Ram performed animal sacrifice with his own hands

[Guest SalvageMe]

Then that resolute Rama on going into forest along with Soumitri hunted a robust-bodied, big Rohi animal, or, Kesari animal, and then he spread sacred grass on ground to place that offering to the deceased soul of that bird. [3-68-32

 

On drawing up the flesh of that Rohi animal and lumping it to gobbets, that highly observant Rama placed those gobbets on pleasant greenish pasturelands as obsequial offerings in respect of that bird Jataayu. [3-68-33]

 

How ignorant and cruel.

[jeffster]

But that soul would have made tremendous spiritual advancement or even attained liberation by being sacrificed by Lord Rama. Try to see not just the body of the animal as the self, but that the self is inhabiting the body of the animal. That self is on a long sojourn, through many, many bodies. If that soul came into contact with Lord Rama, that meeting could be not other than auspicious for that soul. Just as all those who died within sight of Lord Krishna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra attained liberation. We must not limit ourselves to seeing only the external actions, we must attempt to discern what is going on internally. Hope this helps !!

jeffster/AMd

[Guest SalvageMe]

This can only be wishful thinking. Liberation is not possible without personal effort. Even if God stood in a personal form before you, unless you have the thirst for God, you can't perceive him as God.

[jeffster]

This is not wishful thinking. God is magnanimous, is He not ? If God wishes to benedict a particular soul, He can certainly do it. We call it "causeless mercy." For no apparent reason, God (Rama) can and does benedict a particular soul, without even any effort on that soul's part. In other words, under certain circumstances, liberation IS possible without personal effort. These instances are indeed rare, but possible. With God, anything is possible. My gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, said something to the effect that "Impossible is a word in a fool's dictionary."

Regards, jeffster/AMd

[Guest SalvageMe]

To "offer" someone liberation who doesn't crave for it doesn't make any sense. God will respect free will of the beings and not interfere with it.

Please, do your own effort for liberation , and not wait for God to "kill" you and offer liberation.

[Amlesh]

 

To "offer" someone liberation who doesn't crave for it doesn't make any sense. God will respect free will of the beings and not interfere with it.

Please, do your own effort for liberation , and not wait for God to "kill" you and offer liberation.

 

Liberation is infact granted for those who don't crave for it.

[jeffster]

The meaning is that the souls who wished to have a pastime such as this with God, and attain liberation, actually desired it, although likely not on a fully conscious level. Yes, God respects free will, just as Krishna said to Arjuna, "Now deliberate fully and do as you wish to do." Animals do not have the requisite intelligence to consciously desire liberation, since they have "stunted consciousness," as it is said in Jaiva Dharma. However, certain souls entrapped in animal bodies unconsciously desire spiritual advancement. They ARE soul, after all, and all souls ultimately seek spiritual advancement, even though most are in ignorance. One example of that is my cat: If I am chanting nicely, he becomes attracted and comes close to me. He cannot chant himself, but he appreciates my chanting, sometimes. Another time, I was walking along a beach and a very elderly seal was sitting on the beach, in obvious distress from old age and battling the waves for years, and likely tiring of rotating in samsara. I chanted for that seal for 45 minutes, the best japa I have ever chanted in my life. That seal listened for 45 minutes, and I felt that God had sent me to walk near that beach just so that seal could get some benefit of hearing the Holy Names. Also, I have had a plant in my house since 1981. That plant must have some sincere desire to hear japa; otherwise it could have been born in a forest or elsewhere where there is no possibility of hearing the Holy Names.

 

I should also like to touch on the topic of sukriti or punya, as only those souls imbued with sufficient piety, or merit, have the opportunity to come into contact with Bhagavan.

 

Amlesh's understanding is an even higher level of realization. I believe he means that the bhakta does not even aspire for liberation. The bhakta simply wants to serve life after life in any body in any capacity. See Narada Visits Dwarka in Krishna Book (Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto) for further reading on this topic. Amlesh is suggesting that bhakti is beyond mukti, liberation. Mukti is considered to be included within prema bhakti, by the Vaishnavas; there is no need to aspire for mukti separately.

Regards, jeffster/AMd

[Guest SalvageMe]

I can't comprehend your last paragraph but your compassion for animals and plants is beautiful.

[Amlesh]

When an animal is killed by an ordinary being certainly I'll cry but I'll be jealous of the very animal who has been killed by the hand of Sri Ram.

I'm longing for that type of death.

[jeffster]

" I can't comprehend your last paragraph but your compassion for animals and plants is beautiful." - SalvageMe

 

My meaning is only that if we practice bhakti, there is no need to aspire separately for mukti, as mukti is a by-product of the practice of bhakti. One who practices bhakti yoga attains mukti automatically. And in another sense, the bhakta is so fulfilled in bhakti that he does not care if he takes future births, he just wants to continue to serve and remember his Lord in any capacity, on any planet, in any body.

 

Amlesh, we can also kill our ahankara, false ego, by drowning it in the Holy Names, thereby becoming free from samsara, rebirth, and taking one final spiritual birth into our siddha deha, eternal spiritual identity.

 

Blessed Ram Navami to all, this day.

 

jeffster/AMd

[Guest SalvageMe]

Nowhere it is mentioned that the animal hunted by Ram had any Bhakti.

[jeffster]

Ultimately we can only take it as Ram's mercy, sometimes difficult to understand. I was only suggesting that although animals cannot practice bhakti, somewhere in their psyche there must have been some desire to contact Ram, which manifested due to sukriti from prior births.

jeffster/AMd

[sant]

WHERE IS IT FROM?

Then that resolute Rama on going into forest along with Soumitri hunted a robust-bodied, big Rohi animal, or, Kesari animal, and then he spread sacred grass on ground to place that offering to the deceased soul of that bird. [3-68-32

[Amlesh]

Even Ravana appeared to have no Bhakti.. infact, He was against the Lord.

But he attained His Abode.

 

Whatever it seems in appearance is not necessarily the same in substance.

[jeffster]

"Whatever it seems in appearance is not necessarily the same in substance." - Amlesh

 

Yes !!

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

What is described here is the Pitru Yajna, or oblations to the forefathers. Ramachandra performed this sacrifice for an animal (Jatayu), accepting Jatayu as his own family member despite him being in an animal body.

 

This sacrifice is done to appease the forefathers, not for the purpose of eating meat. This sacrifice was subsequently forbidden to be performed in the age of Kali (the present time period):

 

asvamedham gavalambham

sannyasam palapaitrkam

devarena sutopattim

kalau panca vivarjayet

"Five things are forbidden in the age of Kali - horse-sacrifice, cow-sacrifice, acceptance of sannyasa, offering flesh to the forefathers (pitru yajna) and begetting a child in the womb of the wife of one’s elder brother."

- Brahma Vaivarta Purana (Krsna-jnama Khanda 185.180)

[sambya]

 

God is magnanimous, is He not ? If God wishes to benedict a particular soul, He can certainly do it. We call it "causeless mercy." For no apparent reason, God (Rama) can and does benedict a particular soul, without even any effort on that soul's part. In other words, under certain circumstances, liberation IS possible without personal effort.

 

 

liberation is not possible without personal effort . ofcourse there are numerous apparent cases where we see most fallen of souls to get liberation directly through the grace of some avatar . but in such a case it is to be understood that that person has the highest accumulated spritual insights from previous births . it is not possible for any ordinary individual to become a lila-sangi( helper in lila ) of lord himself without any effort . millions of years of penence and yearning enables a soul to come in contact with an avatar . any person getting such liberation must have been spiritual in his previous births .

[jeffster]

Sambya, I touched on your ideas posted in # 17 in the 2nd paragraph of my post # 7, when I said, "I should also like to touch on the topic of sukriti or punya, as only those souls imbued with sufficient piety, or merit, have the opportunity to come into contact with Bhagavan." So we are not in disagreement here. Yet, for you to say "liberation is not possible without personal effort." somehow puts limitations on Krishna, who as we know, is unlimited. Perhaps it is more correct is to say that liberation is not likely without personal effort, but not impossible. Prabhupad used to say that "impossible" is a word in a fool's dictionary. With Krishna, anything must be possible.

Regards, jeffster/AMd

[sambya]

 

. Perhaps it is more correct is to say that liberation is not likely without personal effort, but not impossible.

 

oh yes !! thats correct . what can be impossible for god himself ? its 'unlikely' but not 'impossible ' .

 

but if he (god) gives liberation to someone without his striving for it , it might amount to partiality . because numerous souls crying for liberation are not getting it . i guess thats what keeps him from giving unasked liberation . he he ......

 

 

ultimately who knows the way of god ?? none .............

[jeffster]

Yes, God is acintya, inconceivable, it is not our place to know Him or His ways fully.

 

"Numerous souls crying for liberation are not getting it." Are they crying from the very depth of their heart ? Krishna knows their heart, and the level of their sincerity. Only when we are willing to sacrifice our very breath do we become qualified to go to His abode. Jesus said something also, which I will attempt to paraphrase - something to the effect of ""not all who cry "Lord, Lord" will be able to enter His kingdom.""

 

jeffster/AMd

[empy]

I just chanced on the discussion. If as per jeffster "If that soul came into contact with Lord Rama, that meeting could be not other than auspicious for that soul. Just as all those who died within sight of Lord Krishna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra attained liberation.

 

If that is true, there should be somebody in this present age too, and by coming in contact with him, we can easily attain mukti. Is there one?-prasad.sh

[jeffster]

Hello prasad,

According to Brahma Gaudiya Vaishnavism, that someone was Lord Chaitanya, who appeared in 1486 and stayed on the planet for 48 years. He taught us to easily gain Krishna-bhakti, encompassing mukti, by chanting the maha-mantra, the great chanting for deliverance in this difficult age of Kali-yuga, this degraded iron age of quarrel and hypocrisy. The maha-mantra you may know as the Hare Krishna maha-mantra:

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare

Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Regards, jeffster/AMd

[sant]

Empty it is very rare that the lord comes down on this earth though there are many who claim to be incarnations satya sai nirmala devi present day kalki avtar claimer even baba gangaram is being considered a vishnu avtar by some

[jeffster]

Empy, there is no scheduled incarnation until Kalki avatar appears next, in about 427,000 more years !! This would be a very long wait !! Best to chant the Holy Names NOW in order to have direct and timely divine communion with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna. His names are transcendental, unlike ordinary names, which only represent an object, but are not synomymous with it. The Lord's names and He are non-different, thereby practically guaranteeing you a transcendentally refreshing experience. Try it !

jeffster/AMd

[empy]

Thank you jeffster.

 

I am a devotee of lord krishna, and Lord balaji, and Shiridi sai. - Chanting the lord's names- I do. thanks.-Prasad.