Hridayananda is over the edge

[theist]

 

Mr Spacey. It is obvious you are just here to parse words and play the contrarian. For you could not have carefully read MY Original Post, and been able to imply that I am "ok with Gays" yet think Hrydayananda should "not be ok with gays".

 

You are obviously extremely naive in a worldly sense as well as extremely misinformed about the specific spiritual-social system that Hrydayananda's professed Guru put into place. Thus you are still approaching this conversation from a mental perspective with no relevance to the particular subject matter at hand.

 

I am not the only one who sees right through you, I am just a bit more outspoken against rubbish pukers like yourself.

 

Having Fun yet?

 

 

I don't respond to this poster. I gave up on this gay long ago. I have him on my ignore list and don't even see the body of his posts unless someone quotes him.

 

 

For any besides him out there, Hridayanada becomes a target because he is placing himself about his guru while pretending to represent his guru. Myself while not even a good beginning vaisnava never claim to be anything other than then someone below the solid practice of sadhana practice.

 

 

There is a line from a sloka in the SB which states Krishna is worship by those who give up pretentions. We can approach God from any fallen position but it demands a level of honesty before the Lord.

[andy108]

 

I don't respond to this poster. I gave up on this gay long ago. I have him on my ignore list and don't even see the body of his posts unless someone quotes him.

 

 

For any besides him out there, Hridayanada becomes a target because he is placing himself about his guru while pretending to represent his guru. Myself while not even a good beginning vaisnava never claim to be anything other than then someone below the solid practice of sadhana practice.

 

 

There is a line from a sloka in the SB which states Krishna is worship by those who give up pretentions. We can approach God from any fallen position but it demands a level of honesty before the Lord.

 

An Ignore list? What a concept. How do I get one.

 

Might put me out of business though. I am pretty good at slicing and dicing my Guru's malevolent detractors, but not having the "sword of moderation", some of these masochists come inching back with no limbs like the knight from Monty Python's "The Holy Grail", trying to tell me all I inflicted was a flesh wound, and trying to bite the end of my steel tipped boot.

 

That is when an ignore list would come in handy. I am no sadist.

 

Enlighten me please.

[Kulapavana]

 

H.H. Hridayanandadas Goswami conferred this blessing, via e-mail:

 

• "Ourlove for each other is a reflection of God's love for us. Thus, theperfection of every relationship is to see God in each other.
  MayGod bless Joshua Norman Einhorn and Stanley Earl Harris, both devotedsouls, as they commit themselves to each other in the spirit of God'slove for them. May Joshua and Stanley always please God through truelove for each other.
  Bysuch true spiritual love, may they always be, each for the other, asource of spiritual inspiration and happiness. May their relationshiplead them, patiently and steadily, back to our real home in thespiritual world, where all relationships become eternal and perfect."

 

 

So what? You are offended that he gave a blessing to a gay couple? Did these two hurt anyone? Steal from anyone? Hridanayanda Swami saw this as an opportunity to preach, so he sent them a nice inspirational email... Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was ready to serve meat during preaching programs.

 

Run for the hills... they were both over the edge...

[bhaktatraveler]

 

 

Hi, kids, hope you are chanting your rounds. Great news!!! Times have changed and I will now perform Gay Marriages!

 

 

Prabhupada was out of touch with modern times but I have a Phd so I'm know better. But I'm still loyal and will kick out any of those people contaminated by the Evil Gaudiya Math.

 

 

Wow. just think about it, I'm one of last Zonal Gurus still kickin. Yep, you gotta change things if you want to survive. And I don't fall for all this hocus pocus mystical stuff and you shouldn't either. Just go back to college and graduate school and you can become like me.

 

You are just to funny sometimes, LOL, LOL, LOL.

[stonehearted]

I find this a little curious. Maharaja acknowledged human love as a reflection of the Lord's love for us and wished that these two people's love may become perfected some day. And suddenly he's performing a gay marriage by remote control!

 

Here's something he wrote to a Godbrother after hearing some Godbrothers accused him of gaming the system, pushing an agenda:

 

Regarding the gay issue, given the reaction to my words, I apparently was not careful enough in my language, and for that I am sorry.

I do want to clarify that despite my mistakes, I was not trying to "play

a game" or pressure ISKCON or the GBC.

I have made it clear to the devotee gay community that I do not support

gay marriage. I also stated in my paper on this topic that however "natural"

homosexuality may be for an individual, it remains unnatural for society.

I realize that I don't the right to unilaterally establish policy on this matter, and therefore I am encouraging a reasonable GBC discussion of

the issue.

I am certainly guilty of indiscretion, but not of political maneuvering.

 

 

Okay, let 'im have it!

[theist]

 

An Ignore list? What a concept. How do I get one.

 

 

That is when an ignore list would come in handy. I am no sadist.

 

Enlighten me please.

 

 

Sure it is easy and beats going insane. Go to User CP at the top left of the page. The scroll down the list on the left until you come to Buddy List/Ignore List and click that and you are there.

 

 

I have wasted so much time in the past in endless trying to argue my point. No more.

[suchandra]

 

So what? You are offended that he gave a blessing to a gay couple? Did these two hurt anyone? Steal from anyone? Hridanayanda Swami saw this as an opportunity to preach, so he sent them a nice inspirational email... Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was ready to serve meat during preaching programs.

 

Run for the hills... they were both over the edge...

 

This was exactly the attitude of the Catholic Church, meanwhile they found out what great damage and havoc homosexuals caused to the church.

And do the only right thing, to immediately kick out anything that looks homosexual.

[theist]

 

I don't respond to this poster. I gave up on this gay long ago.

 

I just noticed this most unfortunate typo. I meant to say gUy and instead wrote gAy.

 

My apologies to kaisore

[theist]

 

I find this a little curious. Maharaja acknowledged human love as a reflection of the Lord's love for us and wished that these two people's love may become perfected some day. And suddenly he's performing a gay marriage by remote control!

 

Here's something he wrote to a Godbrother after hearing some Godbrothers accused him of gaming the system, pushing an agenda:

 

 

Okay, let 'im have it!

 

 

Babrhu did you read the whole article? You missed some important facts. Who brought Govinda's resteraunt, and the other Iskconites into it.?

 

 

 

OnNovember8, 2008, Joshua Einhorn and Stanley Harris committed to alovingrelationship at a Blessing Ceremony in the Chatsworth districtof LosAngeles. One hundred family members, friends and ISKCONdevoteescelebrated. Santa Barbara ISKCON Temple President, Sarvatmadas,officiated. Govinda's of Los Angeles served prasad. H.H.Hridayanandadas Goswami conferred this blessing, via e-mail:

[bhaktatraveler]

 

You are just to funny sometimes, LOL, LOL, LOL.

 

This adam guy, begger and Theist are the only ones with a brain.

 

Have none of you read the books? Have you not heard Srila Prabhupada on the subject? You confuse gentlemanly behavior with acceptance from Prabhupada. Look at a conversation with ginsberg, no not with ginsberg but ABOUT him. Prabhupada HATES homosex, He spits!!! I've heard Him say they are not in the varnasrama society. So that much has to be there and marrage IS in DVD.

 

Who says ANYONE doesn't get Krsna, nonsence! But some need to be a little distance away from DVD most of the time. Every one can enter the temple for artik, but gays on the alter? Hell no!, in the pujari? Hell no!, in the kitchen? Hell no! out back sweeping? yes!

 

The answer in is the Caitanya Caritamrta when Jaganatha Misra has a big party for the birth of Lord Caitanya and all classes of men come to make offerings. I can not remember where it is and my folio is gone to a dead hard drive. The mention is that these people had there own method of income(I think they were intertainers) and lived separate for greater society. Maybe someone with a folio could look for it.

 

Hare Krsna, RCB

[Beggar]

 

Regarding the gay issue, given the reaction to my words, I apparently was not careful enough in my language, and for that I am sorry.

I do want to clarify that despite my mistakes, I was not trying to "play

a game" or pressure ISKCON or the GBC.

I have made it clear to the devotee gay community that I do not support

gay marriage. I also stated in my paper on this topic that however "natural"

homosexuality may be for an individual, it remains unnatural for society.

I realize that I don't the right to unilaterally establish policy on this matter, and therefore I am encouraging a reasonable GBC discussion of

the issue.

I am certainly guilty of indiscretion, but not of political maneuvering.

 

Yes, this is an important clarification. But it also shows the political nature of the discussion itself and it illustrates that the GBC in many ways has evolved into a political body. The trick is to keep Krsna in the center. Each one of us must think whether or not we are doing this. Instead going to these 'devotee' internet sites becomes like going to CNN's political page.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I find this a little curious. Maharaja acknowledged human love as a reflection of the Lord's love for us and wished that these two people's love may become perfected some day. And suddenly he's performing a gay marriage by remote control!

 

Here's something he wrote to a Godbrother after hearing some Godbrothers accused him of gaming the system, pushing an agenda:

 

 

Okay, let 'im have it!

 

Let them have at it? OK! But that is as far as we in ISKCON should go!(I say we metaphorically speaking) An ISKCON sannyasa/guru(sic) giving official sanction by attending as the priest is just wrong.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

This was exactly the attitude of the Catholic Church, meanwhile they found out what great damage and havoc homosexuals caused to the church.

And do the only right thing, to immediately kick out anything that looks homosexual.

 

There/here's a brain!

[Beggar]

 

Who says ANYONE doesn't get Krsna, nonsence! But some need to be a little distance away from DVD most of the time. Every one can enter the temple for artik, but gays on the alter? Hell no!, in the pujari? Hell no!, in the kitchen? Hell no! out back sweeping? yes!

 

 

 

But wait a minute, I know of several current and ex-pujaris who are gay. Many of them cook also. And of course we all know Bhavananda and Kirtanananda etc.

[stonehearted]

 

Babrhu did you read the whole article? You missed some stuff. Who brought Govinda's resteraunt into it?

What "whole article"? There's hardly anything there. I think the devotee from Santa Barbara may be a disciple of Hridayananda Maharaja's. Perhaps these two men are friends of the temple. "Chatsworth District" sounds like they live in the northern part of the San Fernanda Valley, near the Santa Susana mountains. Maybe they sometimes go to programs at Sarvatma's in SB. (I don't know if there's an official ISKCON center there; my guess is that this devotee lives there and has programs at his home.) What the article means by his "presiding" over the ceremony (sounds like a simple commitment ceremony to me--have folks you care about over to your home--or the park, or wherever--and make your promises), I don't know. Do you?

 

As far as Govinda's Restaurant, that's not a tough one, either. My immediate guess it that the partners hired Govinda's to cater it. So Sarvatma did something, Hridayananda sends a telegraph subtly preaching that love is ultimately meant for God, and they hire Govinda's to cater it. That makes it a gay ISKCON marriage? I'd need more than what we have to draw any such conclusion.

[theist]

 

That makes it a gay ISKCON marriage?

 

 

For someone who sometimes chides others for not reading carefully you sure are dancing around on this one.

 

 

No one is saying it is a GBC official event or policy change. It is obvious a slightly oblique avenue Hridayananda is taking to promote his policy.

 

 

 

OnNovember8, 2008, Joshua Einhorn and Stanley Harris committed to alovingrelationship at a Blessing Ceremony in the Chatsworth districtof LosAngeles. One hundred family members, friends and ISKCONdevoteescelebrated. Santa Barbara ISKCON Temple President, Sarvatmadas,officiated. Govinda's of Los Angeles served prasad. H.H.Hridayanandadas Goswami conferred this blessing, via e-mail:

[stonehearted]

 

Let them have at it? OK! But that is as far as we in ISKCON should go!(I say we metaphorically speaking) An ISKCON sannyasa/guru(sic) giving official sanction by attending as the priest is just wrong.

 

You apparently misread my post, O king. I wrote, "Let 'im have it." In plainer words, let him (HDG) have it. I expected to see some of our members go off on him.

[andy108]

Babhru said:

"What the article means by his "presiding" over the ceremony (sounds like a simple commitment ceremony to me--have folks you care about over to your home--or the park, or wherever--and make your promises), I don't know. Do you?"

 

The article said plainly.

 

Santa Barbara ISKCON Temple President, Sarvatmadas,officiated.

Since when is the President of an Iskcon temple in the business of officiating over anything but an official Gaudiya Vaisnava samskara ritual.

Oh, yeah, since they decided they know better than the Founder-Acarya as to how to execute the duties of an Iskcon Sadhaka amongst the public.

How silly of me.

So no matter how nicely worded and encouraging the note from Hrydayananda was, the whole thing is a farce because the first part of the equation was not properly computed.

That is, a scheming Usurper aka Zonal Acarya, who continues to this day to misrepresent a Founder-Acarya's spiritual institution, is encouraging and condoning a president of a temple of said institution as he involves himself in an unsanctioned ceremony in an effort to portray Krsna Consciousness as being all things for all people regardless of their level of surrender and committment to the actual rules and regulations of progressive spiritual life.

A jolly jolly feel good effort with no real meaning.

Marraige or committed union involving sex, even for committed Male/Female grhastas, is not about sanctioning indulgence in material activity, but about accepting restrictions to purify ourselves of a desire for something that holds us back from being purely situated in our constitutional position as cent per cent servant.

A responsible priest is certain that participants are consciously aware of such a fact before conferring any encouragement, lest they encourage a person to believe that they are now given some divine carte blanche to enjoy to their fullest whimsy.

There is a difference.

These guys have no spiritual potency left ever since they disobeyed the orders of their spiritual master, and have gradually been forced to resort to compromising with every sensual whimsy of all comers just to feed their bellies.

I don't revel in it. It doesn't make me happy. I just call it as I see it, and paint the true picture to serve as a cautionary tale for those still on the fence about these matters.

[stonehearted]

 

For someone who sometimes chides others for not reading carefully you sure are dancing around on this one.

If you say so. I read it carefully enough to know it was a blessing ceremony attended by friends and family, which included devotees. It appears these two guys (or, perhaps, gays) are members of an ISKCON community on some level. So who do you think they'd invite. It ain't a marriage; as everyone in our nation knows, that's against the law in California. Please point out what I'm dancing around.

 

 

No one is saying it is a GBC official event or policy change.

 

Did I claim anyone did? But there's a lot of posturing here about gay marriage, etc.

 

 

It is obvious a slightly oblique avenue Hridayananda is taking to promote his policy.

 

Okay. That means we must assume the Hrid's also a bald-faced liar, since he says that's not what this was about. If that's your claim, you'd do well to come up with some evidence.

 

Anyway, I just shared something he wrote somewhere else, and you-all take shots at the messenger. Well, here I am.

[Kulapavana]

 

This was exactly the attitude of the Catholic Church, meanwhile they found out what great damage and havoc homosexuals caused to the church.

And do the only right thing, to immediately kick out anything that looks homosexual.

 

Yes, Srila Prabhupada should have kicked out the entire Mott Street boys club early on in New York: Kirtanananda, Hayagriva, Umapati and their various boyfriends... instead, he gave Kirtananda the first sannyasa in our movement and made Hayagriva his chief editor... then we had Bhavs and a few other fags that made life miserable for a lot of folks in Iskcon...

 

Fast forward to present.... well... remember, this was just a blessing conveyed by an email to two people who are at most just congregational members of a local preaching center. So... relax a little... they were not initiated or given important jobs at the BBT...

[bhaktatraveler]

 

You apparently misread my post, O king. I wrote, "Let 'im have it." In plainer words, let him (HDG) have it. I expected to see some of our members go off on him.

 

Bad glasses, LOL. Sorry!

 

RCB

[Beggar]

 

A responsible priest is certain that participants are consciously aware of such a fact before conferring any encouragement, lest they encourage a person to believe that they are now given some divine carte blanche to enjoy to their fullest whimsy.

Ultimately in American society these things will be decided legally. The only reason Prop 8 passed in CA was the votes of the elderly. Within five years enough of those people will have passed on so that gay marriage will become firmly and legally established. Its all based on expanding the definition of the pursuit of happiness which is all about sensual exploitation. Then the next step will be to mandate that all clergy from all sects perform marriages without discrimination. By then the devotees will have to go underground like in the former Soviet Union. There will be as we are now seeing a shadow Hare Krsna Movement which will be politically correct and probably receive government subsidies. Such a thing sounds unconstitutional but there's always a new way to get around it.

 

Political correctness in the Western countries is an insidious and growing force. Because Western Liberalism (the conservatives are only the conservative branch of Western Liberalism) does not generally use overt force on its domestic populations it must use the subtle propaganda of the media and educational institutions to control. This form of control has been enhanced by cable and satellite TV, the internet and other forms of electronic communication. In educational arenas like comparative religion and soft sciences like psychology, the philosophies has been co-opted for the sake of social control in the Western Liberal state. Much of what is received in undergraduate and advanced graduate training in these fields is merely social indoctrination. Would you expect anyone of such a socio-economic background, who subjected themselves to so much indoctrination to turn out any differently?

[stonehearted]

 

The article said plainly.

 

Santa Barbara ISKCON Temple President, Sarvatmadas,officiated.

Since when is the President of an Iskcon temple in the business of officiating over anything but an official Gaudiya Vaisnava samskara ritual.

There are a few things that aren't as plain as some would make out. First, what does it mean that someone is the president of an ISKCON temple that doesn't exist? I'm not aware there is an ISKCON temple in SB. Even krishna.com doesn't seem to have anything listed there, much less an ISKCON temple. Another is just what Mr. Harris means by "officiated." Perhaps you do know just what he means. I don't. My best guess is that Harris and Einhorn invited him to be the guy who runs the show. He may have been as much an MC as anything else. There's no mention of a fire sacrifice, etc.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Yes, Srila Prabhupada should have kicked out the entire Mott Street boys club early on in New York: Kirtanananda, Hayagriva, Umapati and their various boyfriends... instead, he gave Kirtananda the first sannyasa in our movement and made Hayagriva his chief editor... then we had Bhavs and a few other fags that made life miserable for a lot of folks in Iskcon...

 

Fast forward to present.... well... remember, this was just a blessing conveyed by an email to two people who are at most just congregational members of a local preaching center. So... relax a little... they were not initiated or given important jobs at the BBT...

 

I think you confuse making the best use of a bad bargan with purposfully cherry picking the helpers that came.

[stonehearted]

 

Bad glasses, LOL. Sorry!

 

RCB

No biggie. We've seen plenty of mistakes on this thread, including, perhaps by his own admission, HDG's email.