ranjeetmore Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Dear fellow devotees, I understand that humans are creation of the almighty, created for the sake of his pleasure, and he plays with humans, as we play with toys. so, how can the humans be responsible for their actions, suffer consequences of their sins etc, when every thing is planned and controlled by god? or are we free, and not under his control?-Prasad. Yes.Very good question. Sri Tulsidasa states,"Oh Rama,All the living entities from Brahma to the most insifnificant ant is under your control.You are the Supreme Controller of all that be." This is true.So now what ? "Ram bharose khaike raho khaat pe soye." There is a saying in India,"Leave it all on Rama." The devotees can raise one question,"Why should we suffer for His Pleasure ?? If it His will,why are we suffering." Sri Maharajji expalains this(obviously with quotes galore) very nicely : This is very wrong to think(that Bhagavan makes us do the karm). The vedas state that Bhagavan/Paramatma PROVIDES the ENERGY with which the Jeevatma can actually work his senses. The upanishads state this at so many places. In THIS way,is He,the Supreme Controller.He doesn't CONTROL control our actions. He provides the power.He is the power house and we are a bulb.If the Power house refused to supply power,you would be in darkness. Thus He is the Bharta/the provider and we are the bhrtya/provided. BUT the Jeevatma ALWAYS HAS HIS OWN WILL.Otherwise the jeevatma would be as good as a rock.The rock has no will.It is jada/dead. By experience,it is 'I' who chose to watch the movie. It is 'I' who chose to eat this. Bhagavan did not make me do those things.He simply provides the power to do it(impartially as the paramatma.) So we should not blame Sri Bhagavan.Instead we should praise Him for His mercy and cultivate attachment towards Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranjeetmore Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Oh i forgot one very funny analogy of Sri Maharajji, "The river is flowing from the mountain to the sea.It is available to everyone.Now it depends on you,if you want to have a bath in it or you want to go and drown in it." Here,the river is the power supplied by the powerhouse/bhagavan. Everyone has this power to work his senses/mind/intelligence from bhagavan. You want to become pure,do bhakti.You want to go to hell,do all nonsense. It is YOUR will and not BHAGAVAN's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranjeetmore Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 "It rains everywhere uniformly.But still,it is seen that one tree has thorns and the other tree has fragrant and beautiful flowers and fruits.What is this ?? This is due to the different seeds.This is no fault of the rain,nor does the rain cause one tree to have thorns and the other one,fruits." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empy Posted May 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Thank you Ranjeetmore, You have rerailed the sidetracked discussion. Your quotations and examples were simple and up to the point. Post no 8 by narsingh and 12 by krsna also dealt the same point. Yes we have freewill, but when we surrender that to the God's lotusfeet, he will take care of us. Then it will not be necessary to blame him. He will make us realise, how he can take responsibilty of us, even better than ourselves. Simply surrender your free will to him. -Prasad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Destiny is the where we end up after we have made a choice to take one path or the other. Sonic Yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Our real destination is going home, Back to Godhead, Krsnah. So, prior to death one should chant Hare Krsnah Hare Krsnah Krsnah Krsnah Hare Hare ( Narada-pancaratra). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 ... From Primate's post # 37: " I agree that we will never be able to scientifically prove the existence of God. However, we may find compelling verifiable evidence that backs up Vedic spiritual knowledge as well as the claims of God realized individuals." Yes, this would be good if science would corroborate the truths that have been known to the sages for aeons. Then I guess we agree. By the way, science cannot prove that any physical theory is absolutely true. It can only infer from empirical data, the statistical likelihood of any particular theory or model to be absolutely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hello Primate, Yes, we agree. I would also add that the Greek philosopher Xeno declared that the spiritual realms were more solid and substantial than the material realms, which are insubstantial, due to their temporary and changeable nature. I hope this doesn't upset Empy, though, as this is slightly off-topic. Jes' sayin'... jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hello Primate,Yes, we agree. I would also add that the Greek philosopher Xeno declared that the spiritual realms were more solid and substantial than the material realms, which are insubstantial, due to their temporary and changeable nature. I hope this doesn't upset Empy, though, as this is slightly off-topic. Jes' sayin'... jeffster/AMd Ohh. me gosh! here comes empy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empy Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ohh. me gosh! here comes empy! <!-- / message --> Hi primate and jeffster, No. I am not upset. As long as the topic is confined to the main one, or related ones, it is fine. Only when I find some personal accusations, and one-upmanships, I am disturbed. So pl contnue. -Prasad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hello Empy, Jeffster and I just had a slightly 'off-topic' discussion about the relevance of science (physics) in the context of general spirituality and religion. We agreed that science actually can be a good thing, if it confirms - or even advances - our spiritual understanding of reality as it is. In fact, science is all about validating ideas.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hello Empy, Jeffster and I just had a slightly 'off-topic' discussion about the relevance of science (physics) in the context of general spirituality and religion. We agreed that science actually can be a good thing, if it confirms - or even advances - our spiritual understanding of reality as it is. In fact, science is all about validating ideas.. Our spiritual understanding of reality will never be complete if it`s not dovetailed with Krsnah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empy Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Our spiritual understanding of reality will never be complete if it`s not dovetailed with Krsnah. Spiritual understanding itself means understanding KC. It is the leading part, continuing part and also the dovetailed part. These topics and sub topics only help us reach him, and imbibe his qualities in a quicker and better way. -Prasad is it still "oh Gosh..empy"?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Spiritual understanding itself means understanding KC. It is the leading part, continuing part and also the dovetailed part. These topics and sub topics only help us reach him, and imbibe his qualities in a quicker and better way. -Prasad is it still "oh Gosh..empy"?" "You got it, empy!":bounce: So why can`t primates(bishops) & sants(kabirs) simply understand that statement from Prasad, empy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Spiritual understanding itself means understanding KC. It is the leading part, continuing part and also the dovetailed part. These topics and sub topics only help us reach him, and imbibe his qualities in a quicker and better way. -Prasad Agreed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Very nice question. All the replies are very detailed and informative. Topics like this really interest me. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Opinion Request: Of all the people, all over the world, who have lived, from let us say, 2,000 BCE until the 1800's CE --did not each and every person and also, each and every living creature "Live-out their destiny(s)?" The obvious, indoubtable response is 'Yes'. For those who will suggest that they still had free will to change their destiny(s) as they went along with their lives . . . [and I would agree] . . . but then still the senerio stays the same: Did all the people and every living creature, during the distant past until the recent past "Live-out their destiny(s)?" birth after birth after birth after birth etc.? Isn't it the wiser path to escape from the cycle of frutive acts --rather then be vested and permanently entrenched? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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