Confused about who is God...

[Bob Cooper]

Can someone please explain this to me?

 

1) "Ganesh, Indra, Varuna, Brahma (et al) are all just demigods."

2) "Siva is a demigod, but the greatest Vaishnava."

3) "But Allah and Jehovah are 'just names for Krishna', the 'Svayam Bhagavan'. They are all God, just different names".

 

How is this?

 

Jehovah was just a minor desert deity, elevated to supremacy by Moses. Jehovah, in the 'Old Testament', admits to being a "jealous god", wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) at a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 24 other offenses).

 

Allah was just a minor lunar deity, elevated to supremacy by Mohammed. Allah, in the 'Koran', admits to being violent and wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) on a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, apostasy, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 29 other offenses)

 

So, why are Allah and Jehovah elevated so? Is it just for political correctness?

 

Why has Allah and Jehovah been elevated to the same level of Krishna?

 

According to Moses and Mohammed, Jehovah and Allah, respectively, both claim to be God. Why have their words being taken literally?

 

So why not accept the words of others who have claimed to be God? For example, Haile Selassie, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sathya Sai Baba, Sun Myung Moon, Charles Manson, and so on?

 

Through history, we have seen the results of the words of Moses and Mohammed: wars and violence galore. India has seen the atrocities of these religions.

 

I just hope no one replies with the "all is one" stuff (i.e., Mayavada philosophy).

 

[ramakiran3]

1) "Ganesh, Indra, Varuna, Brahma (et al) are all just demigods."

 

Well first of all let me tell u that "demi god" is existant only in wetrern language.

 

There exists only one power-the supreme.

Then all others lower to him are demi gods? Well God is a Post!

Gneash is a status,so is of indra, so Even Shiva, Even Narayana AND eVEN Bramha!!

 

If u see our scriptures we wil know that even Bramha, Vishnu and Maheswara have age limit!!So indra, Varuna ..etc are all posts/chambers in leadership.

 

Then comes the next question then arent they divine-bcoz they also have time limit!

Well all the names u have menitoned have reached and joined themselves with supreme power and after that , by the blessings of that supreme they have come to guide our mankind.Thats why if u see our purana's even god has a reason for his origin - isnt it?

 

Some became one with god by birth[like vishnu,ishwara]and some after ages.It shudnt sound surprising bcoz it is the theory of evolution.

 

If u see our purushasuktham it is already mentioned there-God 9The supreme) is using only 1/4rd of his presence to the cration and the rest of 3/4th is in ever lasting bliss!!!! When we worship so called names u mentioned -ur worshiping his 1/3rd power and he made sure to find out whihc diety is responsible for what cause and benefit!

 

So pls know that when we say we r worshipping any god we r trying to link ourselves with that supreme strength.

 

2."Siva is a demigod, but the greatest Vaishnava."

 

It is said that Shiva meditates on Vishnu and Vishnu meditates on shiva.Thats an eternal bond between them.

 

Could there be a greatest Vaishnavait then Anjaneya??? Who is he? Isnt he the form of shiva? Who out of pure love took a devotee form , to worship Vishnu in rama's form!

 

3.Why has Allah and Jehovah been elevated to the same level of Krishna?

 

Well the meaning of Allah is not muhammed it has a vedic origin which OUR FOOLISH ISLAMIC FANATICS are not able to understand.

Allah word is mixture of -Alif,Ou,Meen--- Look again the first leters of all three words it means AUM only!! When will thse ppl know that?

 

Any way coming to point, Our Sages knew much before that our insignificant minds cant see the supreme , so they wanted us to go step by step and thanks to our dharma-we have it all ready for us and u choose ur way--Look at what happened to islam ,they say "Allah the only god" and pray to muhammed, and they also believe in angels and they also pray them,They also started to pray Peers .... Where is the savour left?

 

So When u say Allah(I mean AUM) for a krishna devotee it is that gopala only- Just leave Bliund followers of islam-Every one know the other side

 

4.So why not accept the words of others who have claimed to be God? For example, Haile Selassie, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sathya Sai Baba, Sun Myung Moon, Charles Manson, and so on?

 

Well we can!! and we cant!! Well if our dharma tought us to see god in a stone-cant we see god in a man? Itz not wrong!!Take the life of every saint-Rmanuja,Madhva,Raghavendra Swami-they were ready to accept this truth and they saw god in every one.

But like u said, let us love aperson,Let us follw what they say but let us not give or worship them for god( I mean the names u mentionedFor example, Haile Selassie, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sathya Sai Baba, Sun Myung Moon, Charles Manson, and so on?

 

EVERY HINDU MAKES IT A POINT TO CHAT OM before taking name of god, so we shud understnad this before we start worshipping people and names u mentioned and JUST SEE THEM IN GOD-DONT SEE GOD IN THEM

 

 

 

5.So, why are Allah and Jehovah elevated so? Is it just for political correctness?

 

No comments coz its impossible for me to reject what u said.

[Bob Cooper]

Wow! So David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc., is non-different from Krishna! The Hare Krishnas ROCK!

[Kyros]

Don't listen to the other guy, he's obviously a mayavadi.

 

 

Can someone please explain this to me?

 

1) "Ganesh, Indra, Varuna, Brahma (et al) are all just demigods."

Demigods are representatives of the Supreme Lord. They are minute living entities (aka, like ourselves) who have been elevated to exalted material positions because of their past pios activities (good karma).

 

It is not a permanent position and once your karma is over, you come back down to the middle planetary system (aka, where Earth resides).

 

Lord Krsna says in the Bhagavad Gita that demigod worship is for the less intelligent. A clear sign that demigods are not on the same length as Krishna, or any other Visnu-tattva.

 

 

2) "Siva is a demigod, but the greatest Vaishnava."

This is true, as stated in the Srimad Bhagavatam. However, there is another Purana that contradicts this statement, and that is, not surprisingly, the Siva Purana.

 

Bhagavad Purana has Lord Visnu(Krishna) as the Supreme with Shiva as subordinate, and Siva Purana has Lord Siva as Supreme, with Visnu subordinate. Both texts cannot be rejected, so to reconcile this, you go to the other 16 Maha-Puranas.

 

The Padma Purana, Uttara Khanda explains that Lord Visnu is the Supreme and Lord Siva is subordinate. There are other Puranas that also divide the 18 Maha-Puranas into 3 categories: sattwic(goodness), rajasic(passion), tamasic(ignorance).

 

Sattwic: Lord Visnu

Rajasic: Lord Brahma

Tamasic: Lord Siva

 

Conclusion: Lord Visnu is Supreme.

 

 

3) "But Allah and Jehovah are 'just names for Krishna', the 'Svayam Bhagavan'. They are all God, just different names".

 

How is this?

 

Jehovah was just a minor desert deity, elevated to supremacy by Moses. Jehovah, in the 'Old Testament', admits to being a "jealous god", wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) at a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 24 other offenses).

 

Allah was just a minor lunar deity, elevated to supremacy by Mohammed. Allah, in the 'Koran', admits to being violent and wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) on a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, apostasy, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 29 other offenses)

 

So, why are Allah and Jehovah elevated so? Is it just for political correctness?

 

Why has Allah and Jehovah been elevated to the same level of Krishna?

 

According to Moses and Mohammed, Jehovah and Allah, respectively, both claim to be God. Why have their words being taken literally?

 

So why not accept the words of others who have claimed to be God? For example, Haile Selassie, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sathya Sai Baba, Sun Myung Moon, Charles Manson, and so on?

 

Through history, we have seen the results of the words of Moses and Mohammed: wars and violence galore. India has seen the atrocities of these religions.

 

I just hope no one replies with the "all is one" stuff (i.e., Mayavada philosophy).

 

Just as there is one sun in the sky, but different names for it in different languages, so there is only one God, but is called differently in different languages.

 

According to the dictionary, Jehovah and Allah literally translate to God. So there is no problem in calling Krishna Jehovah or Allah.

 

However, Lord Krsna is not a jealous God, and his only law in the universe is karma (cosmic law of balance/cause and effect/action and reaction), which is the source of all other laws.

 

So yes, it's somewhat of a political stunt, but there is some philosophical purpose behind it as well.

 

Hope this clears up some things.

[ramakiran3]

Don't listen to the other guy, he's obviously a mayavadi.

 

Whom were u refering and what did u mean from it Mr Kyros?

 

ANY WAY COMING TO WHO IS GREAT sHIVA OR VISHNU-I mean wo are u to conclude that?

Its not a rational aproach sayin that some purana's say about shiva so it i sshiva and some say about visnhu so it is visnhu-In dat case Namakam whihc is a part of rigveda (not secondery purana's) says about Shiva as supreme and in sama veda speaks about narayana.

 

A real vaishnava will not speak so.Why did Rama worship shiva all his life??

We should just see these names as different power's-No power is abvove

[ramakiran3]

any way Who has categoried purana's in that way???

 

Vishnu is also worshipped in tamasic and tantric forms.Indeed some of you might not have heard how "vamana " is worshiiped.And so is hiva.

 

Thats dsnt sound an explanaiton.

Besides our dhrama is getting dreid here by these ideas that-one class is great to other.

 

The main downfall for our religion. I think we should spread these difference -WHICH WERE CREATED BY FOOLS few centuries ago. So we should not make a mistake by creating such difference? In that case what we will be doing is also politicism things.... Let people understnd that they have to spread their presence of god into every thing, and not restrict it.

 

Do we know more about our religion than VEDA Vyasa himself?? Who wrote works on both shiva and narayana? And in each of his works he called them supreme? ?

 

If one cant see Krshna in every thing-he cant see krishna at all.

[bhaktajan]

Don't listen to the other guy, he's obviously a mayavadi.

 

"Whom were u refering and what did u mean from it Mr Kyros?"

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Ramakiran3, You are the Mayavadi.

 

There are 3 checks to prove something as bonefide and true:

 

For something to be true it must be affrimed by three sources:

1 Guru

2 Sadhus

3 Sastra

 

VEDA Vyasa himself compiled the Veda literatures. So why do you protest.

 

Choose your consumer product and then go to the check-out counter and pay your dues.

 

You have used a Avatara-Icon that is babaji, the Guru of Paramahansa Yogananda Swami --who has explained Krishna's pre-eminence.

 

The puranas were originally spoken at different epochs to different personalities who themselves were at different ages when the puranic events transpired --they are historic events in different personalities' life-times.

 

The Ramayana was first spoken by Lord Brahma in 1 Billion Verses --but we don't have the whole story.

 

The down fall is due to animal slaughter-factory as the common-denouminator of social unrest.

 

"If one cant see Krshna in every thing-he cant see krishna at all."

 

This is the teaching of a Vaisnava.

 

This is also what the Mayavadi considers to be just a manifestation of time & circumstance that is meant to further teach a lesson --but Krishna was here on earth 5,000 years ago and has left the pre-western history records to boast of his (Krishna's) potency & pastimes that can be understood when the dark-ages pass.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

PS: A Mayavadi is a school of Vedic transcendentalist that summises that moksha/mukti/liberation/salvation/enlightenment/heaven/nirvana = an impersonal merging of one's own soul into the void and then remain in that state with out the possiblity of taking another re-birth in the cycle of samsara --This is not Veda Vyasa's same goal & purpose for recording the Bhagavata-Purana.

[bhaktajan]

Cooper:

Wow! So David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc., is non-different from Krishna! The Hare Krishnas ROCK!

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

What did you mean? You're kidding Right?

 

The Devas (demigods) are all Brahma's Children, grand-children, great-grand-children & great-great-great-grand-children etc. who populate & supervise to management of the cosmos' mechanics --"superintendants" replete with all the concominant fringe benefits of being God-like in influence and power among the celestial spheres of the upper-planetary systems, far above the north star (Dhruva-loka).

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Any one who pays "false-witness" aka purporting to present esoteric topics [ie: yoga; medicine; law; constuction practices; democratic governance; tourist directions; used car salesman's pitch] without actually knowing what they presume to say --is the ideal recepient for bad-karma of the type that will reap stupifingly absurd re-actions (bad karma).

[ramakiran3]

Thank you ,

I could learn some thing from your reply. Indeed i have no intention to prove what u said is wrong.

But just few clarifications about few things...

1.If any reads the works of Yogananada , they will know that Even greatest of the great Kriya Yogi's mentioned in thought they attain supreme(If that supreme wishes) They will again come back as an Avatar only.So i didnt mean any thing about rebirth.

2."If one cant see Krshna in every thing-he cant see krishna at all."

This is the teaching of a Vaisnava.

 

This is also what the Mayavadi considers to be just a manifestation of time & circumstance that is meant to further teach a lesson

Iam very very sorry for my dear friend who restricts this to a Vaishnava thought only!!! Indeed bhagavat gita mentions it-not me.

3.This is not Veda Vyasa's same goal & purpose for recording the Bhagavata-Purana

I dint know that veda vyasa has diffrent goals for his different works!!!!

A real devotee [a bhagavati] only wishes bhakthi -which is both means and end,

While a yogi union with god-but thats not what u think, Even few contravertial statemtns for some lik e"Aham bharmaasmi" only means that -even in the place of Aham that bramha is only present.

4.For something to be true it must be affrimed by three sources:

1 Guru

2 Sadhus

3 Sastra

 

4.VEDA Vyasa himself compiled the Veda literatures. So why do you protest.

 

I protested on the fact that we are not the one's to decide and conclude who are best.. pls read what i wrote at the end bcoz this approach of our's can be explained in your own words -The down fall is due to animal slaughter-factory as the common-denouminator of social unrest. Please dont let that happen by promting {in ur case that the product u bought is the only best product (may be in ur consumer group) but thats not a genralized conclusion ur suppoed to make-Our community is already in too many differences and the worst part is we people who are neither toooo great devotees not too great philosphers are the one's who preach and argue-that too on these issues.

5.The Padma Purana, Uttara Khanda explains that Lord Visnu is the Supreme and Lord Siva is subordinate. There are other Puranas that also divide the 18 Maha-Puranas into 3 categories: sattwic(goodness), rajasic(passion), tamasic(ignorance).

Sattwic: Lord Visnu

Rajasic: Lord Brahma

Tamasic: Lord Siva

 

Conclusion: Lord Visnu is Supreme.

I only meant that are such conclusions necessary-How sure are you?? Speaking of vayasa and agin restricting ur self to one of his works(thats fine no problem) but why conclusions? Im asure that bhagavat didnt say u to conclude like this!! If this is hidden meaning u found-im ready to take ur enlightened ideas.

 

 

 

Lastly Mayawadi..etc i am not bothred with them all i know is Krishna is a supreme and so is shiva. I dont have evidence/opinion to prove that , that jagannadha is not all powerful-But i am really MARVELLED by your infinite knowledge that u could prove rest are all secondary!! - u did gods work -congrats

[Kyros]

There can only be one Absolute Truth.

 

The Garuda Purana declares the Bhagavad Purana to be the "King of all Literatures."

 

Garuda Purana 3.1.45

 

 

 

nànàrthamevaü kathayanti vipra nãcoccaråpaü

j¤ànamàhurmahàntaþ tenaiva siddhaü

pravadanti sarvaü hyataþ paraü bhàgavataü puràõam

 

 

 

"The wise declare knowledge to be manifold, consisting of various grades - high, low and middling. All that knowledge is found in the Bhagavata Purana. Hence, Bhagavata is the highest of all Puranas.

 

We all know that Sattwic means good (things), and as far as I know, you can find the Puranas categorized in the Matsya Purana, as well as Padma Purana.

 

By those facts alone we can understand that rajasic and tamasic Puranas, which generally glorify Lord Brahma and Lord Siva respectively, are inferior to Sattwic Puranas, which glorify Lord Visnu.

 

Bhagavad Gita 14.17

 

 

 

sattvāt sañjāyate jñānaḿ

rajaso lobha eva ca

pramāda-mohau tamaso

bhavato 'jñānam eva ca

 

 

From the mode of goodness, real knowledge develops; from the mode of passion, greed develops; and from the mode of ignorance develop foolishness, madness and illusion.

 

 

Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda, 236.18–21

 

According to the Padma Purana, the texts may be classified in accordance with the three gunas or qualities; truth, passion, and ignorance:

• Sattva ("truth; purity"): Vishnu Purana, Bhagavata Purana, Naradeya Purana, Garuda Purana, Padma Purana, Varaha Purana
  
• Rajas ("dimness; passion"): Brahmanda Purana, Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Markandeya Purana, Bhavishya Purana, Vamana Purana, Brahma Purana
  
• Tamas ("darkness; ignorance"): Matsya Purana, Kurma purana, Linga Purana, Shiva Purana, Skanda Purana, Agni Purana

It doesn't get more explicit than this.

 

However, this doesn't mean that information found in the rajasic and tamasic puranas are not true; however, if there is a contradiction in between two Puranas, then the one in a higher position is to be taken as truth.

 

For example, Siva Purana states Lord Siva to be the Supreme Person, but Visnu Purana states Lord Visnu to be the Supreme Person. Both are contradictory, but the Visnu Purana is placed in a higher position, thus Lord Visnu is the Supreme Person.

 

Hare Krsna

[ramakiran3]

ha ha

i have no problem accepting vishnu as supreme i already do that every day

well if u r taking refernce from purana's then pls know your are already downgrading your comparision as for a hindu vedas are the primary source-so your justification dsnt sound neither realistic, nor convincing.

i dont want to get into idiotic issues -anyway im happy that YOU read them-i will be much happeir if u undserstnad ur single angle prismed outlook..God help us all

[Kyros]

Rg Veda 1.22.20

 

 

 

tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah

diviva caksur atatam visnor yat paramam padam

 

 

The wise continuously see the highest abode of Visnu. (Paraphrased)

 

 

(Keyword: Wise)

 

 

 

 

 

Rigveda 10.82.6

 

 

 

 

tamid garbham prathamam dadhra apo yatra devahsamagachanta visve ajasya nabhavadhyekamarpitamyasmin visvani bhuvanani tasthuh

 

 

The waters, they received that germ primeval wherein the gods were gathefed all together. It rested set upon the Unborn's navel, that One wherein abide all things existing.

 

 

 

 

(Another reference to Lord Visnu, who sprouted a lotus from his navel).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rg Veda 1.164.31

 

 

 

 

apasyam gopam anipadyamana ma ca para ca pathibhis carantam

sa sadhricih sa visucir vasana avatirvati bhuvanesv antah

 

 

I saw a cowherd. He never falls from his position; sometimes he is near, and some times far, wandering on various paths. He is a friend, decorated with a variety of clothes. He comes again and again to the material world.

 

 

(The cowherd is none other than Lord Krsna).

 

 

 

Sama Veda 7.1.2

 

 

 

"O venerable Sir, I studied the Rg, Yajur, Säma, and Atharva Veda as well as the Itihäsas and Puranas, which are the Fifth Veda."

Atharva Veda 11.7.24

 

"The Rg, Säma, Yajur, and Atharvaveda, along with the Puranas, and all the demigods residing in the heavenly planets appeared from the Supreme Lord."

 

Atharva 15.6.10 and 15.6.12

 

 

"He moved favorably towards Brhati and thus the Itihäsas, Puranas, Gäthäs, and Näräçaàsé became favorable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the dear abode of the Itihäsas and Puranas, Gäthas and Näräsaàsé."

 

(As clearly stated by the above verses, Lord Visnu is the Supreme, and the Puranas and epics, like Mahabharata and Ramayana, are clearly Vedic. Indeed they are the Fifth Vedas.)

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

[Haridasdasdas]

Shiva takes the role of an administrative demigod, but actually in his origional form he is the expansion of Visnu and not a Jiva-tattva(separated living entity) like Indra, Ganesha etc. I was told that at an Iskcon temple by a Sanyasi. Other senior devotees have said the same thing.

 

My understanding on the Subject of Allah/Jehovah is that these are simply names for God.

 

Perhaps you are right, perhaps these were origionally deities in some pantheon of desert people(I'm pretty sure Allah was), but what is important is that the people woshipping allah and Jehovah are trying to contact the supreme, and Krishna always rewards this kind of effort. Id someone gets your name wrong when they call you, you may still understand they are calling you, and can still respond.

 

To say that the experience of God is universal and not connected to one sect or practise is not Mayavada, it is common sense based on observation.

 

I don't think I'm the best person to ask. Perhaps if you went to a temple and asked a senior devotee they might be able to explain this one better. Please don't just accept second rate answers and assume that that is all there is to be said.

[ken111]

From Rig Veda 10.121

 

IN the beginning rose Hiranyagarbha, born Only Lord of all created beings. (1)

 

He is the God of gods, and none beside him. (8)

 

-------------------------------

 

Hiranyagarbha is really all that exists , and all the universes lies within it.

All the other gods knows Hiranyagarbha as their ultimate self.

[sri radha krsna premi]

I just hope no one replies with the "all is one" stuff (i.e., Mayavada philosophy).

 

The co-existence of matter and spirit creates a peculiar configuration that can be obnoxiously encountered seriously now imagine for a moment that you were able to go back in time in a sort weird time machine to visit Radha and Krishna or anybody who has come close to seeing them or even being one of the citizens of the ancient dwellings they might of visited together sadly today we're not able to go to such places and meet them so in the modern world.

I mean the here and now where can we go to meet Radha and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> by what means are we able to see them maybe if you have an intelligent answer that is not quoted childishly out of a book Or by pretending you know everything just because you have mentally put it in your memory it is such a silly thing to be a crucial robot.

Just to remind you are on board my celestial spaceship which is capable of going anywhere even leaving the material creation Which is such wonderment? I feel sorry for you while you are struggling with the problem of finding your Higher Self.True happiness

I send my best regards to sincere and honest lovers of the Radha and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> concept which in reality cannot be put into words It is something you have to feel deep in your soul religious rituals and monotonous prayers' or the building of temples?

And all pseudo religious propaganda under the disguise of a cult Whereby the various members with evil influences in their auras Pretend to be advanced devotees, counterfeit spiritual masters Can only teach religious dogma and indoctrination.

 

[username1]

Lord Ganesha isnt just remover of obstacles

he was here before and will be after

 

there is nothing without Lord Ganesha

 

he is the supreme lord

[Narasingh]

 

Can someone please explain this to me?

 

1) "Ganesh, Indra, Varuna, Brahma (et al) are all just demigods."

2) "Siva is a demigod, but the greatest Vaishnava."

3) "But Allah and Jehovah are 'just names for Krishna', the 'Svayam Bhagavan'. They are all God, just different names".

 

How is this?

 

Jehovah was just a minor desert deity, elevated to supremacy by Moses. Jehovah, in the 'Old Testament', admits to being a "jealous god", wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) at a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 24 other offenses).

 

Allah was just a minor lunar deity, elevated to supremacy by Mohammed. Allah, in the 'Koran', admits to being violent and wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) on a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, apostasy, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 29 other offenses)

 

So, why are Allah and Jehovah elevated so? Is it just for political correctness?

 

Why has Allah and Jehovah been elevated to the same level of Krishna?

 

According to Moses and Mohammed, Jehovah and Allah, respectively, both claim to be God. Why have their words being taken literally?

 

So why not accept the words of others who have claimed to be God? For example, Haile Selassie, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sathya Sai Baba, Sun Myung Moon, Charles Manson, and so on?

 

Through history, we have seen the results of the words of Moses and Mohammed: wars and violence galore. India has seen the atrocities of these religions.

 

I just hope no one replies with the "all is one" stuff (i.e., Mayavada philosophy).

 

#3 = false dichotomy. Moses & Mohammed never claimed to be God. The word for God used by them is Jehoweh and Allah. Therefore, your examples of Koresh, Selassie, Jones etc... are not valid.

 

#2 = Intensive defining. The Shiva principle is complex, Gaudiya Vaishnavas consider the Svayam Shiva to be simultaneously the same and different from Vishnu; as in yogurt and milk. Shiva spoke the Gopala Sahasranam. He meditates on Krsna and Krsna meditates on Him. What to do? The true bhakta (regardless of Shiva or Vishnu) will gradually become sensitive and not mix rasas into a "hodge-podge" or rasa-abhasa. God is infinite in His Lila.

 

#1 = More defining. At some point, there will be a disagreement between persons, some who have scriptural evidence that Personalities such as Ganesh and Indra are indeed God, and yet others will have scriptural evidence that they are not. We must bear in mind that God has infinite names due to God's infinite capacities. In some circumstances, the names may actually refer to God, and in others they may refer to jivas of greater capacity.

 

Svayam Bhagavan (God of all Gods) is usually the One most persons are concerned with. It is admirable that some philosophies have an acknowledgement of "lesser Gods" in that they are also bhaktas of Svayam Bhagavan. It seems even Svayam Bhagavan also enjoys being Bhakta of His Bhakta.

Bhakta and Istha Devata have a mutually uplifting relationship. There is a constant of glorification between the two.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Lord Ganesha isnt just remover of obstacles

he was here before and will be after

 

there is nothing without Lord Ganesha

 

he is the supreme lord

 

Quote Sastra or you made it up.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

I just hope no one replies with the "all is one" stuff (i.e., Mayavada philosophy).

 

The co-existence of matter and spirit creates a peculiar configuration that can be obnoxiously encountered seriously now imagine for a moment that you were able to go back in time in a sort weird time machine to visit Radha and Krishna or anybody who has come close to seeing them or even being one of the citizens of the ancient dwellings they might of visited together sadly today we're not able to go to such places and meet them so in the modern world.

I mean the here and now where can we go to meet Radha and ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> by what means are we able to see them maybe if you have an intelligent answer that is not quoted childishly out of a book Or by pretending you know everything just because you have mentally put it in your memory it is such a silly thing to be a crucial robot.

Just to remind you are on board my celestial spaceship which is capable of going anywhere even leaving the material creation Which is such wonderment? I feel sorry for you while you are struggling with the problem of finding your Higher Self.True happiness

I send my best regards to sincere and honest lovers of the Radha and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> concept which in reality cannot be put into words It is something you have to feel deep in your soul religious rituals and monotonous prayers' or the building of temples?

And all pseudo religious propaganda under the disguise of a cult Whereby the various members with evil influences in their auras Pretend to be advanced devotees, counterfeit spiritual masters Can only teach religious dogma and indoctrination.

 

 

You can make up as much nonsense as you like, in as bad english as you like, but it will still just be a creation of your imperfect mind.

 

Your disrespect for Scripture shows your own childish dislike of the authority of Veda Vyasa, preferring instead to make things up yourself. Maybe you lack the intelligence to perform proper study so you pretend you don't need sastra.

 

You can pretend as much as you like but the reality is that without following a proper spiritual path, you will inevitably fall down to whatever vices take your fancy, meat eating, intoxication, sex with unmarried women, men, even children maybe. Just like all the other nondevotees out there.

 

Maybe there were some so called devotees who fell down to these things, but that was only because they were not following their guru, Shrila Prabhupada, but instead wanted to lord it over material nature. Even lord Indra forgets who Krishna is sometimes. Anyone who sincerely follows an authorised guru, in a bonafide sampradaya, will not go wrong.

 

This business of making things up as you fancy has got you nowhere.

[PlayStation361]

The greatest god is Vishnu, Shiva comes next. Others come after them.

[sensible_guy]

 

Quote Sastra or you made it up.

 

Prove that the shastras / puranas / vedas are not made up

[sensible_guy]

 

The greatest god is Vishnu, Shiva comes next. Others come after them.

 

Ha ha ha

 

Allah is the Greatest god. Greater but not greatest is Jesus. Less than greater but great comes Zoraster.

 

I think too much of Puranas does this to people

[Narasingh]

In the end, it is a matter of the heart. The heart cries for perfect harmony. It is part of our synthesis. As the puranas state, we are inherently sat, chit, and ananda. The value of human life is that we can pursue the nature of ourselves and our relationship with our surroundings. Upon a solid foundation of harmony, one may build a beautiful home filled with nuance. However, without this foundation, no matter how beautiful the home it is destined to be rebuilt again and again. Spare nothing on the foundations. Then work from there.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Prove that the shastras / puranas / vedas are not made up

If you beleive that why are you on this board?

 

Maybe you should try reading them? Somehow I doubt you have.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Ha ha ha

 

Allah is the Greatest god. Greater but not greatest is Jesus. Less than greater but great comes Zoraster.

 

I think too much of Puranas does this to people

 

^Too much Maya does this to people^