More from Gurukrpa/Then More from Satsvarupa

[raghu]

 

I fought them from day one to institute DVD!

 

That is truly a shame.

 

If you had instead chosen to fight over instituting Blu-Ray, you would have gotten twice the resolution for only a marginal increase in price.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

That is truly a shame.

 

If you had instead chosen to fight over instituting Blu-Ray, you would have gotten twice the resolution for only a marginal increase in price.

 

I've lost nothing, everything is as it always should have been. The good, the bad, the ugly. It's all part of the training! No loss, nor diminution. I'm in the right place, at the right time, doing exactly what I should be.

 

To me I take it all serious, not as a joke. I feel that you are minimizing the effort I put toward preaching to devotees as if it was just a 'joke'. Not to me!

 

RCB

[andy108]

Of course he is attempting to minimize you and your effort. How else will the Big Ragu maintain the High Holy stature he imagines himself to have? His existence is so puny that all he can do is try to squeeze everyone else around him into even smaller morsels so he can convince himself he is King of the Hill.

 

Unfortunately King Ragu is so lost in the sauce, that he swam up and bit the toe of a Bhakti Raja, thinking it was a meatball, and now is choking on the indigestion.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Of course he is attempting to minimize you and your effort. How else will the Big Ragu maintain the High Holy stature he imagines himself to have? His existence is so puny that all he can do is try to squeeze everyone else around him into even smaller morsels so he can convince himself he is King of the Hill.

 

Unfortunately King Ragu is so lost in the sauce, that he swam up and bit the toe of a Bhakti Raja, thinking it was a meatball, and now is choking on the indigestion.

 

They will always be small men inside. That is OK if they stay out of the way of movers and shakers. I'm ready for many years, but their free will has it's own way. They are not even up to the level to take the heat my monkey sons get, let alone to follow actual dedication in the samkirtan movement. It's all a joke to them! Not me! Not you!

 

 

 

RCB

[AncientMariner]

 

I've lost nothing, everything is as it always should have been. The good, the bad, the ugly. It's all part of the training! No loss, nor diminution. I'm in the right place, at the right time, doing exactly what I should be.

 

To me I take it all serious, not as a joke. I feel that you are minimizing the effort I put toward preaching to devotees as if it was just a 'joke'. Not to me!

 

RCB

 

 

 

Awesome! Really like your attitude. Nice to see that out there in this crazy world. There is always hope as long as there are good people fighting the good fight even though everyone is beaten and battered by this kali-yuga at one point or another.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Awesome! Really like your attitude. Nice to see that out there in this crazy world. There is always hope as long as there are good people fighting the good fight even though everyone is beaten and battered by this kali-yuga at one point or another.

 

Thanks AncientMariner,

 

 

RCB

[Sonic Yogi]

 

That is truly a shame.

 

If you had instead chosen to fight over instituting Blu-Ray, you would have gotten twice the resolution for only a marginal increase in price.

 

I hope you voted Democrat!!!

 

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I hope you voted Democrat!!!

 

 

This has to be one of the most disturbing things I ever seen! Reminds me of Hendrix's face supper imposed over Lord Visnu on an album cover. Was that 70'?

 

I do not vote for non devotees, nor unqualified ones that run for office. No didn't vote for the new talking head.

 

Did you see that photo on the cover of Vogue magazine stating that Michele was the first lady amerika was waiting for? She gave the sign of the devil with her left hand, just like Bush did for 8 yrs! New boss, is the old boss. Disturbing picture!

 

 

RCB

[stonehearted]

 

This has to be one of the most disturbing things I ever seen! Reminds me of Hendrix's face supper imposed over Lord Visnu on an album cover. Was that 70'?

 

Axis: Bold as Love was created in 1967 and released in '68.

 

And yes, sparky's pic is a little creepy.

[andy108]

 

Axis: Bold as Love was created in 1967 and released in '68.

 

And yes, sparky's pic is a little creepy.

 

A little ?!?

 

Two of the most despicable characters of the modern age superimposed upon the Supreme Sweetness?

 

Its atrocious.

[Kulapavana]

I liked this story from Gurukripa:

 

 

"I presented Srila Prabhupada with all the money. We talked. I told him, "I want to go back to India, I do not want to stay in the USA anymore. I do not feel these Godbrothers are my brothers at all. I do not like ISKCON at all, Srila Prabhupada." Srila Prabhupada asked me, "Do you like me?" I said. "Yes Srila Prabhupada, I like you.". He said, "I am ISKCON. If you don't like ISKCON, then you don't like me." I replied, "But Srila Prabhupada, they don't act like you. So I do not like them. I like many of the devotees who act like you, but these leaders do not act like you." Prabhupada was silent for a moment, and then he said, "From here on out, you just work directly under me." Then he brought up the questions about Tamal's complaints about me and Tamal's desire that I not return to India. I said, "Prabhupada, Tamal is expert in using devotees for his own program. When he gets what he wants from you, then he dumps you." Srila Prabhupada's answer, exactly to the word with Lord Nrsimhadeva as my witness, and He can kill me if I am saying anything not true: "YES I HAVE MARKED THIS. HE IS NOT A VAISNAVA. He wants too much to be number one. I will rectify."

[AncientMariner]

 

A little ?!?

 

Two of the most despicable characters of the modern age superimposed upon the Supreme Sweetness?

 

Its atrocious.

 

 

 

 

Yeah pretty crazy. Hate to say it but we almost deserve the Obama-Hildebeast demon in this country because of all of the cow slaughter etc. but it would be truly a beautiful thing to see people wake up but I have pretty much given up hope on any sort of demigod birth induced Golden age of Aquarius. I am fully expecting things to descend even more and more into Idiocracy where people water their crops with gatorade and the Costco and Walmart stores are the size of cities. Hopefully I am wrong.

[suchandra]

 

I am fully expecting things to descend even more and more into Idiocracy where people water their crops with gatorade and the Costco and Walmart stores are the size of cities. Hopefully I am wrong.

No this is right, materially things won't improve, but go straight downwards. Why - the whole world heard the Holy Name. In order to increase material detachment humanity must be tortured now. Otherwise, if there's material opulence, "the worm wants to go back into the stool".

 

"Even if one tries to separate a worm from stool, the worm will be unwilling to leave. It will return to the stool. Similarly, a hog generally lives in a very filthy state, eating stool, but if one tries to separate it from its condition and give it a nice place, the hog will be unwilling. In this way if we study each and every living entity, we will find that he will defy offers of a more comfortable position. ”

 

SB 4.28.11

[AncientMariner]

 

No this is right, materially things won't improve, but go straight downwards. Why - the whole world heard the Holy Name. In order to increase material detachment humanity must be tortured now. Otherwise, if there's material opulence, "the worm wants to go back into the stool".

 

"Even if one tries to separate a worm from stool, the worm will be unwilling to leave. It will return to the stool. Similarly, a hog generally lives in a very filthy state, eating stool, but if one tries to separate it from its condition and give it a nice place, the hog will be unwilling. In this way if we study each and every living entity, we will find that he will defy offers of a more comfortable position. ”

 

SB 4.28.11

 

 

Good point, I hope eventually I can live in a world where people will not make fun of me for advocating cow protection.

[primate]

 

No this is right, materially things won't improve, but go straight downwards. Why - the whole world heard the Holy Name. In order to increase material detachment humanity must be tortured now. Otherwise, if there's material opulence, "the worm wants to go back into the stool". ...

What do you mean by ‘torturing humanity’? Mass death in some WW3 scenario and/or a complete social-economic meltdown? Will that generally improve spirituality? Or do you have something more moderate in mind?

[suchandra]

 

What do you mean by ‘torturing humanity’? Mass death in some WW3 scenario and/or a complete social-economic meltdown? Will that generally improve spirituality? Or do you have something more moderate in mind?

 

No, not that heavy, but as the saying goes, there’re no atheists in a foxhole, in trenches, on a battlefield. Just what we see right now, the material energy is somewhat roughing up the situation. This makes people think of praying or chanting. Not something like WW3 scenario.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

I liked this story from Gurukripa:

 

exactly to the word with Lord Nrsimhadeva as my witness, and He can kill me if I am saying anything not true: "YES I HAVE MARKED THIS. HE IS NOT A VAISNAVA. He wants too much to be number one. I will rectify."

So Prabhupada made a GBC, sannyasi and ritvik out of a man that he felt was not a Vaishnava?

 

So, Gurukripa waited over 30 years to share this little tidbit?

 

How curious.

 

This kind of revelation cannot do much except call in to question the judgment and character of Srila Prabhupada.

[andy108]

 

So Prabhupada made a GBC, sannyasi and ritvik out of a man that he felt was not a Vaishnava?

 

So, Gurukripa waited over 30 years to share this little tidbit?

 

How curious.

 

This kind of revelation cannot do much except call in to question the judgment and character of Srila Prabhupada.

Only for those who aren't steeped in knowledge of what Sri Krsna put on His Senapati General's plate.

 

Just look at how many other more minor revelations of SP's tactics have set people firmly in judgment against the character of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Those who would rush to judgement of Srila Prabhupada on the basis of considerations viewed in terms of pure material pragmatism and success are simply ignorant prakrita neophytes and their point of view will never negatively effect anyone who is seeing deeper and catching the Mercy.

 

All they can accomplish by such judgments is to influence some innocent materialistic seekers of truth from making a firm commitment, which is bad enough I suppose.

 

But for the purpose of the informed members of this forum, this is easily explained.

 

There is much to condsider here. Srila Prabhupada's mission was not a narrow one. It was one intended to directly effect the desperate needs of entire Earth due to the predominant rise of irreligiousity through the multitude of fallen souls in this age of hypocrisy, and address the needs of this entire Jagat as well.

 

We know Srila Prabhupada said "Vaisnava not so easy, if so why so many falling down".

 

We know there is a stage of mixed devotion and that an advanced personality will inform his neopyte disciples to consider all those practicing sadhana to be Vaisnava, but simultaneously sometimes some neophytes are known for their wild swings back into degradation. Thus they are not actually firmly a Vaisnava at those times.

 

Gurukrpa was at a more advanced stage at the time, where his intermediate discrimination noted how far Tamal, who once surrendered to Srila Prabhupada to some degree, had actually plunged into envious degradation. Thus Srila Prabhupada wishing to give assurances to one of his better men, confided in him the other side of the story, that Tamal actually could not be considered a Vaisnava at the time.

 

And in such a case, it is the Acarya's perogative to attempt to rectify the person if they feel it possible, or rectify the situation by putting a temporary HOLD on the relationship.

 

There is an instance of Srila Prabhupada showing some disciples the door, basically excommunicating them "for good" because they refused to surrender, or even make a show of it.

 

And of course the old axiom, keep your friends close, and enemies closer.

[suchandra]

 

So Prabhupada made a GBC, sannyasi and ritvik out of a man that he felt was not a Vaishnava?

 

So, Gurukripa waited over 30 years to share this little tidbit?

 

How curious.

 

This kind of revelation cannot do much except call in to question the judgment and character of Srila Prabhupada.

Good point, as soon you conclude that Prabhupada would have actually appointed TKG into the position of being the next acarya you end up there what you said, Prabhupada must have been of questionable character.

However, people who can think clearly, come to the conclusion just by examining what happened so far in ISKCON, that Prabhupada never appointed anyone to be the next acarya. Everyone was kept in the position as officiating neophyte and as soon there was a deviation these functions would have been newly filled with somebody else.

And all these managerial positions worked perfectly so long the officiating priest was following all the regs.

In sum, Prabhupada expected that in future people would fall down or leave the movement and that a temple community would immediately do the needful to replace/vote new officiating leaders every third year or as soon a leader fell down.

 

With this system any temple community would have easily survived till the end of kali-yuga.

[Kulapavana]

 

So Prabhupada made a GBC, sannyasi and ritvik out of a man that he felt was not a Vaishnava?

 

So, Gurukripa waited over 30 years to share this little tidbit?

 

How curious.

 

This kind of revelation cannot do much except call in to question the judgment and character of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I often wondered why SP surrounded himself with so many questionable characters and why he kept them in power despite so many mistakes on their part.

 

I doubt there was any 'great plan' in that. I think SP simply hoped that these people will eventually get purified and he trusted Krsna to take care of things.

[andy108]

 

I often wondered why SP surrounded himself with so many questionable characters and why he kept them in power despite so many mistakes on their part.

 

I doubt there was any 'great plan' in that. I think SP simply hoped that these people will eventually get purified and he trusted Krsna to take care of things.

 

In the second paragraph, which I agree with, you seem to have the vision that Krsna is taking care of things, and that "those people" were actually involved in a process of purification.

 

Yet if you really understood and believed that, I find it hard to understand how you could say what you did in the First paragraph.

 

Blaming Srila Prabhupada for "surrounding himself" with these characters?

 

Why can't you see it was Krsna who sent them to surround Srila Prabhupada?

 

And as far as keeping them in power, how else to "purify" them? Send them off to Moscow to work for Brezhnev?

 

As long as they continued to resubmit to SP each time they were chastised, he was obligated by love as Father and Spiritual Master to give them another chance, even if they would just fall prey to Maya 10 minutes later.

 

If you stop blaming Srila Prabhupada, take responsibility for your own trusting support of "those characters" which was part of your own purification (albeit at a higher level as victim not the main perpetrator), you can then ACTUALLY leave it all behind, including the subtle aparadha against Prabhupada, and take a quantum leap in your service.

[Kulapavana]

 

I

If you stop blaming Srila Prabhupada, take responsibility for your own trusting support of "those characters" which was part of your own purification (albeit at a higher level as victim not the main perpetrator), you can then ACTUALLY leave it all behind, including the subtle aparadha against Prabhupada, and take a quantum leap in your service.

 

I have to say you are way too sentimental to understand my point of view...

 

Prabhupada most certainly had a choice of who he surrounded himself with. He had 5000 disciples for crying out loud! It is puzzling to me why he chose so many questionable characters for the leadership positions in our movement. I certainly do not hold it against him - a lot of these guys were first class actors and natural con-artists, and perhaps SP was too trusting with his disciples.

 

And I trusted these people only because Prabhupada made them leaders of this movement, just like so many other second wave devotees. However, I never trusted them completely, and NEVER did anything contrary to my sense of right and wrong while in their service. I can live with that just fine.

[andy108]

 

I have to say you are way too sentimental to understand my point of view...

 

Prabhupada most certainly had a choice of who he surrounded himself with. He had 5000 disciples for crying out loud! It is puzzling to me why he chose so many questionable characters for the leadership positions in our movement. I certainly do not hold it against him - a lot of these guys were first class actors and natural con-artists, and perhaps SP was too trusting with his disciples.

 

And I trusted these people only because Prabhupada made them leaders of this movement, just like so many other second wave devotees. However, I never trusted them completely, and NEVER did anything contrary to my sense of right and wrong while in their service. I can live with that just fine.

 

Oh so he came to America, was surrounded with 5000 people, and like a captain of a team on a playground, he lined them up and picked, Ok you will be on 1st base, you will be the pitcher, you in left field.

 

You claim that Sri Krsna's Saktavesha avatara could be conned and tricked by a bunch of hippies you claim were "first class actors and natural con-artists."

 

Yet you weren't fooled. Trusted them but not completely. But you trusted Srila Prabhupada who was such a dupe.

 

Riiiiiiight.

 

The reality of the situation is that starting with the first group of men who stood forward, attended his lectures, got him a better apartment and began to serve him, and from then on those fallen westerners with rudimentary tendencies of the brahmana and ksyatria varna stepped forward, and he engaged them as they came.

 

It took a while for that # to become 5000 and he juggled them according to who he thought was best in whatever situation.

 

What part about Krsna as Supersoul dictating to the Acarya don't you understand.

 

On the other hand, by the sound of your posts, you don't believe he was an Acarya at all. Why don't you just admit it.

 

Perhaps because your pool of prospective disciples would quickly reduce to NIL.

[AncientMariner]

 

I have to say you are way too sentimental to understand my point of view...

 

Prabhupada most certainly had a choice of who he surrounded himself with. He had 5000 disciples for crying out loud! It is puzzling to me why he chose so many questionable characters for the leadership positions in our movement. I certainly do not hold it against him - a lot of these guys were first class actors and natural con-artists, and perhaps SP was too trusting with his disciples.

 

And I trusted these people only because Prabhupada made them leaders of this movement, just like so many other second wave devotees. However, I never trusted them completely, and NEVER did anything contrary to my sense of right and wrong while in their service. I can live with that just fine.

 

 

 

It is all good, we all make mistakes and we learn and we grow. I am glad to see that you seem at peace with your service and you are growing and becoming a good representative of Krishna. I know I have had people in my life that I have believed in only to find my trust was misplaced.

 

I am really glad to see you are not in that mode where you view it as aparadha when anyone critisizes the actions of some of these Iskcon gurus. I have tried not to be critical myself but as an outsider that was not even born or very young when most of the history of Iskcon happened I have always felt I had a right to scrutinize the legitimacy of an organization such as Iskcon given its history and given the claims by some that the only way to heaven is to surrender to an Iskcon guru or something along those lines. I apologize if I have ever been disrespectful to you or your godbrothers.

[theist]

 

What part about Krsna as Supersoul dictating to the Acarya don't you understand.

 

There is a basic premise that many people have wrong. It is not or has it ever been the acaryas duty or mission to point out the next pure representative of Krishna. That Krishna alone does. I find Prabhupada's books chock full of this teaching to the exclusion of all other schemes and plans.

 

 

We were well warned. Did not Srila Prabhupada point out the troubles that arose immediately after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta left his body?

 

 

It is also Krishna's doing who comes to the acarya to be taught. It is then up to Krishna to enlighten those souls from within to transcendental knowledge. Krishna awards that to the sincere seeker from within.

 

The guru's job is to engage those Krishna brings to him in devotional service in proportion to the amount they are willing to serve.

 

I am really sick and tired of people blaming Prabhupada because they were victimized by some charleton disguized as a devotee; "O why didn't he make it clear how the parampara was to continue. " He made it crystal clear in practically every page of his books. One must hear Krishna consciousness from the right source. How to find the right source? By the grace of Krishna one gets guru and by the grace of guru one gets Krishna.

 

The material world is the place for false religion to flourish. Why be surprised when you see it happen right before your eyes? Transcendental realization is for the rare few and attachment to the externals of religion are for the masses. It's entirely up to us which camp we will gravitate to.