Moksha

[ranjeetmore]

Vivekananda tried to justify Buddhism.Ramakrishna kept quite.

 

So how can this person know the essence of Mayavada,even ??

[sambya1]

 

"He Who was Rama and Krisna is now in this body."

"I have seen God more clearly than i can see you."

"The 19 symptoms that are manifested during mahabhava have manifested in my body at once.It takes one whole lifetime for even one of these symptoms to manifest in another devotee."

"Did you tell him that I am an incarnation ? What did he say ?"

"You are vishnu(to vivekananda)"

 

 

whats the big deal ???

 

dont you know that he attained nirvikalpa and was a advaitin ? advaitic veiwpoint does'nt consider it sinful for anyone to think of himself as god at the highest point of realization . and ramakrishna was undisputedly situated on such a platform .......

 

he realized his 'oneness' with rama and krishna as per advaitic sadhana . you are repeatedly verifying things in a dualistic light .

 

and remember that dinabhav (extreme idealistic humilty ) that you are glorifying in chaitanya is only appriciated in vaishnav sadhana . others like shaivas shaktas or advaitas carry more of virabhava . there's nothing to condemn .

 

 

most people who came in contact with ramakrishna thought of him as an avatar . but in almost all of the cases he (ramakrishna) refused to accept this . right now im remembering a situation where he said back to the person who glorified him as an avataar -- ' dont ever say such things, we are the ocean's(god) waves(jiva) . no one says wave's ocean . '

 

but there were some isolated incidents where he was silent in samadhi when asked about his divinity( avataar ) . and there were some vague dialogue between him and his disciples which to his follower's conviction is an indication of his hidden divinity . but such phrases are vague and carry many meaning . and many contemporary intellectual and aristocratic individuals of calcutta accepted him as an avataar silently . thats all for his avatrhood .

 

and i'll get you the references where gouranga accepted his divinity by showing silence or direct speech . just give me some time .......

 

dont go by what they said . realize the noble god intoxicated life they have led . take the best out of these god-men .

 

 

check out his life and work ...... not some isolated comments made in a different light .

 

 

I frankly have no knowledge about the position of Ramakrishna(avatar or not),but I'm sure about one thing : Sri Ramakrishna is Like Sri Shankaracharya and Bhagavan Buddha.

 

that puts it . equating him with shankara or buddha automatically makes him an avataar . dont waste time in evaluating saints . live life as per their teachings . they did not come to preach their name . they came to glorify righteousness and god ............

 

 

 

 

Vivekananda tried to justify Buddhism

 

you are saying this because you have not read anything substantial about him . you dont know how much he crticised buddhism for bringing about a unintentional ruin to our land . read before you talk...

[bhaktajan]

 

 

 

BG 8.12

 

[Lord Çré Kåñëa said:] The yogic situation is that of detachment from all sensual engagements. Closing all the doors of the senses and fixing the mind on the heart and the life air at the top of the head, one establishes himself in yoga.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

To practice yoga as suggested here, one first has to close the doors of all sense enjoyment.

This practice is called pratyähära, or withdrawing the senses from the sense objects.

The sense organs for acquiring knowledge—the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and touch—should be fully controlled and should not be allowed to engage in self-gratification.

In this way the mind focuses on the Supersoul in the heart, and the life force is raised to the top of the head. . . . this practice is not practical in this age. The best process is Kåñëa consciousness.

If one is always able to fix his mind on Kåñëa in devotional service, it is very easy for him to remain in an undisturbed transcendental trance, or in samädhi.

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BG 2.64

 

 

[Lord Çré Kåñëa said:] But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain the complete mercy of the Lord.

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BG 6.35:

 

 

Lord Çré Kåñëa said: O mighty-armed son of Kunté, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by suitable practice and by detachment.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

. . . What is that practice? In the present age no one can observe the strict rules and regulations of placing oneself in a sacred place, focusing the mind on the Supersoul, restraining the senses and mind, observing celibacy, remaining alone, etc.

By the practice of Kåñëa consciousness, however, one engages in nine types of devotional service to the Lord. The first and foremost of such devotional engagements is hearing about Kåñëa.

This is a very powerful transcendental method for purging the mind of all misgivings. The more one hears about Kåñëa, the more one becomes enlightened and detached from everything that draws the mind away from Kåñëa.

By detaching the mind from activities not devoted to the Lord, one can very easily learn vairägya. Vairägya means detachment from matter and engagement of the mind in spirit.

Impersonal spiritual detachment is more difficult than attaching the mind to the activities of Kåñëa.

This is practical because by hearing about Kåñëa one becomes automatically attached to the Supreme Spirit. This attachment is called pareçänubhava, spiritual satisfaction. . . .

=======================================================

 

 

 

BG17.28

 

 

[Lord Çré Kåñëa said:] Anything done as sacrifice, charity or penance without faith in the Supreme, O son of Påthä, is impermanent. It is called asat and is useless both in this life and the next.

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BG 15.1 Purport

 

 

. . . The entanglement of this material world is compared here to a banyan tree. For one who is engaged in fruitive activities, there is no end to the banyan tree. He wanders from one branch to another, to another, to another.

The tree of this material world has no end, and for one who is attached to this tree, there is no possibility of liberation. The Vedic hymns, meant for elevating oneself, are called the leaves of this tree. . . . The root of this material existence grows upward.

This means that it begins from the total material substance, from the topmost planet of the universe. From there, the whole universe is expanded, with so many branches, representing the various planetary systems.

**The fruits represent the results of the living entities’ activities, namely, religion, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. . . . One who wants to get out of this material existence must know this tree thoroughly through analytical study. Then he can cut off his relationship with it.

This tree, being the reflection of the real tree, is an exact replica. Everything is there in the spiritual world. . . . But the origin from whence the reflection is reflected is eternal.

The material reflection of the real tree has to be cut off. When it is said that a person knows the Vedas, it is assumed that he knows how to cut off attachment to this material world. If one knows that process, he actually knows the Vedas.

One who is attracted by the ritualistic formulas of the Vedas is attracted by the beautiful green leaves of the tree. He does not exactly know the purpose of the Vedas. The purpose of the Vedas, as disclosed by the Personality of Godhead Himself, is to cut down this reflected tree and attain the real tree of the spiritual world.

[** DHARMA (religion), ARTHA (economic development), KAMA (sense gratification) and MOKSHA (liberation) = are the 4 aspirations sought out by sane persons and it is also the subject matter of the Vedas meant to make aspirants happy and satisfied throughout life and thus, culminating in Moksha —yet the absolute nature of "nature" alludes to a personal God —that is what we are all searching for— in the journey of the mystery of life]

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Every individual soul has their own eternal birth-right to never be dissolved.

The void is an absolute field in which all variety transpires —time and matter and energy exist within an absolute field.

An individual soul is an absolutely individual entitity composed of & inherently in possession of its own 'piece of Heaven' [it's own self-make-up] —yet it is "in separation" from the "whole".

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place> is revealed in the Vedas as that "whole" to which we souls in the material world seek-out to find a hint of during our sojourn in samsara.

[ranjeetmore]

Sambya adress the question first.

[Guest krsnah]

am I in moksha or not?

----------------------

[srikanthdk71]

 

What is moksha?

 

 

There is a 300plus posting thread called 'Is Mukti a Myth' which has great discussions both spiritual and scientific. It has postings from masters like Dark Warrior, Bija, Ramana Dasi, Radhika. I am sure you will get an answer there.

[chandu_69]

 

he was following ramakrishna who claims to be an avtar of vishnu

 

The same rk hamsa who saw god in a desert bandit???:rolleyes:

[ranjeetmore]

Yes,the same.The same one.

 

I deny,Decry, and totally boycott such a philosophy(Rk's).But this doesn't mean that ill feelings should be nursed toward the person.

 

To think that the most dark persons were freely singing Gaura Hari ! and Jaya Jagannatha ! under one roof,is possible only at the hands of a great personality.

[kaisersose]

 

The same rk hamsa who saw god in a desert bandit???:rolleyes:

 

Is there a problem with that? if yes, please explain for the benefit of everyone here.

 

Cheers

[chandu_69]

 

Is there a problem with that? if yes, please explain for the benefit of everyone here.

 

Cheers

 

Yes, i have a problem.Me thinks that is delusional.Any body who see a "radiant figure" in a caravan looter and slave trader is outright delusional.

[bhaktajan]

Yes, I too have a problem.Me thinks that is delusional.Any body who see a "radiant figure" in a caravan looter and slave trader is outright delusional.

 

<!-- / message -->But, on the other hand God incarnates and preaches according to the level of comprehension as per time and place . . .

[chandu_69]

 

Yes, I too have a problem.Me thinks that is delusional.Any body who see a "radiant figure" in a caravan looter and slave trader is outright delusional.

 

<!-- / message -->But, on the other hand God incarnates and preaches according to the level of comprehension as per time and place . . .

 

Hmmm, But god doesnt send people/prophets to bandits to do more bandity and be happy.

[bhaktajan]

So the pigmy, the aboriginal, the Tropical jungle dwellers never were given divine guidance?

 

Not possible that an 'uncivilised' tribesman could pray in such a way that it would be answered?

 

Could it have been a local Shaman that prayed for something to show the way to a meaningful life --that caused the conquistadors to arrive and pillage everything?

 

I can see how an avatar might appear to teach only a petty little primary lesson [in lieu of exposing God's majesty or personal pastimes].

 

It would seem that self-determination is required along with circumstance ergo, "time and place".

 

God appears as per time and place to teach the lesson appropiate for the audence that is present.

 

and also,

 

God appears as per time and place --when his own personal interests are made way for. No?

[chandu_69]

Bhakthajan,

 

This is my take...Briefly.

 

God doesnt feel angry if you dont worship him.

 

God doesnt tell you to kill a man and take his wife and children as slaves.

 

God doesnt send unethical characters to guide you.

[ranjeetmore]

God doesn't CARE if you worship Him or No.He is purnkaam.Atmarama.

BUT He is also an ocean of Compassion.

Bhagavan and Mahatma: These two personalities really feel very sad to see the misery of the conditioned souls.They always proclaim,"Oh just come here and see how blissful this is.Just come to ShyamaShyam.You won't have to face misery AGAIN."

 

Rk 'saw' God in a looter...this he said to signify the ''oneness'' that the jnanis describe.

Otherwise,he was very very strict about the conduct of his devotees.He would scream at his devotees if they said,"I am BrahmI am Narayana".

He said,"As long as you have a body,you are servant and He is master"

 

 

Rk was not unethical.If you say he was,explain why.

[chandu_69]

 

God doesn't CARE if you worship Him or No.He is purnkaam.Atmarama.

BUT He is also an ocean of Compassion.

Bhagavan and Mahatma: These two personalities really feel very sad to see the misery of the conditioned souls.They always proclaim,"Oh just come here and see how blissful this is.Just come to ShyamaShyam.You won't have to face misery AGAIN."

 

Rk 'saw' God in a looter...this he said to signify the ''oneness'' that the jnanis describe.

Otherwise,he was very very strict about the conduct of his devotees.He would scream at his devotees if they said,"I am BrahmI am Narayana".

He said,"As long as you have a body,you are servant and He is master"

 

 

Rk was not unethical.If you say he was,explain why.

 

I am not for a moment suggesting that rk is unethical.I am merely angered by his stupidity in seeing revelation in a charlatan criminal.

I agree with the rest of your comments except on rk.

[chandu_69]

 

So the pigmy, the aboriginal, the Tropical jungle dwellers never were given divine guidance?

I have no business to judge that cause i dont know the message.

 

 

Not possible that an 'uncivilised' tribesman could pray in such a way that it would be answered?

 

Ofcourse anybody can pray to god.All that matters is your intention.Krishna is divine because he doesnt bother about TAGS.He only bothers about Intention.

 

rest of comments snipped to make my response short and selective.

 

and also,

 

 

God appears as per time and place --when his own personal interests are made way for. No?

 

God has no personal interest.And i am adamant that God doesnt appear for small and petty things.If god appears on earth it will be with FULL OPULENCE.