More from Gurukrpa/Then More from Satsvarupa

[raghu]

 

Gandhi would be turning over in his grave if he knew what was going on.

 

Mariner, that would truly be disturbing given that his body was cremated...

[Beggar]

I have to essentially agree with the most Evil Kaisersose in his post #25.

But the entire brahmana/non-brahmana issue, in the context of Gaudiya Saraswat Vaisnava diksa is really a smoke screen to promote an iconoclastic outlook and therefore a much more ambitious agenda. Actually we are comparing apples and oranges, but since we don't even agree on definitions, when we go to grab the oranges they turn into tangerines. So these threads which really appear to be about this subject are just some kind of hodge podge where the protagonists will raise just about any argument to make their point. The non-Saraswat Gaudiyas could just as well debate this with the Saraswat Gaudiyas as both have distinctly different opinions on the subject which the Kaiser, Justin and Raghu seem to be unaware. Each different Vaisnava and even Advaitan sect would have, then again even another opinion. Each side will take the stand that they have the correct interpretation of the Vedic and Puranic concepts, so the arguments will go on without cessation and we can all join in gleefully in an orgy of tale chasing (more canine analogies), an avocation that the good (Evil) Kaiser is so expert at, with all of us idlers who have way too much time on our hands.

[Kulapavana]

 

How many times did Prabhupada tell his senior men "don't change ANYTHING after I am gone"?

 

What part of "don't change anything" is up for change?

 

 

What needs to be changed are the things that did not work, and clearly there was a lot of that around in Iskcon. Prabhupada himself changed things quite often when he saw that they were not working. Like with the sannyasa program. After initiating at least 55 sannyasis and seeing most of them fall down, Prabhupada decided that there will be no more sannyasis in Iskcon. How is that for a major change? Prabhupada was pragmatic, not dogmatic.

 

It is dogmatic slogans like "don't change ANYTHING Prabhupada implemented" that prevent much needed reforms in our movement.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

After initiating at least 55 sannyasis and seeing most of them fall down, Prabhupada decided that there will be no more sannyasis in Iskcon..

I don't buy that.

 

That would be Srila Prabhupada admitting that he made a lot of big mistakes.

I don't think Srila Prabhupada made a lot of big mistakes.

 

When he gave sannyasa to Adi-keshava das he supposedly told him that at some time in the future he might not want to be a sannyasa but for the time being as the TP in New York it gave him the authority he needed to be a strong leader there.

 

Prabhupada knew that some of them would not make it when he gave them sannyasa.

 

this claim that Srila Prabhupada mandated no more sannyasis in ISKCON is not supported by any sort of official proclamation from Srila Prabhupada.

 

If we buy your conclusions then we have to think of Srila Prabhupada as a man with bad judgement who made many mistakes.

 

That is certainly no way to think of Srila Prabhupada.

 

The only thing that needs to be changed in ISKCON is the policy of rejecting the official proclamations that Srila Prabhupada signed.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Sats is surrounded by sycophants. He could read The Playboy Adviser before japa and the yes men would tell him that its the right thing to do. He had siksa gurus in Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja and he was forced by the GBC to renounce them in the 80's and 90's respectively. And I really believe that he was forced to be a Zonal by the GBC of the time. The whole thing drove him crazy and there are persons who will have to answer for what they have done. On the other hand there are many who want a watered down version of Iskcon, and now they are getting what they desire.

No one forces anyone! Sats was bad news bears in 77. I know from personal conversations with him on DVD. . Do not be fooled.

 

RCB

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Then you just exposed that you are neither a Vaishnava or a brahmana.

 

 

When you grow up to become an adult you might understand.

 

I too think that it is possible that all of the fallen so-called gurus are not devotees at all! But synister men sent to disrupt Srila Prabhupada's movement. Understand?

 

Hare Krsna

 

RCB

[bhaktatraveler]

 

You will have to do better than that. Show me evidence that the Indian caste system was the reason for Indian colonization or are you just repeating something you heard somewhere without thinking it out?

 

And then, please explain how the British colonized almost the entire world, but it is only in the case of India that caste was the reason.

 

I'll wait,

 

Cheers

 

Our spiritual master has said that India is suffering because of the on set of Kali yuga. That started with the first fallen brahamna Srigi(?) He cursed the faltless emperor. Then down hill from there, that would include loss of a society based on guna and karma, sanatana dharma. Thereby opening the door to retribution from foreign invaders.

 

Hare Krsna

 

RCB

 

PS. for someone whom posses as a stalwart vedic Indian, I would say you are less Indian. More British by the us of 'cheers' as the british do.

[Kulapavana]

 

this claim that Srila Prabhupada mandated no more sannyasis in ISKCON is not supported by any sort of official proclamation from Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada Conversation, January 7, 1977, Bombay:

 

• Prabhupada: "If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Krsna... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyasis. And those sannyasis who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your grhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and sikha are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere…"

"And this kind of hypocrisy--they have taken sannyasa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyasi anymore. I have got very bad experience."

(Room Conversation, 7th January, 1977)

[Sonic Yogi]

 

I too think that it is possible that all of the fallen so-called gurus are not devotees at all! But synister men sent to disrupt Srila Prabhupada's movement. Understand?

 

Hare Krsna

 

RCB

 

I remember when these men were sincere and trusted and loved by Srila Prabhupada.

I don't think they are trying to be evil.

If they were so evil and nasty I think Srila Prabhupada in all his wisdom would have seen through the facade.

 

They are just neophytes that pretended to be advanced devotees.

 

Obviously, the idea of an "advanced devotee" was a very naive and simplistic notion in ISKCON back in them days.

 

No, I am the demon false devotee.

I have plenty of proof of that.

 

They are all more sincere than me.

 

At least that is the way a humble person is supposed to think.

 

I am not humble, but I can't even fool myself about being some authentic Vaishnava.

I am not even close.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I have to essentially agree with the most Evil Kaisersose in his post #25.

But the entire brahmana/non-brahmana issue, in the context of Gaudiya Saraswat Vaisnava diksa is really a smoke screen to promote an iconoclastic outlook and therefore a much more ambitious agenda. Actually we are comparing apples and oranges, but since we don't even agree on definitions, when we go to grab the oranges they turn into tangerines. So these threads which really appear to be about this subject are just some kind of hodge podge where the protagonists will raise just about any argument to make their point. The non-Saraswat Gaudiyas could just as well debate this with the Saraswat Gaudiyas as both have distinctly different opinions on the subject which the Kaiser, Justin and Raghu seem to be unaware. Each different Vaisnava and even Advaitan sect would have, then again even another opinion. Each side will take the stand that they have the correct interpretation of the Vedic and Puranic concepts, so the arguments will go on without cessation and we can all join in gleefully in an orgy of tale chasing (more canine analogies), an avocation that the good (Evil) Kaiser is so expert at, with all of us idlers who have way too much time on our hands.

 

That sounds about right!

 

RCB

[Kulapavana]

 

The only thing that needs to be changed in ISKCON is the policy of rejecting the official proclamations that Srila Prabhupada signed.

 

Srila Prabhupada signed the DOM document yet later on he did many things that were contrary to it, such as appointing temple presidents and GBCs without a vote and making GBCs a position for life.

 

My point was that SP himself was changing his own decisions as he saw fit at a particular time. Prabhupada wanted to make sure things WORKED, producing desired RESULTS. That what was constant, and that is what should NOT CHANGE.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I remember when these men were sincere and trusted and loved by Srila Prabhupada.

I don't think they are trying to be evil.

If they were so evil and nasty I think Srila Prabhupada in all his wisdom would have seen through the facade.

 

They are just neophytes that pretended to be advanced devotees.

 

Obviously, the idea of an "advanced devotee" was a very naive and simplistic notion in ISKCON back in them days.

 

No, I am the demon false devotee.

I have plenty of proof of that.

 

They are all more sincere than me.

 

At least that is the way a humble person is supposed to think.

 

I am not humble, but I can't even fool myself about being some authentic Vaishnava.

I am not even close.

 

That I'm not vaisnava does not mean that I can't make discrimination according to scripture. I think you are more than Sats any day! I've talked to both of you. You get my vote, he gets the moat. I say kill them all and let Krsna sort it out! LOL(thats a joke Vern)

 

Hare Krsna

 

RCB

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Srila Prabhupada signed the DOM document yet later on he did many things that were contrary to it, such as appointing temple presidents and GBCs without a vote and making GBCs a position for life.

 

My point was that SP himself was changing his own decisions as he saw fit at a particular time. Prabhupada wanted to make sure things WORKED, producing desired RESULTS. That what was constant, and that is what should NOT CHANGE.

 

I like it! I my not argee with the application, but the generality is good.

 

RCB

 

 

 

RCB

[Kyros]

 

What was the British colonization of the rest of the world evidence of? You conveniently skipped the question.

 

Not at all, the rest of the world didn't have brahmana's.

 

 

There was no India at that time. His empire was the North Indian region including Afghanistan. South Indian kingdoms were not part of the Maurya empire. And so what if he was a lower caste guy and if Chankaya was a Brahmana? I fail to see the relevance here.

 

Please write intelligently if you can or else I advise you to keep silent and not embarass yourself with such nonsense.

 

Use some common sense when reading my posts, as well as other people's posts. It would answer a lot of your questions.

 

I was giving an example of what a real brahamana could do. I thought that was obvious, sorry for giving you too much credit.

 

 

Most Indian kingdoms were ruled by Muslim kings when the British came to trade in India. Brahmanas are not required to keep foreigners out. That is the job of rulers and evidently, they did not do a good job.

 

And what has any of this got to do with caste? There have been countless wars all over the world where someone always lost. To single out Indian wars and blame it on caste tantamounts to stupidity.

 

Cheers

 

More evidence that caste by birth people are incompetent.

 

1. Real brahamana's wouldn't have allowed Muslim kings to sit on the throne, but they did.

 

2. Real kshatriya's (leaders), who were trained by brahamana's, wouldn't have allowed foreignors to take over.

 

3. Those countless Indian wars happened because fake brahamanas were the head of society, and if the head of society is weak so is the rest of the civilization.

 

"Cheers"

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Not at all, the rest of the world didn't have brahmana's.

 

 

 

Use some common sense when reading my posts, as well as other people's posts. It would answer a lot of your questions.

 

I was giving an example of what a real brahamana could do. I thought that was obvious, sorry for giving you too much credit.

 

 

 

More evidence that caste by birth people are incompetent.

 

1. Real brahamana's wouldn't have allowed Muslim kings to sit on the throne, but they did.

 

2. Real kshatriya's (leaders), who were trained by brahamana's, wouldn't have allowed foreignors to take over.

 

3. Those countless Indian wars happened because fake brahamanas were the head of society, and if the head of society is weak so is the rest of the civilization.

 

"Cheers"

 

Yes, 'real' meaning by guna and karma, not birth only! That has some effect. But if it was perfect we would not have a commonly used terminology for failure to imbide the guna and karma of high class father, in the nomenclature of 'dvija-bandu'

 

That's the fall down that has lead to India's previous distruction and keeps Her a laughing stock today. By birth gotra. India is our glorious Mother, why have they slaughtered Her with a by birth caste system?

 

Hare Krsna, RCB

[andy108]

 

Prabhupada himself changed things quite often when he saw that they were not working Prabhupada was pragmatic, not dogmatic.

It is dogmatic slogans like "don't change ANYTHING Prabhupada implemented" that prevent much needed reforms in our movement.

Kulapavana is conflating the Authority(Acarya) with the one’s he authorizes(disciples).

The reason why Srila Prabhupada gave Dogma (strict instructions) is to preempt the possibility of students like Kulapavana from attempting to justify “Change” based on their illusory perception that the Acarya’s view lacked pragmatism according to current circumstances. Upon closer examination, everytime a student gives reasons to justify their viewpoint of needed “Change”, the analysis will reveal they are in error.

Srila Prabhupada was quoted probably hundreds of times warning his students not to change anything unilaterally, that such an action shows lack of respect for their Guru, that it is never justified no matter what the student “thinks”.

The fact that the Acarya personally changed one of his own rules, such as the awarding of Sanyassa order, (which he never gave any of his students the authority to award to anyone else by the way), cannot be construed as an excuse that the Acayra would condone his students neglecting his multitude of instructions NOT TO CHANGE his orders and system, and is a sure sign of material ambition clouding one’s vision.

In fact the Founder-Acarya of the Iskcon movement Kulapavana claims to be part of and represent went so far as to take careful legal measures according to the law of the Country where he founded his movement in order to guard against such ambitious unauthorized changes to his movement. In his last will and testament we find item #2. regarding the system of management for is temples.

2. Each temple will be an ISKCON property and will be managed by three executive directors. The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.

Now. To cast more light on how such ambitious material delusions will manifest, let us look closely at the justifications Kulapavana uses to convince others that we have the right and duty to change things.

 

Srila Prabhupada signed the DOM document yet later on he did many things that were contrary to it, such as appointing temple presidents and GBCs without a vote and making GBCs a position for life.

First, the Hyperbole “many changes” should give one pause immediately.

Moving to the DOM document, the only item that bears ANY instruction regarding how a temple president gets into office is #8

8. Removal of a Temple president by the GBC requires support by the local Temple members.

So Srila Prabhupada appoints a temple president, as he had done always, and obviously makes a terrible argument to justify changing anything, even if change was allowed.

As far as making GBC a position for life. He stated on May 28<SUP>th</SUP> 1977

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were all asked by the rest of the GBC to come to ask some questions. Most... These are the members of the original GBC as you first made it up. So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know how long should they remain in office?

Prabhupāda: They should remain for good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should remain for good.

Prabhupāda: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. Rather, if some competent man comes, he should be added. I shall recommend that Vāsudeva become one of the GBC.

The first thing a responsible manager would do after hearing this is to bring the DOM paperwork to Srila Prabhupada to be amended and signed to reflect his change in orders. Especially the point about adding to the overall ranks of the GBC if a competent man comes along. Which would require amending to the election process.

Of course we know that the managers at the time were thinking of one thing, their own glorification and ambition, so there was no way they even remembered what the DOM said, and if they did, they certainly did not want to bring it up. But looking closely at the relevant portions of the DOM, and taking the spirit of Srila Prabhupada’s mood on change, we find no substantial contradiction, but an opportunity perhaps to give clarity to the process of electing GBC from among temple presidents, while simultaneously assuring they are elected for life.

2. His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, which may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple. Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Śrīla Prabhupāda will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Śrīla Prabhupāda's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.

3. The commissioners will serve for a period of 3 years, and they may be re-elected at the end of this period.

Just looking at these 2 successive items, a person might make the mistake of seeing a contradiction within the very DOM itself.

It is a self-evident fact that Srila Prabhupada would never encourage the capricious removal of someone who was fulfilling their appointed role properly. Thus his statement on May 28<SUP>th</SUP> 1977 that “they cannot be changed” should be seen in that light.

And in keeping with Srila Prabhupada’s spirit of no change, we can see this reflected in #2 and #3 of the DOM.

He qualifies the instructions of item #2 by stating in #3 that “the commissioners” = “they” (referring to ALL) “may be re-elected”, in otherwords placed back upon the ballot as a qualified nominee.

So even in the event that his disciples choose 8 temple presidents every three years from all eligible temple presidents, and nominate those 8 for election, it is apparent that according to item #3 there are to be 2 segments to the elections. The first wherein the all Temple Presidents and secretaries in charge of a temple are allowed to re-elect the entire body of the GBC if they see fit, and according to the Spirit of Srila Prabhupada’s no change policy in general, and his statement on 5/28/77, if a GBC member is performing his duty properly, has not broken with the parameters of his appointment, and wishes to continue, the TPs SHOULD ceremonially re-elect the whole lot of them.

 

My point was that SP himself was changing his own decisions as he saw fit at a particular time. Prabhupada wanted to make sure things WORKED, producing desired RESULTS.

And MY point is that SP was himself exclusively qualified to make any changes to his management system.

And furthermore, I would like to point out that no-one is forced or beholden to follow the instructions of the Founder-Acarya of Iskcon. If they think they can do better, and even want to use His institutional paradigm as a working model, they have the free-will and my blessing to do so.

However, such a person seeks to ..

- represent themselves as being a member of Iskcon.

- a disciple of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami,

- use his physical properties for such a purpose,

- or use his intellectual property without full disclaimer of their breaking with his established instructions on how to use his intellectual property.

They do not have my blessing to do so, and I will correct their errors forthwith each and every time.

 

But this could be considered a blessing if they see reason and change their ways, for it is written...

 

3rd Canto (3.4.26), “Although one may be well versed in transcendental science, one should be careful about the offense of maryada-vyatikrama, or impertinently surpassing a greater personality. According to scriptural injunction one should be very careful of transgressing the law of maryada-vyatikrama because by so doing one loses his duration of life, his opulence, fame and piety and the blessings of all the world. To be well versed in the transcendental science necessitates awareness of the techniques of spiritual science.”

 

 

[Kulapavana]

 

And MY point is that SP was himself exclusively qualified to make any changes to his management system.

 

 

In case you have not noticed, he is not around to make the changes needed now.

[Kulapavana]

 

The reason why Srila Prabhupada gave Dogma (strict instructions) is to preempt the possibility of students like Kulapavana from attempting to justify “Change” based on their illusory perception that the Acarya’s view lacked pragmatism according to current circumstances. Upon closer examination, everytime a student gives reasons to justify their viewpoint of needed “Change”, the analysis will reveal they are in error.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada gave power to a lot of ambitious and unqualified people, like Gurukripa of this thread, creating a top down authocratic management system extremely easy to abuse. Iskcon history is full of examples showing how poorly this system worked.

 

Of course the dogmatists like you will argue that no changes are needed - you most likely have a hard time conceiving that there ARE better systems of management. You just like to blame only the people who were executing this system for it's failures.

 

To a pragmatist like me there is no question Iskcon management should be reformed, perhaps using DOM as a starting kernel of the new system. Why? Because people are NOT perfect, and they WILL try to abuse power given a convenient situation. When creating a mangement system you MUST consider the level of skill and the quality of people who will be implementing it in real life.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

In case you have not noticed, he is not around to make the changes needed now.

 

In case you haven't noticed from past conversations on this type of subject, you have proven not to be qualified to make those possible alterations/ajustments(the real ajustment, is no more tolerating out of varna schleppies, so much will just fall into place after that) do to previously/pressent, misconsquewed conceptions. You applying change would be like giving the keys of a Ferrari to a 3 yr old. First reconcil anything for Krsna, then come back for the next lesson.

 

You have voiced your partcial support for the pressent paradigum, guru club, ISKCON appointed by no objection vote. Give you keys? Ha! I know there is some one of them you have in the past given verbal support. You name them! Reject all of them as rascals and I would stand corrected.

 

Adam108 handed you your butt and your standing there with poop on you.

 

Hare Krsna, RCB

[Kulapavana]

 

You have voiced your partcial support for the pressent paradigum, guru club, ISKCON appointed by no objection vote. Give you keys? Ha! I know there is some one of them you have in the past given verbal support. You name them! Reject all of them as rascals and I would stand corrected.

 

 

Apparently none of the people Prabhupada made leaders of his movement were sincere... he was fooled by them and so was I... shame on us forever... at least I was not the one who gave them keys to the Ferrari

[andy108]

 

Apparently none of the people Prabhupada made leaders of his movement were sincere... he was fooled by them and so was I... shame on us forever... at least I was not the one who gave them keys to the Ferrari

 

That "none of the people" he made leaders of his movement were sincere seems apparent to you because your brain is in a fog due to a combination of understandable bitterness at having been duped, and a not-so-understandable case of acarya envy due to having contracted DADS (Dreaded Acarya disease syndrome) somewhere along the way.

 

Srila Prabhupada made many other leaders, but due to your handicap you cant recognize them, or even imagine they exist for that matter. There are dozens who broke off before being heavily doped by the dupers, read his books and instructions, and are collaborating and cooperating in small ways very gradually outside the perview of Apa-ItsaCon, the Narayana gopi-bhava fanatics, Tripurari's groupies, etc.

 

There are some on this very forum, who have for years tried to lead you from your bleary-eyed limited conception of what a Saktavesha Jagat Guru Maha-Bhagavat Acarya did and can accomplish even "when he is gone", who you have resisted with both heels dug in, flailing arms, and gnashing of teeth.

 

But if you keep insisting they don't exist, you may get your wish, and be left to strike out on your own. Of course spending 8 hours a day managing materialistic scientists will hold you back in your endeavor at Founding Worldwide spiritual mission in America, without leaning improperly on the efforts and properties of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Srila Prabhupada gave power to a lot of ambitious and unqualified people, like Gurukripa of this thread, creating a top down authocratic management system extremely easy to abuse. Iskcon history is full of examples showing how poorly this system worked.

 

Of course the dogmatists like you will argue that no changes are needed - you most likely have a hard time conceiving that there ARE better systems of management. You just like to blame only the people who were executing this system for it's failures.

 

To a pragmatist like me there is no question Iskcon management should be reformed, perhaps using DOM as a starting kernel of the new system. Why? Because people are NOT perfect, and they WILL try to abuse power given a convenient situation. When creating a mangement system you MUST consider the level of skill and the quality of people who will be implementing it in real life.

 

Here we go again! ISKCON history is full of I, me, mine, the instructions were always good. The baby is clean, a bath is useless.

 

Srila Prabhupada put in place many changes that were never followed. YES, I agree to blame the devotees and not the Guru. The failure is yours, you followed the a$$holes, not me. I fought them from day one to institute DVD! You followed like sheeple.

 

In real life I would not trust you with my life/to cover my back. You and your demon-crazy vote will do more harm tham good in the short run. In the long run ISKCON as a movement of Srila Prabhupada's invention will disappear utterly and compleatly. Oh that's right already there! So now you go have monkey vote and you do what they say.

 

Me? never!! I follow brahmans! This DOM is another example of your infantile understanding of my Guru's attempt at governing brahmans. Vote was given to brahmans, to put to rest a take over/coup attempt. DVD was to be undertaken again for over all renovation of stated failures to partisipate honestly from the constituency. Purfect material/spiritual management.

 

I have also seen Prabhupada say if you make it right there will be no problem. You are not a ksatriya! You can't make it right, doesn't mean I can't.

 

Hare Krsna, RCB

[Kulapavana]

 

You can't make it right, doesn't mean I can't.

 

 

all the power to you and other secret leaders Prabhupada appointed but kept hidden so that they can come out 40 years later to save his movement... I only wonder why he has not made you leaders from the very beginning?

[andy108]

 

all the power to you and other secret leaders Prabhupada appointed but kept hidden so that they can come out 40 years later to save his movement... I only wonder why he has not made you leaders from the very beginning?

 

Again, broaden your mind.

 

Is it not a possibility that some of the Bhatkas who are currently capable of leading an Iskcon Harinama Sankirtana Outpost wern't even BORN in 1967?

 

Do you still imagine He had so many monkeys (though Dear to Him servants) handing out millions of books so that Lord Krsna as Paramatma would make sure they ONLY collect dust on shelves?

 

What apa-Iskcon is doing right now is no longer recognizable as His Movement to anyone with a shred of brain matter. There is nothing to save. There is a Spiritual Movement that is continuing to influence hearts and minds of the sincere, and manifests in small ways as each person influenced shares a plate of prasadam with one or more others of like mind, or engages in Hari Katha on an internet forum, or meets for a rare but occasional Harinama. This movement will not dwindle, but only grow and organize carefully and properly under the guidance of the Iskcon DVD management system, while the apa-Iskcon Guru's cheerleaders, and their shadowy "reform in the name of change" counterparts fiddle while their empires and mini-fiefdoms burn to dust.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

all the power to you and other secret leaders Prabhupada appointed but kept hidden so that they can come out 40 years later to save his movement... I only wonder why he has not made you leaders from the very beginning?

 

Hidden? NO, suppressed. I've always been here, day one.

 

How do you know I'm not the leader? Did Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother's neglect of Him stop progress in His life? Follow as you like, does not interfear with my progressive training by action and experience. Through my ever pressent Guru.

 

RCB