Obama to Lift Ban on Overseas Abortion Funding

[theist]

 

I meant how can you be sure that if you abort a child then you are destined to be aborted in a future life? Yes it makes some bad karma but how much? is the circumstances of the kill not important? I have never understood the law of karma as you present it i have thought it as more like a combination of negative and positive factors.

Well I am certainly not an expert on karma but it is a basic fact that what we do to others will be done to us. Call it good bad or neutral the same the similar will happen to us. This is karma at it's most basic level of understanding. If you don't accept this then you don't accept karma.

 

Obviously there are individual considerations in each case but that is not understandable by us and therefore useless to try to speculate on.

 

Here is a question for you. We see millions of abortions every year around the world. Why do you think some souls are made to experience such a thing as being aborted if not for taking part in abortion in their past?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Good point, there must be a difference. The vedas say that the mental situation of a child is determined by the mental situation of the parents at the time when they make the child. In other words, if a young woman is raped by a convicted murderer who escaped from prison, the child will later on also become like his father. On the other hand, if Paris Hilton has a lover and gets pregnant, to abort in this case creates surely a totally different karma.

 

So then your saying it would be ok to abort under a condition? Say like rape?

 

RCB

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Well I am certainly not an expert on karma but it is a basic fact that what we do to others will be done to us. Call it good bad or neutral the same the similar will happen to us. This is karma at it's most basic level of understanding. If you don't accept this then you don't accept karma.

 

Obviously there are individual considerations in each case but that is not understandable by us and therefore useless to try to speculate on.

 

Here is a question for you. We see millions of abortions every year around the world. Why do you think some souls are made to experience such a thing as being aborted if not for taking part in abortion in their past?

 

Good points, Krsna! your so patient. I'm looking for a stick!!! LOL.

 

RCB

[chandu_69]

 

Good point, there must be a difference. The vedas say that the mental situation of a child is determined by the mental situation of the parents at the time when they make the child. In other words, if a young woman is raped by a convicted murderer who escaped from prison, the child will later on also become like his father. On the other hand, if Paris Hilton has a lover and gets pregnant, to abort in this case creates surely a totally different karma.

Excellent point.It is stupid and unethical to expect a rape victim to bring the child in to the world .

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Excellent point.It is stupid and unethical to expect a rape victim to bring the child in to the world .

 

It is stupid and unethical to trunckate anyone's karma by the very unqualified. I've never read of anyone being qualified to decside about abortion. If you look at what Srila Prabhupada says on the subject, then how to argue against?

 

That Vidura told Dhrtarastra to kill Duryodana is prime example of the right course of action. The child was born, karma was asertained, future was distruction of the royal family, kill it now. Instruction from the saintly person though.

 

That was for the top most santly person to say, not your opinion or mine, which is like other parts of the body that we all poscess. And has no bases in shastra. Vidura's conclutions are not like common mans opinions.

 

You do not have any right to abort a child in the womb because of rape. His karma is to come to a body created out of rape. That is now you business? It is his karma and the mother. That's like a woman saying she has self determination on how her body is to be used, but sex is for procreation and not recreation. If there is sex and pregnancy, then she has to have the child or be culpible for the karma of abortion. I'm not condoning rape, but now a body is created it has to be born. That is the rules, no killing womb babies.

 

Hare Krsna, RCB

[suchandra]

 

Good points, Krsna! your so patient. I'm looking for a stick!!! LOL.

 

RCB

When the devas captured Hiranyakasipu's wife, they decided to keep her imprisoned and wait till the child is born and then kill him. This decision by the devas is surely in full accordance with Manu-samhita and vedic knowledge.

Narada Muni would have never told the devas to not kill the child when the child would have been a similar demon like his father Hiranyakasipu.

 

TRANSLATION

King Indra said: In the womb of this woman, the wife of the demon Hiraṇyakasipu, is the seed of that great demon. Therefore, let her remain in our custody until her child is delivered, and then we shall release her.

 

PURPORT

Indra, the King of heaven, decided to arrest Prahlada Maharaja’s mother because he thought that another demon, another Hiraṇyakasipu, was within her womb. The best course, he thought, was to kill the child when the child was born, and then the woman could be released.

 

SB 7.7.10

[bhaktatraveler]

 

When the devas captured Hiranyakasipu's wife, they decided to keep her imprisoned and wait till the child is born and then kill him. This decision by the devas is surely in full accordance with Manu-samhita and vedic knowledge.

Narada Muni would have never told the devas to not kill the child when the child would have been a similar demon like his father Hiranyakasipu.

 

TRANSLATION

King Indra said: In the womb of this woman, the wife of the demon Hiraṇyakasipu, is the seed of that great demon. Therefore, let her remain in our custody until her child is delivered, and then we shall release her.

 

PURPORT

Indra, the King of heaven, decided to arrest Prahlada Maharaja’s mother because he thought that another demon, another Hiraṇyakasipu, was within her womb. The best course, he thought, was to kill the child when the child was born, and then the woman could be released.

 

SB 7.7.10

 

Yes, Prahlada was aloud to take birth. Then the devas could kill him. But again we are talking very exhaulted personallities making the discision to kill. Not common men.

 

RCB

[Soma Juice]

 

Well I am certainly not an expert on karma but it is a basic fact that what we do to others will be done to us. Call it good bad or neutral the same the similar will happen to us. This is karma at it's most basic level of understanding. If you don't accept this then you don't accept karma.

So if i am a african wildman and kill an animal and eat it will it create the same the karma as if i just did it for fun?

 

Here is a question for you. We see millions of abortions every year around the world. Why do you think some souls are made to experience such a thing as being aborted if not for taking part in abortion in their past?

[theist]

 

So if i am a african wildman and kill an animal and eat it will it create the same the karma as if i just did it for fun?

 

Apples and oranges. Let's stick to human abortion.

 

I look forward to to your answer.

[suchandra]

 

Yes, Prahlada was aloud to take birth. Then the devas could kill him. But again we are talking very exhaulted personallities making the discision to kill. Not common men.

 

RCB

No, the devas thought it is another demon, they did not know that Prahlada Maharaja is in the womb. Only when Narada Muni told them it is a Vaishnava about to take birth, they agreed to not kill the newborn baby. In other words, the devas draw the conclusion that the child is a demon from the fact that his father is a demon. Because the devas were right, Narada Muni went there and told them, in this particular case, to not kill the child.

[theist]

 

No, the devas thought it is another demon, they did not know that Prahlada Maharaja is in the womb. Only when Narada Muni told them it is a Vaishnava about to take birth, they agreed to not kill the newborn baby. In other words, the devas draw the conclusion that the child is a demon from the fact that his father is a demon. Because the devas were right, Narada Muni went there and told them, in this particular case, to not kill the child.

 

From this you extrapolate that abortion is somehow permissable in a situation where the woman's life is not at stake?

 

One problem with using this story as an example of today's situation on Earth..... no devas to make the decision.

[suchandra]

 

From this you extrapolate that abortion is somehow permissable in a situation where the woman's life is not at stake?

 

One problem with using this story as an example of today's situation on Earth..... no devas to make the decision.

Sorry, yes, went too far. Right, kalau sudra sambhava, too many demons/sudras/asuras/raksasas/ naradhamas/pasandis take birth in this age to use this logic.

[chandu_69]

 

It is stupid and unethical to trunckate anyone's karma by the very unqualified. I've never read of anyone being qualified to decside about abortion. If you look at what Srila Prabhupada says on the subject, then how to argue against?

 

Ofcourse we are not qualified to decide upon; but the rape victim should have the option.

 

 

That Vidura told Dhrtarastra to kill Duryodana is prime example of the right course of action.

This example differs totally and cannot be compared to the plight of a rape victim.

[theist]

Please accepts my respects Suchandra-ji.

[primate]

If abortion is subject to strict Karmic laws, then there must always be abortions..

[theist]

 

If abortion is subject to strict Karmic laws, then there must always be abortions..

 

This is the material world. There will also be murders by stabbing, gunfire, arrows and bombs also.

 

The best one can do is tell the truth about the evil of abortion in hope of saving at least that individual from traveling the viscious circle of abort then be aborted.

 

Some actions lead towards God consciousness and some actions lead away from it.

 

One who is at least a little intelligent will error on the side of caution.

[Soma Juice]

 

Apples and oranges. Let's stick to human abortion.

 

I look forward to to your answer.

Why ? dont the circumstances around the action play a role? in the scenario with the killing of the animal the circumstances of the action plays a big role why not when talking abortion?

 

 

I thought about it long but i dont know why... what about children who die of some strange birth defect a few days after they are born? whats the meaning of that. But the baby cant create any karma in the womb so what difrence does it make to the soul? but im no expert im just curious.

 

and what does that -ji thing means some of you sometimes put after a name:idea:

[suchandra]

 

This is the material world. There will also be murders by stabbing, gunfire, arrows and bombs also.

 

The best one can do is tell the truth about the evil of abortion in hope of saving at least that individual from traveling the viscious circle of abort then be aborted.

 

Some actions lead towards God consciousness and some actions lead away from it.

 

One who is at least a little intelligent will error on the side of caution.

Good point theist, another thing, each day 200,000 babies see the sunlight whereas each day 100,000 babies are aborted. This is madness.

 

Prabhupada: You are less than animal. You are greatest animal. You want to kill your children.

Vasu Ghoṣa: But they have no life. There is only you know an amoeba in the womb.

Prabhupada: Don’t talk nonsense, waste time. All rascals proposal. Don’t indulge in this rascal theory.

Indian devotee: Now there is a society for prevention to the cruelty to animals. At the same time they are killing the animals also.

Mahamsa: They think they can adjust and control.

Prabhupada: Mudha.

 

 

Morning Walk Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

August 23, 1976, Hyderabad

 

 

"Animal has got also sense. The modern civilization is less than animal. Animal does not kill its own son. The human being is killing his own son. So this is the position. And this is not at all good. It is suffering. We are purchasing suffering more and more. The laws of God or laws of nature, they are very strict. Daivi hy esa guṇamayi mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14]. You cannot avoid the stringent laws of the material nature. If you violate, then you will suffer. If you follow, then you will be elevated."

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.47

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Dallas, July 29, 1975

 

Bhaktivedanta Academy Choir Nityananda's Appearance Day 2009

 

 

 

 

 

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[mahak]

Abortion is heavy business. We are advised to not preach to the faithless, Lord Jesus warns us not to throw pearls before swine. I say men should govern their own bodies, and I seem to lean toward pro choice ideas because evil men with no compassion who have impregnated many without taking responsibility are the so-called anti abortionists.

 

But my pro choice only gives a break to the lonely girl who makes the decision. When it comes to the abortion industry, like so many other industries, thrive on the misery of others. If I was the god of this planet, Id give amnesty to the lonely girls and bust the men who knocked them up. Id imprison the Margaret sangers and joseph mengeles of the industry. Id give the death penalty to the pro choice advocates who deny choice if that choice is to keep the baby. In fact, I know many pro choice folks who actively advocate keeping children, who work very hard to prevent abortion, who would never recommend the industry magnates to a confused person.

 

As far as the legal issue goes, the pro life platform must be anti war, anti slaughter of innocents, otherwise, it is hypocracy like never before seen.

 

Anti abortion advocates must work to get roe v wade overturned, not use the issue to divide this already divided nation. mahak

[AncientMariner]

 

Abortion is heavy business. We are advised to not preach to the faithless, Lord Jesus warns us not to throw pearls before swine. I say men should govern their own bodies, and I seem to lean toward pro choice ideas because evil men with no compassion who have impregnated many without taking responsibility are the so-called anti abortionists.

 

But my pro choice only gives a break to the lonely girl who makes the decision. When it comes to the abortion industry, like so many other industries, thrive on the misery of others. If I was the god of this planet, Id give amnesty to the lonely girls and bust the men who knocked them up. Id imprison the Margaret sangers and joseph mengeles of the industry. Id give the death penalty to the pro choice advocates who deny choice if that choice is to keep the baby. In fact, I know many pro choice folks who actively advocate keeping children, who work very hard to prevent abortion, who would never recommend the industry magnates to a confused person.

 

As far as the legal issue goes, the pro life platform must be anti war, anti slaughter of innocents, otherwise, it is hypocracy like never before seen.

 

Anti abortion advocates must work to get roe v wade overturned, not use the issue to divide this already divided nation. mahak

 

 

 

I gotta agree with you here. I read in Srimad Bhagavatam that a women should never be punished for their mistakes or something like you should never get mad at a woman no matter how abominable an action she commits. The real problem is the males that do not understand the responsibilities of fatherhood and engaging in sex.

 

The males are supposed to have the intelligence to take responsibility for their actions but essentially all the males in the world are sudras or at the intelligence level of women so you have a bunch of crazy women running around in male bodies and it is a recipe for the Kali-yuga. I expect it too get much much worse. I have given up on the notion of there ever being any kind of Golden Age, or Age of Aquarius or whatever due to the birth of the demigods or whatever. It is just going to get darker and darker and stupider and stupider but who knows for sure.

[theist]

 

It is just going to get darker and darker and stupider and stupider but who knows for sure.

 

Yeah but we not should not become stupid along with it. Like in supporting abortion 'rights' for instance.

[AncientMariner]

 

Yeah but we not should not become stupid along with it. Like in supporting abortion 'rights' for instance.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I am not supporting Obama here, the guy is a complete puppet of the New World Order and anything he proposes in regards to abortion is going to be part of the CFR policies of eugenics.

[theist]

 

Don't get me wrong I am not supporting Obama here, the guy is a complete puppet of the New World Order and anything he proposes in regards to abortion is going to be part of the CFR policies of eugenics.

 

 

AM, I never thought you were his supporter.

[mahak]

Yes, AM, that is my position. Srila Prabhupada said the male is always at fault. I dont support "abortion rights", but I vehemently oppose throwing a fifteen year old lost girl in prison for homicide. I am in favor of throwing into prison all who claim to favor choice, but never speak of the choice available for a young girl to keep her child, rathjer present a dire scenartio where such a choice is not asn option. They are liuars, just as much as the so called pro-lifers who care nothing about pakistani, afghan or iraqi life, who freely commit genocide under their banner of god given manifest destiny wehile pretending to be caretakers of everyone elses morality.

 

Srila Yudhisthira, the authority on devotional service being a manifestation of Lord Yamaraja, tells us hypocracy is making moral law for others to follow. Lord Jesus also blasted lawmakers, and denied that he was creating any laws. However, the laws control us, and we hate most of them, most crush us. Even left laws, like the one called Roe v Wade, crush us, and are unnecessary. The abortion industry doesnt want merely Roe v Wade, which is restrictive and basically only covers early abortions. The abortion industry wants abortions late term, even infanticide with live nine-month birth, because that is where they can get the organic matter that old republicans pay big bucks for.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[andy108]

The abortion industry wants abortions late term, even infanticide with live nine-month birth, because that is where they can get the organic matter that old republicans pay big bucks for.

 

How sick am I? that last line of Mahak's had me laughing. Gotta laugh or cry, sometimes both.

 

I am sure there are plenty of old DemocRATS who think stem cells harvested under the waxing moon from a still breathing fetus are their key to immortality, but your point is taken, both sides of the same coin, Hypocrisy all around.