More from Gurukrpa/Then More from Satsvarupa

[Beggar]

More from Gurukrpa BY: BHAKTA DASA

Feb 10, INDIA (SUN) — Question: The other day you answered some questions. We have received about 50 responses. People want to know more. Do you have any more to say?

Answer: Srila Prabhupada ordered me to take sannyasa when I was 22 years old. And I objected, but I did it. Then he ordered me to be a GBC when there was only eleven. I was made the twelfth GBC. I never had any interest in this type of management. I only believed that we should surrender ourselves, and chant, dance, hear Srimad Bhagavatam and Gita, and KRSNA will do the rest. Srila Prabhupada told me, "Just surrender to KRSNA and you will never be the loser." I once asked him what is the most important verse in the shastra and he said:

• yasya deve para bhaktir
  yatha deve tatha gurau
  Tasyaite kathita hy arthau
  prakacante mahatmanau "Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." [CU 6.23]

He also said, "Yasya prasadad bhagavat prasado yasya prasadana gatih kutopi"... This is a descending process. It comes to you when KRSNA is pleased by sincere service. It is ever expanding, and nothing can check it. You cannot force your way through the eight elements to the spiritual world. "ye TU sarvani karmani". But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Prtha-for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. Bhagavad-gita 12.6-7 This is the qualification. When KRSNA is pleased with you, HE reveals Himself.

KRSNA said first, "I am talking to you, because you are not ENVIOUS of ME", and second because you have all these qualities. "One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me-such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me."

Do the GBC leaders have these qualities? They have taken the position as our leaders. We are fallen. They must have more qualities than we have. The do not invite their Godbrothers to participate. And they come to Vrindaban and hide up in Goverdhan with their little programs. I have heard some of them say, "All year we have people talking to us, and now we need a break." I never heard Srila Prabhupada say this.

One time the very sweet Gurudas Prabhu told Srila Prabhupada, "Sometimes I feel compassionate for the conditioned souls." Srila Prabhupada answered, "Why not all the time?"

Stop bluffing. You talk the talk. Why not walk the walk? Why not come and offer us some service and see who will take it up?

One time in Hawaii, 1975, Srila Prabhupada flew to the Big Island, just me and him alone looking for Goursundar dasa. And when we found him, Srila Prabhupada sat there and said, "What offense I have done that you have left? Please forgive me. It must have been me." Tears were rolling out of Srila Prabhupada's eyes.

Another time when Madhuvisa Prabhu left, I was in New Zealand with Srila Prabhupada. At 3 AM we were talking. He told me, "Do not tell anyone he has left. Keep it in the family." Again he cried. Srila Prabhupada loved his devotees. How unhappy he is to see Maya reclaim them!

These people can care less. They could care less where any of their Godbrothers are or where they are going, but they take the title of Governing Body Commissioner. They will all have to become dogs and pigs in their next life for this offense, in my opinion.

Now, no one knows who are the HARE KRISHNAS!

The other night, fifty devotees went out in the streets of Kao San Road in Bangkok, packed with thousands of international travelers. Dozens came up and asked, "Who are you? What are you doing?" No one knows us anymore!

Always at Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet,

Gurukrpa

 

 

 

ISKCON Guru Gives Nonsense Instructions

BY: KIWI SPIRIT

 

Feb 10, NEW ZEALAND (SUN) —

The following is taken from Satsvarupa’s web journal entitled,

Tachycardia

. Satsvarupa tells us that this journal writing has now become his main service:

 

“I am telling devotees my main service nowadays is to write this journal. It is my preaching to share my prayers to you and report on my japa and other thoughts. It is my little contribution to Prabhupada's Krsna consciousness movement.”

 

Satsvarupa is famous for his writings, such as his book,

Japa Reform Notebook

. Here are some of Satsvarupa’s latest strategies for good healthy japa. He writes:

 

• “Strategies for staying awake while chanting japa in the morning:
  1. Get up at 4:00 A.M. and read Matthew Arnold’s Dover Beach (if you can find it) and then begin chanting.
  
  
  2. If you cannot find Arnold, then read William Blake’s entire Songs of Innocence and then begin chanting.
  
  
  3. Get up at 4:00 A.M. and look for the poems of Zimmerman on your bookshelf. If you cannot find them, go back and take a nap.
  
  
  4. Get up at 4:00 A.M., take your shower and begin chanting. If you get tired, go take a nap and try to get up within an hour for more chanting.
  
  
  5. Get up at 4:00 A.M. and begin chanting (on clicker) at 000 and don’t stop until you’ve reached 432 (four rounds). Try to make at least four rounds before 7:30. Better make it eight rounds.”

Satsvarupa also gives instructions on how to avoid

prajalpa

(frivolous talk) during lunch. He writes:

• "Dhanurdhara Swami and I read from a book,
  Roadblocks in the Path of Bhakti
  , by Prabhupada Sri Sri 108 Tinkodi Goswami Maharaja’s most fallen servant, Sri Binod Bihari dasa. We read that one should talk only about God. This made me think that Nitai-Gauranga and Dattatreya often speak
  prajalpa
  (frivolous talk) during lunch. After our reading, I called our two men together and told them what we had read and said that we should only talk about God. Today particularly the talk was foolish, all about martial arts movies. I said the talk was not good for their Krishna consciousness and was also an insult to me, because I just sat at the table and was ignored... We considered eating in complete silence, but decided that we would play lecture tapes by Professor Dreyfus, of the University of California, and other professors on spiritual/intellectual topics, like Kierkegaard, existentialism, Greek civilization, Moby Dick, etc. etc.”

 

 

 

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[theist]

It's a sad thing indeed.

[Kyros]

It's not just the Tachycardia, it's his other journals as well.

 

Satsvarupa das needs to renounce his gosvami status, and tell his disciples to find another siksa guru.

 

Then what he needs to do is just spend the rest of his life chanting Hare Krsna and bhajans. It's the only way for him to get out of his infamy.

[Beggar]

 

It's not just the Tachycardia, it's his other journals as well.

 

Satsvarupa das needs to renounce his gosvami status, and tell his disciples to find another siksa guru.

 

Then what he needs to do is just spend the rest of his life chanting Hare Krsna and bhajans. It's the only way for him to get out of his infamy.

 

Sats is surrounded by sycophants. He could read The Playboy Adviser before japa and the yes men would tell him that its the right thing to do. He had siksa gurus in Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja and he was forced by the GBC to renounce them in the 80's and 90's respectively. And I really believe that he was forced to be a Zonal by the GBC of the time. The whole thing drove him crazy and there are persons who will have to answer for what they have done. On the other hand there are many who want a watered down version of Iskcon, and now they are getting what they desire.

[thehat]

This is also from satsvarupa's diary;

 

 

March 30, 6:30 A.M.

Carrying the body around, piss it, clean it, dress it, struggle to put the wristwatch on, the stockings over cracked toenails, huffing and puffing with a fast-beating heart. Waking the deities, take them out of their beds, wash your eyeglasses—is it time for japa ? Where is your dissatisfied mind going?

 

 

At least he's being honest.. Who else feels like this?

I do sometimes. But isn't this Satsvarupa suppose to be a guru or something? Someone who's suppose to enlighten devotees in their service?

[Beggar]

 

This is also from satsvarupa's diary;

 

 

March 30, 6:30 A.M.

Carrying the body around, piss it, clean it, dress it, struggle to put the wristwatch on, the stockings over cracked toenails, huffing and puffing with a fast-beating heart. Waking the deities, take them out of their beds, wash your eyeglasses—is it time for japa ? Where is your dissatisfied mind going?

 

 

At least he's being honest.. Who else feels like this?

I do sometimes. But isn't this Satsvarupa suppose to be a guru or something? Someone who's suppose to enlighten devotees in their service?

 

Yes, he's honest on some levels but of course not on all levels. A guru or acarya has to carry themselves in a way that will set an example of devotional service at the standard of his guru. When we think that such a thing is impossible then we settle for less as both the teacher and the student. Then the whole process degrades into imitationism ( or never is lifted out of the imitation level) and we are left with institutionalized, 'taking it cheaply-ism'. If one can't come up to the real standard then don't allow oneself to be advertised as a bonafide guru, don't accept worship for one will go down at very rapid rate. Sometimes you can see the plunge other times the pretenders can disguise it. Its not only sad but its sickening, especially considering that he was so dear to Srila Prabhupada, and the whole crazy thing goes on decade after decade.

[Kulapavana]

I would like to hear Gurukripa's recollections of Lalita Prasada. I have read Subal's story but it needs some corroboration.

 

As to Satsvarupa's diary... not to defend him, just a side comment... - most Iskcon devotees have such a fantastic image of a 'real guru' that they are unable to benefit from sincere accounts of the human side of ANY Vaishnava... it has to be a Marvel grade superhero description only...

[AncientMariner]

 

I would like to hear Gurukripa's recollections of Lalita Prasada. I have read Subal's story but it needs some corroboration.

 

As to Satsvarupa's diary... not to defend him, just a side comment... - most Iskcon devotees have such a fantastic image of a 'real guru' that they are unable to benefit from sincere accounts of the human side of ANY Vaishnava... it has to be a Marvel grade superhero description only...

 

 

 

That does seem to me to be a fair point but when I read Srimad Bhagavatam it is sometimes sorting of like reading a superpowered superhero comic book. Granted it has a potency, subtlety and historical relevancy not found in any mundane comic book.

[Sonic Yogi]

The Krip says he doesn't think Prabhupada wanted any ritvik system to succeed him.

 

I am not so sure.

 

How many times did Prabhupada tell his senior men "don't change ANYTHING after I am gone"?

 

What part of "don't change anything" is up for change?

 

Obviously, stopping the ritvik system was a major change in ISKCON.

 

No devotee should have to suffer through a fallen guru.

 

That should never happen in the Gaudiya sampradaya.

 

To much is made of the formalities of intiation.

 

But, I ain't gonna start arguing ritvik with anyone.

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years.

[AncientMariner]

 

The Krip says he doesn't think Prabhupada wanted any ritvik system to succeed him.

 

I am not so sure.

 

How many times did Prabhupada tell his senior men "don't change ANYTHING after I am gone"?

 

What part of "don't change anything" is up for change?

 

Obviously, stopping the ritvik system was a major change in ISKCON.

 

No devotee should have to suffer through a fallen guru.

 

That should never happen in the Gaudiya sampradaya.

 

To much is made of the formalities of intiation.

 

But, I ain't gonna start arguing ritvik with anyone.

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years.

 

 

It was a noble good faith effort by Prabhupada. It is too bad that the Kali-yuga is so harsh and all the good things end up becoming pathetic. I have read enough scary things about Iskcon that I have always stayed away. I can take being screwed over by the material world but I wouldn't be able to stand the emotional impact of being screwed over by a spiritual organization so I have never taken the risk. Had the Mormons mess with me some when I was in high school and that wasn't pleasant.

[Beggar]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years

I'm just sittin here in the swamp

dealing with ordinary life and fears

 

I just worry about the next video and keeping away from them beers

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years...

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years

I'm just sittin here in the swamp

dealing with ordinary life and fears

 

I just worry about the next video and keeping away from them beers

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years...

 

 

Gotta admit, that is funny.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years

I'm just sittin here in the swamp

dealing with ordinary life and fears

 

I just worry about the next video and keeping away from them queers.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years...

 

That would all be good and well, but the problem is that ISKCON will be just a page in the bankruptcy records within the next 10 years.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years

I'm just sittin here in the swamp

dealing with ordinary life and fears

 

I just worry about the next video and keeping away from them beers

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years...

 

I hope mocking me isn't going to become your latest obsession.

Surely you can come up with something more original than that?

 

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Satsvarupa I can confidently say is not a vaishnava nor a brahmana.

 

 

Then you just exposed that you are neither a Vaishnava or a brahmana.

 

 

When you grow up to become an adult you might understand.

[Kyros]

okay

[kaisersose]

Kyros says,

 

Satsvarupa I can confidently say is not a vaishnava nor a brahmana.

and SY responds,

 

Then you just exposed that you are neither a Vaishnava or a brahmana.

 

See why one cannot identify Varna by observation?

 

Cheers

[Beggar]

 

See why one cannot identify Varna by observation?

 

Cheers

 

 

I guess he's right, we couldn't find those Kaiser-Krauts anywhere.

 

 

[AncientMariner]

 

I hope mocking me isn't going to become your latest obsession.

Surely you can come up with something more original than that?

 

 

 

It is a good little tune but I can understand your fears about becoming Beggars latest obsession. It wouldn't be pleasant to be on the recieving end of that mockery.

[Kyros]

 

Kyros says,

 

 

and SY responds,

 

 

See why one cannot identify Varna by observation?

 

Cheers

 

It's better than the caste by birth concept which put India in such a pathetic state that allowed it to be taken over by the British and other foreignors.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

It is a good little tune but I can understand your fears about becoming Beggars latest obsession. It wouldn't be pleasant to be on the recieving end of that mockery.

 

Well, I like Beggar a lot.

He is a really sweet soul.

We do have some acquaintance.

 

Maybe I mentioned "ritvik" somewhere and his BVDs got in a bunch.

 

I don't now.

 

I truly love the guy.

 

But, I guess I just worked too hard today to come home to mockery on the forum.

 

He was joking with me. All is good.

 

But, with what little energy I have left after a long day at work I wanted to relax with some forum chat and then my buddy Beggar mocks me.

 

I was just a little hurt and not really up to all the fun and games.

 

I don't have a lovely supportive wife like he does.

 

I have had to raise three kids by myself and I am not really all the fun and games that I sometimes appear to be on the forums.

 

love ya' Beggar....

 

You are one of my favorite peeps.....

[kaisersose]

 

It's better than the caste by birth concept which put India in such a pathetic state that allowed it to be taken over by the British and other foreignors.

 

You will have to do better than that. Show me evidence that the Indian caste system was the reason for Indian colonization or are you just repeating something you heard somewhere without thinking it out?

 

And then, please explain how the British colonized almost the entire world, but it is only in the case of India that caste was the reason.

 

I'll wait,

 

Cheers

[Kyros]

 

You will have to do better than that. Show me evidence that the Indian caste system was the reason for Indian colonization or are you just repeating something you heard somewhere without thinking it out?

 

And then, please explain how the British colonized almost the entire world, but it is only in the case of India that caste was the reason.

 

I'll wait,

 

Cheers

 

The takeover itself is evidence.

 

Chanakya Pandit, a real brahmana (head), single handedly guided Chandragupta (arms) to unify India 2300 years ago. That's what a real brahmana could do; and get this, Chandragupta himself was the son of a dasi.

 

Just look how easily the British took over India. The brahmanas didn't know how to lead or even care about teaching society.

[AncientMariner]

The British are basically in control of everything right now. Gandhi would be turning over in his grave if he knew what was going on.

[kaisersose]

 

The takeover itself is evidence.

 

What was the British colonization of the rest of the world evidence of? You conveniently skipped the question.

 

 

Chanakya Pandit, a real brahmana (head), single handedly guided Chandragupta (arms) to unify India 2300 years ago. That's what a real brahmana could do; and get this, Chandragupta himself was the son of a dasi.

 

There was no India at that time. His empire was the North Indian region including Afghanistan. South Indian kingdoms were not part of the Maurya empire. And so what if he was a lower caste guy and if Chankaya was a Brahmana? I fail to see the relevance here.

 

 

Just look how easily the British took over India. The brahmanas didn't know how to lead or even care about teaching society.

 

Please write intelligently if you can or else I advise you to keep silent and not embarass yourself with such nonsense.

 

Most Indian kingdoms were ruled by Muslim kings when the British came to trade in India. Brahmanas are not required to keep foreigners out. That is the job of rulers and evidently, they did not do a good job.

 

And what has any of this got to do with caste? There have been countless wars all over the world where someone always lost. To single out Indian wars and blame it on caste tantamounts to stupidity.

 

Cheers