Ramanuja-Gaudiya parampara

[Justin]

After seeing all the discussions in another thread I am exited to present a Gaudiya version of Bhagavad Ramanujacharya's education. According to the gaudiyas this is a confidential story that is not known to anyone but took place only between Gauranga and Bhagavad Ramanujacharya. Somehow today it is a well known secret

 

[There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacharya once came to

Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared

before him and said, `Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon

appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra.

 

"With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, `In Your

narration You have mentioned Gauranga, but exactly who He is, I do

not know.'

 

"The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, `Everyone knows Krishna, the

Lord of Goloka. That Krishna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the

Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krishna is fully

manifest in the form of Gauranga, and that Vrndavana is fully

manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord

Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe.

 

"Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for

Gauranga. He said, `Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The

scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't Gauranga-nama-lila

clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti

and Puranas, now I can see the verses about the Gauranga-tattva.

After hearing Your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet

mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order

me, after going to Navadvipa I will preach Gauranga-nama-lila

throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the

hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga

throughout the universe and make all the three worlds into Gauranga-

bhaktas and make them chant Gauranga's Name. Please instruct me.'

 

"Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, `Ramanuja, do not

broadcast like this. Keep the confidential name, pastimes and abode

of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes

will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa,

while in your heart worship and chant the name of Gauranga

constantly.'

 

"Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction

for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed

prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura

and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Shri,

Bhu, and Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain

darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume

the enchanting form of Gauranga, the son of Jagannatha Misra.

Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His

lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired

and recited prayers of praise. `I must see Gauranga's actual lila on

earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!'

 

On his death bed Shri Ramanuja is said to have articulated some

statements to his disciples.]

[Justin]

Here is another fabricated tale:

 

Around this time, the members of the Sri sampradaya (Ramanujacharya's followers) began to raise some arguments in the court of the king at Jaipur. They complained that as the Gaudiya Vaishnavas had no commentary on the Vedanta sutra, they were not qualified to worship the Deity and therefore the worship should be turned over to the Sri sampradaya. They also objected to the worship of Srimati Radharani along with Sri Sri Govinda-Gopinatha as not being authorised anywhere in the shastras.

 

Bringing the commentary with him, Sri Baladeva again came to the assembly of the Ramanandi scholars. After reading the commentary they were simply speechless. Thus the victory of the Gaudiya sampradaya was announced far and wide and the king, as well as the other devotees, began to float in the ocean of bliss. The scholars then bestowed upon Sri Baladeva the title 'Vidyabhusana'.

 

This assembly took place in the year 1628 Sakabda, at Golta near the present city of Jaipur. Baladeva Vidyabhusana installed the Deity of Vijaya Gopala there at Golta Mandira, but the whereabouts of this Deity are at present not known. From this day the Maharaja of Jaipur announced that Sri Govinda's arati would be performed first and then the other temples could perform their aratis.

 

After accepting defeat, the Sri Vaishnava scholars expressed their desire to accept initiation from Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana. However, he declined their request by stating that amongst the four authorised sampradayas, the Sri sampradaya was highly respectable and the foremost adherent of dasya-bhakti (devotion in servitorship). If there was any cause of loss of respect to the sampradaya this might be considered an offense.

[Justin]

deleted

[Justin]

Here is the truth: Gaudiyas had no authenticity of disciple succession. So they made it up. Laxmi never taught Sri Ramanuja and Brahma never taught Sri Madhva. This is all made up. Then they plagiarized the works of Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhva, Sri Vallabha, and Sri Sankara. They put all their great works in a pool and christened it gaudiya vaishnavism. They poured some of their own concoctions in the pool. Replaced Shriman Narayana with Krsna so to make this cocktail appear as original.

[Beggar]

 

Here is the truth: Gaudiyas had no authenticity of disciple succession. So they made it up. Laxmi never taught Sri Ramanuja and Brahma never taught Sri Madhva. This is all made up. Then they plagiarized the works of Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhva, Sri Vallabha, and Sri Sankara. They put all their great works in a pool and christened it gaudiya vaishnavism. They poured some of their own concoctions in the pool. Replaced Shriman Narayana with Krsna so to make this cocktail appear as original.

 

Ultimately for those without vijnana, everything remains an issue of faith. Go tell the Christians that Shriman Narayana is a bonafide manifestation of God and they will tell you that such an idea is a fairy tale concocted by the devil himself. See if you can get the Islamisists to drink that cocktail, also.

[theist]

For me personally as a non-scholarly type I don't really care about being able to trace a lineage. What proof can be offered for Vyasa appearing to Madhvacarya and initiating him or Narada appearing to Vyasadeva. I am attracted by Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching on rasa and acintya-bedabeha-tattva.

Calling GV a branch of the Madhva line or not makes no difference to me. As far as I see it one could consider Lord Caitanya as having started His own line.

 

The heart of any line is the teaching it is transmitting and arguing debating over who is/was who's guru and who taught who what is really missing the point.

[Justin]

The point is that Gaudiyas are spreading a fairy tales about Sri Vaishnavism. They have been spreading false stuff against Bhagavad Ramanujacharya and his disciple succession. Did you guys read the OP.

 

[There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacharya once came to

Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared

before him and said, `Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon

appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra.

 

"With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, `In Your

narration You have mentioned Gauranga, but exactly who He is, I do

not know.'

 

"The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, `Everyone knows Krishna, the

Lord of Goloka. That Krishna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the

Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krishna is fully

manifest in the form of Gauranga, and that Vrndavana is fully

manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord

Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe.

 

"Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for

Gauranga. He said, `Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The

scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't Gauranga-nama-lila

clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti

and Puranas, now I can see the verses about the Gauranga-tattva.

After hearing Your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet

mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order

me, after going to Navadvipa I will preach Gauranga-nama-lila

throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the

hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga

throughout the universe and make all the three worlds into Gauranga-

bhaktas and make them chant Gauranga's Name. Please instruct me.'

 

"Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, `Ramanuja, do not

broadcast like this. Keep the confidential name, pastimes and abode

of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes

will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa,

while in your heart worship and chant the name of Gauranga

constantly.'

 

"Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction

for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed

prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura

and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Shri,

Bhu, and Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain

darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume

the enchanting form of Gauranga, the son of Jagannatha Misra.

Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His

lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired

and recited prayers of praise. `I must see Gauranga's actual lila on

earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!'

 

On his death bed Shri Ramanuja is said to have articulated some

statements to his disciples.]

[kaisersose]

 

The point is that Gaudiyas are spreading a fairy tales about Sri Vaishnavism. They have been spreading false stuff against Bhagavad Ramanujacharya and his disciple succession. Did you guys read the OP.

 

Of course, everyone read the OP. But if you are looking for someone to show the guts to call a spade a spade, then you will be disappointed.

 

Remember that you are talking to people who have cultivated denial into a fine art form. They will circumvent the truth any which way and continue doing what they have been all along.

 

Cheers

[Beggar]

The point is that many would believe that the Sri Vaishnavas are spreading false stories about reality. This group would include advaitans or monists, all forms of Buddhists, and certainly those in the Abramahamic religions. I don't believe that atheists or Marxist Leninists and especially Maoists would agree either. Every tradition that has concepts of a world or dimensions beyond what we can see with our fleshy eyes cannot prove these things in a scientific laboratory under the electron microscope. If we start looking further into Sri Vaisnavism we will find things that just don't add up from that perspective. So get out of that perspective and stop adding. You're not helping anybody, including yourself.

[Justin]

 

Ultimately for those without vijnana, everything remains an issue of faith. Go tell the Christians that Shriman Narayana is a bonafide manifestation of God and they will tell you that such an idea is a fairy tale concocted by the devil himself. See if you can get the Islamisists to drink that cocktail, also.

listen bud...I do not care for a sampradaya that has no proper guru parampara. The order gives it the authenticity and appreciation. If I were to start a school putting whiskey, rats poison, and bloody mary and sell that concoction, people will want to know where the ingredients came from. If I tell them to take it as a matter of faith then I am encouraging blind belief and possibly no one will buy my stuff. If I tell them the truth of those ingredients and the trans fats it contains, I may get more respect but few customers. If I lie to them saying the ingredients are milk, honey and yoghurt, then I get a huge following. Now I know that christians and islamists will never buy my concoction. So I identify a segment who will fall for the scam. I will tell them that they can attain a higher status by drinking my concoction.

[theist]

If that example is supposed to be analagous to GV then you certainly are an offensive person with no actual spiritual vision.

[Justin]

 

The point is that many would believe that the Sri Vaishnavas are spreading false stories about reality. This group would include advaitans or monists, all forms of Buddhists, and certainly those in the Abramahamic religions. I don't believe that atheists or Marxist Leninists and especially Maoists would agree either. Every tradition that has concepts of a world or dimensions beyond what we can see with our fleshy eyes cannot prove these things in a scientific laboratory under the electron microscope. If we start looking further into Sri Vaisnavism we will find things that just don't add up from that perspective. So get out of that perspective and stop adding. You're not helping anybody, including yourself.

What the heck are you talking? what perspective? what electron microsocope? Did you read my posts. Am I talking about maoists or marxists? I said the Gaudiyas are spreading false stories about Sri Vaishnavas. Not the opposite way as you put it. Should I put the entire post in CAPS for you in case you missed the point.

[Justin]

 

If that example is supposed to be analagous to GV then you certainly are an offensive person with no actual spiritual vision.

It takes one to know one

[Beggar]

The point is that people who rely only on mundane logic will never accept any kind of theism. Theists from other branches of faith will generally recognize only their own deity. One will have to question what Justin's inner motive is?

From observing his tone through his posts, it seems that his mood is to break faith. Perhaps his own faith is extremely shallow and undeveloped or so it seems.

[theist]

Justin has just made my ignore list. Each lifetime comes with a limited amount of time. Not enough of it to waste on silly talk.

[Justin]

Enlightened beggar guru, I still do not understand what you are talking. Your inner vision has supposedly detected and pierced my inner nature. I'd like to understand in detail the wisdom you poured in the post. Do you call pointing out flaws as breaking faith? What do you mean by the term faith breaking? Is shallowness and underdevelopedness only visible in my faith? Are Gaudiyas the most sublime and polite faith on earth? Please explain. I am waiting to be corrected.

[Justin]

 

Justin has just made my ignore list. Each lifetime comes with a limited amount of time. Not enough of it to waste on silly talk.

Good for you sport. Ignorance is bliss.

[Beggar]

 

Are Gaudiyas the most sublime and polite faith on earth? Please explain. I am waiting to be corrected.

 

Just by aligning with a sampradaya will hardly suffice. On must practice the sadhana under the guidance of a real guru and then search for the truth of the sadhana from within and without. Anyone who does that in any Vaisnava sampradaya should genuinely be respected. Then their are various kinds of hypocrisy that we are all guilty of to various degrees. Which kind is your favorite?

[andy108]

This Just in! The most recent Troll to crawl into this forum has exclaimed...

 

 

"Here is another fabricated tale:"

(Fabricated because HE SAYS SO)

 

 

"Here is the truth: Gaudiyas had no authenticity of disciple succession. So they made it up."

(According to the great Justinius who presents no evidence.)

 

 

"The point is that Gaudiyas are spreading a fairy tales about Sri Vaishnavism. They have been spreading false stuff against Bhagavad Ramanujacharya and his disciple succession."

( Take his word for it)

 

 

"listen bud...I do not care for a sampradaya that has no proper guru parampara. The order gives it the authenticity and appreciation."

 

(OOOOOHHHH, a direct order from on high. You best listen up "BUB" when the great Justinius Blows hard to Bloviate. But now we see the real truth. The self-proclaimed expert on propriety of Guru parampara has proclaimed the entire Gaudiya branch of Lord Brahma's Sampradaya to be OUT OF ORDER, imaginatively fabricated their philosophy and are plagiarists.

 

Why?

 

Because he can't stand the idea of Love of God being offered to someone who was not born in a strict Brahmin caste family. The ritual confers the inclination and ability to know and love the Supreme Being, for all others are out of Luck.

 

 

I said the Gaudiyas are spreading false stories about Sri Vaishnavas. Not the opposite way as you put it. Should I put the entire post in CAPS for you in case you missed the point.

 

Translation: If you were too dumb to just believe the accusation the Great Justinius has made against the Gaudiyas, maybe you need to read it in all Capital letters. That will make it sink in.

 

Well, Beggar sums up the situation regarding little Justin when he says.

 

 

From observing his tone through his posts, it seems that his mood is to break faith. Perhaps his own faith is extremely shallow and undeveloped or so it seems.

 

And Theist has the capstone of all advice on the matter.

 

 

Justin has just made my ignore list. Each lifetime comes with a limited amount of time. Not enough of it to waste on silly talk.

[Justin]

 

Just by aligning with a sampradaya will hardly suffice. On must practice the sadhana under the guidance of a real guru and then search for the truth of the sadhana from within and without. Anyone who does that in any Vaisnava sampradaya should genuinely be respected. Then their are various kinds of hypocrisy that we are all guilty of to various degrees. Which kind is your favorite?

beggar swamin, I do not have a guru. Where do I find one? My favorite hypocrisy is to have just one degree of separation and yet be that One. Are you a Sri Vaishnava?

 

Ramanuja dasan.

[Justin]

 

This Just in! The most recent Troll to crawl into this forum has exclaimed...

I crawled into this forum many moons ago. You probably was hiding in the sty and did not notice.

 

 

(Fabricated because HE SAYS SO)

 

(According to the great Justinius who presents no evidence.)

 

( Take his word for it)

What evidence is required to reject a false story. No one has provided evidence that a unicorn does not exist. There are many other stories in the net that belittles Sri Ramanuja just to elevate Chaitanya. What evidence do you need that fabricated stories are not true?

 

 

 

(OOOOOHHHH, a direct order from on high. You best listen up "BUB" when the great Justinius Blows hard to Bloviate. But now we see the real truth. The self-proclaimed expert on propriety of Guru parampara has proclaimed the entire Gaudiya branch of Lord Brahma's Sampradaya to be OUT OF ORDER, imaginatively fabricated their philosophy and are plagiarists.

because Brahma sampradaya, Laxmi sampradaya, shiva sampradaya are fabrications of Gaudiyas. Sri Ramanuja has learnt from Bhagavan and we have got our own disciple succession which is untainted by Gaudiyas. Thank God for that!

 

 

Because he can't stand the idea of Love of God being offered to someone who was not born in a strict Brahmin caste family. The ritual confers the inclination and ability to know and love the Supreme Being, for all others are out of Luck.

Where did I mention caste here! A troll like me does not have a caste. Similarly even-toed ungulates should be put in place where they belong.

[Beggar]

Is Justin a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

[kaisersose]

 

Is Justin a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

 

Obviously he must be the latter as he holds a view that is hostile to your view.

 

In spite of countless disparaging, condescending, arrogant, ad-hominem assertions by his distinguished colleagues, has anyone heard Beggar ever ask either of the below?

 

- Is Theist a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

- Is Shiva a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

- Is Andy108 a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

 

I bet, no one has and here is the single reason. To qualify as someone who "derives pleasure by insulting others" the necessary prerequisite is, the person should espouse views different from Beggar's own.

 

Cheers

[Justin]

 

Is Justin a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

Justin is a seeker of the truth. Therefore he does not hesitate to say a unicorn does not exist. If you call that insulting maybe you need to investigate your inner motive and find out if you really are a sincere seeker of the truth. Don't you have a swamin's guidance that you should not prevent another vaishnava from doing his duty? Aren't you using hypocrisy and putting silly questions to others demonstrating that you are holier-than-thou? Please ask these penetrating questions to yourself and see if you are sincere in the first place before you speak against others.

[Kyros]

I was a follower of Sri Vaishnavism until I read Prabhupada's books.

 

Now I'm a follower of Gaudiya Vaishnava. Why?

 

Because Krishna has blessed them to spread their influence far and wide, and the Maha-Mantra works!

 

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna

Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

Unfortunately you have to be aparadha free to taste the nectar.

 

Haribol