Devotee Etiquette

[Kulapavana]

 

Devotee Etiquette

 

BY: SWARUP DAS

 

 

Feb 24, CORRALITOS, CALIFORNIA (SUN) —

I find it ironic, if not comical, the way “devotees” often communicate with each other - especially when posting on Internet forums such as this. I’ll give an example:

• 
  
  
  My Dear XXXXX Prabhu,
  
  
  
  Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga.
  
  
  
  You are an ignorant fool, an offensive demon, a liar and a cheater, and I am convinced that it is your karma to suffer in hell forever and ever.
  
  
  
  I hope this finds you well.
  
  
  Your humble servant,
  
  
  XXXXXX Das
  
  

 

 

So is this format, which I observe over and over, day after day, the Vedic equivalent of politically correct?

 

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4097.htm

 

----------------------

 

 

 

Our discussions here have become mostly just quarrels and I find myself spending a lot of time on such unproductive exchanges, probably even provoking many of them. I apologize for that. Perhaps it is time to move on for me. Dandavat pranams to you all.

[suchandra]

 

Devotee Etiquette

 

BY: SWARUP DAS

 

 

Feb 24, CORRALITOS, CALIFORNIA (SUN) —

I find it ironic, if not comical, the way “devotees” often communicate with each other - especially when posting on Internet forums such as this. I’ll give an example:

• My Dear XXXXX Prabhu,
  
  
  
  Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga.
  
  
  
  You are an ignorant fool, an offensive demon, a liar and a cheater, and I am convinced that it is your karma to suffer in hell forever and ever.
  
  
  
  I hope this finds you well.
  
  
  Your humble servant,
  
  
  XXXXXX Das

 

So is this format, which I observe over and over, day after day, the Vedic equivalent of politically correct?

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4097.htm

 

----------------------

 

 

 

Our discussions here have become mostly just quarrels and I find myself spending a lot of time on such unproductive exchanges, probably even provoking many of them. I apologize for that. Perhaps it is time to move on for me. Dandavat pranams to you all.

 

This goes conform with a global trend to gradually shut down or block the internet because some people find that information and communication has to be kept under tight control.

 

China tops world in censuring religious websites

Access to AsiaNews also blocked

 

Oslo (AsiaNews) China has set up the "most extensive and expensive censorship of any other country in the world" targeting foreign-based religious-oriented websites, this according to Forum 18, a Norwegian-based online Christian News Service which conducted a two-month survey of Chinese government's internet monitoring. Its findings show that Chinese authorities have placed a tight lid on sites which focus on Christian groups and other minorities persecuted in China because they are deemed a threat to the country's political and social stability and territorial integrity.

The survey was conducted from mid-May to mid-July including the key date of June 4, 15th anniversary of the Tianamen massacre. It entailed checking internet access in different locations within China. It showed that China's Golden Shield Firewall prevented survey participants from accessing sites that dealt with the persecution of Catholics and Protestants, the Dalai Lama, the Falun Gong religious movement, and the Muslim Uygurs of Xinjiang.

Here are some sites blocked because they expose persecutions against Christians in general and Catholics in particular. First of all,

● AsiaNews (whose blocking had already been reported);

some US-based websites such as

● Free Church for China,

● Free the Fathers (which focuses on the conditions of Catholic clergymen who refused to register with the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association),

● China Aid Association, (which reports on the repression of local Protestant churches),

● and the Committee for the Investigation of Persecution of Religious in China (mostly in Chinese and English).

The survey also showed that it was also impossible to consult the site of the Taiwan-based Society of the Divine Word (Verbites) or that of the Hong Kong Diocese. Sources indicate that this last site was blocked as soon as relations between Hong Kong's Bishop Joseph Zen Ze-kiun and the Chinese government started deteriorating.

Many other sites have been blocked because they report acts of persecution against other religious movements or groups; among them, those of Falung Gong:

● www.falundafa.org,

● www.faluninfo.net,

● www.falunjustice.org;

those directly or indirectly linked to the Dalai Lama:

● www.dalailama.com,

● www.dalailama.org(this is a commercial site that has no connection to Tibet's spiritual leader);

those linked to Hizb-ut-Tahrir (Liberation Party), an Islamist political movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the caliphate on the whole world:

● www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org,

● www.khilafah.com,

● www.khilafah.com.pk.

The authorities have also blocked search engines like Google and web portals like to avoid unwelcome fact finding and information gathering in English or Chinese.

The survey did find that access to apparently unthreatening religious-oriented or Catholic sites was possible. Among the latter:

● the site of the Vatican,

● the Vatican agency (which authorities had blocked in 1998 when it launched its Chinese version arguing that it was "interfering in the internal affairs, religious affairs included, of China"),

● the Chinese-language service of ,

● Taiwan-based Radio Veritas.

Despite the censorship, it is possible to visit sites that present the Holy Scriptures or sacred texts of different religions, those that speak positively of the status of religion in China, and those that expose religious persecution in other countries.

None the less, the Chinese authorities have pushed web censorship a step further by launching in June a campaign urging netizens to turn cybersnitches and report "unlawful" websites to a sponsored by the Internet News and Information Service Working Committee of the China Internet Association. Would-be cybersnitches are asked to give their names and address and indicate the type of content violation choosing from a list of offences that includes

● promoting cults,

● violating constitutional principles,

● attacking the Communist Party and the government,

● flouting social morality.

Internet censorship is part and parcel of the government's policy to keep information and communication media under its tight control and for this reason the authorities have more recently sounded the alarm against "subversive" cellphone SMS (Short Messaging Service) messages. (ThR)

[gHari]

Then we got:

 

^&%^ &^% #@$ &(* @!$#, you %$#$#((!

 

Cheers

[suchandra]

 

Then we got:

 

^&%^ &^% #@$ &(* @!$#, you %$#$#((!

 

Cheers

 

I know many devotees who have no or little relation to the internet. This doesn't have anything to do with what is published on the internet, it is rather the very fact that some people just seem to have an animosity with modern technology.

 

As soon they start reading things on the internet this animosity is always integrated. This leads to that point that they don't want to get involved and thus it is clear that there is no complete overview about what devotees are communicating past 10 years.

 

They pick up fragmentary content and conclude from this platform. So it should be pointed out that without having a total overview about the ongoing reporting of Vaishnava news, people shouldn't come up with appraisals like above, "especially when posting on Internet forums such as this".

 

Clearly a person who hates the internet in itself. Not that he cannot hate the internet, but he shouldnt comment or criticize since he has no complete overview.

[Sonic Yogi]

The Sampradaya Sun is a forum in the format of a news website.

 

These guys are battling back and forth like each one is news or something.

 

I don't know why they just didn't incorporate a comment function on each article instead of posting one reply after another in the form of a news article.

 

It's does get old.

 

I go there for news from around the KC movement and get mostly just forum debating going on in the guise of news articles.

 

I think the Sun should be for news and debating should be for forums.

 

All the petty political wrangling gets real old.

 

I like to debate the siddhanta, but all that political turmoil is just a waste of time.

 

All the whiners get their 5 minutes of fame on the Sun.

 

I guess if it were not for bad news the Sun would not have any news at all?

[suchandra]

 

The Sampradaya Sun is a forum in the format of a news website.

 

These guys are battling back and forth like each one is news or something.

 

I don't know why they just didn't incorporate a comment function on each article instead of posting one reply after another in the form of a news article.

 

It's does get old.

 

I go there for news from around the KC movement and get mostly just forum debating going on in the guise of news articles.

 

I think the Sun should be for news and debating should be for forums.

 

All the petty political wrangling gets real old.

 

I like to debate the siddhanta, but all that political turmoil is just a waste of time.

 

All the whiners get their 5 minutes of fame on the Sun.

 

I guess if it were not for bad news the Sun would not have any news at all?

 

What people like Kulapavana and the sampradaya sun want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Prabhupada as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, ritvik poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon. But writing articles about "Devotee Etiquette".

[bhaktatraveler]

 

What people like Kulapavana and the sampradaya sun want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Prabhupada as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, ritvik poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon. But writing articles about "Devotee Etiquette".

 

Very well said!

 

RCB

[Beggar]

 

What people like Kulapavana and the sampradaya sun want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Prabhupada as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, ritvik poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon. But writing articles about "Devotee Etiquette".

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, ritvik poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

 

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, ritvik poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila Prabhupada's qualified disciples as acaryas under Prabhupada's GBC and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, bogus poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila Narayana Maharaja as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, bogus poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila Govinda Maharaja as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, bogus poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila Puri Maharaja as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, bogus poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

 

What people like ____ and the ______ want to incite is that Western Vaishnavism is splitting into many fractions and become meaningless, thats all. Therefore they teach everyone should be guru, to be guru is also for neophytes, everything cheap, everybody acarya. To totally bring down Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement and destroy it in the name of defending it, that is their ambition. If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Srila ____ as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, bogus poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon.

[bhaktajan]

Just the pearls of Wisdom, mame.

 

 

The way I see it is:

 

Someone posts a picture of the present day Bhavananda Goswami as he is today . . .

and thus,

for one who has vision & knowledge,

will undoubtedly think

upon seeing said picture,

 

"Ugh! Why does some one post this?

What was the uploader thinking?"

 

--this is what Kulapavana may have meant by his misgivings:

he may have been encouraging dolts to show

long lost dirty laundry that belongs to

someother individual(s) as if it was our own too.

 

remember what your mother said [if you were so karmically gifted to have one],

keep your nose clean.

[Narasingh]

 

Devotee Etiquette

 

BY: SWARUP DAS

 

 

Feb 24, CORRALITOS, CALIFORNIA (SUN) —

I find it ironic, if not comical, the way “devotees” often communicate with each other - especially when posting on Internet forums such as this. I’ll give an example:

• My Dear XXXXX Prabhu,
  
  
  
  Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga.
  
  
  
  You are an ignorant fool, an offensive demon, a liar and a cheater, and I am convinced that it is your karma to suffer in hell forever and ever.
  
  
  
  I hope this finds you well.
  
  
  Your humble servant,
  
  
  XXXXXX Das

 

So is this format, which I observe over and over, day after day, the Vedic equivalent of politically correct?

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4097.htm

 

----------------------

 

 

 

Our discussions here have become mostly just quarrels and I find myself spending a lot of time on such unproductive exchanges, probably even provoking many of them. I apologize for that. Perhaps it is time to move on for me. Dandavat pranams to you all.

I'm sorry but I found this very humorous.

Also @ Beggar, you posted critical insight with your alterations of Suchandra's post. This type on insight encourages critical thinking which only serves to forge a stronger soul. Thank you for that

[Sonic Yogi]

 

If anyone says, now just imagine the combined power of a global Vaishnava movement with Prabhupada as acarya and all affectionate Godbrothers, they immediately say, ritvik poison. They tell you directly, you're a demon. But writing articles about "Devotee Etiquette".

 

That is exactly the point behind ritvik and why Srila Prabhupada installed it in ISKCON.

The ritvik system would have kept ISKCON one big family instead of a hundred factions splintering behind a horde of neophyte gurus.

 

In the name of tradition they have destroyed ISKCON and the lives of thousands of devotees.

[AncientMariner]

 

That is exactly the point behind ritvik and why Srila Prabhupada installed it in ISKCON.

The ritvik system would have kept ISKCON one big family instead of a hundred factions splintering behind a horde of neophyte gurus.

 

In the name of tradition they have destroyed ISKCON and the lives of thousands of devotees.

 

 

 

I have always thought that at least it would have been simpler method, there may still have been abuses in that system but at the end of the day Prabhupada would have been the center so the devotee would always feel the option of returning to Prabhuapda, wheras the beggars and Kulapavanas of the world seem to imply that anyone who wants to take shelter of Prabhuapda and not be pressured into surrendering to the latest living guru are all bogus etc.. I know for me personally I have never found any attraction to Iskcon when the predominating philosophy is you have to find the latest greatest living guru or you are basically going to burn in hell.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

I have always thought that at least it would have been simpler method, there may still have been abuses in that system but at the end of the day Prabhupada would have been the center so the devotee would always feel the option of returning to Prabhuapda, wheras the beggars and Kulapavanas of the world seem to imply that anyone who wants to take shelter of Prabhuapda and not be pressured into surrendering to the latest living guru are all bogus etc.. I know for me personally I have never found any attraction to Iskcon when the predominating philosophy is you have to find the latest greatest living guru or you are basically going to burn in hell.

 

Some of the groupies of Narayana Maharaja think he should have been the successor to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I don't agree, but that probably would have turned out a lot better than the guru-mania that has turned ISKCON into a laughing stock.

[AncientMariner]

 

That is exactly the point behind ritvik and why Srila Prabhupada installed it in ISKCON.

The ritvik system would have kept ISKCON one big family instead of a hundred factions splintering behind a horde of neophyte gurus.

 

In the name of tradition they have destroyed ISKCON and the lives of thousands of devotees.

 

 

It has always seemed to me Iskcon would have had a better chance if it hadn't gotten into this mode where you are pressured to surrender to the latest and greatest living guru and people that want to take shelter of Prabhupada are ostrasized and told that they are bogus. I personally have never had any attraction to Iskcon for this very reason. The so called advanced living guru advocates basically make fun of people that have strong affection for Prabhupada and label them as sentimentalists. Pretty sad deal all the way around.

[suchandra]

 

That is exactly the point behind ritvik and why Srila Prabhupada installed it in ISKCON.

The ritvik system would have kept ISKCON one big family instead of a hundred factions splintering behind a horde of neophyte gurus.

 

In the name of tradition they have destroyed ISKCON and the lives of thousands of devotees.

I saw this many times that disciples of different gurus they cannot manage to work cooperatively. As soon you have within a temple/community disciples of different gurus they formate groups, excluding others. This went so far that those disciples who felt being in minority finally moved to another temple where more disciples of their guru were living. So instead of fighting to maintain local devotees and look for their well-being they felt mobbed and had to move to another temple. But when they moved to another temple the problem was also not solved since they felt pushed, didnt come there out of their own accord.

Now, one may ask this question, aren't Vaishnavas supposed to get off the bodily platform and become situated on the brahma-bhuta platform?

In sum, what we have here, Vaishnavas are so rare, this system of creating different mathas within a Vaishnava institution causes chaos.

A spiritual master with his disciples is one matha, you cannot have many mathas within the same building, this is common sense. In Mayapur/Vrindavan you won't find any mathas with many gurus.

But this is exactly what ISKCON became, a matha with 200 gurus.

[Beggar]

 

That is exactly the point behind ritvik and why Srila Prabhupada installed it in ISKCON.

The ritvik system would have kept ISKCON one big family instead of a hundred factions splintering behind a horde of neophyte gurus.

 

In the name of tradition they have destroyed ISKCON and the lives of thousands of devotees.

 

For Iskcon I accept Prabhupada's rtvik system. It should have been put in place in early '78 instead of the Zonal nightmare. But there will be diversity and there is diversity, and somehow the madness of the Zonal nightmare helped created that diversity. What if the GBC even in a rtvik system voted in some apasiddhanta on the origin of the jiva? Would have that contributed to making Iskcon one big happy family? There were many things that could have and did go wrong post-1977, much do to the lack of elders in the society. Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers often based on some of his own statements were considered bad, bad and more bad. There was so much negative opinion and gernerally it was not counteracted by the statement by Srila Prabhupada that he saw Srila Sridhar Maharaja as his siksa guru. So when the GBC went and lied about Zonalism and then Jayatirthas psychedelic folly ensued, only a few could see through the smoke screen. Then the GBC's campaign against Srila Sridhar Maharaja began as those few were considered a real threat to the Zonals. A chance for true elder guidance, transcendental guidance at that, and the chance wasted.

[bhaktajan]

Some say, while others . . .

"I personally have never had any attraction to Iskcon for this very reason. . . . advocates basically make fun of people that have strong affection for Prabhupada and label them as sentimentalists. . . .

 

Pretty sad deal all the way around."

 

[bhaktajan]