Who's God

[sant]

HAS ANYONE SEEN GOD?

ACCORDING TO SHATRAS WHO IS GOD?

 

 

 

 

SRIMAD BHAGWAT SAYS KRISHNA

OTHERS CALL HIM BRAHMAN

SHIVA PURAAN STATES SHIVA IS GOD

 

 

 

SHIVA PURAAN AND BHAGWATI TEXTS SAY THAT GOD IS BRAHMAN

WITHOUT ATTRIBUTES BUT STIIL CALL SHIVA AND DEVI GOD

THEIR AIM IS MOKSH ONENESS WITH BRAHMAN

BUT VAISHNAV TEXTS ASAY THAT KRISHNA IS BASIS OF BRAHMAN LIKE BHAGWAD GITA BRAHM SAMHITA

 

 

 

IF BRAHMAN IS GOD THEN WE ARE GOD AS WE ARE BRAHMAN

THEN THERE IS NO NEED OF GOD?

 

 

WHAT IS THE STATE OF DEVI JNANIS AFTER MOKSH?

AND STATE OF SHIVA jNANIS?

 

 

 

POINT OF PRAYING WHEN WE OURSELF ARE GOD

[visnujana]

Who is God for who? God (the Absolute Truth) has many aspects. Everyone realizes God according to one's own ability (adhikara).

 

Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan.

S.B. 1.2.11

 

 

Realization of the Lord without energies is brahman. Realization of the Lord as a subtle being pervading the material universe is paramatma. Realization of the Lord in full with all qualities is bhagavan. Realization of bhagavan pervaded by majesty is called Narayana, the lord of Lakshmi. Realization of the Lord pervaded by sweetness is called Krishna, the lord of Radha.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

[sant]

thank you a lot

[sant]

but i mam going to post a thread which is shocking please await for a few minutes

[kaisersose]

 

HAS ANYONE SEEN GOD?

ACCORDING TO SHATRAS WHO IS GOD?

 

 

 

 

SRIMAD BHAGWAT SAYS KRISHNA

OTHERS CALL HIM BRAHMAN

SHIVA PURAAN STATES SHIVA IS GOD

 

 

 

SHIVA PURAAN AND BHAGWATI TEXTS SAY THAT GOD IS BRAHMAN

WITHOUT ATTRIBUTES BUT STIIL CALL SHIVA AND DEVI GOD

THEIR AIM IS MOKSH ONENESS WITH BRAHMAN

BUT VAISHNAV TEXTS ASAY THAT KRISHNA IS BASIS OF BRAHMAN LIKE BHAGWAD GITA BRAHM SAMHITA

 

 

 

IF BRAHMAN IS GOD THEN WE ARE GOD AS WE ARE BRAHMAN

THEN THERE IS NO NEED OF GOD?

 

 

WHAT IS THE STATE OF DEVI JNANIS AFTER MOKSH?

AND STATE OF SHIVA jNANIS?

 

 

 

POINT OF PRAYING WHEN WE OURSELF ARE GOD

 

You can start by learning to write coherently. That would mean, using the right case, appropriate punctuations and complete sentences.

 

Where does the Shiva Purana say "Brahman is attributeless, but we assign Shiva's form to him anyway"?

 

Where does the Shiva Purana say the goal is to merge with Brahman?

 

If you are copy-pasting this nonsense from some Vaishnava source (you most likely are), then my advice is go find something better to do with your time. It is highly unlikely that anyone here will be inspired by your posts enough to switch from Shaiva to Vaishnava.

 

Cheers

[sant]

Dear Kaisersose Isnt The Shivling Attributeless- Nirguna Niraaakar Isnt He Base Of Rudradev

Didnt It Appear When Brahma Vishnu Were Fighting

And Claimed To Be God According To Shiva Purana

Please Read It

[gHari]

Who's God? Whose God? Your God? You're God?

 

Whatever.

[bhaktajan]

How about who's Avatara incarnated last or most recently . . . Hmm, say, within the last five 5,000 years . . . Hmm, Oh I know! Chaitanya Mahaprabhu!

 

I think it's fair to say Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is God incarnate [during the 16th Century].

 

Anyone need proof?

 

Anyone need upanishad proofs to pledge pranams to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?

 

Still looking for something different from the masses?

[Sonic Yogi]

Krishna is God.

If you don't believe me, then just ask me and I will tell you again.

 

God means "Supreme Being" who is the Supreme Controller and origin of all creations.

 

That would be Krishna.

But, he has his little helpers like Brahma, Siva and Yamaraja.

[sant]

dear sonic yogi even i have fatih in prabhupada books

but i want to say that god is only impersonal brahman according to shakt and shaiv texts EXAMPLE:

shivling is attributeless and nirguna form of god as written in shiva puraan.

he is known as shiv/sadahshiv and is not rudradev

rudra dev is only a part of him as according to the puraan

 

even devi bhagwat says about god being formless atrribute less they just call her shakti AND MAA

kali is a small form of that shakti just like lakshmi

 

and vaishnav philosophy says that krishna is basis of that brahman aint i right?

 

 

krishna is not subservient to that brahman

so their is a big difference

i am saying that

 

and kaisersose please get your shaiv right

[bhaktajan]

Please check out this reference to Vishnu & His Shakti incarnating for the first time --it is found in the story of 'Uttana ekadasi'

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1120168&postcount=3

 

reprinted below:

Excerpted from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana:

Lord Sri Krishna:

“I will tell you why Ekadasi is the most purifying of all days.

In the Satya-Yuga there once lived an amazingly fearsome demon called Mura.

Always very angry, he terrified all the demigods, defeating even Indra, the king of heaven; Vivasvan, the sun-god; the eight Vasus; Lord Brahma; Vayu. the wind-god; and Agni, the fire-god. With his terrible power he brought them all under his control.

 

"'Lord Indra then approached Lord Shiva and said, "We have all fallen from our planets and are now wandering helplessly on the earth. O lord, how can we find relief from this affliction? What will be the fate of us demigods?'

 

"'Lord Shiva replied, "O best of the demigods, go to that place where Lord Vishnu, the rider of Garuda, resides. He is Jagannatha, the master of all the universes and their shelter as well. He is devoted to protecting all souls surrendered to Him.'"

 

"Lord Krishna continued, 'O Arjuna, winner of wealth, after Lord Indra heard these words of Lord Shiva's, he proceeded with all the demigods to the place where Lord Jagannatha, the Lord of the universe, the protector of all souls, was resting.

Seeing the Lord sleeping upon the water, the demigods joined their palms and, led by Indra, recite the following prayers:

 

"'"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, all obeisances to You. O Lord of lords, O You who are praised by the foremost demigods, O enemy of all demons, O lotus-eyed Lord, O Madhusudana (killer of the Madhu demon), please protect us. Afraid of the demon Mura, we demigods have come to take shelter of You. O Jagannatha, You are the doer of everything and the creator of everything. You are the mother and the father of all universes. You are the creator, the maintainer, and the destroyer of all. You are the supreme helper of all the demigods, and You alone can bring peace to them. You alone are the earth, the sky, and the universal benefactor.

 

"'"You are Shiva, Brahma, and also Vishnu, the maintainer of the three worlds. You are the gods of the sun, moon, and fire. You are the clarified butter, the oblation, the sacred fire, the mantras, the rituals, the priests, and the silent chanting of japa. You are the sacrifice itself, its sponsor, and the enjoyer of its results, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nothing within these three worlds, whether moveable or immovable, can exist independent of You.

O Supreme Lord, Lord of lords, You are the protector of those who take shelter of You. O supreme mystic, O shelter of the fearful, please rescue and protect us. We demigods have been defeated by the demons and have thus fallen from the heavenly realm. Deprived of our positions, O Lord of the universe, we are now wandering about this earthly planet."'

 

"Lord Krsna continued, 'Having heard Indra and the other demigods speak these words, Sri Vishnu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, replied, "What demon possesses such great powers of delusion that he has been able to defeat all the demigods? What is his name, and where does he live? Where does he get his strength and shelter? Tell Me everything, O Indra, and do not fear."

 

"'Lord Indra replied, "O Supreme Godhead, O Lord of lords, O You who vanquish the fear in Your pure devotees' hearts, O You who are so kind to your faithful servants, there was once a powerful demon of the Brahma dynasty whose name was Nadijangha. he was extraordinarily fearsome and wholly dedicated to destroying the demigods, and he begot an infamous son named Mura.

 

cont'd . . .

[bhaktajan]

"'"Mura's great capital city is Chandravati. From that base the terribly evil and powerful Mura demon has conquered the whole world and brought all the demigods under his control, driving them out of their heavenly kingdom. He has assumed the roles of Indra, the king of heaven; Agni, the fire-god; Yama, the lord of death; Vayu, the wind-god; Isha, or Lord Shiva; Soma, the moon-god; Nairrti, the lord of the directions; and Pasi, or Varuna, the water-god. He has also begun emanating light in the role of the sun-god and has turned himself into the clouds as well. It is impossible for the demigods to defeat him. O Lord Vishnu, please kill tis demon and make the demigods victorious."

 

"'Hearing these words from Indra, Lord Janardana became very angry and said, "O powerful demigods, all together you may now advance on Mura's capital city of Chandravati." Encouraged thus, the assembled demigods proceeded to Chandravati with Lord Hari leading the way.

 

"'When Mura saw the demigods, that foremost of demons started roaring very loudly in the company of countless thousands of other demons, who were all holding brilliantly shining weapons. The mighty-armed demons struck the demigods, who began abandoning the battlefield and fleeing in the ten directions.

Seeing the Supreme Lord Hrsikesha, the master of the senses, present on the battlefield, the furious demons rushed toward Him with various weapons in their hands. As they charged the Lord, who holds a sword, disk, and club, He immediately pierced all their limbs with His sharp, poisonous arrows. thus many hundred of demons died by the Lord's hand.

 

"'At last the chief demon, Mura, began fighting with the Lord. Mura used his mystic power to render useless whatever weapons the Supreme Lord Hrsikesa unleashed. Indeed, to the demon the weapons felt just like flowers striking him. When the Lord could not defeat the demon even with various kinds of weapons - whether those that are thrown or those that are held - He began fighting with His bare hands, which were as strong as iron-studded clubs.

The Lord wrestled with Mura for one thousand celestial years and then, apparently fatigued, left for Badarikashrama. There Lord Yogeshvara, the greatest of all yogis, the Lord of the universe, entered a very beautiful cave named Himavati to rest.

O Dhananjaya, winner of wealth, that cave was ninety-six miles in diameter and had only one entrance. I went there out of fear, and also to sleep. There is no doubt about this, O son of Pandu, for the great fight made me very tired. the demon followed Me into that cave and, seeing Me asleep, started thinking within his heart, "Today I will kill this slayer of all demons, Hari."

 

"'While the wicked-minded Mura was making plans in this way, from My body there manifested a young girl who had a very bright complexion. O son of Pandu, Mura saw that she was equipped with various brilliant weapons and was ready to fight.

Challenged by that female to do battle, Mura prepared himself and then fought with her, but he became very astonished when he saw that she fought him without cessation. The king of the demons then said, "Who has created this angry, fearsome girl who is fighting me so powerfully, just like a thunderbolt falling upon me?' After saying this, the demon continued to fight with the girl.

 

"'Suddenly that effulgent goddess shattered all of Mura's weapons and in a moment deprived him of his chariot. He ran toward her to attacker with his bare hands, but when she saw him coming she angrily cut off his head.

Thus the demon at once fell to the ground and went to the abode of Yamaraja. The rest of the Lord's enemies, out of fear and helplessness, entered the subterranean Patala region.

 

"'Then the Supreme Lord woke up and saw the dead demo before Him, as well as the maiden bowing down to him with joined palms. His face expressing His astonishment, the Lord of the universe said, "Who has killed this vicious demon? He easily defeated all the demigods, Gandharvas, and even Indra himself, along with Indra's companions, the Maruts, and he also defeated the Nagas (snakes), the rulers of the lower planets.

He even defeated Me, making Me hide in this cave out of fear. Who is it that has so mercifully protected Me after I ran from the battlefield and went to sleep in this cave?"

 

"'The maiden said, "It is I who have killed this demon after appearing from Your transcendental body. Indeed, O Lord Hari, when he saw You sleeping he wanted to kill You. Understanding the intention of this thorn in the side of the three worlds, I killed the evil rascal and this freed all the demigods from fear.

I am Your great maha-sakti, Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. I have killed this universally terrifying demon to protect the three worlds. Please tell me why You are surprised to see that this demon has been killed, O Lord."

 

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O sinless one, I am very satisfied to see that it is you who have killed this king of the demons. In this way you have made the demigods happy, prosperous, and full of bliss.

Because you have given pleasure to all the demigods in the three worlds, I am very pleased with you. Ask any boon you may desire, O auspicious one. I will give it to you without a doubt, though it be very rare among the demigods."

 

""The maiden said, "O Lord, if You are pleased with me and wish to give me a boon, then give me the power to deliver from the greatest sins that person who fasts of this day.

I wish that half the pious credit obtained by one who fasts will accrue to one who eats only in the evening (abstaining from grains and beans), and that half of this pious credit will be earned by one who eats only at midday.

Also, may one who strictly observes a complete fast on my appearance day, with controlled senses, go to the abode of Lord Vishnu for one billion kalpas after he has enjoyed all kinds of pleasures in this world.

This is the boon I desire to attain by Your mercy, my Lord, O Lord Janardana, whether a person observes complete fasting, eats only in the evening, or eats only at midday, please grant him a religious attitude, wealth, and at last liberation."

 

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O most auspicious lady, what you have requested is granted. All My devotees in this world will surely fast on your day, and thus they will become famous throughout the three worlds and finally come and stay with me in My abode. Because you, My transcendental potency, have appeared on the eleventh day of the waning moon, let your name by Ekadasi. If a person fasts on Ekadasi, I will burn up all his sins and bestow upon him My transcendental abode.

 

"'"These are the days of the waxing and waning moon that are most dear to Me: Tritiya (the third day), Ashthami (the eighth day), Navami (the ninth day), Chaturdasi (the fourteenth day), and especially Ekadasi (the eleventh day).

 

"'"The merit one attains by fasting on Ekadasi is greater than that achieved by observing any other kind of fast or by going to a place of pilgrimage, and even greater than that achieved by giving charity to brahmanas. I tell you most emphatically that this is true."

 

"'Having thus given the maiden His benediction, the Supreme Lord suddenly disappeared. From that time onward the Ekadasi day became most meritorious and famous all over the universe. O Arjuna, if a person strictly observes Ekadasi, I kill all his enemies and grant him the highest destination. Indeed, if a person observes this great Ekadasi fast in any of the prescribed way, I remove all obstacles to his spiritual progress and grant him the perfection of life.

 

"'Thus, O son of Prtha, I have described to you the origin of Ekadasi. This one day removes all sins eternally. Indeed, it is the most meritorious day for destroying all kinds of sins, and it has appeared in order to benefit everyone in the universe by bestowing all varieties of perfection.

 

This was excerpted from Utpanna Ekadasi [from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana] as found in the celebrated book, "Ekadasi: The Day of Lord Hari" 1986. pages 13 - 22. HH Krishna Balaram Swami. Bhaktivedanta Institute Press.

[bhaktajan]

My speculation of the 'Shakt' question is thus:

 

Bhaktajan sought to show that “Devi’s” existence required finding an appropriate Husband.

 

For example,

 

1] Krishna's 'internal-pleasure potentcy' is considered feminine (the energy) and, Krishna is considered mascaline (the energetic).

 

Krishna's 'internal-pleasure potentcy' could stay in a nidra-Narayana (Mahavishnu's sleep) state until the creative-potency stirs -- thus, necessitating the Masculine Feature of the Purusha (Persona) to consort with.

 

IOW Hara awoke, thus, causing Adi-Purusha to sporting pastimes.

 

2] If Durga exists then it is required to find the best suited husband . . . Voila! --and who do you think that would be?

 

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[sant]

Ok What Does Ekadashi Do Here?

[Guest Melvin1]

God to me is that wonderful boy who convinced her girlfriend Radha to let him draw circles on her chest; who stole the gopi`s clothes while they were bathing in the Yamuna river; who lifted up Govardhana hill with his finger; who sucked milk from Putana`s breasts as well as her life air; who has a surabhi cow for his pet; who captivates everyone the moment he plays his flute; whose mouth you can see the whole universe inside.

[sant]

Very Beautifully You Said What You Beleive In Mr Melvin

[sant]

but i want to say that god is only impersonal brahman according to shakt and shaiv PHILOSOPHY

EXAMPLE:

shivling is attributeless and nirguna form of god as written in shiva puraan.

he is known as shiv/sadahshiv and is not rudradev

rudra dev is only a part of him as according to the SHIVA puraan

 

even devi bhagwat says about god being formless atrribute less AND GENDERLESS they just call her shakti AND MAA

kali is a small form of that shakti just like lakshmi

 

BUT vaishnav philosophy says that krishna is basis of that brahman aint i right?

 

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham

amṛtasyāvyayasya ca

śāśvatasya ca dharmasya

sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

SYNONYMS

brahmaṇaḥ — of the impersonal brahmajyoti; hi — certainly; pratiṣṭhā — the rest; aham — I am; amṛtasya — of the immortal; avyayasya — of the imperishable; ca — also; śāśvatasya — of the eternal; ca — and; dharmasya — of the constitutional position; sukhasya — of happiness; aikāntikasya — ultimate; ca — also.

TRANSLATION

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 14.27

 

 

krishna is not subservient to that brahman

so their is a big difference

[Guest Melvin1]

I think this topic can be answered by this question, which came first the chicken or the egg?

[sant]

how?

what are you saying

[gHari]

There's a pair

Made in heaven.

[bhaktajan]

 

god is only impersonal brahman according to shakti and shaivite PHILOSOPHY

EXAMPLE:

shiva-lingam is attributeless and nirguna form of god as written in shiva puraan.

he is known as shiv/sadahshiv and is not rudradev

rudra dev is only a part of him as according to the SHIVA puraan

 

even devi bhagwat says about god being formless atrribute less AND GENDERLESS they just call her shakti AND MAA

kali is a small form of that shakti just like lakshmi

 

BUT vaishnav philosophy says that krishna is basis of that brahman aint i right?

 

krishna is not subservient to that brahman

so their is a big difference

 

1] WHO IS DEVI? [iMO~per my own latest studies]:

'Then the Supreme Lord woke up and saw the dead demon before Him, as well as the maiden bowing down to him with joined palms. His face expressing His astonishment, the Lord of the universe said, "Who has killed this vicious demon? He easily defeated all the demigods, Gandharvas, and even Indra himself, along with Indra's companions, the Maruts, and he also defeated the Nagas (snakes), the rulers of the lower planets.

He even defeated Me, making Me hide in this cave out of fear. Who is it that has so mercifully protected Me after I ran from the battlefield and went to sleep in this cave?"

 

"'The maiden said, "It is I who have killed this demon after appearing from Your transcendental body. Indeed, O Lord Hari, when he saw You sleeping he wanted to kill You. Understanding the intention of this thorn in the side of the three worlds, I killed the evil rascal and this freed all the demigods from fear.

I am Your great maha-sakti, Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. I have killed this universally terrifying demon to protect the three worlds. Please tell me why You are surprised to see that this demon has been killed, O Lord."

 

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O sinless one, I am very satisfied to see that it is you who have killed this king of the demons. In this way you have made the demigods happy, prosperous, and full of bliss.

Because you have given pleasure to all the demigods in the three worlds, I am very pleased with you. Ask any boon you may desire, O auspicious one. I will give it to you without a doubt, though it be very rare among the demigods."

 

2] The Bliss of brahman that a neophyte may have an enthralling fleeting glimpse or a common person may call "Happy Halmark Moments//A Sense of Accomplishment" or a devotee in samadhi may feel continuously is actually a state of 'self-satisfaction' [atma-rama] --these are all accomplished the same way [each with different POVs]: via KNOWLEDGE & DETACHMENT.

 

3] There are no conflicts or contradictions. It's HISTORY! Puranas are historical records of Lord Brahma's progeny --whose superlative FAME lights the way to people/Time/Places/Events that are of great sentimental value to those in the stories themselves especially those still alive and those who descend from them and their relatives --all among the Devalokas. And we are privy to it --thus it shines light down from it's own recitation [brahma-sabda] --an thus of great personal ______*_______ value.

 

[* Spiritual/scientific/societal/Transcendental/miserly --you can choose what 'to value'!)]

 

Seeming contradictions are due to time and circumstance of the occurance [in contrast to earlier vs later events]--thus the GREAT PERSONALITY in a particular story, by observance of proper protocol, will be address as Maharaja, Bhagavan, Ishvara, Sahib, tsar, Il Capo, Chief, 4-Star General, Airport Sercurity, Boss . . . Pati, Maharani, --all inorder to get MY WAY done as I desire.

 

4] "Causeless Mercy".

 

I got causeless Mercy. All the types of 'transcendentalists' ie, Jnani's & Yogis & Bhaktas got their causeless mercy. Without it we'd be scavaging for food and shelter in the water, ground, leaves, tree bark, or soaring above the Tree Canopys or subway tunnels. Causeless mercy means that we make plans/God laughs, we pay taxes, accrue new karma and yet "satisfaction of the self is SOMEHOW acheived".

 

You choose, if you can:

 

No "Causeless Mercy".

Smallest of all "Causeless Mercy".

Smallest "Causeless Mercy".

Very Small "Causeless Mercy".

Small "Causeless Mercy".

Some "Causeless Mercy".

Average "Causeless Mercy".

Best "Causeless Mercy".

Better "Causeless Mercy".

Big "Causeless Mercy".

Best "Causeless Mercy".

Confidential "Causeless Mercy".

More-Confidential "Causeless Mercy".

Most "Causeless Mercy".

 

If you want it baby.

 

5] Yes I agree with you that the Shivites etc are actually 'covered-impersonalists' where 'brahman' is their goal and the Deity is a piece of paraphenalia to facilitate . . . ultimately a show of their personal piety.

[sant]

dear bhaktjan is there anything wrong in worshipping the brahman if brahman is god>

 

please talk clearly on causeless mercy

why are you entering the ekadashi story here

ekadashi devi is not the only devi

[sant]

is that your picture?

[Sonic Yogi]

 

dear bhaktjan is there anything wrong in worshipping the brahman if brahman is god>

 

please talk clearly on causeless mercy

why are you entering the ekadashi story here

ekadashi devi is not the only devi

 

Nothing wrong with it if you are happy to dissolve your individual existence and enter into a oneness of undifferentiated light.

 

But, eternal life with eternal forms, eternal senses and eternal pleasures is more appealing to someone with a mind that has some thinking capacity.

 

No, you can't become God.

In the attempt to become God you simple becoming NOTHING.

[Guest Melvin1]

 

dear bhaktjan is there anything wrong in worshipping the brahman if brahman is god>

 

please talk clearly on causeless mercy

why are you entering the ekadashi story here

ekadashi devi is not the only devi

 

In the Brahma-samhita, it is stated that the workings of the supremely powerful superintendent, Durga ( mahamaya), are but the shadowy indications of the workings of God Krsna but in the spiritual world there is another superior spiritual energy which is, Radha ( yogamaya) , the internal potency of God Krsna. When the living entity puts himself under the direction of yogamaya instead of mahamaya, he gradually becomes a devotee of God Krsna. Yet those who are after material opulence and material happiness place themselves under the care of the material energy, mahamaya, or, under the care of material demigods like Siva and others.

 

Taken from the book Teachings of Lord Caitanya Chapter 30 page 311.