Drugs And Spirituality

[sant]

Are Marijuana And Drugs Help In Realization

Do They Help In Meditation

[sant]

Drugs,meat Alchohol Form A Big Path Of Tantra

So Can These Aid In Meditation

[Tirisilex]

There are some Shaivite sects who practice using marijuana.. I'm not sure how or why they use it.. I gave up that stuff a while ago.. It agitates my mind more than settle it..

[sant]

I Just Spoke To Someone Who Says Some Plant EnTHEOGEN Help In Going To A State And Krisna Speaks To Him

Read Ken111 Post

[sant]

Vedic SomaIn the Vedas, Soma is portrayed as sacred and as a god (deva). The god, the drink and the plant probably referred to the same entity, or at least the differentiation was ambiguous. Two holy drinks exist: Soma for the immortal soul and Amrita for the immortal body.

[WIKI SOMA]

[sant]

Srila Prabhupada: If drugs could help God realization, then drugs would be more powerful than God. How can we accept that? Drugs are chemical substances, which are material. How can something material help one realize God, who is all-spiritual? It is impossible. What one experiences from taking drugs is simply a kind of intoxication or hallucination; it is not God realization.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: Tobacco is also an intoxicant. We are already intoxicated by being in the bodily conception of life, and if we increase the intoxication, then we are lost.

Bill Faill: You mean things like meat, alcohol, and tobacco just reinforce bodily consciousness?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose you have a disease and you want to be cured. You have to follow the instructions of a physician. If he says, “Don’t eat this; eat only this,” you have to follow his prescription. Similarly, we also have a prescription for being cured of the bodily conception of life: chanting Hare Krsna, hearing about Krsna’s activities, and eating krsna-prasada. This treatment is the process of Krsna consciousness.

http://krishna.org/meditation-and-the-self-within/

[ken111]

From wikipedia:

An entheogen ("creates god within," en- "in, within," theo- "god, divine," -gen "creates, generates"), in the strictest sense, is a psychoactive substance used in a religious or shamanic context. Historically, entheogens are derived primarily from plant sources and have been used in a variety of traditional religious contexts.

Examples of entheogens from ancient sources include: Greek: kykeon; African: Iboga; Vedic: Soma, Amrit. Entheogens have been used in a ritualized context for thousands of years.

-----

 

For someone on the spiritual path, an entheogen can be of great help, it's like a guru, it teaches you, it talks to you, and in stronger doses lets you travel out of body to astral realms and higher dimensions.

 

Here is what a famous shaman Maria Sabina says about magic mushrooms:

 

"It's that in me there is no sorcery, there is no anger, there are no lies. Because I don't have garbage, I don't have dust. The sickness comes out if the sick vomit. They vomit the sickness. They vomit because the mushrooms want them to. If the sick don't vomit, I vomit. I vomit for them and in that way the malady is expelled. The mushrooms have power because they are the flesh of God. And those that believe are healed. Those that do not believe are not healed."

 

"I take Little-One-Who-Springs-Forth and I see God. I see him sprout from the earth. He grows and grows, big as a tree, as a mountain. His face is placid, beautiful, serene as in the temples. At other times, God is not like a man: he is the Book. A Book that is born from the earth, a sacred Book whose birth makes the world shake. It is the Book of God that speaks to me in order for me to speak. It counsels me, it teaches me, it tells me what I have to say to men, to the sick, to life. The Book appears and I learn new words."

[ken111]

First there is the consciousness of a great being, then the plant manifests out of the consciousness. Every plant is a manifestation of a great being.

It is not about the plant material, you can talk with and experience the plant-consciousness without eating the plant. This is why Soma also is seen as a god, first he is God, then he manifests his energy in plants so people in the material reality can get to know him.

 

It's my body that eats plants, not me.

It's my spirit that connects with the spirit of the plant, not me.

It's my soul that is one with the soul of the plant, not me.

I am the emptiness, I don't exist.

I am the unmanifest, I cannot be defined.

 

From Bhagavad Gita:

"I enter into each planet, and by My energy they stay in orbit. I become

the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all vegetables."

 

The plants contains the energy of Krishna.

 

Sure U can give up the Marijuana matter and sacrifice yourself to Krishna,

and then Krishna gives you spiritual Marijuana for free.

 

Give up everything, and you will gain everything.

Like they don't have Marijuana in heaven, of course they have,

only there it is made of spirit, and not matter.

[gHari]

Drugs may shake one out of their stupor of complacency, but that is all they can do. After that, it is time to get real.

[mahak]

The question is very good. There are many who affirm the spiritual path thru drugs, folks like allister crowley, timothy leary, et al. But the mystics and gurus always claim that such contact with spirituality thru drugs is artificial, and they are quite right, because when the effect of the drug wears off, so does the spiritual experiance.

 

Is it a spiritual experiance? Well, Im not an authority, but my opinion is "Yes, it is a spiritual experiance". Tainted by the temporary nature, it may not be the best way, but one cannot deny the spiritual nature. But upon further analysis, the experiancer plays a significant role, and if one is not spiritual anyway, drugs will not give a spiritual experiance. My yes is for those who are here on this forum, because a spiritual quest is obviously going on.

 

Ganja (I refuse to use the term "marijuana, because this term was coined by William Randolph Hearst in the late thirties for a specific reason; that is, to create fear on the basest levels of racism, fear of invading mexicans with their killer weed) is a perfect example of what Im saying above, about the user being either spiritual or anti-spiritual will play a role in the actual experiance. If one fancies himself as a guitar player, when he is high on kaliherb, he experiances enhancement of his music ability. Similarly, a person who is thrilled by spiritual stories, whether they be about chief joseph of the Nez perce or thrilled by the stories of Ghatocacca, reading on kaliherb will perhaps enhance the experiance. But conversely, a gangbanger who rapes and commits genocide against his own people will experiance great enhancement of his art of killing with his Uzi.

 

So, the drug is rather neutral. Srila Prabhupada requires abstinance from drugs to be his disciple, not to limit spiritual experiance, but to ensure purity and freedom in the experiance of the spiritual practice of samkirtana yajna. He is not envious of his disciples' inclination to use drugs, nor did he ever express disdain for a disciple who couldnt follow thru on such abstinance. But he also never allowed artificial experiance to rule the day.

 

So, those reading here, my advice is that the drug is no answer, but is no "deal killer" either. Srila Prabhupada taught a "gradual process", and he often warned of the artificial renunciation of habits that actually caused such great problems later on. For those who use, gradually decrease and replace with actual experiance of spiritual life.

 

And I cannot let this go without expressing the difference between drugs and chemical garbage. Drugs such as opiates, ganja, psyllicybanoids (sp) act in conjunction with electrical impulses already present in human physiology. Chemical garbage is what is popular today, this drano mixed with paint thinner craze. Methamphetimine, cocaine (which aint coke, its crap), and other crystal white powders and pills with fraudulent names like ecstacy, et all, these do not work with endorphines or other natural bodily functions, these burn brain cells. The high produced is nothing more that destruction of actual tissue that leaves one in a weakened state, it is self inflicted injury with no spiritual use whatsoever.

 

So, smokum if ya gottum, but gods found on drugs die with the effect of the drug, and who wants a dead god anyway, other than some christ killers who love bathing in his blood.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[ken111]

I am a spiritual person and experience spiritual reality daily and entheogens uncover more and more of this reality. When I first started experimenting with entheogens I was always frustrated that I had forgotten most of it, but gradually I noticed that my thinking had changed, and I started to remember more and more after each session, and the more I learned from the experiences the more I awakened to the true spiritual reality.

 

There is a reason that people forget, because the experience is so powerful, and different from the "ordinary" state of being. When you learn to integrate the experiences, then the permanent consciousness expansion can start to begin. There are certain stages of a entheogenic experience, that I would like to remain forever, but I am not ready to be carrying that type of consciousness yet, it takes a lot of practice, and purification of the body, to be carrying this sort of divine energy.

 

If a person wants to go far in his entheogenic spiritual pursuit, then he should stop eating meat, doing yoga and meditate, and know that being in an entheogenic trance state is a work you do for god.

 

I think an entheogen is a guru, and that may be why some human gurus require abstinance from drugs, because they don't want any competition from plants. If I would choose between a human guru and a plant-teacher, I would have chosen a plant-teacher, because they are far more evolved. Some plants can even be considered to be a god, one of them is Soma (Phalaris Aquatica)

[pandora]

 

There are some Shaivite sects who practice using marijuana.. I'm not sure how or why they use it.. I gave up that stuff a while ago.. It agitates my mind more than settle it..

 

i use to also smoke alot of weed and then kind of meditate on the lord for while the experiamce was kind of spiritual. but my mind also became very agitated and very unsettled. that why i gave it up also. but at the same time in a weird way it also kind of help paved the way for the path of my spiritual journey. but i would not use it ever when im try to meditate again, im at the point where it agitate me more then calm me down.

[ranjeetmore]

Narendra,a follower of Ramakrishna would smoke and he said,"Eating meat leads to sattva."

 

Just look at his foolishness !!! And to think he was in the hands of an able Master !!

 

So,Sant ji,you don't be so foolish.

 

Drugs leads to gross attachment to matter.This attachment will only lead you to hell.Forget Bhagavan,you will have to go to Hell.

[ken111]

A good entheogen will learn you to stop eating meat, it will learn you to get rid of attachment, and eventually lead you to the pearly gates of heaven.

 

You just can't take a lot of plants that have a powerful effect and put it in a bag called drugs, and then say: "drugs are bad mmmkay".

[thehat]

I've used a little psychedelics in the past, haven't touched them in over two years though. I think psychedelics like magic mushrooms can have very varied effects. In some instances I believed it to have influenced some aspects of my life in a very positive way. But it's not long before the effect wears off. That is to say, during the trip you can learn a lot of things and then after the trip you can have a nice mental state for a couple of weeks. But then it's all finished.

One example i can share is that virtually every trip I took I was able to see how cruel meat eating was. I could understand that I was killing a living being and that it was not fair of me to do so. So I would stop eating meat, but this would only last for a few days and then I would revert back to my bad habit of eating meat.

 

Also I thought I had some very spiritual experiences - however thinking over those experiences now I am not sure. In one trip I thought I was some kind of avatar, like an incarnation of Jesus. I guess this was probably because I felt my conciousness to be expanding - I was becoming aware of some rather noble truths. Don't ask me what those 'truth's were because I've forgotten. Point in case of how temporary the so-called enlightenment is. However, what's interesting is in that same trip where I had thought myself to be some divine God (apparently everyone gets this trip though, whether your on psychedelics or not) I'd also believed my friend to be some kind of Space Queen who was worshiped by people all over the universe because of her beauty. So the insanity and enlightenment tends to vary a lot in a trip I think. It's an overall mad experience. Some things seem quite meaningful whereas a lot of other things just seem stupid - when reflecting over the trip of course.

 

However I do think psychedelics are able to reveal some 'important' things to its users, but I don't think in the long run it can take someone very far spiritually. That is to say, it can show you many things - some of which may be quite profound and some of which may be utterly bizarre. But ultimately it kind of just leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere in the end. You don't know what to do, so thus you can only speculate over what you'd experienced.

 

Also, I think it was my second trip that I took where in I imagined myself to be Lord Shiva, or I just got a lot of visuals of Him - I can't remember anymore, anyway - I think it was this trip where I started getting visuals of what a hellish planet would look like and started thinking immensely about death. I was getting halucinations of all sorts of interesting dimensions. It was a very overwhelming experience, and in the end I was able to realise God as a real thing that exists. But I could not say what God was I was only left to speculate about it. Therfore I was on my own. Maybe this was something like a realisation of the self-effulgent brahman?!

 

So yeah, I used to have a ritual of taking things like mescaline, mushrooms etc. But then I started reading the Gita and things were kind of put in perspective for me so I felt I didn't need psychedelics any more. I felt that if i took those things it would be a step down for me. I've no grudge against them though, they were a nice distraction.

[sambya]

 

Narendra,a follower of Ramakrishna would smoke and he said,"Eating meat leads to sattva."

 

never did he say anything like this !! he specifically elaborated the two different interpretations of the fabled vedantic verse - aahaar suddhau satvasuddhau from the veiwpoints of advaita and vishistadvaita and specifically concluded that vegetariansm is desirable for people wishing to lead a solely spritual life whereas non - vegetarianism is necessary for material upliftment of any fallen race . he never advocated non vegetarianism as a way to be saatvik . it is only that he did not lay unnecessary importance to vegetariansm which had become the plague of the moment . like a orthodox brhamin feeding the cows and crows and letting his fellow men die of hunger .

 

as usual it shows your ill- education...........

[ranjeetmore]

Are you saying that Vivekananda never smoked ???

 

Didn't Ramkrishna specifically instruct someone to 'fix a smoke' for Narendra ??

[ranjeetmore]

See it as you may,

 

you can NEVER JUSTIFY such acts.

[sambya]

 

Are you saying that Vivekananda never smoked ???

 

Didn't Ramkrishna specifically instruct someone to 'fix a smoke' for Narendra ??

 

are you insane !! i think we were speaking of meat eating leading to satvik nature . wherefrom did this smoking thing come in ?

 

 

 

you can NEVER JUSTIFY such acts.

 

justify ? who shall justify whom ? me justify vivekananda or ramakrishna ? or would you try to justify ?

 

if ramakrishna is a mahatma as per kripalujis word then his teachings cannot be but beneficial . and he himself admitted that narendra is his greatest disciple . and when he allows narendra to smoke it is evident that he was least concerned about smoking . thus the act lies ' justified ' !!

 

but then again , why should i need to justify ? im not in a international spiritual court to evaluate spiritual leaders . nor am i trying to draw in a huge fan following , like you want to do for krishna .

 

please go back to the original point that you have made -- about meat eating .

[Kali_Upasaka]

A Chillum could be a facilitator. But by itself it can not make one spiritual. Some sects have made it a fad. Marijuana's effects on one's mind depends on the person. There can be no standardization.

 

I do not think the use of drugs has a place in the path Of Bhakthi. You can go on a high even without drugs.

 

Once I was trekking in the Himalayas. It was summer. It often rains in the afternoon. One day I was caught on a small pathway when it started raining. I took shelter in a small cave like structure.

 

Then it stopped raining. The sun started shining through the clouds. I came out of the cave and looked at the surroundings. The feeling which surged through me was one of ecstasy.

 

Here I was on a small slippery pathway where a slip could pitch into a chasm, far from my group, far from any medical help and far from civilization. Normally I should be feeling panicky.

 

But what I felt was ecstasy. Do you not feel it at the end of a long session of prayer. You should. Many a time it does take me some time to come back to normal. You go on a high.

 

Look at the image of Lord Chaitanya Maha Prabhu. He is dancing in ecstasy. Looking at the image, you can feel it. That is what we should try to attain.

 

 

Ecstacy (n.) The state of being beside one's self or rapt out of one's self; a state in which the mind is elevated above the reach of ordinary impressions, as when under the influence of overpowering emotion; an extraordinary elevation of the spirit, as when the soul, unconscious of sensible objects, is supposed to contemplate heavenly mysteries.

We do not need drugs for that. What we need is absolute devotion.

[ken111]

I use entheogens to glorify god, I think entheogens in itself is a glorification of god, they are miracle plants that show us a higher reality, and heightens the sensitivity to the spiritual part of this world too. Where would we be without the intelligence gained from certain plants, they were here before all the sacred texts and teachings. I think many spiritual teachings and sacred texts come from what is learned through plant use. In a place where there is no other source for spiritual knowledge, then plants is the way to go.

 

Of course the teachings always come from god, and when you have opened to the spiritual reality, then you no longer need the plants, you can learn directly from god. But when I see every spring that the holy Soma Phalaris plants comes directly up from the ground, I see it as a gift from god to humankind. Cows love to eat them too, what else do they do for fun other than eating plants like Phalaris grass and Magic mushrooms, communicating with god.

[sant]

 

I use entheogens to glorify god, I think entheogens in itself is a glorification of god, they are miracle plants that show us a higher reality, and heightens the sensitivity to the spiritual part of this world too. Where would we be without the intelligence gained from certain plants, they were here before all the sacred texts and teachings. I think many spiritual teachings and sacred texts come from what is learned through plant use. In a place where there is no other source for spiritual knowledge, then plants is the way to go.

 

Of course the teachings always come from god, and when you have opened to the spiritual reality, then you no longer need the plants, you can learn directly from god. But when I see every spring that the holy Soma Phalaris plants comes directly up from the ground, I see it as a gift from god to humankind. Cows love to eat them too, what else do they do for fun other than eating plants like Phalaris grass and Magic mushrooms, communicating with god.

 

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point is that you can meditate using these plants

but the efffect is temporary

and bhakti is different

now where does it refer that soma or some hawain plant can create bhakti

no bhakti is not like this it is received with the grace of the lord

not by some intoxicant

you are different as you are having bhakti in the lord from earlier ad the plant you use just makes your mind feel a little loose and then you practice devotion

it is not that this plant has created bhakti

the only plant is tulsi which you keep and pray to in the house is claimed to increase bhakti cause that is dear to the lord

[ken111]

Let's try an experiment, I will chew on Salvia Divinorum leaves, and write what comes to me from the Salvia on this forum. I will begin by offering this moment, the Salvia leaves and the experience to Krishna. Let's see if other beings, god, or the Salvia spirit start communicating through me.

[sant]

 

the Salvia spirit start communicating through me.

 

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there the problem youre being posssessed

just like some poeple get possesed by ghosts and spirits and say mata aati hai

[ken111]

when u eat a banana, then you are posessed by the banana spirit, you are one with it.