Confused about who is God...

[Sensible _bloke]

The puranas were the experiences of someone who chose to pass them on. In fact everything revolves around what we know and what we choose to perceive.

If Ganesha being supreme needs to be proved through some puranic pramaana.. then the puranas being true also need to be proved. It is only fair. After all if you choose to keep asking for proofs, there is no answer finally. You will have to say that I heard it from my guru, he heard it from his guru etc.etc. It finally boils down to experience.

But the fact that each person seems to have different set of experiences itself removes all possibility of one truth and many untruths. Unless you truly believe that you are the enlightened ones and all other philosophies are phony. If that is how you think, then it borders on fanaticism and may <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> save you. The choice is finally ours. Either we have an open mind and listen to existence, or keep it closed and blindly believe a set of books.

The Actual problem is that you choose to believe one person's set of experiences but choose to reject another, just because it does not fit into your idea of right and wrong which is a sure shot way of limiting your range of experiences.

Finally this whole "My God better than your God" thing is absurd. As it is, there are a million sects and religions that are bickering and fighting with one another. a lot of blood has already been shed on this thing.

In <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> it was the shaivite vaishnavite thingy (which you people are successfully keeping alive), in the middle east, pagans versus muslims, then christian vs muslims, hindus versus christians, muslims versus hindus. although I am a seeker, i find religion is the cause for many of the world's ills.

Where as, if each was to his own, like the buddha said "Apa Devo Bhava" things would have been a lot simpler.

Even if we do consider puranas, they are at logger heads with one another. If it is believed that <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> worshipped a shiva linga...Immediately some krishna premi will say will say that God worships his devotee. Actually krshna is supreme.. Dont you see the stupidity of it all??

Talking about satvic and tamasic, Dont you see that it is vishnu who did most of the killing actually, the "tamasic activity" right from ravana to kamsa et all???? then where is satvic and where is rajasic and tamasic. All three need to exist if the earth needs to function. The Electron (rajasic) needs to go around the proton/ neutron (satvic) and finally collapse back into pure energy/matter (tamasic).

If this balance is lost then there cannot be the play of the divine.

I am sure that this post too will be deleted and my denied access as the moderator seems to be against anything that he and this ISKCON group believes. I really dont care. You people can continue scratching each other backs. I am out a here...................

[Narasingh]

Even if we do consider puranas, they are at logger heads with one another. If it is believed that <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> worshipped a shiva linga...Immediately some krishna premi will say will say that God worships his devotee. Actually krshna is supreme.. Dont you see the stupidity of it all??

Everything, but this, is a valid statement. How can this be stupid? Same thing goes with the Shaivites and Shaktis. All the puranas and upanishads end up saying the same thing, that is ParaBrahman delights in the pleasure of the devotee. Krsna worships Shiva, Shiva worships Krsna. How is this stupid? It makes perfect sense in a dynamic, never ending, pleasing realm of satisfaction.

[Sensible _bloke]

 

Everything, but this, is a valid statement. How can this be stupid? Same thing goes with the Shaivites and Shaktis. All the puranas and upanishads end up saying the same thing, that is ParaBrahman delights in the pleasure of the devotee. Krsna worships Shiva, Shiva worships Krsna. How is this stupid? It makes perfect sense in a dynamic, never ending, pleasing realm of satisfaction.

 

The stupidity is in differentiating with name and form and saying this god is superior to that, on which this arguement is based.

 

I agree with you that this divine leela is what creates experiences in which the parabrahman rejoices.

 

Being the only guy in a Whole Universe is tough otherwise.

[bhaktajan]

Being the only guy in a Whole Universe is tough otherwise.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

Translation:

Being a [COGNISANT VECTOR-POINT THAT IS 1/10,000TH THE SIZE OF THE TIP OF A HAIR] "ONE-IN-A-QUADRILLION-SQUARED-TO-THE-TENTH-POWER" in a Whole Universe [ONE OF THE COUNTLESS BRAHMANDAS THAT EMIT FROM MAHAVISHNUS SNORING] is EASY otherwise.

 

Again, join the school of fish in the deep blue [though better, but not as cute as penguins]--but then forget getting any Union benefits!

 

"All care and no responsibity."

[Narasingh]

 

The stupidity is in differentiating with name and form and saying this god is superior to that, on which this arguement is based.

 

I agree with you that this divine leela is what creates experiences in which the parabrahman rejoices.

 

Being the only guy in a Whole Universe is tough otherwise.

I see your point.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

The puranas were the experiences of someone who chose to pass them on. In fact everything revolves around what we know and what we choose to perceive.

If Ganesha being supreme needs to be proved through some puranic pramaana.. then the puranas being true also need to be proved. It is only fair. After all if you choose to keep asking for proofs, there is no answer finally. You will have to say that I heard it from my guru, he heard it from his guru etc.etc. It finally boils down to experience.

But the fact that each person seems to have different set of experiences itself removes all possibility of one truth and many untruths. Unless you truly believe that you are the enlightened ones and all other philosophies are phony. If that is how you think, then it borders on fanaticism and may ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> save you. The choice is finally ours. Either we have an open mind and listen to existence, or keep it closed and blindly believe a set of books.

The Actual problem is that you choose to believe one person's set of experiences but choose to reject another, just because it does not fit into your idea of right and wrong which is a sure shot way of limiting your range of experiences.

Finally this whole "My God better than your God" thing is absurd. As it is, there are a million sects and religions that are bickering and fighting with one another. a lot of blood has already been shed on this thing.

In <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> it was the shaivite vaishnavite thingy (which you people are successfully keeping alive), in the middle east, pagans versus muslims, then christian vs muslims, hindus versus christians, muslims versus hindus. although I am a seeker, i find religion is the cause for many of the world's ills.

Where as, if each was to his own, like the buddha said "Apa Devo Bhava" things would have been a lot simpler.

Even if we do consider puranas, they are at logger heads with one another. If it is believed that <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> worshipped a shiva linga...Immediately some krishna premi will say will say that God worships his devotee. Actually krshna is supreme.. Dont you see the stupidity of it all??

Talking about satvic and tamasic, Dont you see that it is vishnu who did most of the killing actually, the "tamasic activity" right from ravana to kamsa et all???? then where is satvic and where is rajasic and tamasic. All three need to exist if the earth needs to function. The Electron (rajasic) needs to go around the proton/ neutron (satvic) and finally collapse back into pure energy/matter (tamasic).

If this balance is lost then there cannot be the play of the divine.

I am sure that this post too will be deleted and my denied access as the moderator seems to be against anything that he and this ISKCON group believes. I really dont care. You people can continue scratching each other backs. I am out a here...................

The puranas make perfect sense to those who know them properly. There is no scripture that says Ganesha is the supreme.

 

If you don't accept the Vedic literatures how can you ascribe yourself to the religion, deities and practises that coem from them? It's sillyness. The Vedas are the work of Vyasadeva.

 

I recognise the validity of all religious experience, but where does the idea that Ganesha is the supreme lord come from? It's concoction. I'm not devalueing his religious experience, I'm questioning the conclusions he came to as a result of it.

 

Maybe Ganesha has visited this man and told him to beleive that, for some higher purpose maybe. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe he's just trolling.

 

There is nothing tamasic about the killing of the demons. You're continually making things up. I don't really understand this part of your post. Your post is confusing.

 

Om Ganeshaya Namah

[Haridasdasdas]

 

The stupidity is in differentiating with name and form and saying this god is superior to that, on which this arguement is based.

 

I agree with you that this divine leela is what creates experiences in which the parabrahman rejoices.

 

Being the only guy in a Whole Universe is tough otherwise.

 

So you do accept the scriptures or you don't?

 

If you accept the experience of Sanatana Dharma, but reject Vedic literature, then are you not drinking the milk but hating the cow?

 

Ganesh is the son of Siva. Siva expands from Visnu. So Ganesh = god? Kinda. Ganesha = supreme lord? Not really.

[Haridasdasdas]

Ultimately there are a number of conclusions a person can come to from the scriptures, but I don't see anything to suggest Ganesha as being the supreme lord.

 

If this man can explain his posiition, what it is based on, and answer why there are so many verses contrary to his position, I will accept it as legitimate, even if i don't agree with it. He has done none of these, therefore I conclude it is concoction/trolling.

 

It is, as you say, down to our subjective experiences. We cannot know for certain by empirical knowledge what is truth and what isn't, and I think that is divine arrangement. However, to a small degree we can rule out some possiblities. It is in this spirit that I questioned his statement.

 

Om Purnam Adah Purnam Idam

Purnat Purnam Udacyate

Purnasya Purnam Adayah

Purnam Evavasisyate

[Sensible _bloke]

 

The puranas make perfect sense to those who know them properly. There is no scripture that says Ganesha is the supreme.

 

If you don't accept the Vedic literatures how can you ascribe yourself to the religion, deities and practises that coem from them? It's sillyness. The Vedas are the work of Vyasadeva.

 

I recognise the validity of all religious experience, but where does the idea that Ganesha is the supreme lord come from? It's concoction. I'm not devalueing his religious experience, I'm questioning the conclusions he came to as a result of it.

 

Maybe Ganesha has visited this man and told him to beleive that, for some higher purpose maybe. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe he's just trolling.

 

There is nothing tamasic about the killing of the demons. You're continually making things up. I don't really understand this part of your post. Your post is confusing.

 

Om Ganeshaya Namah

 

My post will be confusing to a book worm. And who said that I need to to ISKCON version of truth to say what I say? I dont care about your version of truth. I dont even want to limit myself to the sanathana dharma. I believe in accepting all experiences that existence throws at me and float with it.

Truth as far as I am concerned is experiential. The God I have experienced has not come out from a book or even a set of books. It is the bliss you are within, without and everywhere.

 

If at all you meant what you said about "Ganesha telling this man for a higher purpose", then who are you to refute it ??? Are you greater than Ganesha??

 

Demons??? Krishna killed all and sundry... Remember the Mahabharatha war, Krishna was the root cause for the destruction of the entire Kaurava clan including innocent soldiers. He advised Arjuna to kill. Was Bhishma a Demon???

And even looking at the so called demons, if you refer to your own puranas, they were dwarapalakas of Mahavishnu and incarnated because of a curse. In any case I think Puranas were told to help people relate to God and do not represent actually what happened. I am sure you or your Ilk will jump on me and ask for a proof!!! The Only proof I have is that a lot of your puranas are illogical. Absurd. Only a fanatic / fool will believe them blindly. If you choose to belong to this category, then please feel free.

 

Hare Krsna

[Sensible _bloke]

 

Ultimately there are a number of conclusions a person can come to from the scriptures, but I don't see anything to suggest Ganesha as being the supreme lord.

 

If this man can explain his posiition, what it is based on, and answer why there are so many verses contrary to his position, I will accept it as legitimate, even if i don't agree with it. He has done none of these, therefore I conclude it is concoction/trolling.

 

It is, as you say, down to our subjective experiences. We cannot know for certain by empirical knowledge what is truth and what isn't, and I think that is divine arrangement. However, to a small degree we can rule out some possiblities. It is in this spirit that I questioned his statement.

 

Om Purnam Adah Purnam Idam

Purnat Purnam Udacyate

Purnasya Purnam Adayah

Purnam Evavasisyate

 

 

 

Divine arrangement ???? Then why rule out possibilities, do what you think is right and let the other gentleman who thinks Ganesha is supreme go on his way...

 

and assume that too is a "Divine Arrangement"

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Divine arrangement ???? Then why rule out possibilities, do what you think is right and let the other gentleman who thinks Ganesha is supreme go on his way...

 

and assume that too is a "Divine Arrangement"

 

I'm simply asking him for some basis. Opinions are nothing without justification.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

My post will be confusing to a book worm. And who said that I need to to ISKCON version of truth to say what I say? I dont care about your version of truth. I dont even want to limit myself to the sanathana dharma. I believe in accepting all experiences that existence throws at me and float with it.

Truth as far as I am concerned is experiential. The God I have experienced has not come out from a book or even a set of books. It is the bliss you are within, without and everywhere.

 

If at all you meant what you said about "Ganesha telling this man for a higher purpose", then who are you to refute it ??? Are you greater than Ganesha??

 

Demons??? Krishna killed all and sundry... Remember the Mahabharatha war, Krishna was the root cause for the destruction of the entire Kaurava clan including innocent soldiers. He advised Arjuna to kill. Was Bhishma a Demon???

And even looking at the so called demons, if you refer to your own puranas, they were dwarapalakas of Mahavishnu and incarnated because of a curse. In any case I think Puranas were told to help people relate to God and do not represent actually what happened. I am sure you or your Ilk will jump on me and ask for a proof!!! The Only proof I have is that a lot of your puranas are illogical. Absurd. Only a fanatic / fool will believe them blindly. If you choose to belong to this category, then please feel free.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Krishna is responsible for the death of everyone. The people/demons he kills attain perfection.

 

Please substantiate how the Puranas are illogical, I'm interested.

 

I can't help feeling your constant attacks, which is what you have done saying 'stupid, fool' etc, put you into the fanatic category somewhat. I think you're attached to your impersonal conception to the point of craziness. Maybe in a similar way to the crazy Christians I'm sure you've come across. Maybe it's ego, wanting everyone else to be stupid compared to you? At any rate, I hope you aren't really like this in real life. People behave differently on the internet.

[Sensible _bloke]

 

Krishna is responsible for the death of everyone. The people/demons he kills attain perfection.

 

Please substantiate how the Puranas are illogical, I'm interested.

 

I can't help feeling your constant attacks, which is what you have done saying 'stupid, fool' etc, put you into the fanatic category somewhat. I think you're attached to your impersonal conception to the point of craziness. Maybe in a similar way to the crazy Christians I'm sure you've come across. Maybe it's ego, wanting everyone else to be stupid compared to you? At any rate, I hope you aren't really like this in real life. People behave differently on the internet.

 

Yeah Right!! If Krishna Kills it is for Perfection, if some others deities kill it is Tamasic.

 

Keep your stuff going......

 

and by the way if you think saying "foolish and stupid" are being fanatical, you will find a lot of that in your literature themselves. I request you to look a little harder at the recorded talks and works of Prabhupada.

 

Crazy christians??? How Bigoted !! They just claim the superiority of Christ / Mary / God just like you claim Krishna.. Just the name differs. And by the way who told you I am an impersonalist?

 

About Ego... I am not naive to believe that I am a "Dasa". I know I have imperfections that make me human. The trouble is you while you people can dish it out to others, when it comes to taking criticism, your group seems to fare poorly.

 

in any case I do not want to continue this arguement beyond some point and would like to sign off.

[Sensible _bloke]

 

I'm simply asking him for some basis. Opinions are nothing without justification.

 

And The Justifications you provide are flimsy.. They are not traceable in a foolproof manner. You have also been handed these from your guru and he from his guru and trust they are true because you trust your guru...

 

If You are justified in doing that so is this gentleman.

[Kyros]

The Puranas hold relative measurements of how the universe is made up. When these measurements are put together, they can produce similar results as the modern astronomical method.

 

This would establish the superiority of the Puranas above all other scriptures, including the sruti, because it'll be scientific and empirical. All by using a completely different coordinate system to explain the universe and provide the same results. Try asking any other form of religion to do that, and they won't because they can't.

[Sensible _bloke]

 

Krishna is responsible for the death of everyone. The people/demons he kills attain perfection.

 

Please substantiate how the Puranas are illogical, I'm interested.

 

I can't help feeling your constant attacks, which is what you have done saying 'stupid, fool' etc, put you into the fanatic category somewhat. I think you're attached to your impersonal conception to the point of craziness. Maybe in a similar way to the crazy Christians I'm sure you've come across. Maybe it's ego, wanting everyone else to be stupid compared to you? At any rate, I hope you aren't really like this in real life. People behave differently on the internet.

 

Before I sign off... Just tempted to address your interest

Vishnu Purana Book 3, Chapter 12

AURVA continued.--"Let a respectable householder ever venerate the gods, kine, Brahmans, saints, aged persons, and holy teachers. Let him observe the two daily Sandhyás, and offer oblations to fire. Let him dress in untorn garments, use delicate herbs and flowers, wear emeralds and other precious stones, keep his hair smooth and neat, scent his person with agreeable perfumes, and always go handsomely attired, decorated with garlands of white flowers ( Sure, Flowers!!!!) . Let him never appropriate another's property, nor address him with the least unkindness. Let him always speak amiably and with truth, and never make public another's faults. Let him not desire another's prosperity, nor seek his enmity. Let him not mount upon a crazy vehicle, nor take shelter under the bank of a river (which may fall upon him). A wise man will not form a friendship nor walk in the same path with one who is disesteemed, who is a sinner or a drunkard, who has many enemies, or who is lousy, with a harlot or her gallant, with a pauper or a liar, with a prodigal, a slanderer, or a knave. Let not a man bathe against the strength of a rapid stream, nor enter a house on fire, nor climb to the top of a tree ( How does one drink Tender coconut, get mangoes ?) ; nor (in company) clean his teeth or blow his nose, nor gape without covering his mouth, nor clear his throat, nor cough, nor laugh loudly, nor emit wind with noise, nor bite his nails, nor cut grass, ( OMG Cutting grass is banned!! No more landscaping… I mean..... ever!!!) nor scratch the ground, nor put his beard into his mouth, nor crumble a clod of clay ( No Pottery Allowed !! Strictly) ; nor look upon the chief planetary bodies when he is unclean Let him not express disgust at a corpse, for the odour of a dead body is the produce of the moon ( I thought Microorganisms were involved !!!). Let a decent man ever avoid by night the place where four roads meet, the village tree ( ????) , the grove adjacent to the place where bodies are burnt, and a loose woman. Let him not pass across the shadow of a venerable person, of an image, of a deity, of a flag, of a heavenly luminary ( No Pradhakshina is possible during the day time!!!). Let him not travel alone through a forest, nor sleep by himself in an empty house ( What to do if nobody is at home?? Find a hotel). Let him keep remote from hair, bones, thorns, filth, remnants of offerings, ashes, chaff, and earth wet with water in which another has bathed. Let him not receive the protection of the unworthy, nor attach himself to the dishonest. Let him not approach a beast of prey; and let him not tarry long when he has risen from sleep. Let him not lie in bed when he is awake, nor encounter fatigue when it is time to rest. A prudent man will avoid, even at a distance, animals with tusks and horns; and he will shun exposure to frost, to wind, and to sunshine. (I did not know they had hermetic Air-conditioned rooms those days) A man must neither bathe, nor sleep, nor rinse his mouth whilst he is naked (Oops!! I am off to buy a suit to take bath) he must not wash his mouth, or perform any sacred rite, with his waistband unfastened: and he must not offer oblations to fire, nor sacrifice to the gods, nor wash his mouth, nor salute a Brahman, nor utter a prayer, with only one garment on. ( A minimum 2 piece is recommended. Seriously!!). Let him never associate with immoral persons: half an instant is the limit for the intercourse of the righteous with them. (Now THAT is being Specific!!) A wise man will never engage in a dispute with either his superiors or inferiors: controversy and marriage are to be permitted only between equals (Has anybody heard of a term called Equality?? I thought all people are equal in the eyes of God!! Apparently not as per this purana). Let not a prudent man enter into contention: let him avoid uprofitable enmity. A small loss may be endured; but he should shun the wealth that is acquired by hostility.

"When a man has bathed, he must not wipe his limbs with a towel nor with his hands, nor shake his hair, nor rinse his mouth before he has risen. ( may be we should air dry ourselves!!) Let him not (when sitting) put one foot over another, nor stretch forth his foot, in the presence of a superior, but sit with modesty in the posture called Vírásana (or on his knees). He must never pass round a temple upon his left hand, nor perform the ceremony of circumambulating any venerable object in the reverse direction. A decent man will not spit, nor eject any impurity, in front of the moon, fire, the sun, water, wind, or any respectable person (remember if you need to relieve your bladder and you are in the desert…… If you are on a ship in the ocean…...If you are on a mountain which is breezy….GOD SAVE YOU!!!) nor will he void urine standing, (Why do I feel this whole thing is Absurd??) nor upon the highway: he will never step over phlegm, ordure, urine, or blood; nor is the expectoration of the mucus of the throat allowable at the time of eating, offering sacrifices or oblations, or repeating prayers, or in the presence of a respectable person.

"Let not a man treat women with disrespect, nor let him put entire faith in them. Let him not deal impatiently with them, nor set them over matters of importance. (Any body heard of the term gender equality???) A man who is attentive to the duties of his station will not go forth from his house without saluting the chaplets, flowers, gems, clarified butter, and venerable persons in it (Saluting Ghee, flowers, gems!!!! Wow..). At proper seasons he will salute respectfully the places where four roads meet, when engaged in offering oblations with fire. Let him liberally relieve the virtuous who are poor, and reverence those who are learned in the Vedas. He who is a worshipper of the gods and sages, who gives cakes and water to the manes, and who exercises hospitality, obtains the highest regions after death. He who speaks wisely, moderately, and kindly, goes to those worlds which are the inexhaustible sources of happiness. He who is intelligent, modest, devout, and who reverences wisdom, his superiors, and the aged, goes to heaven.

"On the days called Parvas, on periods of impurity, upon unseasonable thunder, and the occurrence of eclipses or atmospheric portents, a wise man must desist from the study of the Vedas. The pious man who suppresses anger and envy, who is benevolent to all, and allays the fears of others, secures, as the least of his rewards, enjoyment in Swarga. A man should carry an umbrella, as a defence against sun and rain; he should bear a staff when he goes by night, (I use a car!!! Simpler and safer) or through a wood; and he should walk in shoes, if he desires to keep his body from harm. As he goes along he should not look up, nor about him, nor afar off, (Hardly a recipe for safety!!) but keep his eyes upon the ground to the extent of a couple of yards.

That's It folks.....

Arrivederci'-------

[hindustani]

Go to a pathology Lab and give your blood for testing and instruct them to find your Jaat/Gyati/cast based upon your blood.

They will look at you with strange face!Now if we cannot separate blood then how the hell you chaps are trying to say who is the God and who is demigod?

Comeout of this fake saga of God and Demigod,else you will be punished severely by your own God one day while living or after death.

[Kyros]

Sensible_bloke, if you're going to quote a scripture, then quote one that wasn't translated by a white European supremacist.

[Veno]

this is seriously beautiful praise of krsna

 

 

[Guest guest]

bhaja gauranga kaha gauranga laha gaurangera name

ye jana gauranga bhaje sei amara prana re

[Umapati_Dasa]

I don't understand ISKCON either. They say that Shiva and Devi are less than Krishna, but then go on to say that gods from other religions are Krishna. It's certainly very strange.

 

Can someone please explain this to me?

 

1) "Ganesh, Indra, Varuna, Brahma (et al) are all just demigods."

2) "Siva is a demigod, but the greatest Vaishnava."

3) "But Allah and Jehovah are 'just names for Krishna', the 'Svayam Bhagavan'. They are all God, just different names".

 

How is this?

 

Jehovah was just a minor desert deity, elevated to supremacy by Moses. Jehovah, in the 'Old Testament', admits to being a "jealous god", wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) at a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 24 other offenses).

 

Allah was just a minor lunar deity, elevated to supremacy by Mohammed. Allah, in the 'Koran', admits to being violent and wrathful, and ready to mete out capital punishment (death penalty) on a whim (those who worship or even respect images and/or idols, apostasy, collecting firewood on the Sabbath, a child disrespecting their parents, and at least 29 other offenses)

 

So, why are Allah and Jehovah elevated so? Is it just for political correctness?

 

Why has Allah and Jehovah been elevated to the same level of Krishna?

 

According to Moses and Mohammed, Jehovah and Allah, respectively, both claim to be God. Why have their words being taken literally?

 

So why not accept the words of others who have claimed to be God? For example, Haile Selassie, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sathya Sai Baba, Sun Myung Moon, Charles Manson, and so on?

 

Through history, we have seen the results of the words of Moses and Mohammed: wars and violence galore. India has seen the atrocities of these religions.

 

I just hope no one replies with the "all is one" stuff (i.e., Mayavada philosophy).

 

[Guest guest]

The siddhanta is very clear, what is the difficulty to understand. Read Brahma Samhita, that explains the position of Siva, Durga, Ganesh, Brahma, et al; in relation to Govinda. Srimad Bhagavatam also corroborates the same objective reality.

 

When Srila Prabhupada says that Allah, Jehovah & Krsna are all God, then what is the difficulty in accepting this statement while still maintaining the proper understanding of tattva. Nama tattva - Brahman, Paramatma & Bhagavan are all God, no? Yet still there is difference. This is dvaita-advaita; the doctrines of monism and of dualism are incomplete on their own merit, they must be married to each other in inconceivable union - acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva.

 

Nama tattva is a most important subject. There are Primary (mukya) names and there are Secondary (gauna) names. Primary names are fully transcendental, identical with the svarup of the Lord and remain eternally in the spiritual world. Secondary names however have been introduced from the creation of the material universe. While i don't know the etymology of names from other cultures such as Allah, Jehovah etc. i see no difficulty in transcending sect since they all refer practically to God. This is the thing, Krsna Consciousness is not a sectarian religion! This must be understood, Bhakti is a science, the topmost yoga system. There is no question of this God or that God, God is one! But he has ananta-rupam. Still an understanding of visnu-tattva, jiva-tattva and shiva-tattva can be there. It's a case of simple for the simple and complicated for the complicated. Like the cobbler who when told that Narayana was threading elephants through the eye of a needle, he was overjoyed thinking how wonderful. Not that 'Oh, how ridiculous'

 

The reason you cannot understand is because you are still conditioned by matter. You cannot understand anything with the material mind! It must be spiritualised then EVERYTHING can be understood. Krsna says in Bhagavad Gita, veda-vid - that He is the knower of the Vedas. So understand as-it-is!

 

Srila Prabhupada writes in his commentary on Sri Bhagavad Gita

 

"Bhagavad-gita—accepted as it is—is a great boon to humanity; but if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time." 4.2pp

 

There is a third category of nama, that is madhurya nama; which Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes in the following passage.

 

"The maha-mantra contains the topmost sweet names of the Lord. Provocation for all the rasas mixed with intimate attachment is found in the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. There is no mention of the Lord's prowess (aisvarya) or giving liberation (mukti). This mantra reveals only that a soul has an individual attraction for the Supersoul by the thread of love. These names (Hare, Krsna, Rama) are the mantra for those on the path of madhurya-rasa. Constantly chanting and meditating on these names is the best form of worshipping the Supreme Lord." (Krsna-samhita)

 

Hare Krsna

[Umapati_Dasa]

Just a question, where does Brahma Samhita call Krishna "Jehovah" or "Allah"? You call Lord Shiva a demigod because there is no evidence that he and Krishna are the same being, but you accept Jehovah and Allah as "alternate names of Krishna" with no evidence. This is utter nonsense.

 

The siddhanta is very clear, what is the difficulty to understand. Read Brahma Samhita, that explains the position of Siva, Durga, Ganesh, Brahma, et al; in relation to Govinda. Srimad Bhagavatam also corroborates the same objective reality.

 

When Srila Prabhupada says that Allah, Jehovah & Krsna are all God, then what is the difficulty in accepting this statement while still maintaining the proper understanding of tattva. Nama tattva - Brahman, Paramatma & Bhagavan are all God, no? Yet still there is difference. This is dvaita-advaita; the doctrines of monism and of dualism are incomplete on their own merit, they must be married to each other in inconceivable union - acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva.

 

Nama tattva is a most important subject. There are Primary (mukya) names and there are Secondary (gauna) names. Primary names are fully transcendental, identical with the svarup of the Lord and remain eternally in the spiritual world. Secondary names however have been introduced from the creation of the material universe. While i don't know the etymology of names from other cultures such as Allah, Jehovah etc. i see no difficulty in transcending sect since they all refer practically to God. This is the thing, Krsna Consciousness is not a sectarian religion! This must be understood, Bhakti is a science, the topmost yoga system. There is no question of this God or that God, God is one! But he has ananta-rupam. Still an understanding of visnu-tattva, jiva-tattva and shiva-tattva can be there. It's a case of simple for the simple and complicated for the complicated. Like the cobbler who when told that Narayana was threading elephants through the eye of a needle, he was overjoyed thinking how wonderful. Not that 'Oh, how ridiculous'

 

The reason you cannot understand is because you are still conditioned by matter. You cannot understand anything with the material mind! It must be spiritualised then EVERYTHING can be understood. Krsna says in Bhagavad Gita, veda-vid - that He is the knower of the Vedas. So understand as-it-is!

 

Srila Prabhupada writes in his commentary on Sri Bhagavad Gita

 

"Bhagavad-gita—accepted as it is—is a great boon to humanity; but if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time." 4.2pp

 

There is a third category of nama, that is madhurya nama; which Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes in the following passage.

 

"The maha-mantra contains the topmost sweet names of the Lord. Provocation for all the rasas mixed with intimate attachment is found in the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. There is no mention of the Lord's prowess (aisvarya) or giving liberation (mukti). This mantra reveals only that a soul has an individual attraction for the Supersoul by the thread of love. These names (Hare, Krsna, Rama) are the mantra for those on the path of madhurya-rasa. Constantly chanting and meditating on these names is the best form of worshipping the Supreme Lord." (Krsna-samhita)

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

Shiva is Shiva-tattva. He has that unique position. He's not a demigod like the other demigods; they are Jiva-tattva. Sada-shiva is also Visnu-tattva and Shiva is an expansion of him, yes? So Shiva is very special, like yoghurt. Milk & Yoghurt are the same yet different. Shiva himself is chanting Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

 

The important thing is that everyone becomes God conscious, but not everyone will take the name Krsna. So if they prefer then they can take the name Allah or Jehovah. Better they worship with the name Allah or Jehovah than not to worship at all. After all they refer to God - despite apparent characteristic differences. The name Shiva can also reference God. For Krsna is indubitably Shiva.

 

Yet Shiva is also an extremely special personality. He is there in Krsna Lila as Gopiswar Mahadev and he is there in Gaura-Lila as Advaita Acarya. He also came as Sankaracarya. Jaya Mahadev who can bewilder the minds of men and is fully devoted to the lotus feet of Sankarsana. Om namo Shivaya!

 

I'd be careful of making offences to the followers of Islam and Christianity. True there may be many who are not so exemplary devotees of God, but there are also undoubtedly those who are very sincere in their worship of God whether they call Him Allah, Jehovah or Visnu etc.

[Guest guest]

"The activities of the Lord are always inconceivable to the tiny brain of the living entities. Nothing is impossible for the Supreme Lord, but all His actions are wonderful for us, and thus He is always beyond the range of our conceivable limits. The Lord is the all-powerful, all-perfect Personality of Godhead. The Lord is cent percent perfect, whereas others, namely Narayana, Brahma, Siva, the demigods and all other living beings, possess only different percentages of such perfection. No one is equal to or greater than Him. He is unrivaled." SB 1.8.16pp