Plain and Simple Rtvik vs. The Ten Thousand Year Reich

[Beggar]

What would be the difference between rtvik for Iskcon in 1978 and the Ten Thousand Year Rtvik Reich idea? Let's try to stay on point.

[suchandra]

Could you please explain why worship of Lord Jesus what is an example of bona fide worship of a great devotee, is performed by those who are mentally defect?

 

At least the great Vaishnava acaryas never would say such a thing, worship of Jesus is for those who are mentally disabled, handicapped. No Vaishnava acarya would ever teach this. Although we find that many present Vaishnavas slightly seem to consider like that, worship of Jesus is for lunatics, morons and maniacs - many are embodying this kind of understanding. And this hate and abhorrence against Lord Jesus was even intensified when finding out that he is an example that ritvik works.

 

Or do you mean to say that this only works for Lord Jesus - only he's so powerful to still guide from within and absorb sins? And others, especially Vaishnava gurus are not able for this, are too weak?

[andy108]

 

What would be the difference between rtvik for Iskcon in 1978 and the Ten Thousand Year Rtvik Reich idea? Let's try to stay on point.

 

Why don't you just observe the actions of Bhaktivedanta Swami up to 1977, then analyze how he formalized that system and what he said to do henceforward.

 

Then reject all the various mundane deviations from that simple program that you concoct in your mind, and that other devotees have put forward, that would lead to a non-spiritual totalitarian Autocratic regime like modern apa Iskcon.

 

Reject those concoctions

 

Just look at His actual instructions as a whole, and imagine what it would be like if people actually followed them. There is your simple answer if you must scry the future.

[Beggar]

"Hencefoward" until a qualified guru shows up? Henceforward until a qualified guru in his line appears? Henceforward until the end of Kali Yuga? Henceforward until Ten Thousand Years is over? Henceforward until someone names their son Henceforward das? Henceforward until 'Henceforward' becomes a common last name in the United States, U.K. Cananda and Austrailia? Henceforward until I say the world 'henceforward' so many times that I go insane!

[theist]

 

What would be the difference between rtvik for Iskcon in 1978 and the Ten Thousand Year Rtvik Reich idea? Let's try to stay on point.

Ritvik in in 1978 would have worked for Iskcon which it was intended to do but it was not meant as a formula for those outside the Iskcon structure. I'll say it again myself or anyone who wants to approach Srila Prabhupada for transcendental knowledge and enlightenment don't need an Iskcon, (ritvik or not), approved priest's stamp of approval. We only need to prayerfully open up Bhagavad-gita As It Is (1972) and proceed from there.

 

 

Once the particapants in these types of conversations come to understand that Srila Prabhupada's teachings are much more than Iskcon the conversaton will progress and deepen but aslong as people see only through an Iskcon context it will remain a stagnant debate.

[primate]

 

What would be the difference between rtvik for Iskcon in 1978 and the Ten Thousand Year Rtvik Reich idea? Let's try to stay on point.

Well, there is a fundamental difference between fascism and (religious) Truth..

[Beggar]

 

Ritvik in in 1978 would have worked for Iskcon which it was intended to do but it was not meant as a formula for those outside the Iskcon structure. I'll say it again myself or anyone who wants to approach Srila Prabhupada for transcendental knowledge and enlightenment don't need an Iskcon, (ritvik or not), approved priest's stamp of approval. We only need to prayerfully open up Bhagavad-gita As It Is (1972) and proceed from there.

 

 

Once the particapants in these types of conversations come to understand that Srila Prabhupada's teachings are much more than Iskcon the conversaton will progress and deepen but aslong as people see only through an Iskcon context it will remain a stagnant debate.

Good answer explaining how 'Henceforwardism' is not necessary for one's individual spiritual life, if their heart takes them exclusively to Srila Prabhupada. 'Henceforwardism' is an institutional consideration.

[andy108]

 

"Hencefoward" until a qualified guru shows up? Henceforward until a qualified guru in his line appears? Henceforward until the end of Kali Yuga? Henceforward until Ten Thousand Years is over? Henceforward until someone names their son Henceforward das? Henceforward until 'Henceforward' becomes a common last name in the United States, U.K. Cananda and Austrailia? Henceforward until I say the world 'henceforward' so many times that I go insane!

The problem is with you folks suffering from a combination of Senioritis and Diksa Guru Envy is that you choose to see Srila Prabhupada's Ritvik system as mutually exclusive of qualified Siksa Gurus.

 

And when someone points out the flaw in that, as I did in the other thread, you create a new thread in order to continue your mental regurgitations of your already defeated points of view, but of course, the best geriatric TV programming ended around 2 pm, and prime time is 4 hours away.

 

So without wasting any more pearls I will simply cut and paste the perfectly legitimate explanation of why the Ritvik system, once followed, will create plenty of Pure, advanced (oh sorry Beggar HIGHLY ADVANCED) devotees who will function as the Gurus they are, without the need to reject the Founder Acarya's order that all Diksa initiations be done on his behalf.

 

Of course I don't expect my lucid analysis to sway any old men with Acaryenvy who can't accept a future where they will be barred from forming a Caste-Diksa lineage with innumerable fawning disciples offering them Guru puja three times daily. Which by the way is the short version of why the Acarya, in his wisdom, ordered YOU RASCALS to cease and desist with your Diksa envy.

 

 

If we feel the ritvik order stifles our "freedom of expression" we will not recognize or even imagine the existence of the many devotees who understand that the Ritvik Orders in no way minimize the role of those who progress to the point of pure devotion and representation as Siksa Guru to others who come into the Daiva Varnasrama oriented fold of Iskcon.

 

The safeguard of forever ordering initiations be performed on behalf of a Diksa Guru and Acarya who the Lord spared no miracle to illustrate the absolute qualifications of is a master stroke of genious, forever slamming and barring shut the door behind which the evils of Caste Diksa privilege dwells.

 

Thus henceforward, in the real Iskcon, the humble and chaste at heart will from the neophyte stage advance and BECOME BOTH PURE AND ADVANCED DEVOTEES.

 

They will in their turn become actual qualified Instructing Gurus to many who take their discipline and commit their spiritual lives to their capable hands. And by their actions of following the order that all new initiates are Diksa Disciples of the ever present Saktavesha Avatara and Founder Acarya, they will reinforce through each generation the emphasis on the value of Instructions and the chastity to such in order to gain the mercy necessary to advance in Sadhana Bhakti. (as opposed to mercy by Diksa instructions be damned). By doing so they will reinforce the message that the Spiritual Master is always present in his instructions.

The results of successive generations of Sankirtana devotees ACTUALLY travelling from village to village in their local areas, unified under one Acarya and his many representatives will be the fruitive result that all other systems have failed to produce.

[Kulapavana]

"As I have five thousand disciples or ten thousand, so you have ten thousand each. In this way, create branches and branches of the Caitanya tree." (Mayapur GBC meetings 1976)

 

 

Prabhupada: "Like father, like son." You should be. Gaurangera bhakta..., jane. Everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa. He asked everyone, "Just become guru." Follow His instruction. You become guru. Amara ajnaya. Don't manufacture ideas. Amara ajnaya. "What I say, you do. You become a guru." Where is the difficulty?

 

 

"And what is Your ajna?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa. Bas. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. You simply repeat. That's all. You become guru. To become a guru is not difficult job. Follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu and speak what Krsna has said. Bas. You become guru. 770415rc.bom Conversations (15/04/1977)

 

 

 

"But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. (SPL Tusta Krsna, December 2, 1975)

 

"Everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread they are competent to make disciples." (Detroit, July 18, 1971)

 

Prabhupada did not change the law of the disciplic succession.

[mahak]

i thought it was fence-forward. darn.

 

funny, all the transcendental thoughts he passed on, and this one word about management of his property has created such a nonsense religion.

 

If I had to pick one thought, Id stay with "chant Hare Krsna and your life will be sublime." To each his own, I guess.

 

Rtvik is okay, provided that the initiating officiating guru has all the qualifications of "regular" guru. Otherwise, why associate with em, regardless.

[andy108]

 

"As I have five thousand disciples or ten thousand, so you have ten thousand each. In this way, create branches and branches of the Caitanya tree." (Mayapur GBC meetings 1976)

 

Not in the folio. Likely one of many concoctions of the already known to be corrupt GBC. Remember, the branches of caste-Diksa gurus withered, dried up, and fell to dust because they lost their link to the Heart of the Trunk of the Tree. The Instructions of the Acarya. The Sruti. The purely chaste sound current is the lifeblood which keeps the branch alive.

 

 

 

Prabhupada: "Like father, like son." You should be. Gaurangera bhakta..., jane. Everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa. He asked everyone, "Just become guru." Follow His instruction. You become guru. Amara ajnaya. Don't manufacture ideas. Amara ajnaya. "What I say, you do. You become a guru." Where is the difficulty?

 

"And what is Your ajna?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa. Bas. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. You simply repeat. That's all. You become guru. To become a guru is not difficult job. Follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu and speak what Krsna has said. Bas. You become guru. 770415rc.bom Conversations (15/04/1977)

 

Follow the instruction. Become Guru. Become bonafide pure devotee, advanced adhikara, Siksa Guru. Or is that not enough for you?

 

 

"But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. (SPL Tusta Krsna, December 2, 1975)

 

From a letter to a disciple who had already deviated so many times, was without hope, and was leaving/already left Iskcon.

 

 

"Everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread they are competent to make disciples." (Detroit, July 18, 1971)

 

So after Krsna as supersoul and Srila Prabhupada both watched the mood of his disciples, they knew they needed to seal the door against false caste Diksa Guru poison, and re-emphasize the eternal presence of the spiritual master. Therefore, THEY, ordered a system by which any qualified initiated disciple would become responsible as Siksa Guru to discipline an unlimited number of new Bhaktas. They would make innumerable disciples.

 

Problem for Kula, he won't be able to say "THEY ARE MY DISCIPLESMINE MINE ALL MINE!!!" "Buah Ha Ha hah!!!"

 

 

Prabhupada did not change the law of the disciplic succession.

 

Who said that the law of disciplic succession was based on who performs the Diksa initiation ceremony? That is the only thing he changed, where have you been?

[Kulapavana]

 

From a letter to a disciple who had already deviated so many times, was without hope, and was leaving/already left Iskcon.

 

No, that is an actual principle (law) of our sampradaya. You think Prabhupada made it up for Tusta? Are you calling him a liar?

 

Prabhupada is not above that law. And changing it means becoming an apa-sampradaya.

[andy108]

 

No, that is an actual principle (law) of our sampradaya. You think Prabhupada made it up for Tusta? Are you calling him a liar?

 

Prabhupada is not above that law. And changing it means becoming an apa-sampradaya.

 

Of course you disregard all the other perfectly reasonable rebuttals to your so called evidence that the Ritvik order is apa-Sampradaya and focus on this one letter to a person who Srila Prabhupada himself told he should leave Iskcon and do his own thing because that was what he wanted.

 

Tusta was already a caste Diksa envy guru wannabee and was destined to learn the hard lumps of that path. Srila Prabhupada tried to steer him to the understanding he was just an envious neophyte conditioned soul guru-wannabee for many years, and at last fulfilled his desire as they parted ways.

 

A foreshadowing of your own delirious destiny perhaps.

 

If you want to be King Diksa Kula of Prabhupada Hill, best Ski-daddle back to Poland where your fellow Commies will embrace you to their Breasts with a Heil Kula. And don't let the doorknob stick you on the way out.

 

America's heart is already taken.

[Kulapavana]

 

Of course you disregard all the other perfectly reasonable rebuttals to your so called evidence that the Ritvik order is apa-Sampradaya and focus on this one letter to a person who Srila Prabhupada himself told he should leave Iskcon and do his own thing because that was what he wanted.

 

Which part of "This is the law of disciplic succession" you do not understand?

 

You break the law, you are an apa-sampradaya. Simple.

[andy108]

 

Which part of "This is the law of disciplic succession" you do not understand?

 

You break the law, you are an apa-sampradaya. Simple.

Nowhere in Srila Prabhupada's books does he mention this so called LAW OF Disciplic succession.

 

In a letter to Tusta, in order to keep him engaged as he is breaking away and going off on his own, he tells him one of the ettiquette laws of disciplic succession.

 

You are the one who, by implying this law must be held to at risk of creating an apa-sampradaya, indict Srila Prabhupada for breaking this law, for as we know he did not allow his disciples to accept disciples in his absence.

 

One's spiritual master could be alive (still appearing) but if he is absent for a long period, maybe even never to return to that region, it is not breaking ettiquette for one to accept disciples, even give Diksa, if qualified.

 

After the disappearance, the same is true.

 

 

"But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. (SPL Tusta Krsna, December 2, 1975)

 

However we know that a disciple is only qualified to give Diksa if he is authorized by ORDER of his Spiritual master.

 

So Srila Prabhupada, in keeping in harmony with the ESSENCE OR SPIRIT OF THE LAW, did as an Acarya is authorized to do and made a small change in formality, in which his disciples were authorized to give Diksa initiations only on his behalf, while simultaneously leaving behind the full spectrum of Vani they would require in order to accept these neophytes as disciples in the sense that the neophyte would need to follow the instructions of the senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada in order to make advancement.

 

In every way, these new Bhaktas are under the discipline of the Siksa Guru's Srila Prabhupada left behind.

 

The Siksa Guru is careful to instruct the new Bhakta in the system of Sadhana that SP left to perpetuate.

 

This system did not include claiming to be Diksa Guru of these neophytes, claiming to be able to absorb all their sins, even if technically able. This system did not include initiating and receiving the elaborate worship that Srila Prabhupada himself received as Diksa Guru.

 

Lest anyone claim I am envious, I am not saying that SP's Siksa Gurus would out of false humility reject being worshipped by those who rightfully adore them.

 

When the Siksa Guru comes to ones home, it is sweet and appropriate to garland him, and wash his feet.

 

But the thing SP sought to avoid was giving anyone the inkling that if they played their cards right, they would be sat on a Vyasasana everyday and given an elaborate Guru Puja. Especially in his temples.

 

I find the only people who fail to see these simple points and deride the Acarya's strategies on this matter are overly desirous of receiving adoration not commensurate with their position.

 

They claim that it is my envy that I just don't want to ever see another "living person" receive adoration. Until they hear my actual position as stated above.

[Kulapavana]

 

Nowhere in Srila Prabhupada's books does he mention this so called LAW OF Disciplic succession.

 

I'm asking you again: Are you saying this law does not exist and Prabhupada just made it up for Tusta? Lets be clear: This was always the Vedic practice adopted by our sampradaya since times immemorial. This is how Prabhupada himself started accepting disciples after his guru passed on. That was even before he became a sannyasi. Prabhupada can't change such a law without deviating from the sampradaya.

[Beggar]

Believe it or not I think that the system laid out in post #27 could have been implemented within the Iskcon institution beginning in 1978. If other senior persons wanted to take disciples, then they could have gone outside the Iskcon institution. Another possibility for the GBC of the time was to have had the 11 initiate on Srila Prabhupada's behalf in his temples and start their own temples where they could be seen as a full guru if that is what they wanted. And I'm not saying that they were really qualified either. But the cat got out of the bag some 31 years ago. What's the use of telling someone that their grandparents had an illicit, bogus marriage? If you really look closely the whole issue calls into question Westerners becoming brahmanas, sanyassis, rtivks and gurus. Does anyone think that the disciples of H.H. Gour Govinda Maharaja will entertain the idea that he was not a full guru?

[Sonic Yogi]

 

<table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">Public Declaration</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td>by Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaj

[from a recording on Gaura Purnima, 26th March, 1986]

According to the desire of my Divine Master, I have been maintaining this Disciplic Succession but it is no longer possible for me, as I am now too old and an invalid. You all know from long ago I have chosen Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj and I have given him sannyasa. All my Vaishnava Godbrothers are very affectionate towards him and it is also their desire to give him this position. I have previously given to him the charge of the Math and now I am giving him the full responsibility of giving Harinam, diksha, sannyasa, etc., as an Acharya of this Math on behalf of myself.

Those who have any regard for me should give this respect and position to Govinda Maharaj as my successor. As much as you have faith in my sincerity, then with all sincerity I believe that he has got the capacity of rendering service in this way. With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik. The ritvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The ritvik is the representative. So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands, then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.

In the Mahamandala, Sagar Maharaj and many others are also ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself. They may do so, but in this Math and in any Math under this Math, he will be the representative. If anyone cannot accept this, he may leave the Math rather than stay here and disturb the peace of the Math. With all my sincerity and good feelings to Guru-Gauranga, to the Vaishnavas and the Acharyas, Mahaprabhu, Pancha-Tattva, Radha-Govinda and Their Parshadas, with all my sincere prayers to Them, henceforth he will represent me in this affair beginning from today's function.

Now I shall go from here and he will do the necessary. On my behalf, he will give Harinama, diksha, sannyasa, and everything.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

Sridhar Maharaja referred to Sagar Maharaja and "many others" as ritviks of Srila Prabhupada some nine years after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

[andy108]

 

I'm asking you again: Are you saying this law does not exist and Prabhupada just made it up for Tusta? Lets be clear: This was always the Vedic practice adopted by our sampradaya since times immemorial. This is how Prabhupada himself started accepting disciples after his guru passed on. That was even before he became a sannyasi. Prabhupada can't change such a law without deviating from the sampradaya.

 

As we both know, the concept of Disciplic Succession had many aspects to it.

 

Why are you focusing on the word Law and not on the word ettiquette?

 

What part of the fact that Acaryas receive divine authorization to make small changes in Forms, aka ettiquettes, aka laws as long as they do not prevent the essence from being injured, which is the only reason FOR A LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

I know Poland was a backwards ass communist neo-Mongol Gulag, so your ignorance is understandable. But here in America, we have long understood the difference between the COLOR OF LAW, and the SPIRIT OF LAW.

 

And we did not need to read about Vedic Culture from a Gaudiya Acarya to understand this distinction.

 

Anyway, the law is the law. Srila Prabhupada did nothing to break the law. The law of disciplic succession DOES NOT STATE THAT ONE MUST NOT GIVE DIKSA ON BEHALF OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IN HIS ABSENCE, LEST THE ESSENCE NOT BE PASSED ON.

 

Siksa is the essence. Diksa initiation is the Formality. The Essence or True Diksa is received through hearing the mantra submissively. Submission is indicated by accepting instruction. Participating in the Diksa ceremony often comes after the fact of True Diksa and is certainly not necessary for disciplic succession to occur.

[andy108]

 

Believe it or not I think that the system laid out in post #27 could have been implemented within the Iskcon institution beginning in 1978. If other senior persons wanted to take disciples, then they could have gone outside the Iskcon institution. Another possibility for the GBC of the time was to have had the 11 initiate on Srila Prabhupada's behalf in his temples and start their own temples where they could be seen as a full guru if that is what they wanted. And I'm not saying that they were really qualified either. But the cat got out of the bag some 31 years ago. What's the use of telling someone that their grandparents had an illicit, bogus marriage? If you really look closely the whole issue calls into question Westerners becoming brahmanas, sanyassis, rtivks and gurus. Does anyone think that the disciples of H.H. Gour Govinda Maharaja will entertain the idea that he was not a full guru?

 

I have been proclaiming this for over 5 years. All I had to do was read about the history, and read what Srila Prabhupada said, and it made perfect common sense.

 

I just practice debate and keep sharp with the philosophy by defeating detractors of Srila Prabhupada's system whenever I have the spare time.

 

I don't expect they will change. Some might see the light. Who knows?

 

I have been slowly and gradually working with a few others to come together and start a small temple, dedicated to Sri Panca Tattva, Sri Sri Gaura Nitai, and the past Acaryas, and it will be a Ritvik temple with lots of nice Siksa Gurus in training, and the rest of the world can do whatever they want. And expect to hear about if they rub it in my face.

[AncientMariner]

I have always respected Kulapavana's knowledge. He is no dummy just because he is Polish but I always find it strange when he advocates people being initiated by living gurus and the living guru he was initiated by ran off with a massage therapist and stole millions from Iskcon but everything is A-Ok in regards to his initiation because at the time he was intiated everyone according to Kulapavana agrees that his guru was acting as a bonafide acarya even though his guru eventually fell down.

 

That is all well and good and to be expected in Kali-yuga I just don't understand when Kulapava gets into his heavy handed authoritarian mode in trying to dictate how other people should be intiated especially given the dubious circumstances of his own initiation.

[Sonic Yogi]

Disciplic succession in the Gaudiya sampradaya has never been about a horde of neophytes all playing guru after the passing of the spiritual master.

 

Traditionally, the seniormost respected Vaishnava is expected to assume the post of successor acharya.

 

It's not that every so-called disciple of an acharya automatically get to become guru after the acharya passes away.

 

ISKCON certainly does not reflect the history and tradition of the Gaudiya sampradaya.

It is a totally modern fabricated free-for-all triggered by the passing of the acharya.

 

Certainly, the idea of a GBC administrating over a class of gurus in a devotee community is a totally modern concept that was fabricated in ISKCON in the aftermath of the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada never breathed a word about the GBC governing a class of gurus in ISKCON.

None of the senior men were about to bring up the issue before the passing of Srila Prabhupada as it was universally accepted in ISKCON in the last days that the ritvik system was expected to continue.

 

If not, then surely somebody would have asked Srila Prabhupada how the GBC would deal with gurus and acharyas within the rank and file.

 

Nobody was about to ask about that and get blasted by Srila Prabhupada.

[AncientMariner]

 

I have been proclaiming this for over 5 years. All I had to do was read about the history, and read what Srila Prabhupada said, and it made perfect common sense.

 

I just practice debate and keep sharp with the philosophy by defeating detractors of Srila Prabhupada's system whenever I have the spare time.

 

I don't expect they will change. Some might see the light. Who knows?

 

I have been slowly and gradually working with a few others to come together and start a small temple, dedicated to Sri Panca Tattva, Sri Sri Gaura Nitai, and the past Acaryas, and it will be a Ritvik temple with lots of nice Siksa Gurus in training, and the rest of the world can do whatever they want. And expect to hear about if they rub it in my face.

 

 

Don't give up. I read on another forum that the Krishna temple in Bangalore that is ritvik feeds over 800,000 children a day. I personally have always had high respect for the ritviks because Prabhupada remains in the center in that system which to me shows respect for Prabhupada and Prabhupada is worthy of the highest respect from my viewpoint. Whichever side is correct in this endless debate I do not know. I have listened to both sides and seen good points made by both but hopefully it all works out in the end.

[Kulapavana]

 

... I always find it strange when he advocates people being initiated by living gurus and the living guru he was initiated by ran off with a massage therapist and stole millions from Iskcon...

 

Just because the abuse of the position happens now and then that does not mean that a system which was always in place must be changed.

 

Btw... I never felt that I was in any way disadvantaged by the turn of events. I have learned A LOT from that experience.

[AncientMariner]

 

Just because the abuse of the position happens now and then that does not mean that a system which was always in place must be changed.

 

Btw... I never felt that I was in any way disadvantaged by the turn of events. I have learned A LOT from that experience.

 

 

I don't bring it up to begrudge you. It is good to learn from such experiences.

 

I just don't buy it when you mock the ritviks and call them bogus. How are you any more legitimately connected to the parampara than they are considering the circumstances of your guru? By saying the guru is a position it seems you are saying a guru is some kind of mundane abusable government positon that is appointed by committee and I was under the impression that acaryas are self effulgent. That is all I am saying. Not trying to take sides. Best of luck to you.