suchandra Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 As for the Catholic Church, they have admitted that their Popes have had problems and are thus not actually on the same level, on par with Lord Jesus in their Church's historical documents. They have admitted that their Popes have had fall downs and are not the uttama class of devotee, but are priests. What is a priest, a priest follows rules and regs and when he is unable to follow, he's replaced. There's no big deal in replacing a priest. Peoples faith in God remains unshakeable in case a priest has to be replaced. However, there is a big problem when you have to replace Lord Jesus, God's direct absolute representative, who is worshiped as good as God, saksad hari. And this is what ISKCON does all the time. Infact, they teach now that, "you have to learn to live, tolerate and work with it, that our gurus might fall down". The Pope has also never said that he is absorbing sins like a diksa guru, rather the Pope says, he represents the diksa guru, Lord Jesus, so Jesus takes your sins and not the Pope, so that is the perfect ritvik idea. Therefore you find ISKCON gurus are always sick saying they absorbed too many sins because they consider themselves to be on the same level like Lord Jesus. The Pope never attacks and insults Lord Jesus by comparing him to neophytes who might fall down or deviate. In sum, from theological point of view, this is a massive attack on Lord Jesus, the Pope and the Church. ISKCON juxtaposing Lord Jesus, who is according the Vaishnava acaryas, a great devotee of the Lord and diksa-guru, but is juxtaposed with ISKCON's gurus to whom the GBC says, "we cannot give any guarantee that our gurus might fall down, we assume no liability about the spiritual status of our gurus, we disclaime liability in case of one of our gurus falls down, we do not accept any responsibility for any loss, damage or injury that occurs in case an ISKCON guru quits". Clear case of the GBC's failure to publically explain that their gurus are not like Lord Jesus on the uttama-adikari level, but are de facto only priests. Concealment of facts. 258.335 False statements and concealment of facts prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to make any false statement or to conceal any fact required to be disclosed under any of the provisions of this chapter. Effective: June 17, 1954 History: Created 1954 Ky. Acts ch. 119, sec. 36, effective June 17, 1954 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GODSEED Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 HARE KRISHN... AUM NAMAH SHIVÄY... as far as my ken goes...isKcon only had (and rather has and will have till next five hundred years), one Guru, who is A.C. BhaktiVedänta Svämi Prabhupäda... all the present so called gurus are nothing more than reclaimed souls....they can't be gurus at all...whoever it might be... a Guru has to be 'Shrotriya' (one who is thorough with the Vaidik Science) and 'Brahmnishtha' (God realized)...most of the present isKcon leaders who pose themsleves as gurus are neither....obviously, they're gonna leave the souls in the lurch... i may be forgiven if i overstate but Shreel Prabhupäda is the only Guru, in the True sense, isKcon has seen. Whatever isKcon is today is only and only because of the Mercy of Shreeman Mahäprabhu jee, Shree Nitäichandra and Shree Advait Äcärya accompanied by the Toil and Grace of the Six Gosvämees and all the pure Vaishnavas... after the Metamorphosis caused through Shreel Prabhupäda jee, there was no one who could take isKcon from there and to-day we can see isKcon being mechanically dragged (and not enthusiastically governed) through the rituals of Love and Devotion to ShreeKrishn! I mean one can feel the perfunctoriness in the äratees, the prasäda distribution etc., barring a few most of the isKcon people are more or less devoid of Krishn-prem...they're are addicted to rituals more than spontaneous Love for ShreeKrishn. and finally with Shreel Prabhupäda jee's Divine Teachings being edited by His so called disciples...we can safely conclude that the Guru-Shishya Pramparä is finally Broken, i'm sure Vaidhi Bhakti is not supposed to be mechanical... Haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GODSEED Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 a little change.... i think i went little berzerk over commenting about the present isKcon condition... i certainly cannot dare to generalize the 'mechanicality' that a lot of isKcon sadhus have slipped into... there are and must be a few genuine souls, who might even today be yearning to serve ShreeKrishn with their hearts and not finishing off their 'jobs' with just heart-less and mechanical rituals of somehow blurbing sixteen rounds and others.... anyway, my apologies to all those genuine souls and to those also who are not as i've no right whatsoever to comment upon them... may Bhagavän ShreeKrishn forvige me.... readers pls. excuse me on this... HareKrishn Aum Namah Shiväy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISHARAJAS Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 HareKrishNA Aum Namah Shiväy PRABUKI JAI, KALIYUGA HAS GIVEN US THE LIBERTY TO DEBATE ON ANY ISSUES BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN EVER EXISTING ZONES WHICH WE CAN NEVER DISPUTE. THE PRESENT SANNYASI MAHARAJS OF ISKCON BELONG TO THAT KIND OF DIVINE ZONE. THEY ARE UNFEIGNED ,BONOFIDE , PURIFIED AND GOD SEND PERSONALITIES WITH RICH HUMILITY , WHO SHOWER THE SAME LOVE OF LORD KRISHNA AND RADHARANI AS SHOWERED BY ANY OF THE PAST BONAFIDE VAISHNAVA SAMBRADAYA GURUS A AS TRUE VAISHNAVA DEVOTEE I FEEL AND HUMBLY SUBMIT THAT ISKCON IS A BONOFIDE VAISHNAVA SAMBRADAYA, AS PRESCRIBED IN THE BONOFIDE SCRIPTURES AND HAS PERFECT HIERARCHY OF GURU SHISYA PARAMPARA, WHICH IS GOING TO EXIST EVER. THE REAL SUBSTANCE OF BAGAVAT GITA IS BEING APPROPRIATELY INCULCATED TO THE HUMAN SOCIETY BY THE GURUS OF ISKCON AND THEIR CAUSELESS MERCY IS ADORABLE. HARINAM WILL TAKE CARE OF THE OF THE INNOCENT HUMANT SOCIETY AND THE VAISHNAVA ISKCON GURUS WILL EVER SHOWER THEIR CAUSELESS MERCY UPON THEM. HARE KRISHNA !!! RADHARANIKI JAI !!! PRABUPAD KI JAI !!! HARIBOL SERVANT OF SERVANT OF SERVANT OF ...... SERVANT OF THE GURUS OF ISKCON SRIRAM R ALWARTHIRUNAGAR CHENNAI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasa_prada Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 There's a lot of good points here but without getting bent out of shape I think that "ISKCON Guru" is first and foremost a title. The actual position is much more like that of a prison minister who is also a prisoner. They are typically not free or liberated yet, not Christ, but have attained that tentative status due to their good behavior. A recent GBC resolution requests that all aspiring initiates be directed to Srila Prabhupada as their only siksa-guru for 6 months. After which time I guess they can pick their chaplain or run to Bangalore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 There's a lot of good points here but without getting bent out of shape I think that "ISKCON Guru" is first and foremost a title. The actual position is much more like that of a prison minister who is also a prisoner. They are typically not free or liberated yet, not Christ, but have attained that tentative status due to their good behavior. A recent GBC resolution requests that all aspiring initiates be directed to Srila Prabhupada as their only siksa-guru for 6 months. After which time I guess they can pick their chaplain or run to Bangalore Thanks rasa_prada, good point to chose a humorous approach (Hi, I'm a ritvik who supports ISKCON and reads Narayana Maharaja). As Risharayas reports from Chennai, he feels like showering in total mercy all day. All over Europe we had a total break down - all ISKCON gurus fell down and had to be replaced past years, yes, like you say, prison minister who is also a prisoner. Concerning Christ, the great acaryas of India never said the he's not the son of God and the way he's worshiped by ritviks is false, no acarya ever said like this, here you are presenting your personal opinion. There is nothing wrong you can believe what you like, but why Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila Bhaktivinoda never mentioned that Christ is nothing but a conditioned soul? Run to Bangalore, guess people rather stay away from Vaishnavism when things look so chaotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasa_prada Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Well, I grew up Catholic but I don't know much about Christ. On the playground at school we were making the sign of the cross, "in the Name of the John, Paul, George and Ringo, Amen" and that was probably the beginning of the end for me. But I can empathize with some of what you are saying. Then again.. There's no big deal in replacing a priest. Peoples faith in God remains unshakeable in case a priest has to be replaced. Really, if enough priests have to be replaced people may just quit God. I have seen this in my parents. In Kali-yuga true gurus as well as true priests are difficult to find - EXTERNALLY. One has to struggle to find time to reach the internal world, in spite of the onslaught of day-to-day "reality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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