The objective of Buddhism and Hinduism

[ranjeetmore]

Meditate on yahweh...remembrance of Sri Krsna.

 

"I have been weary with my sighing, I meditate through all the night 'on' my bed, With my tear my couch I waste. "Psalms 6:6 -note this verse carefully.

 

"One thing I have asked of Yahweh, that I will seek after, that I may dwell in the house of Yahweh all the days of my life, to see Yahweh's beauty, and to inquire in his temple." Psalms 27:4 - even this verse describes the beauty of God.The devotees always ask the lord to let them be able to see Him constantly.

 

"We have thought about your loving kindness, God, in the midst of your temple." Psalms 48:9 -

 

"Evening, and morning, and noon, I meditate, and make a noise, and He heareth my voice "Psalms 55:17

 

"…I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches. "Psalms 63:6

 

"I remember God, and make a noise, I meditate, and feeble is my spirit. Selah." Psalms 77:3

 

Yena Kena Prakarena Manah Krshna Niveshayet.

 

Anyhow,somehow,just attach your mind to Sri Krsna.

 

In the Vishnu Purana,it is stated that

 

"You should ALWAYS remember Sri Krsna and NEVER forget Him.All the other vedic injunctions have to be the servants of these two principles."

 

Srila Vyasadeva made 8 sutras in the Vedanta regarding Bhakti.In one of them He says that this upasana/sadhana bhakti is to be done EVERYWHERE and at ALL TIMES.

 

Due to this condition put froward by srila Vyasadeva,it is only obvious that the upasana He is referring to is neither Karma Nor Jnyana.

Since Jyana and Karma CANNOT be performed anywhere and at all times...especially karma...time,place,yajmaan,brahman,pronunciation of the mantras,etc.

 

Even Jnyana...get a tiger skin.go to forest,caves,this that..

 

But bhakti..you may not have had a bath for 40 days,still you can remember the Lord.This is the freedom.

"Na desa niyamastith na kaala..."

 

No time,no place for bhakti.Do anywhere.

The bible is in fact endorsing bhakti.

[Smiley]

I must take issue with you:

 

 

Sri Krsna is revealed as "Our Lord,God" in the west

 

If the Bible is a revelation of Sri Krishna, is the Shiva Purana also? Sri Krishna said, "those who worship other gods, worship only Me but they do so in a wrong way." So while He may accept the worship, it is still considered "wrong way" worship according to Bhagavad Gita. Why not just allow people "in the West" to worship in their own way without trying to apply labels to it that they themselves reject?

 

 

In christianity,God is just a provider.You give me happines here on earth,i will give you prayers and maybe some tears.

But such a God might as well be called a demon by the Hindus.

Why?,you should ask.

 

You yourself believe that Yoga,mediation,etc. is like calling the devil.You yourself accept that the yogis of the himalaya region can perform some extraordinary feats.Thus you obviously conclude it as devil's work..Like a pact,you say..the devil's pact.Pact means bilateral trade.

I give this to you,

you give that to me.

 

So the Christian God is nothing but the devil,by your own logic.The promise of heaven and protection and eternal life,etc.etc.

 

You may defend this by saying,"Heaven is good so Our Lord,Jesus is not the devil."

Due to this,even i proclaim that Sri Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is described as all-auspicious and has under His control,Innumerable planets which are all spiritual,full of bliss and eternally lit by His own effulgence.

Due to this,I'm led to not blast the Christian God,for there is only one God,who manifests Himself in the Most attractive form of Sri Krsna.

 

Sri Krsna is revealed as "Our Lord,God" in the west and as Himself in Bharatavarsa...This is due to the immense revealing nature of the vedas.

 

You may call our lack of enthusiasm for christianity as consorting with some bogus devil,but in reality,all we want to say is that,Your religion is too primitve,basic and crude for the vedic followers.

[primate]

 

Fr. John Main (1926–1982) was a Benedictine monk and priest who presented a way of Christian meditation which utilizes the practice of a prayer-phrase or mantra. In his method, one recites a prayer-phrase as a means of placing everything aside. In this way, instead of talking to God, one is just being with God, allowing God’s presence to fill his heart, thus transforming his inner being. Fr. Main's teachings drew on parallels he saw between the spiritual practice taught by Desert Father John Cassian and the meditative practice he had been taught by the Swami Satyananda in Kuala Lumpur.His work is continued by Fr. Laurence Freeman. (from Wikipedia)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_meditation

 

Suppose that the names Krishna, Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus, Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, all refer to the same one and supreme god, albeit within different traditions and in different pastimes; then I guess God might be quite pleased with those of us who notice..

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Suppose that the names Krishna, Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus, Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, all refer to the same one and supreme god, albeit within different traditions and in different pastimes; then I guess God might be quite pleased with those of us who notice..

 

What if they don't?

 

What if Jehovah and Allah are names of Lord Brahma or Lord Siva or Manu or some minor demigod?

 

The God of the Bible certainly is not Vishnu or Krishna, because he was fond of meat offerings and blood offerings.

Vishnu never accepts meat offerings.

 

Allah is the same God as the God of the Bible.

 

Fact is, there is no evidence that in fact Allah or Jehovah are names of Vishnu or Krishna and they are certainly not found amongst the thousands of names of Vishnu mention in the Vedic shastra.

[Narasingh]

Fact is, there is no evidence that in fact Allah or Jehovah are names of Vishnu or Krishna and they are certainly not found amongst the thousands of names of Vishnu mention in the Vedic shastra.

Funny, I don't remember a limit on the names of Vishnu at 1000. I know of Vishnu Sahasranam, but I didn't know that because there are only 1000 names there, that Vishnu's names stop at 1000.

[primate]

 

What if they don't?

 

What if Jehovah and Allah are names of Lord Brahma or Lord Siva or Manu or some minor demigod?

 

The God of the Bible certainly is not Vishnu or Krishna, because he was fond of meat offerings and blood offerings.

Vishnu never accepts meat offerings.

 

Allah is the same God as the God of the Bible.

 

Fact is, there is no evidence that in fact Allah or Jehovah are names of Vishnu or Krishna and they are certainly not found amongst the thousands of names of Vishnu mention in the Vedic shastra.

We must reason constructively: There is only One God.

[Smiley]

 

Suppose that the names Krishna, Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus, Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, all refer to the same one and supreme god, albeit within different traditions and in different pastimes; then I guess God might be quite pleased with those of us who notice..

 

We can "suppose" all kinds of things but pure speculation does not bring us closer to the truth. Does the Shiva Purana describe the pastimes of Sri Vishnu? Are these the pastimes of Sri Vishnu?! Sri Vishnu can be distinguished by His qualities; if those don't matter then what about Zeus, Odin, Sai Baba or Elvis Presley? To define is to exclude - otherwise definitions become gibberish.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

We must reason constructively: There is only One God.

 

Bingo.

[Narasingh]

 

We can "suppose" all kinds of things but pure speculation does not bring us closer to the truth. Does the Shiva Purana describe the pastimes of Sri Vishnu? Are these the pastimes of Sri Vishnu?! Sri Vishnu can be distinguished by His qualities; if those don't matter then what about Zeus, Odin, Sai Baba or Elvis Presley? To define is to exclude - otherwise definitions become gibberish.

In Bhagavad Gita, Sri Krsna emphasizes this... B.G. 10.41

 

 

yad yad vibhutimat sattvam

srimad urjitam eva va

tat tad evavagaccha tvam

mama tejo-'msa-sambhavam

 

 

 

Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

Prior to this statement He lists a plethora of partial representations of Him in order to direct His devotees to Him in all respects. While the wind is not God, God is the wind. While Brahma is not God, God is Brahma. The beauty of the Vaishnava is that they are able to see the representation of Krsna in everything. Such as the humble sage who sees with equal vision, the brahmana, the elephant, the dog and the dog-eater.

The question arises, "How does the "family" of Abraham define Allah, Jahweh?" If they acknowledge that He is the cause of all causes, greater than the greatest, smaller than the smallest, of infinite capacities, omnipotent, omniscient, containing everything, and within everything (being the possessor of the six opulences), then can we say that they are not considering God?

Sri Chaitanya acknowledged the Koran more than once in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta (take Madhya 18 for instance). Using the Koran as a basis, He stressed that the Koran sees God in the aforementioned light, as in God does posses the six opulences. On this basis, He encouraged the Muslim community to be sensitive to what is already written in their scriptures regarding the nature of the supreme power of God and encouraged them to acknowledge that there is nothing in His mission which detracts from these opulences, it only augments and emphasizes these opulences.

He did not say that Allah is not God, only that they should be more sensitive to God's qualities.

It is in this vein that I agree with primate in his statement

We must reason constructively: There is only One God.

[Narasingh]

Smiley, a friend posted this to me. Let me know what you think.

The excerpts you posted show that this person has a very limited understanding of Hinduism and Buddhism, and therefore, we can assume, know very little of what he is talking about, i.e., yoga. For that reason, we can safely assume that he may also not know what yoga leads to.

 

Some of the mistakes he makes:

 

1. Not all Hinduism is the same as Shankara's idealist monism. In fact, the Yogasutras of Patañjali are neither idealistic nor monistic, and they strongly support the notion of surrendering to God (Isvara -- the same term that Christians in India today use for God).

 

2. The Self is not termed Brahman in Hinduism, neither is it called Nirvana in Buddhism.

 

3. None of the traditional yoga scriptures agree with what he says is the purpose of asanas and breath excersises. According to Patanjali (YS 2.48), asanas should lead to freedom from the oppression of dualities (cold/ heat, pleasure/ pain), so as to facilitate meditation etc.

 

4. How has he proved that the Hindu gods are demons? He cannot refer to the Bible, because then you can just as easily refer to the Vedas. If he has not proved that, he cannot prove that mantras invoke demons.

 

5. The effect of Yoga cultures-paragraph is completely false. In fact, there have been hospitals in India at least from the time of Ashoka (304-232 BC). Also, the Yogasutra (1.33) explicitly say that the yogi should cultivate compassion towards the suffering. Again, not all of Hinduism is idealist, in fact most Hindu philosophers are realists. And if you wish to use the present poverty of India as an illustration of the evils of Hinduism, you must be able to explain how many strongly Christian countries in Africa (e.g. the Congo) are faring even worse.

 

6. Where is the evidence that yoga leads to loose morals? Instead, we have plenty of evidence to show that the so-called Bible Belt fares worse than the rest of the USA in many "moral" issues. For a recent example, see

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1668...-consumers.html

While point 2 is arguable regarding Bhagavan meaning Self (due to the large umbrella of Hinduism) it is unarguably true regarding Nirvana. I addressed the nature of Self previously. Wonderful point regarding the African countries, and loose morals in point 6 as well.

[Gita Dharma]

 

We must reason constructively: There is only One God.

 

That statement is true. It is also true that there is only one President of the United States. People believing that his name is other than Barack Obama would be mistaken about his name. People who may have his name right but who think that he is short, fat and caucasian would be mistaken about his qualities.

[Smiley]

It is helpful; and the link in # 6 is an eye-opener.

 

 

Smiley, a friend posted this to me. Let me know what you think.While point 2 is arguable regarding Bhagavan meaning Self (due to the large umbrella of Hinduism) it is unarguably true regarding Nirvana. I addressed the nature of Self previously. Wonderful point regarding the African countries, and loose morals in point 6 as well.

 

The excerpts you posted show that this person has a very limited understanding of Hinduism and Buddhism, and therefore, we can assume, know very little of what he is talking about, i.e., yoga. For that reason, we can safely assume that he may also not know what yoga leads to.

 

Some of the mistakes he makes:

 

1. Not all Hinduism is the same as Shankara's idealist monism. In fact, the Yogasutras of Patañjali are neither idealistic nor monistic, and they strongly support the notion of surrendering to God (Isvara -- the same term that Christians in India today use for God).

 

2. The Self is not termed Brahman in Hinduism, neither is it called Nirvana in Buddhism.

 

3. None of the traditional yoga scriptures agree with what he says is the purpose of asanas and breath excersises. According to Patanjali (YS 2.48), asanas should lead to freedom from the oppression of dualities (cold/ heat, pleasure/ pain), so as to facilitate meditation etc.

 

4. How has he proved that the Hindu gods are demons? He cannot refer to the Bible, because then you can just as easily refer to the Vedas. If he has not proved that, he cannot prove that mantras invoke demons.

 

5. The effect of Yoga cultures-paragraph is completely false. In fact, there have been hospitals in India at least from the time of Ashoka (304-232 BC). Also, the Yogasutra (1.33) explicitly say that the yogi should cultivate compassion towards the suffering. Again, not all of Hinduism is idealist, in fact most Hindu philosophers are realists. And if you wish to use the present poverty of India as an illustration of the evils of Hinduism, you must be able to explain how many strongly Christian countries in Africa (e.g. the Congo) are faring even worse.

 

6. Where is the evidence that yoga leads to loose morals? Instead, we have plenty of evidence to show that the so-called Bible Belt fares worse than the rest of the USA in many "moral" issues. For a recent example, see

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html

[gHari]

Meditation - Yoga

<center>

"Be still, and know that I am God."</center>

 

Get beyond the words and idioms.

[Smiley]

 

Meditation - Yoga

<center>

"Be still, and know that I am God."</center>

 

Get beyond the words and idioms.

It is not about words and idioms, it is about morality.

Did a Supreme Being order people to do this or not?

If an unchanging being would - then it is not a stretch

that it may be within his "will" that similar be done today -

thus religious violence becomes thinkable.<br><br>

[Smiley]

 

Funny, I don't remember a limit on the names of Vishnu at 1000. I know of Vishnu Sahasranam, but I didn't know that because there are only 1000 names there, that Vishnu's names stop at 1000.

 

There may be no limit to His names, but there is a limit to the number of names revealed. If we go beyond that and engage in speculation then why don't we also add the names of Zeus, Odin, Elvis Presley and Sai Baba to the list? My guess is that because they are not as popular as Jehovah and Allah.

It is no disrespect to the Abrahamic religionists that we do not decorate Jehovah and Allah with the title 'Sri Vishnu' as they have not requested it.

[Kali_Upasaka]

That was an excellent quote posted by Narasingh. Our purpose here is to refute the statements put forward by smiley's brother and also present the Vaishnava point of view. Some people have posted that

 

1. Vaishnavism is not Hinduism and Hinduism does not exist.

 

2. Christianity and Vaishnavism are the same.

 

Unfortunately these would not wash with smiley's brother. He has classified Vaishnavism as Hinduism and also that Christianity is different from Vaishnavism. The above arguments would not be sufficient.

 

Again there is some talk about Yoga/Advaita and other systems in Hinduism.

 

I have been asked often about the prevalence of animal sacrifices in Hinduism. There is no point in denying that. My reply is always that it is not part of my tradition. We can not/should not attempt to defend the practices of all the sampradhayas/traditions. We defend only the traditions we believe in. I do not think the Catholics will defend the "speaking in tongues" and other practices of the Pentecostal people.

 

http://atheism.about.com/od/pentecostalism/a/Superstitious.htm

 

I think we have made excellent progress in replying to the wild allegations. I had posted earlier that we should reply point by point. But now I realize the problems in that.

 

So let us stick to presenting the Vaishnavite point of view.

[ranjeetmore]

Christianity is nothing but devotion to God.

 

The SAME Supreme Lord is referred in the Vedanta as in the Bible and the Qoran.The sacrifice of Eid....it was a tradtion of sacrificing one's sensual desires for the Supreme Lord.It has degraded into slaughtering now.This deterioration ALWAYS happens.

You can see many parallels.But the most astonishing yet overlooked parallel is ''Bhakti" Devotion.Each and every scripture stresses devotion to the Supreme Lord.

 

Some people say that YAHWEH and ALLAH are NOT the names of the Supreme Lord.

This is very wrong.The vedas clearly state that that paraBrahm can be addressed by any name."Ka-Kha-ma-pa-da du".

There is no limitation at ALL.

Yashoda calls that BRahm as 'Kalua'- black,small boy.

There is absolutely no retsrain.

 

There have been many sincere people in the west in the past too.The paramatma which resides in an Indian,also resides in the heart of a Christian.The vedas state this.

When the Christian is in constant remembrance of this paramatma eventhough he does not know His form,he very well compells the same paramatma to reveal His form in next life or the very present one.This is very simple.There is no fault,no loop in this design at all.

 

There is only one God.He manifests in Billions of Billions of Forms and Infinite Names.

[Narasingh]

Smiley,

Forgive me, (those who are not adherents to the philosophy of Sri Caitanya) but I believe that, inherently, Sri Caitanya addresses this subject, most authoritatively, in many ways through Krsna Das Kaviraj in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. Sri Caitanya does not go through, systematically stating that people don't believe in God. He acknowleges their belief in Parabhraman, Sri Krsna, albeit by different names and approaches, then questions why they don't sensitively and sensibly approach faith wholeheartedly.

 

It is on this ground of sensibility, sensitivity, and wholeheartedness that a person can establish a refutation. Anything else will be the same thing that any other bigot can accomplish.

 

The point being, B.G. 4.11

 

 

 

ye yatha mam prapadyante

tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

mama vartmanuvartante

manusyah partha sarvasah

 

All of them--as they surrender unto Me--I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha.

This is a great meditation to maintain when trying to establish why you follow Sri Caitanya's philosophy.

Upon establishing the authority of the Supreme, you can then use philosophy and logic to establish the wholesome ways of devoting one's self to the Supreme.

It is accepted that Buddha was right in that one need no longer sacrifice animals. True sacrifice comes from within. This is an axiomatic truth accepted across the board of Theists. Suffering, hate, lust, envy, exploitation and confusion are not a soul's constitution, but a self-accepted designation. This needs to be addressed.... Why does a soul accept these designations?

Yoga, meditation, samadhi, mantra japa, are all ways in which one peels away the coverings of one's miserable designations. Ceto darpana marjana... We must cleanse our soul's heart of the soot of miserable designations. We must root out selfishness and take up the four legs of Dharma: cleanliness, truthfullness, tolerance, and compassion.

 

Sri Caitanya establishes that the only way in which one may efficiently and completely cleanse their heart and relieve themselves from their miserable existence is through Sri Krsna Sankirtanam.

 

Establish that Krsna is none other than the same God you and I devote to and you have done a great service. This establishment cannot be done by simply saying, "You believe in a false God". It has to be done by showing that Krsna is God in full aspect. He is the complete gem and not the facet.

 

 

[Smiley]

Narasingh,

I think a few clarifications are in order: 1. I am not a follower of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu but I do like certain paintings of Sri Krishna. 2. It is not my intention to convince my brother of anything but to make an adequate, reasoned defense of Sanatana Dharma. If that somehow or another plants a seed which sprouts into deeper thinking at some future point - so be it. I am not out to convert him at all and that attitude would only confirm what many Christians already fear - that Hindus, Buddhists, etc. have that as their agenda 3. I am not stuck on names, idioms, words, etc. I prefer to use the revealed names of Sri Vishnu and I think it would be presumptuous for me to go beyond that. My only issue with other people using the names of Jehovah and Allah are that they are inexorable with the Bible and the Koran, both of which call for the slaughter of innocents and describe Jehovah and Allah as jealous and disgusted with the worshipers of images. That being said, I have no doubt that the same being which resides in me resides equally within everyone including Christians and Muslims, many of which are no doubt more pious than I am. That doesn't change in the least any of my arguments against the teachings of the Abrahamic literatures - teachings which should be subjected to moral scrutiny. To reiterate - my views are based upon what I think are dangerous and morally flawed teachings. I am trying to do philosophy here - if that makes me like "any other bigot" in your eyes - so be it. Unless you want to address those issues and the other points which I raised (i.e. Zeus, Odin, Elvis Presley and Sai Baba) then I should rest my pen now rather than spin my wheels.

 

 

Smiley,

Forgive me, (those who are not adherents to the philosophy of Sri Caitanya) but I believe that, inherently, Sri Caitanya addresses this subject, most authoritatively, in many ways through Krsna Das Kaviraj in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. Sri Caitanya does not go through, systematically stating that people don't believe in God. He acknowleges their belief in Parabhraman, Sri Krsna, albeit by different names and approaches, then questions why they don't sensitively and sensibly approach faith wholeheartedly.

 

It is on this ground of sensibility, sensitivity, and wholeheartedness that a person can establish a refutation. Anything else will be the same thing that any other bigot can accomplish.

 

The point being, B.G. 4.11

 

 

 

ye yatha mam prapadyante

tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

mama vartmanuvartante

manusyah partha sarvasah

 

All of them--as they surrender unto Me--I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha.

This is a great meditation to maintain when trying to establish why you follow Sri Caitanya's philosophy.

Upon establishing the authority of the Supreme, you can then use philosophy and logic to establish the wholesome ways of devoting one's self to the Supreme.

It is accepted that Buddha was right in that one need no longer sacrifice animals. True sacrifice comes from within. This is an axiomatic truth accepted across the board of Theists. Suffering, hate, lust, envy, exploitation and confusion are not a soul's constitution, but a self-accepted designation. This needs to be addressed.... Why does a soul accept these designations?

Yoga, meditation, samadhi, mantra japa, are all ways in which one peels away the coverings of one's miserable designations. Ceto darpana marjana... We must cleanse our soul's heart of the soot of miserable designations. We must root out selfishness and take up the four legs of Dharma: cleanliness, truthfullness, tolerance, and compassion.

 

Sri Caitanya establishes that the only way in which one may efficiently and completely cleanse their heart and relieve themselves from their miserable existence is through Sri Krsna Sankirtanam.

 

Establish that Krsna is none other than the same God you and I devote to and you have done a great service. This establishment cannot be done by simply saying, "You believe in a false God". It has to be done by showing that Krsna is God in full aspect. He is the complete gem and not the facet.

 

 

[primate]

 

It is not about words and idioms, it is about morality.

Did a Supreme Being order people to do this or not?

If an unchanging being would - then it is not a stretch

that it may be within his "will" that similar be done today -

thus religious violence becomes thinkable.

 

 

 

...

In the Old Testament we witnessed the most immoral behavior imaginable. Genocide, ethnic cleansing, sexual slavery, the murder of children, kidnapping. All of it not only permitted by God, but mandated by God. And if you doubt this take another look at books like Exodus and Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and 2nd Samuel and Numbers, and 1st and 2nd Kings, and Zechariah. I mean these books -- in these books, the most unethical behavior is celebrated. If these events occurred in our own time, half the prophets and kings of Israel would be shackled and brought to The Hague for crimes against humanity, including Moses for slaughtering the Medinites, including Joshua for slaughtering the Malachites, including Elijah for slaughtering the prophets of Baal. These men by our standards today they were utter psychopaths, as was Abraham for -- as Christopher Hitchens recently put it, “For taking such a long and gloomy walk with his son Isaac.”

...

Is this really the best book we have on morality? Is it even a good book? Now, happily most Christians and Jews disregard the morality on offer in the Old Testament. And they rationalize the barbarity we find there by saying, oh, this was appropriate to the time, it was appropriate to the ancient world. The idea being that the Canaanites were so ill-behaved, that just getting together a short list of reasons to kill your neighbor and sticking to it was a great improvement over the general barbarity of the time. No, it wasn’t. It was within the moral compass of human beings then to recognize that killing somebody for adultery was evil. The Buddha managed it, Mahavira, the Jain patriarch managed it, numerous Greek philosophers managed it.

...

And it's also worth observing that the most atheistic societies on the planet like Sweden and Denmark and the Netherlands are in many respects the most moral, they have rates of violent crime that are far lower than our own in the U.S. And they are more generous both within their own population and in the developing world on a per capita basis. Sweden, which opposed the war in Iraq, has nevertheless admitted more Iraqi refugees into its borders than any country and many more than the U.S. has.

...

(From a talk by Elliot Gerson and Sam Harris) http://www.aifestival.org/library/transcript/believingtheunbelievable.pdf)

 

The general perception of Abrahamism displayed above, drives people away from religion and towards atheism, or indeed towards 'religious' violence. True religion must be truly believable. The Old Testament (Tanakh, Koran) was rewritten many times, so we really cannot trust its source or purpose as a historical document. The Christian New Testament is of course much younger and its message is clearly one of love, devotion, and nonviolence. It seems to be much more compatible with Vaishnavism and bhakti yoga..

[Smiley]

I completely agree and since most Christians seem to simply follow the New Testament I will not criticize them (unless they attack Sanatana Dharma). This is because I believe that Sri Vishnu accepts their sacrifice as He does mine - "If anyone with love and devotion offers me a leaf, a fruit or a flower I will accept it." The fact that many Christians will indeed go to the mat in defense of the Old Testatment ("it reveals God's holy character") creates cognitive dissonance within me since I am philosophically wired; therefore I try to avoid those discussions with them as much as possible.

 

 

The general perception of Abrahamism displayed above, drives people away from religion and towards atheism, or indeed towards 'religious' violence. True religion must be truly believable. The Old Testament (Tanakh, Koran) was rewritten many times, so we really cannot trust its source or purpose as a historical document. The Christian New Testament is of course much younger and its message is clearly one of love, devotion, and nonviolence. It seems to be much more compatible with Vaishnavism and bhakti yoga..

[Narasingh]

 

Narasingh,

I think a few clarifications are in order: 1. I am not a follower of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu but I do like certain paintings of Sri Krishna. 2. It is not my intention to convince my brother of anything but to make an adequate defense of Truth. If that somehow or another plants a seed which sprouts into deeper thinking at some future point - so be it. I am not out to convert him at all and that attitude would only confirm what many Christians already fear - that Hindus, Buddhists, etc. have that agenda 3. I am not stuck on names, idioms, words, etc. I prefer to use the revealed names of Sri Vishnu and I think it would be presumptuous of me to go beyond that. My only issue with the names of Jehovah and Allah are that they are inexorable with the Bible and the Koran, both of which call for the slaughter of innocents and describe Jehovah and Allah as jealous and disgusted with the worshipers of images. That being said, I have no doubt that the same being which resides in me resides equally within everyone including Christians and Muslims, many of which are no doubt more pious than I am. That doesn't change in the least any of my arguments against the teachings of the Abrahamic literatures - which should be subjected to moral scrutiny. To reiterate - my views are based upon what I think are dangerous and morally flawed teachings. I am trying to do philosophy here - if that makes me like "any other bigot" in your eyes - so be it. Unless you want to address those issues and the other points which I raised (i.e. Zeus, Odin, Elvis Presley and Sai Baba) then I should put down my pen now since I am just spinning my wheels.

Please don't put down your pen. I thank you for your clarifications. I don't consider you a bigot by any sense, and to clarify why I addressed my statement to you, it was to remain in context with your queries, and not the get involved in a spin-off with other posters.

 

I agree that the morality of Abrahamism's contemporary teachings is and should be under scrutiny, in as much as Vedic moralities have come under scrutiny and reform. In that Allah and Jehovah are inexorably tied to Abrahamism, you'd have to debunk the whole notion that they are in any way addressing the Absolute Creator rather than serving as a reform.

 

I don't quite see your equation of Zeus and Odin to Param Ishvara, though. It is my understanding that both Zeus and Odin share their capacities with other gods in a clearly pantheistic way. Thus they have yet to be considered as Deva Deva or God of Gods, or it remains to be seen by a representation of either Zeus or Odin by a person of their faith.

 

Your question, in this regard, is one of depth. Not easily addressed. It is still a revolving door in the Hindu community as well, with the discussions of who is Param Ishvara/Ishvari, Shiva or Vishnu or Shakti.

 

Back to your original question regarding meditation and Yoga.

What I said about Sri Caitanya pertains to this. He isn't the only one to prescribe the cleansing of the lens to soul's heart, although He is certainly one who put great emphasis on Hari Nama and mantra japa as a means to do so.

 

This cleansing of the lens is what the end purpose of Yoga is.

 

Upon deeper inspection regarding Vishnu and morbid offerings, you'll find the revelation of Arjuna as he witnessed the Vishwarup to be particular as he watched Vishwarup devouring the men of Kurukshetra with His mouth, their heads being crushed by his teeth. Is this not Vishnu? Vishnu is death, life and everything in between and outside.

 

Yoga should instill in us an awareness of the true nature of things. The soul is not the body. Designations such as cat, dog, man, woman, father, daughter, are all temporary designations. Our life in this framework is precarious.

 

Meat eating and the sacrificial slaughtering of animals is gradually deemed obsolete since its foundation is the offering of our most cherished desires to God. Gradually, as one evolves, they will find that they no longer desire as much, especially the desire to benefit from the pain of other creatures of God. They will see that in God's request of sacrifice from us it is really a request of self-sacrifice since we obviously cherish ourselves above all else.

 

Compassion, tolerance, cleanliness, and truthfulness are encouraged in both Buddhism and Vaishnavism. It has been understood and shown that those who are compassionate, tolerant, clean and truthful are happy, and that those who are aDharma are not. Even a rudimentary analysis will provide for this. These are qualities which are respected world wide, not only Abrahamic or Hindu.

[Smiley]

Narasingh,

I really appreciate the time and efforts of you and everyone else who has contributed to this thread -

even those who I do not agree with. We will never completely agree on all of these issues but I do

respect your scholarly presentation and realize that your views are an important part of our Dharma.

I look forward to reading your blog or website.

 

 

Please don't put down your pen. I thank you for your clarifications. I don't consider you a bigot by any sense, and to clarify why I addressed my statement to you, it was to remain in context with your queries, and not the get involved in a spin-off with other posters.

 

I agree that the morality of Abrahamism's contemporary teachings is and should be under scrutiny, in as much as Vedic moralities have come under scrutiny and reform. In that Allah and Jehovah are inexorably tied to Abrahamism, you'd have to debunk the whole notion that they are in any way addressing the Absolute Creator rather than serving as a reform.

 

I don't quite see your equation of Zeus and Odin to Param Ishvara, though. It is my understanding that both Zeus and Odin share their capacities with other gods in a clearly pantheistic way. Thus they have yet to be considered as Deva Deva or God of Gods, or it remains to be seen by a representation of either Zeus or Odin by a person of their faith.

 

Your question, in this regard, is one of depth. Not easily addressed. It is still a revolving door in the Hindu community as well, with the discussions of who is Param Ishvara/Ishvari, Shiva or Vishnu or Shakti.

 

Back to your original question regarding meditation and Yoga.

What I said about Sri Caitanya pertains to this. He isn't the only one to prescribe the cleansing of the lens to soul's heart, although He is certainly one who put great emphasis on Hari Nama and mantra japa as a means to do so.

 

This cleansing of the lens is what the end purpose of Yoga is.

 

Upon deeper inspection regarding Vishnu and morbid offerings, you'll find the revelation of Arjuna as he witnessed the Vishwarup to be particular as he watched Vishwarup devouring the men of Kurukshetra with His mouth, their heads being crushed by his teeth. Is this not Vishnu? Vishnu is death, life and everything in between and outside.

 

Yoga should instill in us an awareness of the true nature of things. The soul is not the body. Designations such as cat, dog, man, woman, father, daughter, are all temporary designations. Our life in this framework is precarious.

 

Meat eating and the sacrificial slaughtering of animals is gradually deemed obsolete since its foundation is the offering of our most cherished desires to God. Gradually, as one evolves, they will find that they no longer desire as much, especially the desire to benefit from the pain of other creatures of God. They will see that in God's request of sacrifice from us it is really a request of self-sacrifice since we obviously cherish ourselves above all else.

 

Compassion, tolerance, cleanliness, and truthfulness are encouraged in both Buddhism and Vaishnavism. It has been understood and shown that those who are compassionate, tolerant, clean and truthful are happy, and that those who are aDharma are not. Even a rudimentary analysis will provide for this. These are qualities which are respected world wide, not only Abrahamic or Hindu.

[Gita Dharma]

 

Upon deeper inspection regarding Vishnu and morbid offerings, you'll find the revelation of Arjuna as he witnessed the Vishwarup to be particular as he watched Vishwarup devouring the men of Kurukshetra with His mouth, their heads being crushed by his teeth. Is this not Vishnu? Vishnu is death, life and everything in between and outside.

 

The Vishwarupa is simply a representation of kala (time), the ultimate devourer/destroyer of men. (The Bhagavatam actually views the form as illusory.) Therefore when Arjuna, after seeing that terrible form asked the Lord what it meant, He replied, "I am Time, the Destroyer ..." However Sri Vishnu never requested people to make morbid sacrifices, going to great lengths to explain in Bhagavad Gita the differences between sacrifices made under the influence of the different gunas. Those who due to ignorance make morbid sacrifices, do so under the influence of tamas guna. Such sacrifices are never recommended. Unlike the evolving morals of Theists, Sri Vishnu does not change. Therefore we are left with the conclusion that any deities who requested morbid sacrifices are not Him - even though He hears the prayers of all. If a child in distress calls for his father but his father is not, any caring adult may answer that call. This does not mean that that adult is the actual parent - it is simply an act of compassion.

 

 

 

Please don't put down your pen. I thank you for your clarifications. I don't consider you a bigot by any sense, and to clarify why I addressed my statement to you, it was to remain in context with your queries, and not the get involved in a spin-off with other posters.

 

I agree that the morality of Abrahamism's contemporary teachings is and should be under scrutiny, in as much as Vedic moralities have come under scrutiny and reform. In that Allah and Jehovah are inexorably tied to Abrahamism, you'd have to debunk the whole notion that they are in any way addressing the Absolute Creator rather than serving as a reform.

 

I don't quite see your equation of Zeus and Odin to Param Ishvara, though. It is my understanding that both Zeus and Odin share their capacities with other gods in a clearly pantheistic way. Thus they have yet to be considered as Deva Deva or God of Gods, or it remains to be seen by a representation of either Zeus or Odin by a person of their faith.

 

Your question, in this regard, is one of depth. Not easily addressed. It is still a revolving door in the Hindu community as well, with the discussions of who is Param Ishvara/Ishvari, Shiva or Vishnu or Shakti.

 

Back to your original question regarding meditation and Yoga.

What I said about Sri Caitanya pertains to this. He isn't the only one to prescribe the cleansing of the lens to soul's heart, although He is certainly one who put great emphasis on Hari Nama and mantra japa as a means to do so.

 

This cleansing of the lens is what the end purpose of Yoga is.

 

Upon deeper inspection regarding Vishnu and morbid offerings, you'll find the revelation of Arjuna as he witnessed the Vishwarup to be particular as he watched Vishwarup devouring the men of Kurukshetra with His mouth, their heads being crushed by his teeth. Is this not Vishnu? Vishnu is death, life and everything in between and outside.

 

Yoga should instill in us an awareness of the true nature of things. The soul is not the body. Designations such as cat, dog, man, woman, father, daughter, are all temporary designations. Our life in this framework is precarious.

 

Meat eating and the sacrificial slaughtering of animals is gradually deemed obsolete since its foundation is the offering of our most cherished desires to God. Gradually, as one evolves, they will find that they no longer desire as much, especially the desire to benefit from the pain of other creatures of God. They will see that in God's request of sacrifice from us it is really a request of self-sacrifice since we obviously cherish ourselves above all else.

 

Compassion, tolerance, cleanliness, and truthfulness are encouraged in both Buddhism and Vaishnavism. It has been understood and shown that those who are compassionate, tolerant, clean and truthful are happy, and that those who are aDharma are not. Even a rudimentary analysis will provide for this. These are qualities which are respected world wide, not only Abrahamic or Hindu.

[Narasingh]

 

Narasingh,

I really appreciate the time and efforts of you and everyone else who has contributed to this thread -

even those who I do not agree with. We will never completely agree on all of these issues but I do

respect your scholarly presentation and realize that your views are an important part of our Dharma.

I look forward to reading your blog or website.

Namaste