hilton has a lover and gets pregnant, to abort in this case creates surely a totally different karma.