ken111 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Desire is the origin of all miseries, because desire means that you do not have something, it means that you want something. Be happy with what you have, and the only thing you have is this moment, everything can be put into this moment. There is nothing to desire, nothing to look forward to, nothing that is going to happen. Even the desire for the self is wrong, the desire for God is wrong, the desire for enlightenment is wrong, because it is allready found in the now. When a person gets enlightened, he realises that it was allready there, he had just forgotten about it. When the desire for the “I” is extinguished, one merges into the ocean of Total Awareness. Who am I? Is a beautiful question and this “I” comes from the self turning against itself and wondering “what is this?” “it is I”, and in doing this one seperate one from the self, because one looks at oneself in the distance. And then one goes further away by desiring to get it back. So the reversal of this process is the upheaval of everything you have ever done, you surrender everything to God, and in doing this, you go back into emptiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melvin1 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I felt this emptiness when I could have saved a life but wasn`t able to do so because the relatives of the patient suffering from severe anemia wouldn`t allow you to transfuse blood. This patient is a Jehovah`s witness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visnujana Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Desire is the origin of all miseries, because desire means that you do not have something, it means that you want something. Does it mean if you stop desiring (even if you can) you will have the missing something? Be happy with what you have, and the only thing you have is this moment, everything can be put into this moment. I agree, this is a pretty advanced aspiration - moksa (liberation). However, if you think about it you are not gaining anything positive. All you are aiming at is neutralizing the negativeness of the influence of matter. This becomes obvious if you consider the assumption from which I have started your logic. - material desires is evel - they need to be stopped. I am not saying this is bad. With our material reasoning or even by denying all material experience we can not perceive the spiritual positiveness anyway. This is so simply because it belongs to a entirely different domain. We can not perceive it but it's there, and there is a spiritual method by which we can perceive it. Just as the philosophy you are introducing us here to will not be appreciated by too many, because not too many will have the adhikara, the eligibility for it; similarly to understand the transcendental positiveness it also requires certain adhikara or qualification, which basically means certain faith to start with. Becoming free from the influence of the matter should rather be considered as an act and not as a permanent status of being. When you leave a room you don't stand still in the doorway for hours, you just pass it and go out to do your business. This could be a dark cold room, but yet most of people will go elsewhere upon leaving it. In the same way, moksa, no matter how amazing and advanced it might be or seem, it is a step to perfection, although it might be very significant one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I felt this emptiness when I could have saved a life but wasn`t able to do so because the relatives of the patient suffering from severe anemia wouldn`t allow you to transfuse blood. This patient is a Jehovah`s witness. <!-- / message --> what you felt could be kshanik vairaagya <!-- / message --> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken111 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Does it mean if you stop desiring (even if you can) you will have the missing something? Think this is a good question, there is always something that is "needed", but I think if u go away from the desire, then you start seeing it in a different light, like, what do god want me to do?, is this beneficial for the consciousness?, and you act based on this, and not from the desire thought. So I don't think the feeling of "missing something" should arise, then there is no need to go hunting for something. When you don't desire, you have everything that is beneficial inside of you, and outside of you. And you get what is beneficial out of knowledge, and not out of desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visnujana Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well, I agree with you, ken111, the soul can live without matter. But I meant mostly some essential things related to the intrinsic nature of the soul. I am sure you are aware that the teachings of bhakti say that the soul (jiva) can be happy only in connection with the Super-soul (Bhagavan). According to this teaching you can not come in contact with Bhagavan merely by stopping desires. In fact we are advised to do just the opposite - cultivate our desire to be with Bhagavan. But this kind of desires do not contaminate consciousness. Meaning they won't create the materially frustrated 'I', but they will serve to fulfill the real 'I'. That cultivation will give the 'I' all that it strives for, the ultimate happiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visnujana Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Actually the desire to serve Bhagavan works much like the cultivation of emptiness you're talking about. Meaning it has a huge power to free the mind from all the material desires, which are none-productive. This is so because even the process of cultivating the desire for Bhagavan or Bhakti is endowed with some sweet taste. Desire for moksa also is endowed with taste, and that's what moves people who have that type of faith to practice the liberating process. The difference is in the final attainment and also in the method. The liberating process will lead one to the 'doorway' (see my previous post), whereas the practice of bhakti will allow you to find and take ultimate shelter at Bhagavan. The process of liberating is not easy, because you have to be very careful analyzing and controlling your mind. Also you have to have a lot of knowledge to discriminate between the material 'I' and the 'emptiness'. However, even small kids can follow bhakti. This is so because bhakti is integral part and function of the soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melvin1 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 what you felt could be kshanik vairaagya <!-- / message --> I felt nothingness( emptiness) when I couldn`t persuade the relatives of my patient who is a Jehovah`s witness to have the former transfused with blood. He has sever anemia if untreated is fatal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 felt nothingness( emptiness) when I couldn`t persuade the relatives of my patient who is a Jehovah`s witness to have the former transfused with blood. He has sever anemia if untreated is fatal. <!-- / message --> Ok i thought you felt shamshaan vairaagya as ive read that people feel it for some time when they lose a loved one. but read this did you feel this When the desire for the “I” is extinguished, one merges into the ocean of Total Awareness. I think hes talking about feeling bliss.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 emptiness in your bhasha -Emptiness as a human condition is a sense of generalised boredom, social alienation and apathy. Feelings of emptiness often accompany dysthymia, depression, loneliness, despair, or other mental/emotional disorders such as borderline personality disorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken111 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 from wikipedia: In Buddhism, the realization of emptiness of inherent existence is a "state of pure consciousness” in which the practitioner realizes all particular objects and images to be appearances of the subjective mind. Buddhism, which posits that the ultimate state is a Nirvāṇa of peaceful emptiness has one of the most developed philosophies of emptiness. In an interview, the Dalai Lama stated that Tantric meditiation can be used for "heightening your own realization of emptiness or mind of enlightenment". In Buddhist philosophy, attaining a realization of emptiness of inherent existence is seen as the permanent cessation of suffering, i.e. liberation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melvin1 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 from wikipedia:In Buddhism, the realization of emptiness of inherent existence is a "state of pure consciousness” in which the practitioner realizes all particular objects and images to be appearances of the subjective mind. Buddhism, which posits that the ultimate state is a Nirvāṇa of peaceful emptiness has one of the most developed philosophies of emptiness. In an interview, the Dalai Lama stated that Tantric meditiation can be used for "heightening your own realization of emptiness or mind of enlightenment". In Buddhist philosophy, attaining a realization of emptiness of inherent existence is seen as the permanent cessation of suffering, i.e. liberation. Maybe this is what you meant " from the I to emptiness". (http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Maybe this is what you meant " from the I to emptiness".(http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm) thanks for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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