The objective of Buddhism and Hinduism

[Smiley]

The excerpts below are from an article that my oldest brother - an elder in the 7th Day Adventist Church has entreated me to read. He knows that I have been an observant Hindu since 2001 but he has made it clear to me that he agrees with the article in its entirety. He has made statements similar to those in the article over the years. I would appreciate it if someone would like to provide a refutation to this article and I will forward the link of this thread to him. Thank you.

 

 

In Hinduism, the Self is also referred to as the

Brahman. In Buddhism, it is said to be Nirvana.

Every thought, muscle movement, and breath you take

in a yoga class or exercise is designed to bring you

under the influence of some heathen god. But the

gurus do not explain that to all their pupils.

 

Actually, there are no real heathen gods; they do

not exist. The yogi, on whatever level he may be, is

really being brought into subjection to demonic spirits.

 

Mantras are secret words

or short phrases which are supposed to invoke reception

of ancient gods, while protecting one from

demons. In reality, they do the opposite of providing

protection! They invite demons to take control of the

mind.

 

EFFECT ON THE YOGA CULTURES

The objective of Buddhism and Hinduism is to

destroy personality and all the special characteristics

which make us human. This includes compassion

and care for people. In those Buddhist and Hindu

cultures, not influenced by the Western (Judeo-Christian)

world, there is no interest in building hospitals,

schools, or orphanages. There is no basis for morality.

There is also no science or technology. In Hinduism,

the physical material world is viewed as an illusion

(maya). The religious leaders (a Hindu swami

or Buddhist monk) in India or Southeast Asia do

nothing for people, but just beg for food while renouncing

the world. Human life is not valued.

Only the Bible and Jesus Christ can solve the

problems of mankind. The invasion of Eastern religions

into the West has the effect of tearing down the

moral fabric of society. It stifles the conscience, and

every sense of right and wrong, and leads to pleasure

seeking and crime.

Warn everyone who is thinking of dabbling in this

dangerous practice. Yoga may be presented as something

very attractive and inviting. But, as we have discovered,

at the very least, it will weaken your willpower

and personality. If you continue it long enough,

it will ruin your life. —vf

full article:

http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-U-Z/Yoga.pdf

[primate]

Well, as far as Hinduism, bhakti yoga and Krishnaism are concerned; to call Krishna 'satanic' is absurd. As any student of Hinduism knows, Krishna is famous as the slayer of demons (Bhagavad-Gita 4.7-8). The Bhagavad Gita teaches love and devotional service for the one supreme personal God. Such devotional service is also a central theme of Christianity. Seventh-day Adventists strongly believe in the second coming of Christ. I’m quite sure they wouldn’t even notice if He actually will be an incarnation of Krishna.

 

Buddhists don’t believe in God or demons. And to suggest that the Buddhist’s nirvana is actually a demonic state of being, is absurd. You will have to refute most knowledge in the Vedic system of yoga in order to sustain such a claim. Moreover, many of the basic concepts of yoga are indistinguishable from Christian values.

 

Finally, the article suggests that transcendental meditation and/or the chanting of mantras is a dangerous activity because apparently a scientific study has indicated serious health risks. Reportedly, in 76% of the cases, psychological disorders and illnesses occurred. 43% of participants had psychiatric treatment or had to have medical treatment during the TM phase, as against 13% who reported an increased capacity to function in their life. In fact, the only significant figure here is the 13% who reported an increased capacity to function! The others were most likely people that were drawn towards yoga and TM to be cured of already manifest mental and physical illnesses. The study didn’t measure - and correct for this variable at all.

[Sonic Yogi]

I would suggest you just ignore and avoid these Christian bigots.

You cannot open their eyes, inform them, educate them or help them understand.

 

They are the demons and you should just avoid them and not waste any time or energy arguing or debating with them.

 

Spend your time helping the innocent and sincere.

Don't waste your time on these demons in the guise of religionists.

 

They are meat-eating melecchas with no sympathy for innocent creatures.

 

Avoid them like a plague and spend your energy getting some KC books into the hands of open-minded people.

[Smiley]

My oldest brother is a vegetarian but I will take your advice and try to limit my contact with him. I was very offended by him sending me the article and then saying that he agrees with it and quite frankly I don't want to hear his voice for awhile. However maybe there is a lesson for me in that the Pandavas tried very hard to respect their oldest brother even after he behaved despicably by selling Draupadi - a devote of Sri Krishna - into captivity and then sitting still while the miscreants tried to disrobe her in an open assembly. Of course what the Kauravas did was far worse since they knew who Draupadi was.

 

 

I would suggest you just ignore and avoid these Christian bigots.

You cannot open their eyes, inform them, educate them or help them understand.

 

They are the demons and you should just avoid them and not waste any time or energy arguing or debating with them.

 

Spend your time helping the innocent and sincere.

Don't waste your time on these demons in the guise of religionists.

 

They are meat-eating melecchas with no sympathy for innocent creatures.

 

Avoid them like a plague and spend your energy getting some KC books into the hands of open-minded people.

[Haridasdasdas]

:rofl::D:D

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

What the hell was that article? He 'agrees with it'? What does he know? Someone thinks for themselves and now they're demonicly possessed? Why doesn't he just go back to the middle ages already.

 

That has to be the stupidest piece of hillbilly excretion I have ever read. America is doomed. I'm not going to refute it, because there is nothing to refute, its just silly childishness(unlike my long laughter and collection of smileys above).

 

Edit: I've never actually heard of people using mantras to ask Devas to enter their body. I think that's made up.

[Kali_Upasaka]

I read the entire article. Interesting. Some glaring/amusing blunders like confusing Pathanjali Maharishi with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi whom the TM people refer to.

 

The implications and also how the practice of Yoga could go wrong is real. Many Yoga practitioners in the West especially Kundalini Yoga have come to grief. These effects are now recognized by the medical profession. Sadly a raised uncontrolled Kundalini is difficult to cure.

 

The article attributes all these to the possession of demons.

 

The only way to counter this (I wonder whether anyone is listening) is to point out that Yoga does recognize how things could go wrong. That is why the emphasis on a proper Guru. The guidance of a proper Guru is absolutely necessary. Learning certain Yoga techniques through books and Mantras over the internet forums is dangerous.

 

Christianity's obsession with the Devil is well known. Anything going wrong is attributed to the Devil.

 

A brother is a brother. A sibling. He may think differently from you. That does not mean he ceases to be your sibling. If you understand Krishna well, you should spread the message of Love. Love even your enemies.

 

Krishna! Hridhyakamalavasa!

[Durgaputra]

Here is some more stuff I hope you will find useful:

 

The good thing about Hinduism and Buddhism is that we think that even people who write such tripe are not eternally doomed and sooner or later- in one lifetime or the other, through grace( which is as available to them as to the believer), they will realise the truth.

 

Hinduism and Buddhism are experential religions- there are books and books and schools and schools of theory, but a true aspirant wants to experience- not to merely immerse himself or herself in theoretical concepts.

[Smiley]

 

A brother is a brother. A sibling. He may think differently from you. That does not mean he ceases to be your sibling. If you understand Krishna well, you should spread the message of Love. Love even your enemies.

 

He means well and wishes me well according to his own way of thinking (I am sure he would give me the shirt off his back if I asked) so I don't consider him my enemy. However the SDA church (of which he is an integral part) along with other missionary churches which share Pope John Paul II's stated desire to "win India for Christ" have made themselves enemies of Sanatana Dharma (by seeking its destruction); therefore I have some cognitive dissonance about all this.

 

 

I read the entire article. Interesting. Some glaring/amusing blunders like confusing Pathanjali Maharishi with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi whom the TM people refer to.

 

The implications and also how the practice of Yoga could go wrong is real. Many Yoga practitioners in the West especially Kundalini Yoga have come to grief. These effects are now recognized by the medical profession. Sadly a raised uncontrolled Kundalini is difficult to cure.

 

The article attributes all these to the possession of demons.

 

The only way to counter this (I wonder whether anyone is listening) is to point out that Yoga does recognize how things could go wrong. That is why the emphasis on a proper Guru. The guidance of a proper Guru is absolutely necessary. Learning certain Yoga techniques through books and Mantras over the internet forums is dangerous.

 

Christianity's obsession with the Devil is well known. Anything going wrong is attributed to the Devil.

 

A brother is a brother. A sibling. He may think differently from you. That does not mean he ceases to be your sibling. If you understand Krishna well, you should spread the message of Love. Love even your enemies.

 

Krishna! Hridhyakamalavasa!

[jeffster]

Hello Smiley,

Yes, it sounds like your brother has been brainwashed by the SDA, which has:

1.) misconceptions about Hinduism & Buddhism which are not likely not innocent, but contrived.

2.) SDA, by ascribing "demonism" to Hinduism and Buddhism, is purposefully attempting to demean them in order to make their own teachings look superior. Actually, when things are done with ill motives, paradoxically, the opposite occurs; that is, SDA actually becomes demonic themselves.

However, he is your brother, and you therefore have a good preaching field. If your brother is at all sincere and open to the truth, you may be able to convince him that he is being misled by his church and you may be able to teach him the truth of Sanatana Dharma.

jeffster/AMd

You could also change SDA to "Sanatana Dharma Association."

[Narasingh]

Edit: I've never actually heard of people using mantras to ask Devas to enter their body. I think that's made up.

Even if there were people who do that, isn't that akin to "getting the Holy Ghost"?

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Even if there were people who do that, isn't that akin to "getting the Holy Ghost"?

 

Good point. Still, I have no idea where they got that from. Also 'Om Tat SAt' has nothing to do with Hanuman.

[Soma Juice]

I say take the discussion up! Educate him! i couldnt stand if my brother was so ignorant.

 

The points he raises is easy to shot down.

Show him how developed and compasionate the old vedic civilization was and show him how yoga and mantras are benificial.. i think there is a lot of evidence out there to prove both even scientific.

And maybe tell him about the nature of god.. but i dont know your brother or how he would take stuff like that.

[Narasingh]

Yes Soma, hopefully it is mis-education or lack of education rather than ignorance.

[gHari]

These words are so opposite to the reality I see:

 

 

 

"The invasion of Eastern religions

 

into the West has the effect of tearing down the

 

moral fabric of society. It stifles the conscience, and

 

every sense of right and wrong, and leads to pleasure

 

seeking and crime."

 

 

The 'moral fabric' had been destroyed long before sanatana-dharma arrived in the west. The only thing that can save this hell in the West is true religion, not the sentimental silliness that pervades religions of today. The people who write these tracts have no idea what they are talking about - they pretend a few words or concepts and then invent from there. The Presbyterian Church had a similar pamplet of carp, written by a psychologist of all people. These people don't even know their own religion.

 

Leave them to their sentimentalism - they aren't ready for real religion. It gets in their way.

[Narasingh]

Realities are based upon subjective experiences. While they may view eastern philosophies as a threat to the structure of a society they wish to build (perhaps rightfully so), a student of eastern philosophy may view their structure as flawed. I believe the best way for Smiley to resolve (if this is the intention) the conflict with his/her brother is to objectively represent the ideals and goals of the particular Eastern philosophy Smiley s to. Draw the line between the two points for your brother.

[Narasingh]

 

In Hinduism, the Self is also referred to as the

Brahman. In Buddhism, it is said to be Nirvana.

Every thought, muscle movement, and breath you take

in a yoga class or exercise is designed to bring you

under the influence of some heathen god. But the

gurus do not explain that to all their pupils.

 

Actually, there are no real heathen gods; they do

not exist. The yogi, on whatever level he may be, is

really being brought into subjection to demonic spirits.

In Hinduism, the Self is referred to Brahman.

In Hinduism, the Self is referred to Brahman. (Where is the problem here? After all, "A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet".)

 

 

In Buddhism, it is said to be Nirvana.

In Buddhism, the "attainment" is Nirvana (a state of being). Buddhism is represented wrongly here.

 

 

Every thought, muscle movement, and breath you take in yoga class or exercise is designed to bring you under the influence of some heathen god. But the gurus do not explain that to all their pupils. Actually, there are no real heathen gods; they do not exist.

 

There are no real heathen gods. Both Buddhism and Hinduism agree to this as well. Eastern philosophies are based on consciousness and the stages of it. When a yogi celebrates the vital airs of his/her body by giving them a deity, it is because of the characteristics of the vital airs, their functions. In Aryan (Hindu) theology, if something functions, it is invested with consciousness, thereby character, thereby personality.

 

It is just as if we see a lifeless corpse of a complete stranger it is strictly objective (we only see a corpse), however, if the lifeless corpse is one with whom we are intimately connected, there will be a disconnect between who they are and what their body is. We say, "They have left our presence", or "They have gone to heaven". The body is buried 6 ft under or reduced to ashes, yet we say they have gone to heaven.

 

Arya celebrates the function over the form. Form is understood to be a temporary adjustment, something to be shed after some time in order to accept another.

 

These "gods" can also be called characteristic improvements. The improvements are foreign to the body and upon "summoning" them by practice of yoga, ones health improves. While yoga is scientifically proven to improve biological health and calm mental stress, religious branches are more concerned when they hear the term "gods". It is a buzzword which raises a red flag. Christian religions, nay Abrahamic religions, condemn the idea of "lesser gods" and generally, once mentioned, the speaker is condemned along with the mention. However, again, "A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet."

 

 

The yogi, on whatever level he may be, is

really being brought into subjection to demonic spirits.

What is the function of these demonic spirits? Why are they necessarily demonic? This is simply a result of the Abrahamic "contempt" of "lesser gods". Aryan ideology strives to look for ways to respect the environment. It strives to encourage the person to understand their relationship with their environment. When a person realizes that their existence is constantly dependent on other forces (jivo jivasya jivanam) they realize their meagerness. In this way Aryan ideology suggests our humility in the face of the Creation of ParaBrahman.

[Kali_Upasaka]

I was wondering whether we could draft a reply answering point to point. Basically the attack is on Yoga, Kundalini Yoga and Mantra Meditation.

 

Now we all know that there are people who try to market Yoga with the promise of Instant Kundalini (whatever that means) and flying meditation. Trying to defend these people is not our job. In this forum there are people who are talking about Vashikarana Mantra for attracting girls. Is it Hinduism? Definitely not.

 

We may take the quotes in the document and explain in in terms of the Vaishnava concepts. I think we have a number of scholars in this forum who would be able to prepare a document countering these allegations and presenting the Vaishnava point of view. May be we could even put it up on some web site.

 

Request some brain storming on this idea.

 

BTW, I know that there are some flying Om Namah Sivayahs in this forum. They could present the Saivite point of view.

 

There is no Smarta point of view as Smartas are neither Vaishnavas nor Saivas. And I think Dharmasasthras are not of much help here.

[Narasingh]

Consider me on board!

[bhaktajan]

1) It's OK. Let them then do the fighting against the aggressors --while we make hay for . . . cows.

 

2) Where is the historical proofs? I could say, 'Let's examine the last 5,000 years'.

Nay, 'Let's examine the last 2,000 years'.

Nay, 'Let's examine the last 500 years'.

Nay, 'Let's examine the last 100 years'!!!!!!!!!!

 

So all the blood shed during the 20th Century was due to yoga principled principals acting insuch a way as to uplift mankind from the dull life of trinket-factory living!

 

Now, in 2009, that will finally change if we can all see what our great grand-fathers and their chidren were doing wrong all along--they out-ISKCON'd the world long before the yoga-elite wannabes formed the Flower-people movement of the 1960's.

 

There's a juggernaut coming to a town near you --weather, now or during your great-grandchildrens' time --tbd.

 

But we know the track record of our elders best judgement, as demon-

strated during the last century-- and IMO, it aint involved no yogi strategies nor efforts nor advice; aside from a chaplin's inspirations & closing eulogies.

[bhaktajan]

[This picture is of actress, Lady Judy Dench as Queen Victoria & the Scot Billy Connelly as her steward, in the movie titled "Mrs Brown"]

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Gallant Civilatry par excellance, now and in all works great and small.

[Smiley]

Over the years I have tried to objectively represent the ideals and goals of Sanatana Dharma in general. However there may be some interpersonal dynamic that gets in the way of clear thinking (my brother thinks very clearly on all but spiritual issues) so I will today refer him to this thread and perhaps hearing from others who are not his subordinate siblings will at least plant a seed in his mind that maybe Eastern religion was not devised by 'Satan' to trick people into damnation!

 

 

Realities are based upon subjective experiences. While they may view eastern philosophies as a threat to the structure of a society they wish to build (perhaps rightfully so), a student of eastern philosophy may view their structure as flawed. I believe the best way for Smiley to resolve (if this is the intention) the conflict with his/her brother is to objectively represent the ideals and goals of the particular Eastern philosophy Smiley s to. Draw the line between the two points for your brother.

[Narasingh]

I completely understand the interpersonal dynamics of sibling "rivalry" I might suggest that you start a new thread specifically targeting point by point discussions. Also, I suggest you be very diligent to flag-for-removal any posts which aren't specific or are of a less objective standpoint. Who is on board for this refutation!

[primate]

A point by point (sentence by sentence) refutation of this article may be a waste of time. It will suffice to refute its general point or thesis, which is the argument or suggestion that Buddhist Nirvana and/or Krishna consciousness and/or any form of spiritual or conscious enlightenment related to Hinduism or Vedic religious practices (yoga), are demonic states of being, caused by demon spirits that enter the body and the mind of the practitioner..

[Smiley]

I think the first item of inquiry should be the study itself that the article referenced. Here is the exact language of the article listed on the SDA site:

 

 

THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT STUDY

A major research study was made by the German

government in the late 1980s. It resulted in government

legislation, followed by an important Supreme

Court ruling in full support of the enactment.

This study, commissioned by the government’s

Ministry of Youth, Family and Health, focused primarily

on transcendental meditation . It exposed

the dangers inherent in all meditative practices of

this kind.

Yoga, and related Eastern religious practices, always

include TM in some form. This is because, as we

will learn below, it is the special meditative techniques

(which include breath control and mindlessly repeating

a mantra) which powerfully opens the mind to an

invasion of demons.

 

http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-U-Z/Yoga.pdf

Given the many factual misrepresentations and strident

tone of the author, I don't think it is reasonable to just

accept his representation of the study at face value.

 

I think this search string would be useful with different search engines:

 

germany, Ministry of Youth, Family and Health, study, TM

 

 

 

I was wondering whether we could draft a reply answering point to point. Basically the attack is on Yoga, Kundalini Yoga and Mantra Meditation.

 

Now we all know that there are people who try to market Yoga with the promise of Instant Kundalini (whatever that means) and flying meditation. Trying to defend these people is not our job. In this forum there are people who are talking about Vashikarana Mantra for attracting girls. Is it Hinduism? Definitely not.

 

We may take the quotes in the document and explain in in terms of the Vaishnava concepts. I think we have a number of scholars in this forum who would be able to prepare a document countering these allegations and presenting the Vaishnava point of view. May be we could even put it up on some web site.

 

Request some brain storming on this idea.

 

BTW, I know that there are some flying Om Namah Sivayahs in this forum. They could present the Saivite point of view.

 

There is no Smarta point of view as Smartas are neither Vaishnavas nor Saivas. And I think Dharmasasthras are not of much help here.

[Smiley]

Here is a response to the German Court business

from DAVID ORME-JOHNSON, PH.D.: http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/LegalIssues/GermanCourtCases/index.cfm

 

Also, I read a book by Dharma Singh Khalsa, M.D. and this excerpt from it might add some perspective:

 

 

Among the most objective and rigourous studies on meditation were those recently funded by the federal governments new Office of Alternative Medicine, or OAM. This agency, which is part of the National Institutes of Health, subjects alternative modalities to the same criteria used to analyze standard modalities. Much of the research cited in this section was produced under auspices of the OAM. According to the OAM's omnibus 1994 report on meditation, "over a period of 25 years, Benson and colleagues have developed a large body of research." Because of the research of Benson and others, says the report, "meditation in general and the relaxation response in specific have slowly moved from alternative to mainstream medicine, although they are still overlooked by many conventional doctors" ...

 

 

* Meditation creates a unique hypometabolic state, in which the metabolism is in an even deeper state of rest than during sleep. During sleep, oxygen consumption drops by 8 percent, but during meditation, it drops by 10 to 20 percent.

 

* Meditation is the only activity that reduces blood lactate, a marker of stress and anxiety

* The calming hormones melatonin and seratonin are increased by meditation, and the stress hormone cortisol is decreased.

 

* Meditation has a profound effect upon three key indicators of aging: hearing ability, blood pressure, and vision of close objects.

 

* Long-term meditators experience 80 percent less heart disease and 50 percent less cancer than non-meditators.

 

* Meditators secrete more of the youth-related hormone DHEA as they age than non-meditators. Meditating forty-five-year-old males have an average of 23 percent more DHEA than non-meditators, and meditating females have an average of 47 percent more. This helps decrease stress, heighten memory, preserve sexual function, and control weight.

 

* 75 percent of insomniacs were able to sleep normally when they meditated.

* 34 percent of people with chronic pain significantly reduced medication when they began meditating.

 

source:

Meditation As Medicine

Dharma Singh Khalsa, M.D.

http://www.amazon.com/Meditation-As-Medicine-Activate-Natural/dp/0743400658/

 

 

I was wondering whether we could draft a reply answering point to point. Basically the attack is on Yoga, Kundalini Yoga and Mantra Meditation.

 

Now we all know that there are people who try to market Yoga with the promise of Instant Kundalini (whatever that means) and flying meditation. Trying to defend these people is not our job. In this forum there are people who are talking about Vashikarana Mantra for attracting girls. Is it Hinduism? Definitely not.

 

We may take the quotes in the document and explain in in terms of the Vaishnava concepts. I think we have a number of scholars in this forum who would be able to prepare a document countering these allegations and presenting the Vaishnava point of view. May be we could even put it up on some web site.

 

Request some brain storming on this idea.

 

BTW, I know that there are some flying Om Namah Sivayahs in this forum. They could present the Saivite point of view.

 

There is no Smarta point of view as Smartas are neither Vaishnavas nor Saivas. And I think Dharmasasthras are not of much help here.