Hridayananda is over the edge

[andy108]

 

Fact is that the KC movement is never going to become mainstream in today's scientific world.

 

The KC movememt is a cult and always will be a cult for a counterculture of people who drop out of the mainstream society.

Yes, that is because the movement proper was never meant to integrated with the already crystalized mainstream society. THROW OUT THE WEST! proclaimed the Founder-Acarya of Iskcon.

 

The Cult of Bhakti is for the few, the surrendered, and thus the dedicated.

 

All mainstream gets is the chance to hear the Holy Name resound as the Harinama party ambles up the road, maybe taste some prasadam sweets the devotees hand out, and then it is back to sleep for the sheep, the sukriti attached to their aura unbeknownst to them.

 

Those are the only intended consequences, and thus the Means creates the intended End of suffering eventually. The End thus justifies the means.

 

Unless you are looking to be the most popular and beloved of the general Kali-yuga populace. All things to all people, afraid to speak the plain truth lest it lose you a vote for nicest guy in your neighborhood.

 

Whiners need not apply for Bhakti Yoga discipleship.

[Kulapavana]

 

Not really.

That stuff has all blown over.

What is holding back ISKCON now is the enemy within.

 

 

IMO what's holding Iskcon back is the same lack of common sense and dogmatism that made past mistakes possible.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Were do you see Hridayananda praising homosex? Did he initiate these guys? So what is your basic malfunction?

 

As to the Mott Street boys being EVER reformed is an open question. Bhavs was never reformed either and the Mayapur shooting incident was caused by him punking a local kid - that is based not on official Iskcon legend but on the testimony of people who were there at the time. Perhaps Prabhupada did not know about their homosexual exploits after initiation, but I doubt it. These guys had a lot of enemies who knew what was going on and who had direct access to SP.

 

Again, I see that as the principle of 'end justifies the means'. You condemn theft, you condemn homosexuality, but under some circumstances you give it sanction. Did Prabhupada not tell some gay disciple (Umapati?) to stick to one boyfriend and practice KC? If so, what is your problem with Hridayananda's blessing?

 

 

Again the word reform comes to mind, if they did not reform then the mercy is recinded.

 

Prabhupada said that in a private letter. Not in an open class, nor in a open conversation with His disciples, and absolutly not in any books. So now you want to again make a comparison of apples to oranges for the benifit of homos and low class, charlitan so-called gurus.

 

RCB

[Kulapavana]

 

Not the approach, which is explained by Prabhupada as OK. It was the practisioners.

 

 

Yes, it was OK to steal, just not OK to get caught... very poor practice

[Kulapavana]

 

Prabhupada said that in a private letter. Not in an open class, nor in a open conversation with His disciples, and absolutly not in any books. So now you want to again make a comparison of apples to oranges for the benifit of homos and low class, charlitan so-called gurus.

 

 

Yes, big mistake... Hridayananda should not have put his blessing in writing...

[andy108]

Quote:

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The KC movememt is a cult and always will be a cult for a counterculture of people who drop out of the mainstream society. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Yes, that is because the movement proper was never meant to integrated with the already crystalized mainstream society. THROW OUT THE WEST! proclaimed the Founder-Acarya of Iskcon.

 

The Cult of Bhakti is for the few, the surrendered, and thus the dedicated.

 

All mainstream gets is the chance to hear the Holy Name resound as the Harinama party ambles up the road, maybe taste some prasadam sweets the devotees hand out, and then it is back to sleep for the sheep, the sukriti attached to their aura unbeknownst to them.

 

Those are the only intended consequences, and thus the Means creates the intended End of suffering eventually. The End thus justifies the means.

 

Unless you are looking to be the most popular and beloved of the general Kali-yuga populace. All things to all people, afraid to speak the plain truth lest it lose you a vote for nicest guy in your neighborhood.

 

Whiners need not apply for Bhakti Yoga discipleship.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

That is hearsay, undocumented rumor and has nothing legitimate to support that claim.

 

It is one of them "Prabhupada said" stories that there is no verifiable evidence of.

It's just an ISKCON rumor.

 

I can't find the letter now but I have seen this and it is true! My old folio died along with my broken hard drive, LOL.

 

RCB

[Kulapavana]

Since Krsna already has everything you do not need to steal from others to give it to Him. I detest the idea of 'end justifies the means' - it is Talmudic, not Vedic.

[andy108]

Where is Theist today? He confirmed my opinion yesterday that those who were working directly under the care of Srila Prabhupada and serving his Vapu were carefully sanctioned to do such things by dint of Prabhupada being uttama saktavesha empowered.

 

When these guys were caught making a mistake and promised to SP's face they wouldn't do it again and asked for more service, SP forgave them and gave it to them. Multiple times in some cases. If they were breaking the bogus "so called civilized" rules of some region, SP AND SUPERSOUL DON'T FORGET, weighed the consequences and made the call. If there was some good ground to be gained, and the infraction would be forgotten in course of time and wouldn't affect the long term future, SUPERSOUL MADE THE CALL. IT ASTOUNDS ME THAT SO MANY CAN GET SO LOST IN THEIR SELF-RIGHTEOUS TIRADE AND FORGET THAT SUPERSOUL DOESN'T PLAY BY YOUR IDEA OF WHAT IS RIGHT!!

Anyway that era was over when SP's Vapu vanished, vamoose. He left vani for us neophytes and lukewarm Madhyamas heralding a new era. Strictly pious DVD. Which everyone in these discussions except Caturbahu Das conveniently avoids bringing to the forefront, in order to repeatedly vent steam due to past bitterness, spinning in circles. Truly a shame.

[andy108]

 

Since Krsna already has everything you do not need to steal from others to give it to Him.

 

You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

 

We offer him bhoga, though he doesn't need to eat.

A Saktavesha avatara said it was just fine for Bhaktas under certain conditions to steal to serve the Lord. He sanctioned such himself.

 

You would be much more effective Kula, if you would give up this campaign against what someone 1000 times more devoted to Krsna than you did in the past, and focus on what he told us to do in the future, which matches your mood.

 

No more funny business. Pious DVD.

 

Does this make sense to you?

[Kulapavana]

 

A Saktavesha avatara said it was just fine for Bhaktas under certain conditions to steal to serve the Lord. He sanctioned such himself.

 

And the Lord in His form of Time has smashed this idea to pieces. That is what makes sense to me.

 

You can't build future unless you understand the past and the present, as the are the foundation of the future.

 

I do not particularly like homosexuals and I find their practices disgusting. Yet, as I said before, I see nothing wrong when someone blesses them in an email encouraging them to seek spirituality.

 

Lack of common sense in the past is linked to the lack of common sense in the present, and that tells me that it will be a part of the future as well.

[andy108]

 

And the Lord in His form of Time has smashed this idea to pieces. That is what makes sense to me.

 

You can't build future unless you understand the past and the present, as the are the foundation of the future.

 

I do not particularly like homosexuals and I find their practices disgusting. Yet, as I said before, I see nothing wrong when someone blesses them in an email encouraging them to seek spirituality.

 

Lack of common sense in the past is linked to the lack of common sense in the present, and that tells me that it will be a part of the future as well.

 

Did you bother to read the rest of that post I made? Because it sure doesn't look like it from your hurried response.

[Kulapavana]

 

Did you bother to read the rest of that post I made? Because it sure doesn't look like it from your hurried response.

 

It was not hurried. Read it again.

[andy108]

 

It was not hurried. Read it again.

 

Oh well, seems you have learned very little these past few days.

 

You cherry pick the portion of my quote that will enable you to further your "vent my frustration agenda" without considering at whose expense you lay the blame of having no common sense. A saktavesha avatara.

 

And ignore the part that supports your desire to see things work out a certain way in the future, which your condemnation of the past will do little to further.

 

Talk about lacking common sense.

 

And here is another example of where your highly touted "common sense" is anything but.

 

 

I do not particularly like homosexuals and I find their practices disgusting. Yet, as I said before, I see nothing wrong when someone blesses them in an email encouraging them to seek spirituality.

 

That you could consider an unrepentant non-spiritual huckster shyster disobeyer of his Guru's orders, and theif of Guru's properties who has misrepresented his Guru's institution plainly for all to see to this day.

 

That you could consider that he penned that letter with innocent intention of "encouraging them to seek spirituality", not to mention you don't know whether he has vetted said homos to see if they agree to the principle of restricting their gratification to make advancement.

 

This shows lack of savvy. Lack of common sense. That you are easily still a victim of "Acaryadeva's" wiles. Do you want to be continue to be a victim of Dreaded Acarya Syndrome all your life? Wasn't HariKesh enough?

 

Or are you secretly harboring a deep buried desire to have what they had, and would condone any nonsense if you could have someone wash your lotus feet and praise your glories? Sorry but what else can I think unless you prove me wrong by exercising some real sensibility?

[Kulapavana]

 

Oh well, seems you have learned very little these past few days.

 

 

yes, the past few days were kinda quiet compared with certain periods in my last 30 years of learning. I'm sorry you are disappointed with me.

[andy108]

 

yes, the past few days were kinda quiet compared with certain periods in my last 30 years of learning. I'm sorry you are disappointed with me.

 

C'mon you are a big boy, don't pull this guilt trip stuff with me.

 

Shake it off. If you see reason in what I say, just let it be and use it to your advantage instead of seeing it as some kind of personal attack. I wouldn't waste a moment pricking you if I didn't think you could benefit. Well, I do benefit from expressing myself, but that is secondary.

 

I am trying to get you up to speed. You are going to need it. You have all the material piety down pat. If you can realize Srila Prabhupada's transcendental perogative, realize that in the end the joke is meant to be on you and your material righteousness, that demonic Hari Cash did you a favor, then you can be good without attachment and will be a hell of a warrior for Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

 

Go ahead and take as much time to lick your wounds as you need to clean em up real good. I won't hound you anymore. Sorry if I was rough.

 

Hare Krsna

[Beggar]

I Walk the Line by Hari Cash

I keep a close watch on this heart of mine

I keep my eyes wide open all the time

I keep the ends out for the tie that binds

Because you're mine, I walk the line

I find it very, very easy to be true

I find myself alone when each day is through

Yes, I'll admit that I'm a fool for you

Because you're mine, I walk the line

As sure as night is dark and day is light

I keep you on my mind both day and night

And happiness I've known proves that it's right

Because you're mine, I walk the line

You've got a way to keep me on your side

You give me cause for love that I can't hide

For you I know I'd even try to turn the tide

Because you're mine, I walk the line

I keep a close watch on this heart of mine

I keep my eyes wide open all the time

I keep the ends out for the tie that binds

Because you're mine, I walk the line

[Kulapavana]

 

You have all the material piety down pat. If you can realize Srila Prabhupada's transcendental perogative, realize that in the end the joke is meant to be on you and your material righteousness...

 

Actually, the joke seems to be very much on Iskcon and it's leaders thinking that they were, are, or ever will be, above what you call 'material righteousness'. Our good reputation was severely damaged when all these shenanigans were exposed to the public and it is only now that we are slowly rebuilding it. The temples are quite empty and the devotees few and far in between.

 

Arya means 'one who is noble'.

[andy108]

 

Actually, the joke seems to be very much on Iskcon and it's leaders thinking that they were, are, or ever will be, above what you call 'material righteousness'. Our good reputation was severely damaged when all these shenanigans were exposed to the public and it is only now that we are slowly rebuilding it. The temples are quite empty and the devotees few and far in between.

 

Arya means 'one who is noble'.

 

Yes I agree, but again you only focused on that part of what I wrote, because directly after that I affirm that your material righteousness is very valuable if it is enacted without attachment, which only happens when you firmly realize that the joke is on you too for even having any material predilection, mode of goodness, or ignorance.

 

There is the example of a great devotee demon who taught a very valuable lesson to Lord Indra about this, and Lord Indra recognized he was being taught a lesson by a great demon, and was humbled and encouraged that he could have such a realization about his so-called goodness.

 

When you see that the joke was on everyone involved, then you include yourself in it, and will no longer be bitter about suffering at the hands of those madmen, you will realize it was all arranged by Krsna, that Iskcon's reputation is reparable for those who will benefit from it having a good reputation, that those who look askance at Iskcon because of its troubles, were not desirous at heart for Krsna consciousness anyway, and then you can hold your righteous stance without attachment or anger and fight with glee and joy.

[theist]

 

It appears H "Swami" had this letter carefully crafted and planned out from the get-go so as to be able to claim plausible denial, and keep everyone that matters to his Prabhupada Vani Minimization Campaign assuaged and captured by his sophistry. The Iskconers stay put frozen like deer in the headlights of his Equivocally ambiguous non position, and the queers feel encouraged that they are fine the way they are, no need for change, and Krsnaloka is already attained.

 

The only people who see through this charlatans charade are the few, the proud, the impotent, the pundits with no DVD community. But at least we verbally lambaste him with flare and gusto.

 

Yep the whole episode was set up for plausible deniability. We can see the same thing everyday on the news when politicians do it and we see it here.

 

Big booboo Acaryadeva, we are in an era where those that make the biggest claims are going to have their every word and deed vetted openly and threadbare. You are no longer entitled to the benefit of the doubt. You lost that with the 11 appointed guru's fiasco and it ain't comin' back this lifetime.

 

He blessed the homosex pair's relationship with each other AS IS, giving it an appearance of acceptance AS IS.

 

Lost in this sad episode is the example Prabhupada set on how to treat homosexuals. Many of his disciples had that orientation yet at the same time he never deviated from calling homosex anything but demonic. He never pretended to "bless" their "love" for each other.

 

You don't bless a perverted relationship, you bless the sincere soul that he may have the strength to resist such a perverted relationship. Sheesh

[tackleberry]

 

I detest the idea of 'end justifies the means' - it is Talmudic, not Vedic.

 

Just curious. Didn't Krisha himself advocate adharmic means to achieve a dharmic end? Doesn't this show that it's only the end that matters, and if the end is dharmic, then the means wouldn't matter that much?

[suchandra]

Even some of the little peons inside of ISKCON are appalled at Hrdayananda's idiocy. This is good: "the king has no clothes," and its increasingly apparent even to the littlest peanut sized pin-heads in ISKCON. All this just after Hrdayananda made some obnoxious comments about Srila Prabhupada's purports which created a previous manure storm, and his previous letter to galva devotees which created another manure storm etc.

[Kulapavana]

 

When you see that the joke was on everyone involved, then you include yourself in it, and will no longer be bitter about suffering at the hands of those madmen, you will realize it was all arranged by Krsna, that Iskcon's reputation is reparable for those who will benefit from it having a good reputation, that those who look askance at Iskcon because of its troubles, were not desirous at heart for Krsna consciousness anyway, and then you can hold your righteous stance without attachment or anger and fight with glee and joy.

 

I realized very early on the improprieties that were taking place in Iskcon and refused to take part in them. I am not bitter about my own suffering... maybe a little... but I am really bitter for all the suffering others had to go through... countless lives twisted and mangled because of our puffed up dogmatic doctrines and our crooked leaders. It gives me joy if I can help even one disgruntled devotee re-discover the beauty of Krsna consciousness.

 

I most certainly do not want to resurect the Iskcon of the 60's or 70's. It is time for a new chapter.

[Kulapavana]

 

Just curious. Didn't Krisha himself advocate adharmic means to achieve a dharmic end? Doesn't this show that it's only the end that matters, and if the end is dharmic, then the means wouldn't matter that much?

 

and precisely what adharmic means did Lord Krsna advocate?

[andy108]

 

I realized very early on the improprieties that were taking place in Iskcon and refused to take part in them. I am not bitter about my own suffering... maybe a little... but I am really bitter for all the suffering others had to go through... countless lives twisted and mangled because of our puffed up dogmatic doctrines and our crooked leaders. It gives me joy if I can help even one disgruntled devotee re-discover the beauty of Krsna consciousness.

 

I most certainly do not want to resurect the Iskcon of the 60's or 70's. It is time for a new chapter.

 

Well then I suggest you focus on that "maybe a little" and own it and transmute it. Not easy, but doable.

 

And to avoid resurecting what is best left dead, be one of the to fully decipher Srila Prabhupada's antidote to the problems that (TRUST ME HE SAW TOO) which he began demanding in 1974 in response to the shenanigans and fall downs and showbottle nonsene, and did not stop til his dying day. Daiva Varnasrama Dharma. Decipher his instructions, imbibe them, implement them, and there will be no more tears on your watch.

 

Hari Bol