Diksa or Death

[Sonic Yogi]

Kulapavana loses credibility in my mind because he refuses to accept another spiritual master in light of the fact that his diksha guru was unfit for the position. He criticizes even Srila Prabhupada and yet presumes to somehow or other be cultivating and propagating Krishna consciousness.

 

He just seems to be living in denial whilst still trying to presume that he can pass judgement on the actions of Srila Prabhupada without incurring the offense of acharya-aparadha.

 

He lives in a limbo-land of cherry-picking the things that he likes about Srila Prabhuapda while on the other hand speaking ill of some of his judgements like "surrounded himself with scoundrels" etc.

 

He is a real work for sure.

 

He is anti-ritvik and has no bona-fide diksha guru.

 

He seems to be a self-appointed authority able to get back to Godhead without a legitimate chaperone.

 

Who is his spiritual master that will come to him at the time of death and take him back to Godhead?

 

That is the mystery that even he doesn't know.

[suchandra]

 

Kulapavana loses credibility in my mind because he refuses to accept another spiritual master in light of the fact that his diksha guru was unfit for the position. He criticizes even Srila Prabhupada and yet presumes to somehow or other be cultivating and propagating Krishna consciousness.

 

He just seems to be living in denial whilst still trying to presume that he can pass judgement on the actions of Srila Prabhupada without incurring the offense of acharya-aparadha.

 

He lives in a limbo-land of cherry-picking the things that he likes about Srila Prabhuapda while on the other hand speaking ill of some of his judgements like "surrounded himself with scoundrels" etc.

 

He is a real work for sure.

 

He is anti-ritvik and has no bona-fide diksha guru.

 

He seems to be a self-appointed authority able to get back to Godhead without a legitimate chaperone.

 

Who is his spiritual master that will come to him at the time of death and take him back to Godhead?

 

That is the mystery that even he doesn't know.

This seems a common pattern that sometimes people like Kula prabhu don't recognize that they actually are still traumatized about what happened in their live.

 

If you don't really get all the facts straight something strange happens, you turn into a hateful negative character.

 

In other words, the vacuum of not allowing the truth to enter is filled up by something else, in this case, negativity and hate.

 

Next, when transmitting this inner conflict, the surrounding area reacts also with negativity what heats-up the intensity of your negativism. Nothing remains static, things always move, either upwards or downwards. Thus you're caught in a downward spiral which ultimately can turn a devotee into a demon. Remember, karmis are NOT demons, demons are those who have knowledge.

[yogesh]

 

This seems a common pattern that sometimes people like Kula prabhu don't recognize that they actually are still traumatized about what happened in their live.

 

If you don't really get all the facts straight something strange happens, you turn into a hateful negative character.

 

In other words, the vacuum of not allowing the truth to enter is filled up by something else, in this case, negativity and hate.

 

Next, when transmitting this inner conflict, the surrounding area reacts also with negativity what heats-up the intensity of your negativism. Nothing remains static, things always move, either upwards or downwards. Thus you're caught in a downward spiral which ultimately can turn a devotee into a demon. Remember, karmis are NOT demons, demons are those who have knowledge.

Kulpavana Prabhu takes these words in a positive light instead of defending by attacking the views made in the above posts.

 

I get very upset and angry to hear people criticize HDG Sirla Prabhupada over the fall down of the people he had chosen to lead the movement. But can any of these critics name one person who at such an advanced age came to a counrty with almost no money but a heart filled with love and faith in his Guru's instruction came to spread the mercy of Lord Chaitanya and the Holy chanting of the Mahamantra.

 

He could have lived his life out in the comfort of Vrandavan and left us to try and make sense of Bhagavad Gita translated by people who have absolutely no faith in God/Lord Krsna. Can You imagine having to read the dry and confusing translation by so called learned doctors and professors. I don't even want to know the commentaries of these "Learned" people on the various verses.

 

Sirla Prabhupada's translations are very clear and authentic and his commentaries are an indication of his faith in God/Lord Krsna.

 

So to those arm-chair Critics (Kaiser and his troll buddys) before you critisize Sirla Prabhupada first try and achive just a fraction of what he has achived.

 

Sorry Theistji for hijacking this thread.

 

Just a quick question to devotees:

Is the following correct that the Sanskrit Verses of Bhagavad Gita remains unchanged but commentaries are the realizations and views of the various Acharyas and are in line with Guru, Sadhu and Shastra which are the checks and balances to avoid deviations?

 

Hare Krsna/Krishna

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

[Kulapavana]

 

Kulapavana loses credibility in my mind because he refuses to accept another spiritual master in light of the fact that his diksha guru was unfit for the position. He criticizes even Srila Prabhupada and yet presumes to somehow or other be cultivating and propagating Krishna consciousness.

 

 

There is no need for me to take diksa again. You just understand diksa differently than I do. And I have accepted several persons as my siksa gurus since Harikesa left the fold of Gaudiya sampradaya to pursue his own path. You know little of my heart.

 

As to being critical towards Srila Prabhupada: yes, I don not believe he was always right, but I have a very deep apreciation and gratitude for him. In most books that is not even remotely close to Vaishnava aparadha ar guru ninda.

 

You should worry about your own salvation and let me worry about mine.

[Kulapavana]

 

 

If you don't really get all the facts straight something strange happens, you turn into a hateful negative character.

 

Yes, pretty much all of the ritviks I came across in my life are like that. Their BTP is a poster boy of a hateful negative character.

[Kulapavana]

 

Kulpavana Prabhu takes these words in a positive light instead of defending by attacking the views made in the above posts.

 

Thanks for the good advice. I will try...

[Sonic Yogi]

 

You should worry about your own salvation and let me worry about mine.

 

But Grasshopper, I have descended upon Earth to spread the gospel of Lord Gauranga.

Your salvation is more important to me than my own.

 

My own salvation means nothing if I do not share the mercy with all the fallen souls.

 

[andy108]

 

I really appreciated andy108's last post (#24). Even if you don't agree with his solution(s) you will have to admit that it is an excellent analysis, especially for someone who was born after Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila.

 

Actually, I was born during the summer of love. 1968.

 

My first exposure to Sri Krsna was hearing his name from a news reporter on WINS 1010 NY radio news station.

 

It was after 1977 because I was at least 10 years old, and in the 5th grade.

 

The newscaster mentioned the name (as I heard it) Harry Krishnas. In relation to members of a religious group approaching people on the streets in NYC. In my mind, after hearing they were the "Harry Krishnas" I immediately envisioned the strange looking men who wear black hats with long beards and curly locks down their sideburns, and thought Oh, that must be who he means.

 

The rest of my life up til my 20's is just another mundane matter, no different in essence than any other conditioned soul. Average. Took some hard knocks. Got inquisitive and repentant, then Krsna sent some mercy.

 

I think the moral of the story is that by reading Srila Prabhupada's books, and by keeping company with a few select devotees over the years who abandoned the Prakrita Sahajiya cult of apa-Iskcon, but kept Prabhupada's Iskcon in their hearts, I can see pretty clearly what he wanted as opposed to what is being perpetrated. By the combined mercy of Guru, Sadhus, and Sastra.

 

I have nothing to add or offer of my own on top of what Srila Prabhupada gave. What bliss. I just read and repeat. And look good doin it. This gives me an otherworldly confidence that any to challenge anyone, no matter how long they have been "in the movement" or "initiated by Prabhupada". If they go against his conclusion, they are wrong and I know it.

 

Which reminds me of something Rasananda dasa declared in his article posted on the Sampradaya Sun today.

 

After First tooting his own horn regarding his material accomplishments and his illustrious mundane families lineage before meeting Srila Prabhupada, and then praising his early devotional service, I thought oh boy, here we go.

 

Then he went on to speak very nicely and I agreed with just about everything he said. Until he got to this point.

 

 

"As far as discipleship and guruship - disciple means discipline. As we all follow the particular discipline promulgated by Srila Prabhupada: following the four regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds and distributing his literature - anyone doing these things can claim to be his disciple. (Of course, the etiquette of senior and junior, with particular regard to those who were initiated during the physical presence of Prabhupada, should be observed."

 

Earlier in the article he focused strongly on the need for recoginizing Prabhus by qualification and behavior only. He went deeper and spoke very well. And he also admits Srila Prabhupada can and did set things up to take more disciples via those officiating on his behalf.

 

But now he advocates some sort of Senior/Junior "ettiquete" differential based on who was initiated "during the physical presence".

 

If someone is senior by birth to me, and is following strictly, but just a neophyte, I would treat them according to whatever classification of elder member of society he falls into, expect him to help me get the women and children out of a burning building first, and would expect him to accept spiritual duties according to his level of realization.

 

If they are junior by birth to me, but more advanced in devotional service, I would defer to them in class scheduling, and anything else they did better than me, but socially expect them to follow standard ettiquette based on age difference.

 

I don't think when a person was initiated had butt-all to do with anything.

And am sure those who do are looking to gain a spot of prestige where none is deserved.

 

Hare Krsna

[Beggar]

 

 

If they are junior by birth to me, but more advanced in devotional service, I would defer to them in class scheduling, and anything else they did better than me, but socially expect them to follow standard ettiquette based on age difference.

 

I don't think when a person was initiated had butt-all to do with anything.

And am sure those who do are looking to gain a spot of prestige where none is deserved.

 

Hare Krsna

 

To not respect one's elders is actually uncivilized behavior. This is true of both varnasrama dharma and vaisnava-sadacara or Vaisnava etiquette. Unfortunately in deep Kali Yuga many elders in both systems are not really worthy of respect, so one should then offer dandavats or obesances from afar.