Krishna unavailable to non-Brahmanas?

[kaisersose]

 

That's exactly my point! Vaisnavas (yes, here and then I speak of the gaudiyas) can't care less for the title. Traditionally they do not even call diksa 'brahminical initiation'. Even nowadays this terms is used only in ISKCON, as far as I know. It's 'vaisnava diksa'. That's it. On the other hand, I don't think the use of 'brahminical initiation' is wrong. Well, it might present some danger to some people's position. But if we agree that brahim means some wonderful qualities, then what's the danger?

 

These wonderful qualities are no more a characaterestic of a Brahmana than they are of a Vaishnava. A Shudra Vaishnava should be able to develop the same qualities or may already have them.

 

 

Why? Danger to who? Where would it come from? And what exactly do you mean by conversion process?

 

Danger to the the individual. On one hand you admit that the Vaishnava position is not binding to a specific Varna. And then on the other hand, you believe initiating into the Brahmana varna is like a "promotion" whch is a contradiction. To me someone who intends to be a Vaishnava and then also at the same time is trying to become a Brahmana or believes that the Brahmana is better than people of other varnas in attaining Krishna is a confused individual.

 

Seeing Varna as a qualification to be a Vaishnava is incorrect and ironically the only people who are supporting the concept are those who claim to be against it! The danger is the distraction caused by such a notion. And by conversion, I mean a person of one varna moving into a new one through an initiation rite.

 

Cheers

[kaisersose]

 

Here are some quotes from Brahma-sutra Bhashaya of Sankara and SriBhashya of Ramanuja.

 

"The Sudras are not qualified for that reason also that Gautama having ascertained Jabala not to be a Sudra from his speaking the truth, proceeded to initiate and instruct him. 'None who is not a Brahmana would thus speak out. Go and fetch fuel, friend, I shall initiate you. You have not swerved from truth.' (Ch up 4.4.5) Sankara Bhashya (1:3:37)

 

"From those Sudras, however, who like Vidura and 'the religious hunter' acquire knowledge in consequence of the after effects of former deeds, the fruit of their knowledge cannot be witheld, since knowledge in all cases brings about its fruit." (Sankara 1.3.38)

 

"Owing to the effect of former actions, which ahd not yet worked themselves out, they were born in a low caste, while at the same time they possessed wisdom owing to the fact that the knowledge acquired by then in former births had not yet quite vanished." (Ramanuja 1.3.33)

 

"Even a person who because he does not belong to an ashrama stands between as it were, is qualified for knowledge. 'For that is seen'. For we meet wth scriptural passages declaring that persons of that class such as Raikva and the daughter of Vachanu--possessed the knowledge of Brahman (ch 4.1, Bri 3.6.8)"(Sankara3.4.36)

 

"Smriti also declares that men not belonging to an ashrama grow in knowledge through prayer and the like. 'Through prayer (japa) also a Brahmana may become perfect May he perform other works or not, who befriends all creatures is called a Brahmana (Manu Smriti 2.17)' " (Ramanuja 3.4.37)<!--QuoteEnd-->

 

Nothing here says varna is not decided by birth and I am unclear on Kulpavana's position on the matter anyway, though to his credit his posts appear far more level-headed than most people here.

 

Parashurama's anger at Karna on the bee incident. Let us hear the opponents out on this one.

 

Cheers

[andy108]

 

Nothing here says varna is not decided by birth and I am unclear on Kulpavana's position on the matter anyway, though to his credit his posts appear far more level-headed than most people here.

 

Parashurama's anger at Karna on the bee incident. Let us hear the opponents out on this one.

 

Cheers

 

You have got to be kidding. These quotes implicitly imply exactly that.

 

Look there are 2 varnas for each person. The varna their birth parents are acting within (by behavioral quality hopefully), and the varna they are naturally inclined to according to wisdom they may have gained in past births.

 

If they EVER do not match up, which is PROVEN time and time again to be an exceptional but real occurance, those who repeat the mantra "Varna By Birth Only", sound like blithering idiots.

 

Is that what you want? To blither like an idiot every day on this forum, despite herculean efforts of others to explain to you from a multitude of angular examples and quote after quote from scripture which plainly explains it? Do you even recognize that all these continued attempts to answer your questions, even amidst the frustrated jabs and ad-hominem attacks due to your stubborness, display the brahminical quality of Tolerance that has been extended toward you from people who were born into a non-varnasrama culture?

[AncientMariner]

 

"Smriti also declares that men not belonging to an ashrama grow in knowledge through prayer and the like. 'Through prayer (japa) also a Brahmana may become perfect May he perform other works or not, who befriends all creatures is called a Brahmana (Manu Smriti 2.17)' " (Ramanuja 3.4.37)

 

 

This brings to my mind an old debate that Guruvani would have where he would say the Hare Krishna mantra is not a prayer and that Hare Krishnas do not pray or something like that.

[kaisersose]

 

You have got to be kidding. These quotes implicitly imply exactly that.

 

Look there are 2 varnas for each person. The varna their birth parents are acting within (by behavioral quality hopefully), and the varna they are naturally inclined to according to wisdom they may have gained in past births.

 

If they EVER do not match up, which is PROVEN time and time again to be an exceptional but real occurance, those who repeat the mantra "Varna By Birth Only", sound like blithering idiots.

 

Is that what you want? To blither like an idiot every day on this forum, despite herculean efforts of others to explain to you from a multitude of angular examples and quote after quote from scripture which plainly explains it? Do you even recognize that all these continued attempts to answer your questions, even amidst the frustrated jabs and ad-hominem attacks due to your stubborness, display the brahminical quality of Tolerance that has been extended toward you from people who were born into a non-varnasrama culture?

 

And the Prashurama incident was completely avoided.

 

The problem here is you have mixed up unnecessary distractions into your goal of Krishna. Your critical requirement of recognition of as Brahmana is a distraction and is flawed for a number of reasons - including chiefly the inability of any individual to make such identifications.

 

Consequently, you are mutilating age-old traditions (however bad they may be in your vision) and trying to realign them with your needs - all for no purpose as they are completely unnecessary for someone whose only goal is Krishna.

 

We have reached a point where we will only be repeating what we already posted countless times. Since the Karna incident was not raised earlier, I added it for completeness.

 

Have fun andy,

Cheers

[andy108]

The problem here is you have mixed up unnecessary distractions into your goal of Krishna. Your critical requirement of recognition of as Brahmana is a distraction.

 

Here he goes again. Nowhere on any of the threads of the last week have I claimed recognition as a Brahmana a requirement towards the "goal of Krsna".

 

(Set to merry-go-round instrumentals)

Round and Round she goes, where she'll stop nobody knows.

 

Have fun beating up your straw men Herr Fuhrer. They are the only ones you can defeat. This time I am finished with the only actual thing that can distract me from my goal of serving Krsna. "Discussing" with YOU.

[Kulapavana]

 

Nothing here says varna is not decided by birth and I am unclear on Kulpavana's position on the matter anyway, though to his credit his posts appear far more level-headed than most people here.

 

Prabhu, I see Krsna's proclamation on 4 varnas in the Gita (4.13) as final:

 

 

 

catur-varnyam maya srstam

guna-karma-vibhagasah

tasya kartaram api mam

viddhy akartaram avyayam

According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.

 

 

 

Since janma (birth is not mentioned) I take it as merely an optional criterion. There are other shastric verses that place it in a similar fashion.

 

Is janma irrelevant? No, of course not, as people are born in particular families for a good reason, but it is subservient to the guna and karma as the final criteria... that is the way I see it.

 

And can we say that all people born in the western families are actually just sudras? I was born in a family which I would describe as mixed 'kshatriya' and 'brahmana' - soldiers and intellectuals. I would never say that my family roots are sudra by guna and karma.

 

The part of Iskcon philosophy I strongly disagree with is that you can make brahmana out of anybody, by giving them training or engaging in devotional service. That is patently false, as our practical experience in the last 40 years shows.

 

 

 

 

[AncientMariner]

The only thing is my understanding is that the soldier class is supposed to defend the brahmanas and the brahmanas are the protectors of the cows and there is virtually no class of people that protect cows so there is basically no brahmanas in the Kali-yuga. So the intellectuals and soldiers are mostly sudras too unless they are involved in cow protection.

[kaisersose]

 

The only thing is my understanding is that the soldier class is supposed to defend the brahmanas and the brahmanas are the protectors of the cows and there is virtually no class of people that protect cows so there is basically no brahmanas in the Kali-yuga. So the intellectuals and soldiers are mostly sudras too unless they are involved in cow protection.

 

There were Brahmanas who went through life in abject poverty never owning a single cow and there have been countless non-Brahmanas owning cows.

 

I would say it is the responsibility of the owner to protect his/her own cows and it not a general Brahmana responsibility.

 

Cheers

[kaisersose]

 

The part of Iskcon philosophy I strongly disagree with is that you can make brahmana out of anybody, by giving them training or engaging in devotional service. That is patently false, as our practical experience in the last 40 years shows.

 

 

Yes. This is the point I am alluding too. The root cause is the idea that somehow we can identify a varna by external observation. This may work in some cases, but is definitely going to fail in several cases which leads to the inevitable conclusion that this is not the way to go.

 

I can never assign varnas to an individual based on my obervation of the individual, no matter how hard or how long I observe him. People exhibit different characterestics & behaviors in different circumstances and times. I was a bully in college with a like-minded gang, harassing professors, girls and pretty much everyone with trips to the police-station, purely due to the prevailing environment. I wasn't like that either before or after. If a set of people who know me have to classify my varna based on observation, you will get all 4 possible types. Tying Varna to behavior is an impossible science.

 

But the more imporant point is none of this matters in this context. Let us take a Hare Krishna Vashnava from the west , who was not born in India and is hence "varna-free". As a Vaishnava, is it necessary for him/her to become a Brahmana? If yes, what is the benefit?

 

Does Iskcon as an organization (officially or unofficially) differentiate Vaishnavas initiated as Brahmanas from other Vaishnavas? I am trying to understand the importance of the label within.

 

Thanks

[AncientMariner]

 

There were Brahmanas who went through life in abject poverty never owning a single cow and there have been countless non-Brahmanas owning cows.

 

I would say it is the responsibility of the owner to protect his/her own cows and it not a general Brahmana responsibility.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

I was under the understanding that the brahmanas are the priests who teach the people brahmanical culture of cow protection. The intellectual class of the world right now are mostly working in computer science, politics, or medicine and eating at McDonald's during thier lunch break and going home and watching 24 or CSI at night. Brahmanical culture does not seem to be a big priority of the intellectual class as near as I can tell but I could be wrong.

[Kyros]

Your ashrama isn't static; it's dynamic.

 

Visvamitra had qualities of a kshatriya and raised as a kshatriya, but in due time he became a brahmana without having to go through rebirth.

[kaisersose]

 

I was under the understanding that the brahmanas are the priests who teach the people brahmanical culture of cow protection. The intellectual class of the world right now are mostly working in computer science, politics, or medicine and eating at McDonald's during thier lunch break. Brahmanical culture does not seem to be a big priority of the intellectual class as near as I can tell but I could be wrong.

 

If we want to map the Varna system to the real world, then I agree. We are living in different times and in a different culture where many of the cultural concepts that come associated with religion are no longer relevant. The Amish are a good example.

 

Before the industrial revolution and the corporate culture, people typically followed a profession through ancestry. The father would teach his craft to his son and the son would continue the tradition. Most of the cultural aspects in religion are contingent upon such a tradition.

 

Professions based on varna system can only make sense in a very simple, primitive model - like we can still see in some tiny villages around the world. We cannot really go back to that model anymore, as man has voluntarily moved into a more complex model through the centuries. It is not necessary to take that step back either.

 

Cow protection is a problem only for people who believe the cow should not be slaughtered. This group has always been a minority through known history - even during primitive times when the social model was very similar to the varna system. I do not see how that can change in the foreseeable future. Meat-eating seems to be driven by some compulsive, internal need and as long as that need exists, animals will continue to be slaughtered.

 

All I can do is be happy that several animals have lived longer lives because I have not gobbled them up.

 

Cheers

[AncientMariner]

 

If we want to map the Varna system to the real world, then I agree. We are living in different times and in a different culture where many of the cultural concepts that come associated with religion are no longer relevant. The Amish are a good example.

 

Before the industrial revolution and the corporate culture, people typically followed a profession through ancestry. The father would teach his craft to his son and the son would continue the tradition. Most of the cultural aspects in religion are contingent upon such a tradition.

 

Professions based on varna system can only make sense in a very simple, primitive model - like we can still see in some tiny villages around the world. We cannot really go back to that model anymore, as man has voluntarily moved into a more complex model through the centuries. It is not necessary to take that step back either.

 

Cow protection is a problem only for people who believe the cow should not be slaughtered. This group has always been a minority through known history - even during primitive times when the social model was very similar to the varna system. I do not see how that can change in the foreseeable future. Meat-eating seems to be driven by some compulsive, internal need and as long as that need exists, animals will continue to be slaughtered.

 

All I can do is be happy that several animals have lived longer lives because I have not gobbled them up.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Yeah it probably will not change much because the Kali-yuga is going to get worse and worse if Srimad Bhagavatam is true. People will go further and further from brahmanical culture until at the end of the Kali-yuga people will be so degraded it will be almost unbelievable.

[andy108]

 

I was under the understanding that the brahmanas are the priests who teach the people brahmanical culture of cow protection. The intellectual class of the world right now are mostly working in computer science, politics, or medicine and eating at McDonald's during thier lunch break. Brahmanical culture does not seem to be a big priority of the intellectual class as near as I can tell but I could be wrong.

This is an important point Ancient, which I touched on earlier.

 

Srila Prabhupada says the following about the western intellectuals who he came to save.

 

 

Bg 14.6 : PURPORT

 

The difficulty here is that when a living entity is situated in the mode of goodness, he becomes conditioned to feel that he is advanced in knowledge and is better than others. In this way he becomes conditioned. The best examples are the scientist and philosopher: each is very proud of his knowledge, and because they generally improve their living conditions, they feel a sort of material happiness. This sense of advanced happiness in conditioned life makes them bound by the mode of goodness of material nature. As such, they are attracted toward working in the mode of goodness, and, as long as they have an attraction for working in that way, they have to take some type of body in the modes of nature. Thus there is no likelihood of liberation, or of being transferred to the spiritual world.

 

BG 14:9

 

A person in the mode of goodness is satisfied by his work or intellectual pursuit, just as a philosopher, scientist, or educator may be engaged in a particular field of knowledge and may be satisfied in that way.

You see, there is no brahminical culture, but they are brahmanas in potential. They are generally in search of truth by some methodology, but may not always be honest in their dealings, and as far as the other qualities of a brahmana they are to be cultivated by keeping company with the embodiment of that culture, the Acarya.

 

BG 18:42

 

TEXT

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

 

TRANSLATION

Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness-these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work.

 

SB 1.16.31 : PURPORT :In the age of Kali, the first attack of the venomous snake strikes against the God-made varṇāśrama-dharma, and thus a person properly qualified as a brāhmaṇa is called a śūdra, and a śūdra by qualification is passing as a brāhmaṇa, all on a false birthright claim. To become a brāhmaṇa by a birthright claim is not at all bona fide, although it may be a fulfillment of one of the conditions. But the real qualification of a brāhmaṇa is to control the mind and the senses, and to cultivate tolerance, simplicity, cleanliness, knowledge, truthfulness, devotion and faith in the Vedic wisdom. In the present age, consideration of the necessary qualification is being neglected, and the false birthright claim is being supported even by a popular, sophisticated poet, the author of Rāma-carita-mānasa.

 

 

sb 1.17.24 But to surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is also not very easy. Such surrender is possible by persons of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. These four principles of advanced civilization were remarkable features in the age of Satya. In that age, every human being was practically a qualified brāhmaṇa of the highest order, and in the social orders of life they were all paramahaṁsas, or the topmost in the renounced order. By cultural standing, the human beings were not at all subjected to the deluding energy. Such strong men of character were competent enough to get away from the clutches of māyā. But gradually, as the basic principles of brahminical culture, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, became curtailed by proportionate development of pride, attachment for women and intoxication, the path of salvation or the path of transcendental bliss retreated far, far away from human society. With the progression of the age of Kali, people are becoming very proud, and attached to women and intoxication. By the influence of the age of Kali, even a pauper is proud of his penny, the women are always dressed in an overly attractive fashion to victimize the minds of men, and the man is addicted to drinking wine, smoking, drinking tea and chewing tobacco, etc. All these habits, or so-called advancement of civilization, are the root causes of all irreligiosities, and therefore it is not possible to check corruption, bribery and nepotism. Man cannot check all these evils simply by statutory acts and police vigilance, but he can cure the disease of the mind by the proper medicine, namely advocating the principles of brahminical culture or the principles of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness.

 

Srila Prabhupada said that when the head of society is on straight, the rest would follow. He approached all of the intellectual impersonalists, voidists and even non-transcendentalists (demons) and gave them the opportunity to receive Vaisnava brahminical culture.

 

It was a 2 pronged approach. Give some concept of Krsna and his Holy Names, start everyone on a gradual path of accepting cultural purification.

[rahalkar]

 

Someone please enlighten me.

 

Why are the Hare Krishnas obsessing about the varna-system? Why is it important for them to become Brahmanas?

 

I fail to get it. Since the Hare Krishna's goal is Krishna, why this deep-seeded need to become a Brahmana? I don't see the link.

 

It looks like they believe only Brahmanas are eligible for Krishna, which I find to be a very weird position for an international organization, not to mention lack of scriptural support for such a position.

 

Cheers

 

Hare Krishna everybody,

 

What is Varna System according to scripture? In BG 4.11, Lord Himself says that Lord Himself has created four varnas according Guna-Karma. Therefore, We must understand that Varna is by Guna-Karma and not by Janma. Sometimes people mistakenly equate Varna system to caste system. The caste system is perverted implementation of the Varna system. Because Varna is according to one's qualities or wanting to develop certain qualities, anyone can develop those qualities. It is irrespective of where one has taken birth.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave nice example in this regard, which you all may already have known - son of a high-court justice is not automatically a high court justice. The son will have to go to Law college and develop the required qualifications. Also not just son of the high court justice, but "anyone" who has the inclination for that type of work, can go to Law college etc. and get qualified. Similarly anyone regardless of which caste they are born in, can develop the qualities of Brahmana, Kshatriya etc.

 

The Scriptures say "Kalau Sudra Sambhavat" meaning in Kali-Yuga everybody is "born" sudra.

 

Janmanat Yayate Sudrah, Samskarat Bhaved Dvijah - meaning by birth everyone is Sudra, but by Samskara or by training one becomes Dvijah (Brahman).

 

(Again Sudra is not by birth, but by behaviorial habits)

 

What is that "Samskara" which transforms Sudra into Brahmana? It is not some Karma Kanda ceremony but by Bhagvat vidhi of which chanting the Holy Names with sincerity

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare Hare|

Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare||

is the foremost.

 

In ISKCON, we have two levels of initiations - first - Hari Naam initiation and second Brahman initiation. First initiation is good, but when one becomes more and more steady in all aspects of Navadha Bhakti, more steady in Suchi (internal and external), more fixed in one's own Sadhana and if one desires to do Deity worship, then he/she may take 2nd initiation. This is according to Pancha Ratra book by Sri Narada Muni. Also in 2nd initiation, one gets Gayatri mantra.

 

To be eligible for Krishna is not the matter of externals but purification of the heart. As one becomes more and more steady in one's spiritual practice, he/she will want to do more and more for the Lord and awakening of desire for Deity worship wherein you can touch, bathe, dress the Deities is natural progression for some. For this reason, devotees in ISKCON take 2nd/Brahman initiation.

 

Hare Krishna!

[Kulapavana]

 

Let us take a Hare Krishna Vashnava from the west , who was not born in India and is hence "varna-free". As a Vaishnava, is it necessary for him/her to become a Brahmana? If yes, what is the benefit?

 

Does Iskcon as an organization (officially or unofficially) differentiate Vaishnavas initiated as Brahmanas from other Vaishnavas? I am trying to understand the importance of the label within.

 

There is no pressure on anybody to 'become a brahmana' anymore. Gradually devotees realized that only very rare people have what it takes to truly be a brahmana.

 

Importance of the label? No... it is more like like a hope that we will develop many brahmanas among Iskcon devotees.

 

Yes, to some extent varna can be dynamic. I see it in myself. With time and gradual purification I see myself moving very slowly towards the brahmana spectrum in my brahmana/kshatriya mix, but this is not my goal or my desire - it is more like just a byproduct of my Vaishnava practices.

[Beggar]

 

... Also in 2nd initiation, one gets Gayatri mantra.

 

To be eligible for Krishna is not the matter of externals but purification of the heart. As one becomes more and more steady in one's spiritual practice, he/she will want to do more and more for the Lord and awakening of desire for Deity worship wherein you can touch, bathe, dress the Deities is natural progression for some. For this reason, devotees in ISKCON take 2nd/Brahman initiation.

 

Hare Krishna!

 

Narayana Maharaja:

 

Kama-gayatri and gopal-mantra are transcendental, and they give a relationship with Krsna. Kama Gayatri was previously brahma-gayatri. Then the personified Upanisads heard the glory of rasa-lila and the gopis' mood, and they developed a very thick greed to attain that. Thus, by the grace of Yogamaya, this brahma-gayatri became kama-gayatri.

[theist]

 

To be eligible for Krishna is not thematter of externals but purification of the heart. As one becomes moreand more steady in one's spiritual practice, he/she will want to domore and more for the Lord and awakening of desire for Deity worshipwherein you can touch, bathe, dress the Deities is natural progressionfor some. For this reason, devotees in ISKCON take 2nd/Brahmaninitiation.(underlining was mine)

 

 

 

I think this is a very nice understanding.

[Beggar]

I didn't make this up:

Narayana Maharaja:

 

Kama-gayatri and gopal-mantra are transcendental, and they give a relationship with Krsna. Kama Gayatri was previously brahma-gayatri. Then the personified Upanisads heard the glory of rasa-lila and the gopis' mood, and they developed a very thick greed to attain that. Thus, by the grace of Yogamaya, this brahma-gayatri became kama-gayatri.

Even from the university professor viewpoint, this is the theology of Caitanya Saraswat Vaisnvaism. The babajis believe that one gets siddha pranali at initiation and then learns of their siddha svarupa. Srila Saraswati Thakur taught that by the combination of Mahamantra, kama-gayatri and gopal-mantra, siddha svarupa will come naturally as the prasada of this process for those who are surrendered, saranagatah. This is the meaning of what Srila Prabhupada gave when he initiated one (gave diksa) into these mantras. The concept of becoming brahmana and therefore becoming qualified to do arcana was also explained by Srila Prabhupada, but there is a much deeper meaning to the diksa mantras and eventually the sanyassa mantra. We need to learn of these things in order to give the proper regard even if we are incapable of carrying out the order to chant these mantras purely or even at all. Otherwise we will become lost in all these external concepts like the topic this thread proposes.

[theist]

Maybe. But I'll just first try to get established in self-realization and santa rasa.

[Beggar]

 

Maybe. But I'll just first try to get established in self-realization and santa rasa.

 

Just like $100 contains $10, madurya contains santa. It doesn't mean that in an immature stage that the practitioner focuses on madhurya rasa, it means that one can understand that it is in the background. So the kama-gayatri and gopa-mantras are chanted in a reverential mood with the understanding that madhurya is far above our head. But we can understand that our acaryas are connected with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Rupa Goswami and this is what they came to give. It's like when a girl is a child and comes to the point of understanding that when she grows up the potential is there for her to get married and have children. Of course this analogy can be taken the wrong way, but I think some might get the point.

[theist]

 

It doesn't mean that in an immaturestage that the practitioner focuses on madhurya rasa, it means that onecan understand that it is in the background.

 

Yes there are many things in the backgroud even when chanting the Hare Krishna mantra. The adventure of discovery is just starting for most of us.

[Kali_Upasaka]

An answer to this question has been given in the Gosai web site

 

gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/Brahmana-Vaisnava.html

 

I am posting only because we should not let the caste issue, which is a political issue in India now, to cloud our spiritual pursuit.

[rahalkar]

Hare Krishna,

 

Thank you for posing this invaluable document from gosai.com website.

 

You are very correct - we should not let ugly caste system sabotage the spiritual pursuit of anyone who is interested. It is duty and privilege of every living entity to worship his/her creator and anyone who desires to worship the Supreme Lord must be given opportunity. The artificial barriers created by caste system, which has no scriptural basis, must be removed.

 

Thank you once again.

 

Hare Krishna!