Pakistan Nuclear Weapons in Danger of Falling into the Hands of Taliban

[jeffster]

This thread is meant to bring to your attention the continuing saga of the rise in power of the Taliban within Pakistan and the very real threat they pose to Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. Should the Taliban acquire these weapons, they would undoubtedly attempt to destroy India, prompting World War III, likely ruining your whole day. You are likely seeing history in the making here. I am attempting to deal just with the facts here, with as little commentary as possible. Regardless of your political persuasion, what is depicted in the following link to the N.Y. Times article is actually happening, not just conspiracy theory.

 

www.nytimes.com/2009/05/04/world/asia/04nuke.html?partner=MOREOVERNEWS&ei=5040

 

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

Today's news: an interview with a Taliban tactician in the New York times:

 

www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/world/asia/05fighter.html?_r=1&partner=MOREOVERNEWS&ei=5040

 

There are also links in the article to related articles.

 

jeffster/AMd

[chandu_69]

Actually Ms clinton has an idea.She wants to talk to 'moderate taliban' and sort out the matter.:crazy::crazy:

[jeffster]

If that is the case, then the lesson will certainly be a hard one for the Americans.

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

It looks like the heart of the problem is originating in Saudi Arabia. What can be done about those bad boys ?

jeffster/AMd

[Sephiroth]

That which is predestined to happen, will happen.

 

If World War 3 is predestined, then what can we do about it?

[Narasingh]

Is there nothing you can do about it?

[Sephiroth]

If Indians in India were Hindus, they could become strong enough to stand up and fight back, even to the point that they could ensure that Terrorism doesn't rear its head anymore. But Indians have failed.

 

They forget Hindusm, they forget their forefathers' way of life, they forget who their enemies are. Since 900AD, they have been invaded by Muslims who came from Pakistan and today, they are still doing that. Only difference is - Indians today are opening to door and allowing them to come and attack.

 

So, why should anyone else do anything about this when Indians themselves failed to defend themselves?

[suchandra]

 

That which is predestined to happen, will happen.

 

If World War 3 is predestined, then what can we do about it?

Could be that the Muslims in India go ballistic when million of Taliban are slaughtered in Pakistan.

 

Pakistan attacks Taliban in Swat valley

 

 

Declan Walsh, Mark Tran – Gaurdian.co.uk May 6, 2009

 

 

Pakistani security forces launched artillery and rocket attacks on Taliban positions in the Swat valley this morning amid growing expectations of a major military offensive.

 

Helicopter gunships fired on a militant-controlled emerald mine outside Mingora, the main town in Swat, while soldiers fired artillery towards Taliban positions from a paramilitary base, residents said.

 

The Taliban seized control of Mingora on Monday, attacking government installations and forcing a retreat by outgunned police. The fresh fighting, triggered by an attack on Taliban positions in neighbouring Buner, precipitated the collapse of a controversial peace deal in the one-time tourist haven.

 

The government is indicating that an organised army offensive against the Taliban is imminent, while provincial officials say they expect 500,000 refugees to flee the valley, adding to another 500,000 people displaced by earlier violence.

 

Thousands of Swat residents left yesterday by car or on foot. But many more remain trapped inside their homes amid fighting and the reimposition of a government curfew.

 

The attacks come as Barack Obama today holds talks with the leaders of Afghanistan and Pakistan in Washington amid deepening American anxiety about the growing Taliban threat in the region.

 

Richard Holbrooke, the US administration's special representative for the region, told Congress yesterday that America's "most vital national security interests" were at stake in Pakistan.

 

The US president and national security team will meet the Pakistani president, Asif Ali Zardari, and the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, separately and then together in what US officials describe as "historic talks".

 

Obama has asked Congress to approve a large increase in aid to $1.5bn (£1bn) a year over five years.

 

Holbrooke said that Pakistan was not a "failed state" but faced tremendous challenges that could affect the safety of its nuclear arsenal.

 

He said the US needed "to put the most heavy possible pressure on our friends in Pakistan to join us in the fight against the Taliban and its allies. We cannot succeed in Afghanistan without Pakistan's support and involvement."

 

Holbrooke said the talks, which will continue at a lower level tomorrow, would be "historically important".

 

"We are talking today about an issue that is of direct importance to our national security," he said, noting that comparisons of the situation to the Vietnam war were inaccurate because the enemy in that case had never posed a direct threat to the US. The Taliban and al-Qaida remained the most serious threat to national security, he said.

 

The fighting in Swat follows the collapse of a three-month truce with the Taliban in the valley where the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, said there has been an abdication of government control to extremists.

 

Senior administration officials will urge Pakistan to step up its own fight against militants as the US moves to expand military operations in Afghanistan. The US team will seek assurances from Zardari, who is seen as a weak leader, that his country's atomic weapons are secure.

 

"The president is deeply concerned about the security situation," the White House press secretary, Robert Gibbs, said yesterday. "That's why we're sending additional troops to Afghanistan, and that's why we'll talk with both the Afghans and the Pakistanis about our renewed commitment in helping them seek the aid that they need to address those extremists."

 

Senior administration officials say the goal is to get Afghanistan and Pakistan to work together on a shared extremist threat to their countries. They hope the message will carry extra weight coming straight from Obama.

 

The outcome, they acknowledge, will be measured by concrete results. That includes, for example, the degree to which the Pakistani army – with its traditional strategic focus on India – takes the fight to militants within its own border. US officials say there is no intention to put American forces in Pakistan, which Pakistani officials strenuously oppose. "That's the end of that subject as far as we're concerned," one official said.

 

Ahead of Obama's discussions with Zardari and Karzai, Clinton will see them and their delegations separately at the state department before bringing the two sides together. Later, at the White House, Obama was to follow the same pattern in talks with the two leaders.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/06/barack-obama-afghanistan-pakistan-presidents

[Narasingh]

This is an age where people are unsure of what valuable discretion truly is.

[Sephiroth]

No, this is an Age where being IGNORANCE means being Good.

 

As long as you are ignorant of Evil-minded people doing Evil things, you are being good (toward them).

 

When you question others or stand for your rights, you are being "bad" toward them. At least, that's how I'm labelled by Muslims.

[chandu_69]

 

Is there nothing you can do about it?

Yes,you can be prepared.The war will be unlike the worldwars 1 &2.

 

It will be fought both in battle fields and in streets.

 

The world leaders and the opinion makers can minimize the cost though.

[chandu_69]

 

No, this is an Age where being IGNORANCE means being Good.

 

As long as you are ignorant of Evil-minded people doing Evil things, you are being good (toward them).

 

When you question others or stand for your rights, you are being "bad" toward them. <b>At least, that's how I'm labelled by Muslims</b>.

 

No, i find it much tougher dealing with nonmuslims who think that the best way of dealing with the problem is pretending that there is no problem.This is the battle(changing the mindset) which has to be won first to minimize costs in the future.

[jeffster]

I would agree with both Sephiroth in post # 11, as well as chandu69 in post # 13.

 

Here is more news:

www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-05-05-pakistancops_N.htm?esp=34

 

jeffster/AMd

[chandu_69]

Jeffster here is another interesting piece analyzing why pakisthan normally deploys poorly trained police force against taliban.The present military operation by pakistan army is to get us aid.

Pak Taliban op timed to get US aid?

 

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Pak-Taliban-op-timed-to-get-US-aid/articleshow/4464848.cms

 

and another analysis

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0326/p99s01-duts.html

[Sephiroth]

 

No, i find it much tougher dealing with nonmuslims who think that the best way of dealing with the problem is pretending that there is no problem.This is the battle(changing the mindset) which has to be won first to minimize costs in the future.

 

Let them pretend. They will stop pretending when their loved ones get killed by this fanatics like what happened in Mumbai recently. Then they will know that they do have a problem.

 

Right now, the problem here is Indian Government. Despite of knowing that the attack (in Mumbai) came from (and probably with the help of) neighboring Pakistan, WHAT DID INDIA DO? Nothing.

 

Pakistan's terrorists have openly declared war against the Infidels in India and India Government seems to be weak-knee in accepting the challenge.

[Sephiroth]

 

I would agree with both Sephiroth in post # 11, as well as chandu69 in post # 13.

 

Here is more news:

www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-05-05-pakistancops_N.htm?esp=34

 

jeffster/AMd

 

Pakistan is incapable of handling this situation. They should allow foreign troops in and let them deal with it.

 

Then again, I know their mindset. Once the Pakistan Government allows foreigners to come in to fight Talibans, the Talibans will use that as an excuse to gain supports from their fellow Muslims and the problem could only increase more.

 

If you ask me, JUST NUKE PAKISTAN.

 

It will send a stern warning to Talibans that the "Infidels" have lost their patience with them.

[Narasingh]

 

Pakistan is incapable of handling this situation. They should allow foreign troops in and let them deal with it.

 

Then again, I know their mindset. Once the Pakistan Government allows foreigners to come in to fight Talibans, the Talibans will use that as an excuse to gain supports from their fellow Muslims and the problem could only increase more.

 

If you ask me, JUST NUKE PAKISTAN.

 

It will send a stern warning to Talibans that the "Infidels" have lost their patience with them.

Interestingly, this sounds akin to the war cry, "Death to the Infidels!!!"

Who is right? And on what basis?

 

When it comes down to it, we can all go around pointing our fingers at the other people who are infidels. Christians (Catholics, Protestants...), Jews (Reform, Orthodox...), Muslims (Shiites, Sunnis...), Hindus (Shaktis, Shaivites, Vaishnavas...), etc...

[primate]

 

Interestingly, this sounds akin to the war cry, "Death to the Infidels!!!"

Who is right? And on what basis?

 

When it comes down to it, we can all go around pointing our fingers at the other people who are infidels. Christians (Catholics, Protestants...), Jews (Reform, Orthodox...), Muslims (Shiites, Sunnis...), Hindus (Shaktis, Shaivites, Vaishnavas...), etc...

In our material world, ultimately, only science can determine what is real and, consequently, who's ideology is real, and who is façade or fake, or even a religious terrorist..

[Narasingh]

Yes. Scientific understanding is important. Philosophy must be consistent and thorough.

[jeffster]

Unfortunately, Kali yuga is an age in which there is only Evil and Greater Evil. Because no government heads are guided by Dharma, their policies only bring increased suffering. Having said that, we should be able to quite readily and clearly discern which parties are which, as evidenced by their activities. Furthermore, we have a right to defend ourselves from those who openly avow to destroy us. Whether that gives us a right to pre-emptive strikes is an issue that I have not yet fully resolved. If we get lucky, demons will destroy each other, yet because we are not so pious, we may likely get some direct heat from this ongoing conflict. No sane man wants to see others suffer, yet the Taliban time after time stop at nothing to further their own skewed aims. They should be openly and actively be opposed by all.

 

The following link shows the plight of the refugees that this situation is already creating:

 

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/07/swat-pakistan-taliban-camps

 

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

The following link has some related background information, with many links for extended research:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

 

jeffster/AMd

[suchandra]

 

Unfortunately, Kali yuga is an age in which there is only Evil and Greater Evil. Because no government heads are guided by Dharma, their policies only bring increased suffering. Having said that, we should be able to quite readily and clearly discern which parties are which, as evidenced by their activities. Furthermore, we have a right to defend ourselves from those who openly avow to destroy us. Whether that gives us a right to pre-emptive strikes is an issue that I have not yet fully resolved. If we get lucky, demons will destroy each other, yet because we are not so pious, we may likely get some direct heat from this ongoing conflict. No sane man wants to see others suffer, yet the Taliban time after time stop at nothing to further their own skewed aims. They should be openly and actively be opposed by all.

 

The following link shows the plight of the refugees that this situation is already creating:

 

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/07/swat-pakistan-taliban-camps

 

jeffster/AMd

Hopefully this is solved, a giant US military base in Afghanistan with 68,000 troops will be surely a guarantor for long lasting peace in that region.

 

A giant US military base emerges in Afghanistan

 

 

Dan De Luce – AFP May 8, 2009

 

 

In the forbidding Afghan desert, US engineers are carving out a sprawling military camp as part of a dramatic American troop build-up designed to confront Taliban insurgents.

 

The desolate plain in southern Helmand province that Afghans call the "desert of death" has turned into a hive of frenetic activity, underscoring President Barack Obama's decision to expand the US military commitment to the war.

 

Defence Secretary Robert Gates flew into Camp Leatherneck on Thursday to get a first-hand look as dozens of bulldozers kicked up clouds of dust and soldiers swung hammers in searing heat.

 

Some of the newly arrived soldiers at the camp told Gates they were still waiting for radios and other equipment to arrive.

 

Gates promised to look into the problem and said later at a news conference in Kabul that moving such a large number of troops and so much equipment was a "logistical challenge" in a country with a shortage of airports and major roads.

 

Every day military planes ferry in more marines and soldiers to the camp that has emerged out of the desert seemingly overnight, protected by miles of sand walls topped with barbed wire along with rows of barrier walls.

 

"It's been real busy," said Captain Jeff Boroway from the 25th Naval Construction regiment.

 

"This place was desert at the end of January. I mean nothing. And now you've got a 443-acre (179-hectare) secure facility," he told reporters.

 

Boroway said engineering units were rushing to finish work on the camp to accommodate the deployment of thousands of additional troops, including most of an 8,000-strong brigade of US Marines.

 

The escalation of the war against the Taliban has raised concerns among some in Obama's own party that the administration could be drawn into an open-ended mission.

 

But US commanders and officials say their aim is to train Afghan forces to eventually take over security duties.

 

The camp, which is being built next to a smaller outpost dubbed "Bastion" that has served British troops, will include a vast airfield that eventually will be home to 55 helicopters and other aircraft, said Lieutenant Colonel David Jones.

 

The airfield, which he called a huge "parking space" for choppers, will be 4,860 feet (1,481 metres) long and is the largest such project in the world in a combat setting, said Jones, who leads a marine squadron in charge of the effort.

 

The labour-intensive work requires levelling off the runway area and setting down sheets of metal alloy that are then anchored into a mat.

 

The runway project began about a month ago and has to be finished by the end of June, officers said.

 

The temporary metal mat, which will later be replaced with asphalt, "provides a secure place for any aircraft to land, park and take off," Boroway said, and is "a lot safer and better than dirt."

 

He said his troops and contractors have moved mountains of sand in their efforts to boost defences.

 

They are also expanding another US base in the southern city of Kandahar.

 

All the digging and bulldozing in the desert has put a premium on water, especially for the runway construction.

 

As a result, troops were collecting water from the base's kitchens and showers to compact dirt at building sites, the Navy officer said.

 

The base is needed quickly with the US military presence in Afghanistan due to double by the autumn, when the Obama administration says up to 68,000 troops will be in place.

 

Boroway said his team was working 12-hour days in searing heat to finish. "They know the importance of this," he added.

http://news./s/afp/20090508/wl_sthasia_afp/afghanistanunrestusmilitary/print

[jeffster]

We would all hope, of course, for a quick resolution of this conflict, yet it will likely go on for a long time, much longer than it takes politically correct so-called "liberals," or "progressives," to shoot themselves in the foot, as they are so fond of doing. This conflict is truly unfortunate, but characteristic of Kali yuga.

 

Some more news here: As usual, the non-combatants suffer the most.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/09/world/asia/09pstan.html?_r=1&partner=MOREOVERNEWS&ei=5040

 

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

Here is today's news on the issue:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/10/pakistan.swat.taliban.fighting/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

 

Although Pakistan claims to have killed 200 Taliban, they cannot document it. The Taliban can quite easily flee back into the mountains or blend in with the civilian population when the going gets too rough for them.

 

jeffster/AMd