Madhva-Gaudiya parampara

[rahalkar]

Hare Krishna everybody,

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to chime in my agreement with the above. There is no "disciplic succession" in which the message of Sri Madhvacharya was transmitted without change to the Gaudiyas. The Bhagavad-gita commentaries of Prabhupada, Baladeva, and Vishvanatha are all different from that of Sri Madhva and actually disagree with him in several important ways. Actually, the Gaudiya commentaries are all different from each other as well.

Not that this should stop any of you. But I agree it is high time that this idea of a "bona fide, unbroken, disciplic succession" from which the Gaudiyas have supposedly received their philosophy pristine and pure, should be laid to rest.

 

 

 

- Gaudiyas claim they have a disciple succession from Sri Madhvacharya

- Gaudiyas treatment of scriptures have far deviated from Sri Madhvacharya's expositions

- The Gaudiyas have formed their own sampradaya

- However, they claim they have Sri Madhvacharya's sanction for their works

- Which is not true.

 

 

1. The Brahma-Madva-Gaudiya Sampradaya Paramapara, Guru-Disciplic succession, was stated by Srila Kavi Karnapura and authorized by Lord Gauranga Himself.

 

There can be no questions whatsoever about the legitimacy of the Parampara coming from Srila Madvacharya to

Lord Gauranga because Lord Gauranga Himself accepted Sri Ishwara Puri in the disciplic succession as his beloved Spiritual Master. If it wasn't bonafide line of disciplic succession, then, the Lord who is knower of everything and who Himself said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita BG 4.2 - Evam Parampara Praptam, would not have accepted Srila Ishwara Puri as His Spiritual Master.

 

Who can know the past, present and future and what's bonafide and what's not better than the Supreme Lord Himself? If the Lord accepted Srila Ishwara Puri as His Spiritual Master, then that authorizes the disciplic succession from Srila Madvacharya to Srila Ishwara Puri and to Lord Gauranga. What more evidence is needed?

 

2. There are few differences in the philosophy explained by Srila Madvacharya's (dvaita philosophy) and that explained in Brahma-Madva-Gaudiya Sampradaya (Achintya Bhedabhed) from-and-after the divine presence of Lord Gauranga in the Brahma-Madva-Gaudiya Sampradaya. Achintya Bhedabhed explanation does not contradict Srila Madvacharya's Dvaita explanations, rather it complements it. Achintya Bhedabhed was given by none other than the Supreme Lord Himself knowing fully well the rules and regulation of being in Parampara System. Anything given by the Lord Himself, how can it be deviation?

 

The all-omnicient, all-knowing Supreme Lord is always free to add/subtract/alter/change/complement whatever and whenever He likes becuase He is knower of the Supreme Absolute Truth because He is the Supreme Absolute Truth. Therefore Achintya Bhedabhed can not be considered deviation, rather it is complementary to the earlier explanations.

 

From Mahabharat, we know that the Lord would rather let go of His own word just to uphold the prestige and honor of the words of His devotee. Everyone knows in Mahabharat, how Lord Krishna broke His own word of not taking up any arms during the war and took the wheel and charged at Sri Bhismadev, just to keep the honor of the vow of Sri Bhisma.

 

Srila Madvacharya is dear devotee of the Lord. The Supreme Lord never violates the words of His own heart - His dear devotee. Therefore Lord Gauranga's Achintya Bhedabhed does not contradict the explanations of Srila Madvacharya, but simply enriches it.

 

3. The conclusion given by Srila Madvacharya and that given in the Brahma-Madva-Gaudiya Sampradaya, are both same, that is - jiva (jiva tattva) and the Lord (Vishnu tattva) are separate and Supreme Lord is the eternal master of the jiva as opposed to Advaita Philosophy of oneness or monism etc.

 

Because the conclusions of Srila Madvacharya and that of Brahma-Madva Gaudiya from-and-after Lord Gauranga are same, it is not deviation.

 

Therefore Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavad Gita As It Is is received through proper disciplic succession from - Lord Krishna... Brahma...... Vyasa... Madva...... Gauranga...Srila Prabhupada.

 

4. Also All four bonafide Sampradayas (Sri-Rudra-Brahma-Kumar) have their own commentaries, methods of sadhana, methods of Deity Worship etc. These commentaries and methods differ regards to few specific details, but the conclusion/essence is the same in all four, that is, Supreme Lord has personal form, jiva (jiva-tattva) and the Lord (Vishnu-tattva) are separate and Lord is the eternal master of jiva. The commonalities far, far exceed few differences, therefore it can not be said that one Sampradaya deviates from the other.

 

Hare Krishna!

[rahalkar]

Hare Krishna everybody,

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

I mentioned Lord Gauranga in my previous post (#126). I want to add Scriptural references which explain the Supreme Personality of Lord Gauranga.

 

Who is Lord Gauranga? Lord Gauranga is none other than the Supreme Lord Krishna. Here are the references:

 

======================================================

Prediction of the name of His mother and the name

of His future birthplace.

 

** In the Garuda-Purana, the Supreme Lord says:

 

aham purno bhavisyami

yuga-sandhyau visesatah

mayapure navadvipe

bhavisyami sachi sutah

 

I will take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi sutah], in Navadvip-Mayapur [mayapure navadvipe]. I will come in my complete spiritual form in the first part of Kali-Yuga.

 

===============================================

 

Prediction of the future advent of Sri Chaitanya

 

** In the Padma-Purana, it is said:

 

yatrayogesvarah saksad

yogi-cintyo janardanah

chaitanya vapur aste vai

sandranandatmakah

 

The Supreme Personality, Janardana, who is the object of the yogis' meditation [yogi-chintyo- janardanah], who saves the devotees from various sufferings, and who is the master of all yogic practices [yogesvarah], who is always full of divine transcendental cstasy and bliss [sandra-ananda-atmakah], will advent in His own divine form of Sri Chaitanya [Chaitanya-vapah].

 

================================================

Description of the time and place Sri Chaitanya's future advent, name of His mother

 

** In the Padma-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself states:

 

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam

gaurangotham mahi-tale

bhagirathi-tate ramye

bhavisyami sachi-sutah

 

I shall appear on this earth [mahi-tale] in the first part of Kali-Yuga [kaleh prathama sandhyayam] in a beautiful place on the bank of the Bhagirathi [bhagirathi-tate ramye]. I shall have a golden form [gaurangah], and I shall take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi-sutah].

 

===================================================

 

Prediction of His mother's name and the nature of His specific preaching method [sankirtana].

 

** The Supreme Personality of Godhead states in the Narada-Purana:

 

divija bhuvi jayadhvam

jayadhvam bhakta rupinah

kalau sankirtana arambhe

bhavisyami sachi-sutah

 

O Divija (demigods), please come and advent as devotees on this earth [bhuvi jayadhvam jayadhvam] in the age of Kali-Yuga. I will incarnate as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi-sutah] to inaugurate the congregational chanting of the name of Krishna [kalau sankirtana arambhe].

 

====================================================

Prediction of the name of His future first wife and His future assumption of the sannyasa order.

 

** In the same Garuda-Purana, it is also stated:

 

kaleh prathama sandhyayam

lakshmi- kanto bhavisyati

daru-brahma-samipa-sthah

sannyasi gaura-vigrahah

 

In the first part of Kali-Yuga, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will come in a gold-like form. First He will become the husband of Lakshmi [srimati Lakshmi Devi, Lord Chaitanya's first wife]. Then He will become a sannyasi, near Lord Jagannatha who will appear in a divine wooden form.

 

===============================================

 

Prediction of the bodily color of Sri Chaitanya and the nature of His future activities.

 

** In the Nrsimha-Purana, it is said:

 

satye daitya-kuladhi-nasa-samaye

simhordhva-martyakrtis

tretayam das-kandharam

paribhavan rameti namakrtih

 

gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure

bharam haran dvapare

gaurangah priya-kirtanah

kali-yuge chaitanya-nama prabhuh

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead who in the Satya-Yuga appeared as a half-man, half-lion to cure a terrible disease that had ravaged the daityas, and who in the Treta-Yuga appeared as a person named Rama [Lord Ramachandra], the person who defeated the ten-headed Demon Ravana, and who in the Dvapara-Yuga removed the earth's burden, and protected the Gopa [cowherd men] people of Vraja-pura, will appear again in the Kali-Yuga.

 

His form will be golden, He will delight in chanting the Lord's holy names, and His name will be Chaitanya."

 

================================================

 

Prediction that the Supreme Lord will leave Goloka and corne in a golden form.

 

** In the Markandeya-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares:

 

golokam ca parityajya

lokanam trana-karanat

kalau gauranga-rupena

lila-lavanya-vigrahah

 

"In the Kali-Yuga, I will leave Goloka and, to save the people of the world, I will become the handsome and playful Lord Gauranga."

 

===================================================

Prediction of the name of the mother of Sri Chaitanya and His future role as the deliverer of the darkness of Kali-Yuga.

 

** In the Vamana-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares:

 

kali-ghora-tamas-channat

sarvan acara varjitan

sachigarbhe ca sambhuya

tarayisyami narada

 

O Narada Muni, I will take birth in the womb of Sachi [sachi-garbhe ca sambhuya]. I shall save the people, who will give up all proper good conduct [sarvan acara varyitan], from the terrible darkness of the age of Kali-Yuga [kali-ghora-tamas-channan].

 

==================================================

[sharathegde]

KR: Evidently not, as no one is qualified to assess an individual's "real" Varna and recent examples of such attempts have created disastrous results.

I wouldn´t call the results disastrous, even though it cannot be denied that some people couldn't keep up with their Sanyasa vows.

There are many good things that you forget to see, thousands of people from Beef eating families are taking Hari nama, have given up meat eating, intoxication etc.The number of people who have given up their devotional life is insignificant compared to the number of people who have been brought to the culture of Hari nama. There are many examples of people born in Brahmana families also who have blooped. The Madhva mathas also are no exception. We all know what effect the hereditary caste system had on the Indian society. If you have ever visited an Indian village, you will know how badly people of the lower castes are treated even to this day.

This has also resulted in people leaving Sanatan Dharma and turning to other religions like Buddhism, Christianity etc. People who don't have basic human values go by as Brahmanas, just because they were born in

a Brahmana family. Accepting such people as leaders of the society is just denying common sense.

-------------------------------

KR:Then the Purana agrees that Varna is determined by birth. Otherwise, this statement has no meaning.

Sorry, that was my mistake, I meant Rakshasas also take birth in Brahmana families and not really that rakshasas are born as Brahmanas.

And this is the verse that I was referring to.

The Varaha Purana states -

raksasah kalim asritya

jayante brahma-yonisu

utpanna brahmana-kule

badhante srotriyan krsna

( In Kali Yuga Rakshasa are born in Brahmana Kulasa and create problems in hearing about Krishna).

---

KR: A dubious source. There is also an Allah Upanishad & a Chaitanya Upanishad.

There may be some upanishads which may be dubious, but you can't say that about the Vajra sucika as well. This upanishad is one of the 108 upanishads mentioned in Muktiko upanishad.

-----------

KR:Wrong. Gautama's first question to Jabala was on his lineage. Since the boy did not know who his father was, Gautama asked him more questions to determine his lineage and accepted the boy as a disciple *only* after he was satisfied about his lineage.

 

A: Sorry, I have to disagree with the second part of what you said.

Can you tell me how was Gautama muni able to figure out his lineage when the boy or his mother did not know it themselves? It was purely based on the qualities that he observed and Srimad Madhvacharya has

also said the same.

 

KR:No. You are mixing real life with academics. If you go by the book, no one on the planet displays all the characteristics of a single Varna and none other. Hence, it is a wasted attempt to determine Varna by characteristics. The only choices you have are to accept Varna by birth or reject the Varna system. Introducing new concepts of dynamic Varna, etc., are not acceptable.

If no one possesses or can develop all the characteristics of a brahmana how can anyone be eligible to attain moksha. It is hard for me to understand how a person with even some degree of untruthfulness or lustfulness can get moksha.

Your understanding implies even great devotees like Kanaka dasa had to have some degree of untruthfulness (or any of the qualities of a Sudra) to a certain extent, just because he was born a Sudra.

-----

KR: Isolated quotes from unknown sources do not make sustainable arguments .

You can find plenty of verses from scriptures accepted by both the GVs and the Madhvas like the Padma Purana, Mahabharata, Bhagavata

at gosai.com

(i couldn't post the link because i am not allowed to until i make at least 15 posts, i am sure u know of it, if u don't type 'madhva gaudiya gosai' in google )

If you think they are taken out of context, then kindly explain what is the context and why they are not be understood as the GVs understand them to be. If you think the verses/sources don't exist, then any discussion is pointless.

How can you deny the well known case of Vishwamitra changing his Varna from Kshatriya to Brahmana. Even If your argument is Viswamitra had to do penance for thousands of years to become a Brahmana,

you cannot deny that change in Varna is possible. And also Viswamitra perfomed such severe austerities not to become just another Brahmana

but to become a Brahmarshi.

----------

[sharathegde]

KR: The only choices you have are to accept Varna by birth or reject the Varna system. Introducing new concepts of dynamic Varna, etc., are not acceptable.

"The idea of chaturvarnya or 'four colors' in the Gita vindicates this view only. The Gita idea of 'four colors' is quite distinct from the idea of 'four castes' prevelent today. It is a idea which relates only to the soul's inmost nature or personality-trait. The true color of the soul needs to be discovered. That indeed is a right social order. In such a social order, the son of a low-born (sudra) may be a nobleman (brahmana); contrarywise, a brahmana's son may also be a sudra. For, 'varna' or color is not something which is transmitted hereditarily; it is something quite personal; something which is determined by the individual's own personality traits." (Madhwacharya –Life and Teachings, Sri Bannanje Sanmana Samiti, Poorna Prajna Vidyapeetha, Bangalore 1997)

 

Not every Brahmana can become the pontiff of a Madhva math, various qualities of the person (ranging from horoscope, his mastery over scriptures, service to Guru etc) are considered before one is appointed as a pontiff. If qualities of the person are used to identify an excellent brahmana among brahmanas, why shouldn't the qualities of a person be considered to differentiate between a brahmana and sudra ??

[sharathegde]

KR: Why do we need to do that? I fail to see the relevance. How do we know Prabhupada comes from an unbroken disciplic succession from where ever he claims he is? How do we know they were all genuine? Did you ever pose this question to your Gurus?

Why shouldn't it be relevant ? Since you insist so much on the lineage.

Can u trace your lineage back to Brahma?

Well I can trace my Guru parampara back to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

(and even to Vyasa deva, but I don't want to get into that discussion here),

who is considered as Sri Krsna by us.

[raghu]

 

KR: Why do we need to do that? I fail to see the relevance. How do we know Prabhupada comes from an unbroken disciplic succession from where ever he claims he is? How do we know they were all genuine? Did you ever pose this question to your Gurus?

Why shouldn't it be relevant ? Since you insist so much on the lineage.

Can u trace your lineage back to Brahma?

Well I can trace my Guru parampara back to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

(and even to Vyasa deva, but I don't want to get into that discussion here),

who is considered as Sri Krsna by us.

 

I'm still going back and catching up on the threads I have been unable to access. I think this was one that I wanted to respond to but I will come back to it in a bit.

[ranjeetmore]

raghu kindly read post # 127.

[kaisersose]

 

raghu kindly read post # 127.

 

Everyone of those quotes is bogus. There is no standard avatar list of Vishnu that shows Sai Baba, Chaitanya, Swami Narayan, Prabhupada, Osho Rajneesh etc., as avatars.

 

You should be familiar with the concept as you were quoting bogus texts of Shankara here sometime ago.

 

Cheers

[raghu]

 

raghu kindly read post # 127.

 

Ranjeet,

 

How can I locate those quotes without verse numbers? If you want me to believe those are real quotes that I need some means by which to locate them. I have the Puranas you quoted in their original Sanskrit.

 

regards,

 

Raghu

[ranjeetmore]

 

Everyone of those quotes is bogus. There is no standard avatar list of Vishnu that shows Sai Baba, Chaitanya, Swami Narayan, Prabhupada, Osho Rajneesh etc., as avatars.

 

You should be familiar with the concept as you were quoting bogus texts of Shankara here sometime ago.

 

Cheers

 

Are you suggesting that I believe Sai Baba is an incarnation..even Rajneesh ???

 

God,You are mistaken..

 

Anyway...I think you are deluded.

 

I have already said that I have no interest in establishing Chaitanya as God.He is THE MOST ATTRACTIVE personality in the bhakti tradition and that's that....

 

Kaisersose..you are truly repulsive.

[ranjeetmore]

oh and if by 'bogus texts of shankara',you mean,'prabodha sudhakara',boy you need to eat your own head.

 

Ignorance is bliss?

Hardly..It is downright foolishness.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Adharam Madhuram, Vadanam Madhuram,

Nayanam Madhuram, Hasitham Madhuram,

Hrudhayam Madhuram, Gamanam Madhuram,

Madhuradhipather Akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

Vachanam Madhuram, Charitham Madhuram,

Vasanam Madhuram, Valitham Madhuram,

Chalitham Madhuram, Bramitham Madhuram,

Madhurathipather Akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

Venur Madhura, Renur Madhura,

Panir Madhura, Padhou Madhura,

Nrithyam Madhuram, Sakhyam Madhuram,

Madurathipather Akhilam Madhuram

 

 

Geetham Madhuram, Peetham Madhuram,

Bhuktham Madhuram,Suptham Madhuram,

Roopam Madhuram, Thilakam Madhuram

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

Karanam Madhram, Tharanam Madhuram,

Haranam Madhuram, Ramanam Madhuram,

Vamitham Madhuram, Samitham Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

Gunja Madhura, Mala Madhura,

Yamuna Madhura, Veechi Madhura,

Salilam Madhuram, Kamalam Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

Gopi Madhura, Leela Madhura,

Yuktham Madhuram, Muktham Madhuram,

Drishtam Madhuram,Sishtam Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

Gopa Madhura, Gavo Madhura,

Yashtir Madhura, Srushtir Madhra,

Dhalitham Madhram, Phalitham Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

[sant]

 

 

Adharam Madhuram, Vadanam Madhuram,

 

 

 

Nayanam Madhuram, Hasitham Madhuram,

Hrudhayam Madhuram, Gamanam Madhuram,

Madhuradhipather Akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vachanam Madhuram, Charitham Madhuram,

 

 

 

Vasanam Madhuram, Valitham Madhuram,

Chalitham Madhuram, Bramitham Madhuram,

Madhurathipather Akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Venur Madhura, Renur Madhura,

 

 

 

Panir Madhura, Padhou Madhura,

Nrithyam Madhuram, Sakhyam Madhuram,

Madurathipather Akhilam Madhuram

 

 

 

 

 

Geetham Madhuram, Peetham Madhuram,

 

 

 

Bhuktham Madhuram,Suptham Madhuram,

Roopam Madhuram, Thilakam Madhuram

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Karanam Madhram, Tharanam Madhuram,

 

 

 

Haranam Madhuram, Ramanam Madhuram,

Vamitham Madhuram, Samitham Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gunja Madhura, Mala Madhura,

 

 

 

Yamuna Madhura, Veechi Madhura,

Salilam Madhuram, Kamalam Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gopi Madhura, Leela Madhura,

 

 

 

Yuktham Madhuram, Muktham Madhuram,

Drishtam Madhuram,Sishtam Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gopa Madhura, Gavo Madhura,

 

 

 

Yashtir Madhura, Srushtir Madhra,

Dhalitham Madhram, Phalitham Madhuram,

Madhurathipather akhilam Madhuram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beautiful actually maybe i cant propelry describe the beauty of this song.

[raghu]

I don't understand why any postings are being added to this thread. The idea of a continuous "Madhva-Gaudiya parampara" has already been refuted. Ranjeet never answered my question about his so-called sastric evidence, which is not surprising. And the basic conclusion seems to be that anyone who questions the historic or philosophical basis of a "Madhva-Gaudiya" parampara is Offensive.

 

Let me know if I have gotten any of that wrong.

 

But in any case, thanks for the poetry of Vallabhacharya. It is quite beautiful, especially when sung. If I may suggest - listen to the rendition by the late M.S. Subbulakshmi which is really quite pregnant with devotional emotion. Hopefully the fact that she was a Hindu won't be a problem.

[raghu]

 

Hare Krishna everybody,

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

I mentioned Lord Gauranga in my previous post (#126). I want to add Scriptural references which explain the Supreme Personality of Lord Gauranga.

 

Who is Lord Gauranga? Lord Gauranga is none other than the Supreme Lord Krishna. Here are the references:

 

======================================================

Prediction of the name of His mother and the name

of His future birthplace.

 

** In the Garuda-Purana, the Supreme Lord says:

 

aham purno bhavisyami

yuga-sandhyau visesatah

mayapure navadvipe

bhavisyami sachi sutah

 

I will take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi sutah], in Navadvip-Mayapur [mayapure navadvipe]. I will come in my complete spiritual form in the first part of Kali-Yuga.

 

===============================================

 

Rahalkar,

 

I have the entire Garuda Purana in the original Sanskrit. I looked and looked and could not find this verse anywhere.

 

 

Prediction of the future advent of Sri Chaitanya

 

** In the Padma-Purana, it is said:

 

yatrayogesvarah saksad

yogi-cintyo janardanah

chaitanya vapur aste vai

sandranandatmakah

 

The Supreme Personality, Janardana, who is the object of the yogis' meditation [yogi-chintyo- janardanah], who saves the devotees from various sufferings, and who is the master of all yogic practices [yogesvarah], who is always full of divine transcendental cstasy and bliss [sandra-ananda-atmakah], will advent in His own divine form of Sri Chaitanya [Chaitanya-vapah].

 

================================================

Description of the time and place Sri Chaitanya's future advent, name of His mother

 

** In the Padma-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself states:

 

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam

gaurangotham mahi-tale

bhagirathi-tate ramye

bhavisyami sachi-sutah

 

I shall appear on this earth [mahi-tale] in the first part of Kali-Yuga [kaleh prathama sandhyayam] in a beautiful place on the bank of the Bhagirathi [bhagirathi-tate ramye]. I shall have a golden form [gaurangah], and I shall take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi-sutah].

 

===================================================

 

I looked in my edition of the Padma Purana. These verse are nowhere to be found in the Padma Purana.

 

 

Prediction of His mother's name and the nature of His specific preaching method [sankirtana].

 

** The Supreme Personality of Godhead states in the Narada-Purana:

 

divija bhuvi jayadhvam

jayadhvam bhakta rupinah

kalau sankirtana arambhe

bhavisyami sachi-sutah

 

O Divija (demigods), please come and advent as devotees on this earth [bhuvi jayadhvam jayadhvam] in the age of Kali-Yuga. I will incarnate as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi-sutah] to inaugurate the congregational chanting of the name of Krishna [kalau sankirtana arambhe].

 

====================================================

 

You guessed it. This is not in the Narada Purana as claimed.

 

 

Prediction of the name of His future first wife and His future assumption of the sannyasa order.

 

** In the same Garuda-Purana, it is also stated:

 

kaleh prathama sandhyayam

lakshmi- kanto bhavisyati

daru-brahma-samipa-sthah

sannyasi gaura-vigrahah

 

In the first part of Kali-Yuga, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will come in a gold-like form. First He will become the husband of Lakshmi [srimati Lakshmi Devi, Lord Chaitanya's first wife]. Then He will become a sannyasi, near Lord Jagannatha who will appear in a divine wooden form.

 

===============================================

 

Nope, not in the Garuda Purana. I looked for this too.

 

 

Prediction of the bodily color of Sri Chaitanya and the nature of His future activities.

 

** In the Nrsimha-Purana, it is said:

 

satye daitya-kuladhi-nasa-samaye

simhordhva-martyakrtis

tretayam das-kandharam

paribhavan rameti namakrtih

 

gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure

bharam haran dvapare

gaurangah priya-kirtanah

kali-yuge chaitanya-nama prabhuh

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead who in the Satya-Yuga appeared as a half-man, half-lion to cure a terrible disease that had ravaged the daityas, and who in the Treta-Yuga appeared as a person named Rama [Lord Ramachandra], the person who defeated the ten-headed Demon Ravana, and who in the Dvapara-Yuga removed the earth's burden, and protected the Gopa [cowherd men] people of Vraja-pura, will appear again in the Kali-Yuga.

 

His form will be golden, He will delight in chanting the Lord's holy names, and His name will be Chaitanya."

 

================================================

 

The Narasimha Purana is actually an Upa-Purana, but I have the two volume edition published by Nag Publishers. Again, this quote is also not there.

 

 

Prediction that the Supreme Lord will leave Goloka and corne in a golden form.

 

** In the Markandeya-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares:

 

golokam ca parityajya

lokanam trana-karanat

kalau gauranga-rupena

lila-lavanya-vigrahah

 

"In the Kali-Yuga, I will leave Goloka and, to save the people of the world, I will become the handsome and playful Lord Gauranga."

 

===================================================

 

Nope, I checked for this too. It's not in Markandeya Purana.

 

 

Prediction of the name of the mother of Sri Chaitanya and His future role as the deliverer of the darkness of Kali-Yuga.

 

** In the Vamana-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares:

 

kali-ghora-tamas-channat

sarvan acara varjitan

sachigarbhe ca sambhuya

tarayisyami narada

 

O Narada Muni, I will take birth in the womb of Sachi [sachi-garbhe ca sambhuya]. I shall save the people, who will give up all proper good conduct [sarvan acara varyitan], from the terrible darkness of the age of Kali-Yuga [kali-ghora-tamas-channan].

 

==================================================

 

This verse is not in the Vamana Purana.

 

I'm sorry to say that none of your quotes can be found in the puranas from you claim they are quoted.

[sant]

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahalkar

Hare Krishna everybody,

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I mentioned Lord Gauranga in my previous post (#126). I want to add Scriptural references which explain the Supreme Personality of Lord Gauranga.

Who is Lord Gauranga? Lord Gauranga is none other than the Supreme Lord Krishna. Here are the references:

================================================== ====

Prediction of the name of His mother and the name

of His future birthplace.

** In the Garuda-Purana, the Supreme Lord says:

aham purno bhavisyami

yuga-sandhyau visesatah

mayapure navadvipe

bhavisyami sachi sutah

I will take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi sutah], in Navadvip-Mayapur [mayapure navadvipe]. I will come in my complete spiritual form in the first part of Kali-Yuga.

===============================================

 

 

Rahalkar,

 

I have the entire Garuda Purana in the original Sanskrit. I looked and looked and could not find this verse anywhere.

 

Quote:

Prediction of the future advent of Sri Chaitanya

 

** In the Padma-Purana, it is said:

 

yatrayogesvarah saksad

yogi-cintyo janardanah

chaitanya vapur aste vai

sandranandatmakah

 

The Supreme Personality, Janardana, who is the object of the yogis' meditation [yogi-chintyo- janardanah], who saves the devotees from various sufferings, and who is the master of all yogic practices [yogesvarah], who is always full of divine transcendental cstasy and bliss [sandra-ananda-atmakah], will advent in His own divine form of Sri Chaitanya [Chaitanya-vapah].

 

================================================

Description of the time and place Sri Chaitanya's future advent, name of His mother

 

** In the Padma-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself states:

 

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam

gaurangotham mahi-tale

bhagirathi-tate ramye

bhavisyami sachi-sutah

 

I shall appear on this earth [mahi-tale] in the first part of Kali-Yuga [kaleh prathama sandhyayam] in a beautiful place on the bank of the Bhagirathi [bhagirathi-tate ramye]. I shall have a golden form [gaurangah], and I shall take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi-sutah].

 

================================================== =

 

I looked in my edition of the Padma Purana. These verse are nowhere to be found in the Padma Purana.

 

Quote:

Prediction of His mother's name and the nature of His specific preaching method [sankirtana].

 

** The Supreme Personality of Godhead states in the Narada-Purana:

 

divija bhuvi jayadhvam

jayadhvam bhakta rupinah

kalau sankirtana arambhe

bhavisyami sachi-sutah

 

O Divija (demigods), please come and advent as devotees on this earth [bhuvi jayadhvam jayadhvam] in the age of Kali-Yuga. I will incarnate as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi-sutah] to inaugurate the congregational chanting of the name of Krishna [kalau sankirtana arambhe].

 

================================================== ==

 

You guessed it. This is not in the Narada Purana as claimed.

 

Quote:

Prediction of the name of His future first wife and His future assumption of the sannyasa order.

 

** In the same Garuda-Purana, it is also stated:

 

kaleh prathama sandhyayam

lakshmi- kanto bhavisyati

daru-brahma-samipa-sthah

sannyasi gaura-vigrahah

 

In the first part of Kali-Yuga, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will come in a gold-like form. First He will become the husband of Lakshmi [srimati Lakshmi Devi, Lord Chaitanya's first wife]. Then He will become a sannyasi, near Lord Jagannatha who will appear in a divine wooden form.

 

===============================================

 

Nope, not in the Garuda Purana. I looked for this too.

 

Quote:

Prediction of the bodily color of Sri Chaitanya and the nature of His future activities.

 

** In the Nrsimha-Purana, it is said:

 

satye daitya-kuladhi-nasa-samaye

simhordhva-martyakrtis

tretayam das-kandharam

paribhavan rameti namakrtih

 

gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure

bharam haran dvapare

gaurangah priya-kirtanah

kali-yuge chaitanya-nama prabhuh

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead who in the Satya-Yuga appeared as a half-man, half-lion to cure a terrible disease that had ravaged the daityas, and who in the Treta-Yuga appeared as a person named Rama [Lord Ramachandra], the person who defeated the ten-headed Demon Ravana, and who in the Dvapara-Yuga removed the earth's burden, and protected the Gopa [cowherd men] people of Vraja-pura, will appear again in the Kali-Yuga.

 

His form will be golden, He will delight in chanting the Lord's holy names, and His name will be Chaitanya."

 

================================================

 

The Narasimha Purana is actually an Upa-Purana, but I have the two volume edition published by Nag Publishers. Again, this quote is also not there.

 

Quote:

Prediction that the Supreme Lord will leave Goloka and corne in a golden form.

 

** In the Markandeya-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares:

 

golokam ca parityajya

lokanam trana-karanat

kalau gauranga-rupena

lila-lavanya-vigrahah

 

"In the Kali-Yuga, I will leave Goloka and, to save the people of the world, I will become the handsome and playful Lord Gauranga."

 

================================================== =

 

Nope, I checked for this too. It's not in Markandeya Purana.

 

Quote:

Prediction of the name of the mother of Sri Chaitanya and His future role as the deliverer of the darkness of Kali-Yuga.

 

** In the Vamana-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares:

 

kali-ghora-tamas-channat

sarvan acara varjitan

sachigarbhe ca sambhuya

tarayisyami narada

 

O Narada Muni, I will take birth in the womb of Sachi [sachi-garbhe ca sambhuya]. I shall save the people, who will give up all proper good conduct [sarvan acara varyitan], from the terrible darkness of the age of Kali-Yuga [kali-ghora-tamas-channan].

 

==================================================

 

This verse is not in the Vamana Purana.

 

I'm sorry to say that none of your quotes can be found in the puranas from you claim they are quoted.

 

 

This just shows youve not read anything in full.

[kaisersose]

 

This just shows youve not read anything in full.

 

It just shows you have not read these sources nor have you thought this issue through.

 

If Chaitanya was so clearly mentioned in these many sources, why is he not in the main list of avatars?

Why didn't any Guru foretell his coming?

Why was the compiler of this list compelled to not mention verse numbers for any of these sources?

There are similar quotes from the Rig-veda on the web predicting the arrival of Mohamed? Do you also accept these predictions without questions, just as you accepted these quotes on Chaitanya without evre doubting them? If not, why?

 

This topic has been discussed in detail on these forums a long time ago - If you can see those old posts.

 

Cheers

[sant]

 

It just shows you have not read these sources nor have you thought this issue through.

 

If Chaitanya was so clearly mentioned in these many sources, why is he not in the main list of avatars?

Why didn't any Guru foretell his coming?

Why was the compiler of this list compelled to not mention verse numbers for any of these sources?

There are similar quotes from the Rig-veda on the web predicting the arrival of Mohamed? Do you also accept these predictions without questions, just as you accepted these quotes on Chaitanya without evre doubting them? If not, why?

 

This topic has been discussed in detail on these forums a long time ago - If you can see those old posts.

 

Cheers

You are always ready to not beleive.NOt only hare krishnas beleive in chaitanya mahaprabhu but there are others also,but you dont beleive in ram or krishna also what to talk about chatianya mahaprabhu.

[sant]

 

 

Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu

(Chap 19) Soot Jee said - "After telling the grace of all Devtaa, Brihaspati himself produced his part from his mouth and was born in Braahman Yoni. He was born as the son of Brahmdatt of Ishtikaa Nagaree and his name was Ropan. He propagated for wearing garland knitted in cotton thread, to apply Teekaa mixed with water, doing Jaap of Vaasudev Mantra. He came to Krishn Chaitanya and started worshipping Krishn after taking his blanket by his permission. Now you listen to about Vishnu by listening to which all fear are gone.

When Chaitanya became five years old, Eeshwar Puree was shining in Bengal province. He had attained special Siddhi (Power) through worship of Shaaradaa (Saraswatee Devee). This gave a place to pride in his mind. Once he came to Shaantipur and started doing Paath of a Divine passage written by himself. At the same time Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu came to be happened there. He said to praying Eeshwar Puree - "Mahaatman, Your work seems faulty." Hearing this Eeshwar Puree got surprised. Seeing her own Bhakt embarrassed, Shaaradaa said to him - "He is Yagyaansh Hari Krishn Chaitanya in person." Hearing this Eeshwar Puree became his disciple and a worshipper of Krishn.

There was a Shreedhar named Braahman who worshipped Shiv Jee. Once king of Pattan Nagar heard Mad-Bhaagvat 7-day story from him and gave lots of money to him. He came to his in-law's house with that money. There he lived for one month and then proceeded towards his own house. Seven thieves also followed them with bad intentions taking oath of Raam. On the way, in a forest, at its other end they killed Shreedhar and ran away with his wife and the wealth filled bullock cart. His wife looked at back repeatedly. Thieves said - "What ere you looking at that side, your husband is already dead." She said - "I am looking at that Raam whose oath you took." At this Raam appeared there, He killed those seven thieves and brought dead Shreedhar alive. Then He sent him to Vrindaa Van. From that day he became Vaishnav. When Yagyaansh Chaitanya became seven years old, he went to Shaanti Puree, got Brahm Gyaan from Chaitanya Dev and became his disciple. Later he wrote commentary on Mad-Bhaagvat."

Soot Jee further said - "There used to live a learned Braahman named Raam Sharmaa. Once he did Jaap of Panchaakshar (5-Akshar) Mantra of Shiv Jee waking the whole night on Shiv Raatri day in Avikteshwar. Shankar got pleased with his worship, and asked him to ask for a Var. He did Pranaam to him and said - "Prabho, You live in whose heart, let that Devtaa live in my heart." Hearing this Maheshwar laughed and said - "I always meditate on Raam, Lakshman and Balabhadra Jee, so you also have them and be happy." After that Raam Sharmaa became the worshipper of Raam. When Krishn Chaitanya became 12 years old, then he came to him, became his disciple and started worshipping him. He wrote "Adhyaatm Raamaayan" at the order of Krishn Chaitanya.*

* Note - Although Raam Sharmaa has been told here as the writer of Adhyaatm Raamaayan, but often all learned people consider it a work by Vyaas Dev. Aanand Raamaayan also admires this work.

Hey Muni, Jeevaanand (Jeev Goswaamee) came to Shaanti Puree with Roopaanand (Roop Goswaamee) hearing about Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu. They both became his disciples. Jeevaanand wrote Shat-Sandarbh. Roopaanand and Roopaanand wrote Krishn Khand of 10,000 Shlok. Aftersome time Vishnu Swaamee also came there. After saluting 19-year old Krishn Chaitanya, he asked him - "Who is the respectable Devtaa for all Devtaa in the whole Universe?" Mahaaprabhu said -"Mahaadev is the most respectable Devtaa who is kind to his Bhakt. Vishnu, Rudra, Brahmaa etc all Devtaa worship him. Whoever Vishnu Bhakt do Shiv Poojaa, they attain Vaishnavee Bhakti by the grace of Shiv." Then he started worshipping Shiv doing Jaap of Krishn Mantra. He wrote Vaishnavee Sanhitaa. Krishn's Bhakt Madhwaachaarya also came there and became his disciple.

Chaitanya in Jagannaath Puree

Soot Jee said - "Shiv Bhakt Bhattojideekshit came to Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu and accepted his discipleship. He explained Ved's 3rd part Vyaakaran which was already written by Paanini, and wrote "Siddhaant Kaumudee". Soorya Bhakt Varaahmiri named learned man came to Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu when he was 22 years old and became his disciple. He wrote several books on astrology.* Shiv Bhakt Vaanee Bhooshan became his disciple when he was 23 years old. Vaanee Bhooshan wrote Chhand Shaastra.

* Note - Varaahmihir was one of the nine gems of Vikramaaditya's court. He has written several books which have been commented by Utpal Bhatt etc. Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu's time perios is supposed to be 14th century.

Then came a Brahm Bhakt Dhanvantari named Braahman who accepted his discipleship and wrote Vedaang. There were his other disciples also apart from Sushrut. Buddha follower Jayadev also came to 25 year old Chaitanya. Chaitanya said to him - "Your prime Devtaa is Jagannaath Jee of Udeesaa, I should also go there with my disciples." So all of them went to Jagannaath Puree. All Siddhi and Nidhi came to serve them. Along with Shaiv and Shaakt, 10,000 Vaishnav went to Puree.

Seeing him coming Bhagavaan Jagannath Jee came there in disguise of a Braahman. Krishn Chaitanya asked - "In this Kali Yug which path do you consider the most appropriate, I wish to hear it with its elements." Jagannaath Jee said - "Mlechchh of Mishra Desh, ruled by Kaashyap, have attained Braahmanship. They have kept Shikhaa, studied Ved and worshipped Indra. Being sad with this, Indra came to me in Shwet Dweep and prayed me. I gave him Var that I would be born in Kali Yug and I asked Indra also 12 Aaditya to be born here. I am born as Daarupaashaan on the banks of Sindhu River. I will stay in the temple built by Indradyumn named king. Mahaaprabhu Chaitanya will tell the importance of this place. This place fulfills all wishes. There is no need to do any Vrat etc in the . I am the destroyer of all sins in Kali Yug

 

[raghu]

 

This just shows youve not read anything in full.

 

If you truly believe that, then you should have no problem providing the exact verse numbers for those verses.

 

Until then, I can only assume that someone merely made up these verses and passed them off as Puranic in origin. But if you provide verse numbers and I am able to locate them, then I will amend my views.

[sant]

 

If you truly believe that, then you should have no problem providing the exact verse numbers for those verses.

 

Until then, I can only assume that someone merely made up these verses and passed them off as Puranic in origin. But if you provide verse numbers and I am able to locate them, then I will amend my views.

The garuda purana ,narad puraan nobody has dones word by word translation.So it is difficult to provide.Youll have to ask someone from iskcon for that.

[Kali_Upasaka]

Garuda Purana verse by verse Hindi translation is available.

[kaisersose]

 

The garuda purana ,narad puraan nobody has dones word by word translation.So it is difficult to provide.Youll have to ask someone from iskcon for that.

 

In other words, you have not examined these sources for yourself, so you have no idea if they are genuine or bogus. You did not answer my earlier questions,

 

1) If Chaitanya was so clearly mentioned in these many sources, why is he not in the main list of avatars?

2) Why didn't any Guru foretell his coming? Vishnu coming down as an avatar is a big deal and should have garnered a lot of attention.

3) Why was the compiler of this list compelled to not mention verse numbers for any of these sources?

4) There are similar quotes from the Rig-veda on the web predicting the arrival of Mohamed. Do you also accept these predictions without questions, just as you accepted these quotes on Chaitanya without ever doubting them? If not, why?

 

Cheers

[Kulapavana]

It is unfortunate that sometimes Gaudiyas to the philosophy of "end justifies the means", which leads some otherwise good devotees to fabricate evidence to support their religious claims.

 

Seeing the flurry of supposedly Puranic quotes here I am surprised that nobody from Iskcon is quoting "Caitanya Upanishad" which even most Gaudiyas consider to be a forgery.

[sant]

http://nitaaiyoga.com/nitaiveda/vedas_1.html

This shows chaitanyas coming. Check these.