Is your Guru God?

[melvin]

From the Book the Teachings of Lord Chaitanya I quote: The astonishing fact is that Lord Chaitanya. although the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, never displayed himself as Krsna, Rather, whenever he was detected by intelligent devotees as Lord Krsna and was addressed as Lord Krsna, he denied it. Indeed, he sometimes placed his hands over his ears, protesting that one shouldn`t be addressed as the Supreme Lord.Indirectly, he was teaching the mayavada philosophers that one should not falsely pose himself as the Supreme Lord and thereby misguide people. Nor should followers be foolish enough to accept anyone and everyone as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Note: That`s why until today I have not accepted a Guru who`ll initiate and lead me home back to Godhead.

[theist]

 

From the Book the Teachings of Lord Chaitanya I quote: The astonishing fact is that Lord Chaitanya. although the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, never displayed himself as Krsna, Rather, whenever he was detected by intelligent devotees as Lord Krsna and was addressed as Lord Krsna, he denied it. Indeed, he sometimes placed his hands over his ears, protesting that one shouldn`t be addressed as the Supreme Lord.Indirectly, he was teaching the mayavada philosophers that one should not falsely pose himself as the Supreme Lord and thereby misguide people. Nor should followers be foolish enough to accept anyone and everyone as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Note: That`s why until today I have not accepted a Guru who`ll initiate and lead me home back to Godhead.

 

 

Well you can always accept Lord Caintanya as the universal Guru and Lord Jagganatha as the Supreme Personality and receive the benefit of both.

 

 

Please read the quote at the bottom of this post.

[melvin]

"But my dear Sir, if I accept Lord Chaitanya as my Spiritual Master, He wont consider me a great fool. Therefore he will more or less punish by me saying that because I`m not a fool I have the capacity to study Vedanta. In turn he wont allow me to chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. He`ll tell me if I chant the Hare Krsna mantra it wiont make me perfect."

[mahak]

yes

[theist]

 

"But my dear Sir, if I accept Lord Chaitanya as my Spiritual Master, He wont consider me a great fool. Therefore he will more or less punish by me saying that because I`m not a fool I have the capacity to study Vedanta. In turn he wont allow me to chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. He`ll tell me if I chant the Hare Krsna mantra it wiont make me perfect."

 

 

Don't be so silly. Be a little more serious.

[Sonic Yogi]

CC Adi 7.14 purport

 

 

Both the viṣṇu-tattva (as Nityānanda Prabhu and Advaita) and the jīva-tattva (śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda) engage in the service of the Lord, but one must distinguish between the viṣṇu-tattva servitors and the jīva-tattva servitors. The jīva-tattva servitor, the spiritual master, is actually the servitor God. As explained in previous verses, in the absolute world there are no such differences, yet one must observe these differences in order to distinguish the Supreme from His subordinates.

[melvin]

Is your Guru His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada God? If your answer is yes, why? If your answer is no, why?

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Is your Guru His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada God? If your answer is yes, why? If your answer is no, why?

 

He is more important than God.

We cannot serve God directly.

We can only serve his pure devotees.

 

The genuine acharya, pure devotee spiritual master (not to be confused with ISKCON imitations) is much more important than God to the disciple because it is only through the spiritual master than we can approach Krishna.

 

God (Krishna) does not accept direct service.

He only accepts service rendered to and through his pure devotees.

 

So, in that way, the true acharya spiritual master is more important to the disciple than God directly.

 

Only a buffoon advocates direct service to Krishna.

There is no such thing for the fallen jivas.

 

It doesn't matter if the Guru is God.

The pure devotees control even Krishna.

So, even if you aren't God, if you can control God it is just as good.

[melvin]

 

He is more important than God.

We cannot serve God directly.

We can only serve his pure devotees.

 

The genuine acharya, pure devotee spiritual master (not to be confused with ISKCON imitations) is much more important than God to the disciple because it is only through the spiritual master than we can approach Krishna.

 

God (Krishna) does not accept direct service.

He only accepts service rendered to and through his pure devotees.

 

So, in that way, the true acharya spiritual master is more important to the disciple than God directly.

 

Only a buffoon advocates direct service to Krishna.

There is no such thing for the fallen jivas.

 

It doesn't matter if the Guru is God.

The pure devotees control even Krishna.

So, even if you aren't God, if you can control God it is just as good.

 

In other words, I can`t serve the pure devotee acharya and Krsna if I sincerely and simply chant: Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare?

 

--------------------

[mahak]

my guru is Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami, and my yes answer indicates that he did not accept me as disciple frivolously, nor independently. According to his own teachings on the subject, most elaborately explained in second chapter of The Science of Self Realization, that the Guru is inspired to act as guru, empowered directly according to the dictates of Sri Chaitaguru, Lord Nityananda. He did not decide to be my guru, Lord Nityananda Prabhu, for no apparent reason that I can see, decided that I should come in contact and inquire from Srila Prabhupada. Never did he say that he was my guru, my acceptance of him as guru and his acceptance of me as disciple is an arrangement of Lord Nityananda Prabhu, not prabhupada or me.

 

After initiation, a guru may indeed remind disciple that he is guru, but never does he force his will on another, violating the precepts agaibnst preaching to the faithless (or casting pearls before swine.

 

All who think that guru is boss never had a genuine guru. What sets Prabhupada apart from other so-called gurus is that Prabhupada tells his disciple that he is disciple as well. SArila Prabhupada coined the phrase "disciplic succession", and this means that a genuine guru is first and foremost, disciple, never acting independently, never apart from the will of the Supreme Lord Guru, Lord Nityananda Prabhu, and this is why I say my guru is god, because Srila Prabhupad is acting as His representative, inspired directly by him.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Beggar]

 

All who think that guru is boss never had a genuine guru. What sets Prabhupada apart from other so-called gurus is that Prabhupada tells his disciple that he is disciple as well.

 

A bona fide spiritual master actually feels this way in his divine humility, that he is just a disciple of his guru, simply carrying out his instructions. If one is not really pure then they will give lip service to this, but they will not be able to maintain and the false ego will then emerge.

[mahak]

 

A bona fide spiritual master actually feels this way in his divine humility, that he is just a disciple of his guru, simply carrying out his instructions. If one is not really pure then they will give lip service to this, but they will not be able to maintain and the false ego will then emerge.

 

This is quite a fact. Srila Prabhupada, as he always used the word "we" instead of "I", was not only referring to his line of disciplic succession, but his disciples as well. Some of his most poignant lectures, the up close and personal ones (not that they ALL weren't, mind you), always gave tribute to those who were linked to him via the above mentioned mutual commitment between guru and disciple. His continual support of his disciples gave evidence to the fact that the intimate relationship between guru and disciple is the possession of God, not himself. Some may say or imply that this was a teaching tool, that he really knew he was special and guru yet acted in humility, but, no, this is his genuine feeling. This is why he is all attractive (another reason I consider Him God), and those who imitate are not. A guru may take a seat in the Vyasasana and accept guru puja from disciples, but this is not self-adulation or ego-mania. He sits on the Vyasasana as duty, as yajna, and this is what is not at all understood by those who assume "position" of guru by dint of their long years of service (as in promotion for job well done). Some of the dudes that sat on the chair in the eighties thought they deserved all that went with their illusory perception of what is meant by "guru". And they paid dearly for this grave misunderstanding of Lord Nityananda's position in Guru Tattwa. They all got hit with the kusa weapon, removed in sometimes greatly embarassing manners. Some died, some went to prison, some went to the hell of forgetfulness (a gift from Krsna for their long years of service, because better to forget than continue with such grave offense to Lord Nityananda).

 

There is the well known story of what his early disciples felt when he told them that guru should be accepted as God. They had been taught the opposite, then, upon initiation, they were instructed in the yajna of guru-puja. This, however, is not contradictory, because Srila Prabhupada's trademark is "AS IT IS". Because this precept is given by Srila Rupa Goswami, Srila Prabhupada gives his disciples the exact, unchanged teaching. It is not that he wants their worship, nor does he ever accept it. If one were to worship him while neglecting worship of his guru, such worship is rejected. There is no Vyasapuja day celebration where Srila Prabhupada is worshipped independently. The guru puja and Vyasapuja is all about worshipping the Supreme Lord. One does not give tribute to Prabhupada without engaging in Harinama Samkirtana, the authoritive method of yoga in this age (yuga dharma). Some criticize his aggressive business practices, yet he always forbade and corrected his disciples as they lost the focus. Even his great and famous money-maker disciples were often severely chastized for losing focus of the real deal, the rounds, the mangal artik, the basic initial sadhana bhakti which is the basis of their reciprocal relationship. He often ordered them to retyurn the funds which were accrued by cheating the public, such as devotees posing as charity workers collecting for the starving masses in Biafra, forcing them to give the money collected to charity that they claimed to represent (such orders to correct their cheating tendencies were almost always disobeyed).

 

Srila Prabhupada stands out, even thirty years after disappearing from this realm, as genuine in regards to actual humility. Just as Srila Bhaktivinode in his music, he claims to be the most fallen. The difference between Bhaktivinode and whoever, Srila Bhaktivinode actually felt that way, others just parroted the feelings expressed in his songs. As Srila Prabhupada joked when hearing excessive "I am the most fallen" claims of his disciples, he said "That is the problem with you westerners, you always take exalted positions. You are not the most anything, you are insignificant."

 

All glories to the process of Guru Tattwa. Srila Prabhupada never deviates from Guru Tattwa, teaching us to say, "All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga". Shared, never alone, the Lord always appears with Guru, SesaBalarama. Rama never is without Laksmana, Krsna-Balarama, Nitai Gauranga. Lord Narayana is always resting on Sesanaga. And the Harinama Samkirtana incarnation of Lord Krsna appears with Srila Prabhupada in the western countries in this particular time.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[AncientMariner]

Agree, there is a genuine humility that comes across in Prabhupada's writings. I never met him but I have always appreciated this humility as genuine humility is very rare in this material world where everyone is constantly engaged in competition for survival and over everything wether it be sports or intellectual endeavors.

[bhaktajan]

My Guru is God.

My Wife is a bag of stool, blood, bile & pus.

My parents are mudha Karmis

My neighbors are grifters & sons Ltd.

My job is overtaxing.

My back aches.

My predicament is a load of . . .

 

 

So remember to say something nice at the next wedding you attend.

[AncientMariner]

 

My Guru is God.

My Wife is a bag of stool, blood, bile & pus.

My parents are mudha Karmis

My neighbors are grifters & sons Ltd.

My job is overtaxing.

My back aches.

My predicament is a load of . . .

 

 

So remember to say something nice at the next wedding you attend.

 

 

I don't attend weddings or funerals.

[melvin]

In our dialect/national language the word Guru means teacher, one who can impart knowledge to those who are wanting. From kindergarten to med school, I can`t count how many Gurus who went through my life who taught me knowledge. The most prominent is my father, Dr. Mario Cochiengco Mabalay(79 years old at present). He taught me pathology and dermatology in med school and family medicine when I became a full-pledged physician in 1987. The most important lesson I learned from him most was his humility not the medical subjects he taught to his students and me. From babyhood to adulthood my Guru was always there for me through thick and thin guiding me to what I am today.

Yes, I consider my father my Guru because after all he created me. You see, even before I was born, he dreamed of a character in the comic magazine he loved to read and vowed to call his future 3rd child, Melvin.

I`m the realization of that comic character in the magazine entitled. Melvin & Audrey.

[AncientMariner]

 

In our dialect/national language the word Guru means teacher, one who can impart knowledge to those who are wanting. From kindergarten to med school, I can`t count how many Gurus who went through my life who taught me knowledge. The most prominent is my father, Dr. Mario Cochiengco Mabalay(79 years old at present). He taught me pathology and dermatology in med school and family medicine when I became a full-pledged physician in 1987. The most important lesson I learned from him most was his humility not the medical subjects he taught to his students and me. From babyhood to adulthood my Guru was always there for me through thick and thin guiding me to what I am today.

Yes, I consider my father my Guru because after all he created me. You see, even before I was born, he dreamed of a character in the comic magazine he loved to read and vowed to call his future 3rd child, Melvin.

I`m the realization of that comic character in the magazine entitled. Melvin & Audrey.

 

 

 

I thought I read somewhere in Vedas that your father is your first guru. It looks like you had a good father and he guided you well and taught you humility, you are fortunate indeed to have had such a father and such good guidance.

[Sonic Yogi]

My Guru is not God, but he controls God with his pure love and devotion, so being God is not the highest position.

God is under the control of his pure devotees.

 

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[AncientMariner]

 

My Guru is not God, but he controls God with his pure love and devotion, so being God is not the highest position.

God is under the control of his pure devotees.

 

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

 

Good point and well said. I read in Prabhupada's books somewhere where he said something to the effect the mayavadis want to become God but a devotee is in a much better position because a devotee can become even greater than God in that they can control God by love.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Good point and well said. I read in Prabhupada's books somewhere where he said something to the effect the mayavadis want to become God but a devotee is in a much better position because a devotee can become even greater than God in that they can control God by love.

 

Amen.....

[Beggar]

Sridhar Maharaja — "Follow the Angels" Book Announcement

Srila Sridhara Deva Goswami reveals the highest ideal of guru tattva: Gaura-Gadadhara in madhurya-rasa, and Radharani in Krishna-lila. If we raise our head a little higher and look up, then we shall find Radharani and gurudeva. It is Radharani who is instrumental in accomplishing the function of gurudeva from behind. The source of grace for the guru is coming from the original source of service and love. Srila Sridhar Maharaja says, "We are requested not to see guru as limited in his ordinary personification, but as the transparent mediator of the highest function in his line. If only our vision is deep, we can see that according to the depth of our sraddha, our vision, guru tattva is very peculiar, very noble, very broad, wide and very deep."

As an example of the higher vision of guru, Srila Sridhara Deva Goswami relates how his guru (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) saw Gadadhara Pandit and Swarupa Damodara in Bhaktivinode Thakura and Gaura Kishora das Babaji respectively.

 

[ranjeetmore]

Guru is indifferent from God.This is accepted in all the bhakti scriptures right from Narada Bhakti sutra to the bhagavtam.

 

Sri Kabeer das says,"Jo kare so Hari kare,Hoye Kabeer Kabeer."

 

Now,Sri Hari has taken Over.I am on vacation now !

 

What does this mean ? Kabeer became Sri Hari ? Hardly.

 

Soon after Bhagavat praapti,Sri Krsna takes His rightful control over you.

 

See

 

Jeevatma => Maya => Sri Krsna.

 

This is the heirarchy for a maya baddha jeeva.But as soon as he surrenderes completely,Maya runs away from the Mahatma.Now Sri Krsna is in control.First it was Maya who used to dictate,Now it is Sri Krsna's Personal energy.

 

Sri Bhagavan is the one who performs all the work through the body of the mahatma.This is a very important fact.That's why the need to accept Sri Guru as All-knowing,Omni-present and to worship him as God.The Mahatma actually takes a back seat.It is Sri Hari who performs all the tasks.

 

You must have noticed that every great Vaishnava has introduced himself as just a humble servant,whereas he also states that Sri Krsna is the inspiration.I remember the author of a very high class book(Gaudiya Vaishnava scripture,mind you) stating that it was Sri Krsna who actually wrote the book,not he.

 

Hari and Guru are indifferent.The Supreme Lord manifests internally as the Paramatma and externally as Sri Guru.This fact is stated in the Bhagavatam.

Hence the need to always worship Sri Guru's feet just as one would Sri Hari's.Actually 100% guru bhakti ALONE is sufficient to attain Bhakti.

 

What you said is true.Sri Krsna CAN NEVER BE ADDRESSED DIRECTLY.How will you ?

You can't even see Him with the material eyes.

 

Guru ? Well,he comes down from the Spiritual world,in all this garbage material world,smiles at us.Embraces our dirty,degraded material bodies.That same Bhagavata enjoys Sri Krsna's embrace and he touches us.Just imagine how fortunate those disciples are.

 

This above regulation of considering guru even greater than God is the one that can make or break our bhakti.If you have charlatans who haven't even cried one drop of ecstatic tear for krsna and if he says he is guru,you are finished.The real mahatma never falls down.All this nonsense going on is intolerable.I don't knw how you people can maintain purity of thought towards Sri Krsna and SP after such incidents....

[melvin]

I wonder why we always give praise and thanks to Abhay Charan de for all the achievements he made in this world as ISKCON`s spiritual master and yet so little we`ve heard from his biological father, Mr Charan de. His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prahupada wouldn`t be what he was if his father did not put him to school as well as the financial assistance and spiritual guidance he gave to Abhay during his married life.

If Abhay`s father turned to Islam when Abhay was only a boy, there would have been no Prabhupada`s books to read. No Srimad Bhagavatam verses in English to quote. No Back to Godhead magazine. No ISKCON. No Matchless Gifts. No nothing at all!

My glories and obeisances therefore to Abhay`s father Mr Charan de( Srila Prabhupada`s Guru) for being a true and loyal devotee of Lord Krsna(Govinda).

[stonehearted]

Srila Prabhupada's father's name was Gour Mohan De. If you'd like to find out a little about him, you might enjoy reading the first few chapters of Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita.

[laxmi.l]

 

Is your Guru His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada God? If your answer is yes, why? If your answer is no, why?

God is an experience to me. Love is an experience too.

A guru is one who clears the mental cobwebs that clutter your path to experience God and Love.

We may project our experience of God onto a Guru, perhaps it is because we need an identification to experience any love...

Then again, an individual experience is a perception and that perception is always the truth to that individual.