Krishna Taking The Parijat Tree

[jaswant]

why did indra not remember who Krishna was ,when he took the parijat tree...Krishna just delivered his (indra's) mothers ear rings after killing a demon who was incapable of being killed by indra...

 

 

ys

jaswant

[Sonic Yogi]

 

why did indra not remember who Krishna was ,when he took the parijat tree...Krishna just delivered his (indra's) mothers ear rings after killing a demon who was incapable of being killed by indra...

 

 

ys

jaswant

 

 

King Indra's behavior toward Krsna was not very much appreciated by great sages like Sukadeva Gosvami. Out of His causeless mercy, Krsna had gone to the heavenly kingdom, Amaravati, to present King Indra with his mother's earrings, which had been lost to Bhaumasura, and Indra had been very glad to receive them. But when a flower plant from the heavenly kingdom was taken by Krsna, Indra offered to fight with Him. This was self-interest on the part of Indra. He offered his prayer, tipping down his head to the lotus feet of Krsna, but as soon as his purpose was served, he became a different creature. That is the way of the dealings of materialistic men. Materialistic men are always interested in their own profit. For this purpose they can offer any kind of respect to anyone, but when their personal interest is over, they are no longer friends. This selfish nature is not only found among the richer class of men on this planet, but is present even in personalities like Indra and other demigods. Too much wealth makes a man selfish. A selfish man is not prepared to take to Krsna consciousness and is condemned by great devotees like Sukadeva Gosvami. In other words, possession of too many worldly riches is a disqualification for advancement in Krsna consciousness.

 

Krsna Book ch. 59

[jaswant]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!

i just find it so hard to belive that a person like indra is bewildered in a moment....not only this incident ..but also the lifting of Govardhan hill...ok maybe he forgot about the Govardhan hill because that happened a while ago...but this ... he was defeated by Bhaumasura, but he still could not recognise KRISHNA AS GOD !!

[visnujana]

 

i just find it so hard to belive that a person like indra is bewildered in a moment....

It's not a fact we would have been able to recognize Krishna if He appeared in front of us. I mean, we'd probably notice His unique skin color and other such things, but still personal relationship is such a tricky thing... Isn't it that quite often our perception of someone changes when we actually meet the person? Sometimes it is easier to stay in the 'safe' mood of reverential fear until a while after you actually have met the person. Plus Krishna apparently does not have much authority in His personality, instead He is told to be quite sweet. But then again not everyone is able to recognize that sweetness either. Kamsa was not allured.. many other also were not.

[jaswant]

THANKS VISNUJANA ,

maybe iam not puting it correctly , let me try again--

 

my query is , how do we reconcile , the actions of indra , when he first bows down to Krisna and offers all respects and prayers and acknowledge him as GOD....Thah when he wants the plant he refuses and is ready to fight ! , but a monent ago he was praying to Krishna...and taking into account he is indra the king of heaven he is no odinary being ! he knows that Krishna is GOD from prior experiance like the lifting of Govardhan hill...thats my difficulty to understand...looking fwd to a replies.

HARI-BOL!!

jaswant

[Sonic Yogi]

 

THANKS VISNUJANA ,

maybe iam not puting it correctly , let me try again--

 

my query is , how do we reconcile , the actions of indra , when he first bows down to Krisna and offers all respects and prayers and acknowledge him as GOD....Thah when he wants the plant he refuses and is ready to fight ! , but a monent ago he was praying to Krishna...and taking into account he is indra the king of heaven he is no odinary being ! he knows that Krishna is GOD from prior experiance like the lifting of Govardhan hill...thats my difficulty to understand...looking fwd to a replies.

HARI-BOL!!

jaswant

Maybe Indra realized that Lord Krishna more or less wanted to pick a fight over the Parijata flower and obliged him in a sporting battle over the flower?

 

Many times the devotees of Krsna will battle with him in sport.

 

Bhisma battled with Krsna though Bhisma was a devotee of Narayan or Krsna.

 

So, Indra also had to think about what would happen if he did not oblige the Lord in an invitation to fight.

 

This was a pastime of Krsna to show his supremacy over the King of Heaven.

 

If Indra did not oblige the Lord in this battle to show the supremacy of Krsna, then that itself would have been an insult to the Lord.

 

Krsna enjoyed the battle with Indra.

It gave him pleasure.

 

In that way, Indra was serving the Lord by giving him the chance to show his supremacy over the King of Heaven.

[visnujana]

Just a thought or two..

This Earthly planet is the place where we build our good karma. Dharma: 'good' and 'bad' conceptions are important here to consider and they are deep in our consciousness. Whatever we do we automatically weight it using our intelligence as to what will be the consequences. So, pertaining to a religious practice we also have this tendency of being obidient to God and all this..

As opposed to this, Havens are meant for 'wasting' the good karma, not building it. Sense enjoyment is pretty much all they are rightfully do there. So, they should have less restrictions of 'good' and 'bad', they should be more like kids: I can do whatever I want to. Of course, being pious they should naturally avoid doing too much craziness. But what I mean to say, they might have less rational approach in their actions.

Even on this planet people in different parts of the world act differently: some nationalities are more rational, some other are more like let's just try it and see what will come out.

I guess what I am trying to say is.. it might not be possible for us to completely understand how Indra or any other resident of Haven think and act.. Too much difference in consciousness.

Off course, 'we' wouldn't do a thing like this.. But this might be so just because our concept of 'good' and 'bad' would not allow us, not because we love Krishna more..

Just trying to save Indra's reputation.. I like him.

[jaswant]

THANKS, SONIC YGI & VISHNIJANA !!

 

I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS ,

 

thare is another incident regarding brahma , just before creation brahma is granted a vision of the lord... brahma asks for a boon to never be "bewildered" ...later on the epsode of "stealing" the cows & cowherd boys .. why was he bewildered...he knew who Krishna was..it was brahma who directed the devas to take birth among the yadus!...there are these suble doubts ...

[jaswant]

Thanks, Sonic Yogi & Vishnujana !!

Sorry For The Mis Spelling !

[visnujana]

I think Sonic Yogi made an excellent point that can help us here understand this case with Brahma. Brahma asked Krishna for the blessing to never forget Him. However, I am sure if Krishna wanted to enjoy a pastime where that blessing needed to be 'violated', Brahma would not be upset in the least with Krishna giving him a blessing that 'doesn't work'. What could be a better fortune for a devotee than to be directly engaged in Krishna's pastime? After all how many times we know that Brahma forgot Krishna? Not too many, I'd say... and all those are all in Srimad Bhagavatam (otherwise how would we know).. that means they are parts of Krishna-lila.

[Gadadhara dasa (rus)]

 

Maybe Indra realized that Lord Krishna more or less wanted to pick a fight over the Parijata flower and obliged him in a sporting battle over the flower?

I like this version by Sonic Yogi and it makes me feel comfortable. However, Sri Suka explicitly called this behavior ignorance or illusion and damned wealth of suras. So it still remains a question for me how a CEO of heavens can be "ignorant". His position is not simply that of enjoying the good karma, but is that of chief sura. In Bhagavad Gita asuric qualities are set off against daiva type qualities, hence daivic = those of suras. Daivic qualities are

 

Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor.

 

Freedom from covetousness is exactly what is lacking in the person who "chose to fight with Supreme Lord".

 

Can anyone think of some other explanation?

[ranjeetmore]

No one can recognize God.

 

Tulsidasa states that even Brahma and Mahesvara can't know that Brahm...who is indra then.

When Gauranga was there,no ordinary person recognised him.Now everyone does gaurahari ! Gaurahari !!

But no one can understand God even if He comes today and stays at ur place.

 

Krisna always stays in the mahatma's heart.The Mahatma never forgets Him.But even the greatest of all the demigods do not remember Krisna.This immediately puts them under maya.Maya is the one who made Indra fight.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

I like this version by Sonic Yogi and it makes me feel comfortable. However, Sri Suka explicitly called this behavior ignorance or illusion and damned wealth of suras. So it still remains a question for me how a CEO of heavens can be "ignorant". His position is not simply that of enjoying the good karma, but is that of chief sura. In Bhagavad Gita asuric qualities are set off against daiva type qualities, hence daivic = those of suras. Daivic qualities are

 

Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor.

 

Freedom from covetousness is exactly what is lacking in the person who "chose to fight with Supreme Lord".

 

Can anyone think of some other explanation?

 

Sukadeva Goswami was probably concerned that shedding a favorable light on the situation involving Indra fighting with Lord Krsna over the Parijata flower would send the wrong message, so he opted to discourage battling with Lord Krsna in favor of giving the Lord what he wants without question.

 

Sukadeva knew good and well that Indra is a very pious deva and King of Heaven, but he did not want to encourage mortal humans who read Srimad Bhagavatam to get the wrong message and artificially assume some position of battling against Lord Krsna.

 

Indra is a big, big demigod. It was his duty to battle with Lord Krishna over the Parijata flower and give the Lord pleasure in defeating the King of Heaven and showing his supremecy to the inhabitants of the universe.

This is actually an eternal pastime of the Lord that happens in all the universes regularly as long as the material comos is manifested.

 

But, Sukadeva Goswami did not want to encourage this type of behaviour amongst common living entities, so he took the position of showing fault in Indra's behaviour instead of emphasizing the deeper, inner lila that was going on between Lord Krsna and his devotee Lord Indra, the King of Heaven.

 

So, it's all good.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

No one can recognize God.

 

Tulsidasa states that even Brahma and Mahesvara can't know that Brahm...who is indra then.

When Gauranga was there,no ordinary person recognised him.Now everyone does gaurahari ! Gaurahari !!

But no one can understand God even if He comes today and stays at ur place.

 

Krisna always stays in the mahatma's heart.The Mahatma never forgets Him.But even the greatest of all the demigods do not remember Krisna.This immediately puts them under maya.Maya is the one who made Indra fight.

 

But, the fighting with Krsna must be the Yogamaya and not the Mahamaya of the material variety.

 

Mahamaya becomes Yogamaya as soon as Krishna is involved.

[primate]

 

Mahamaya becomes Yogamaya as soon as Krishna is involved.

 

Where was that written?

 

 

Mahamaya or Maya, in Indian religions, has multiple meanings. Maya, is the principal deity who creates, perpetuates and governs the illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe. For some mystics this manifestation is real, but it is a fleeting reality; it is a mistake, although a natural one, to believe that Maya represents a fundamental reality or Truth. [1] Each person, each physical object, from the perspective of eternity is like a brief, disturbed drop of water from an unbounded ocean. The goal of enlightenment is to understand this — more precisely, to experience this: to see intuitively that the distinction between the self and the Universe is a false dichotomy. The distinction between consciousness and physical matter, between mind and body (refer bodymind), is the result of an unenlightened perspective. (from Wikipedia)

 

 

But what is Yogamaya?

[ranjeetmore]

Yogamaya is the personal energy.

It is mentioned in the Visnu Purana,"Vishnu Shakti Para prokta...."

Even the vedas describe these energies...especially the svetasvatara upanishad"Bhokta Bhogyam preritaranjam"

Bhokta(enjoyer) is Jeeva.

Bhogya(enjoyable) is maya

and

Then Brahm's personal energy is defined as 'prerita'.One who CONTROLS both Jeeva and MAya.

Moreover the definition of Brahm found in the vedas is further explained in the vishnu purana.

"Bringadhtvat bhringayati tat param brahm."

 

Thus Sri Visnu is that Brahm Who is the greatest and makes others also great.

 

You say Mahamaya is fundamentally non-existent.If that were the case,the vedas would have specified it.Instead,the vedas describe THREE ETERNAL tattvas : Brahm,Maya and Jeeva.

They are Both ETERNAL and INDESTRUCTIBLE.[Carefully note the word indestructible]

Due to this,Srila Vedavyasa could have the vision of first Brahm Sri Krsna,then Maya then the Jeeva.

 

Since the vedas decribe THREE tattvas,the notion that there is ONE and only ONE SELF is eliminated.

Maya makes the Jeeva FORGET his own identity.What you call Moksa,is the realisation of this Jeevatma's position.

Since this realisation can NEVER happen with the efforts of the Jeevatma,this is where Brahm comes in.Svetasvatara Muni clearly states that "Oh Humans ! I Know Brahm.You can know Him too by His MERCY."

By His MERCY....Thus the obvious distinction between the jeeva and Brahm.He can BESTOW MERCY.Shankara ACCEPTED this in the commentary on the Vedanta sutra.This is a very important point for it leads us to only one and only one path : Bhakti.The great precepors (read Madhva,Ramanuja,Nimbarka,Vallabha) found entire disciplic lines of successions based on this fact.Sri Shankara,well he had his reasons...but he too came around...especially in prabodha sudhakara and his commentary of the Geeta,where he vigorously accepts the definition of Parashara muni,"Bhagavan means the One who has 6 opulences in infinte quantity.This Advaya Jnana tattva can't be anyone other than Sri Krsna."

He very openly composed an offering ,"Bhagavan Manasa Puja" to Sri Krsna,on the other hand he also composed,"Shiva Manasa puja" etc.

You may say that the vedas state that there is only One: Brahm.But then I can say that you massively ignore the mantras signifying the existence of 3 tattvas.

Due to this apparent confusion of Oneness and Eternal separate identification,we have to inevitably turn towards Acintya Bheda Abheda-Simultaneous Oneness and Difference.

 

Addressing Sonic Yogi,

Indra's Maya never goes eventhough he is fighting with Sri Krsna just like Agni and Vayu were under maya when they dealt with Brahm in Kathopanishad.

Yogamaya manifests as the work of maya in front of maya baddha jeevas,whether it be Indra.Thus Indra's maya baddha status never changed.That's why She is all-harmonious and the supreme arranger.

[ranjeetmore]

"Kartum Akartum Anyatha Kartum Samarth." - vedas.

 

This Brahm can perform all possible and Impossible tasks.He can also perform them in reverse or any other order.This is Yogamaya,the Supreme Energy.

Then comes the energy- Hladini.This energy is the main boss of all the energies.

This energy is described in the Vedas,"..Jnana bala kriya ca"

This Kriya shakti/Hladini shakti is the one who always keeps Brahm in infintie Bliss.This manifests as Yoganidra in the Vishnu pastimes.Remember the divine,Blissful 'slumber' of Sri Visnu.This is yogamaya.

[Guest Melvin1]

 

why did indra not remember who Krishna was ,when he took the parijat tree...Krishna just delivered his (indra's) mothers ear rings after killing a demon who was incapable of being killed by indra...

 

 

ys

jaswant

 

Even if Indra remembered who Krsna was, the former took it as an offense when Krsna without permission took his parijata tree. It`s a natural reaction. Anyone would consider it as a grave threat when just anybody takes away say, his wife without his consent. Even if the taker himself is God.