Integral monism is the answer...

[melvin]

For the advaits, it`s absolute monism. For the dvaits, it`s dualist monism. For me, it`s integral monism. I don`t like to be one with God because that`s tantamount to commiting suicide(Prabhupada). I don`t like duality (jiva is one thing and God is another greater thing) because it stops there. I chose Lord Caitanya`s philosophy that the self(soul) not false ego is inconceivably and simultaneously one and different from God. It`s an idea urging advaits and dvaits to settle their differences and render devotional service instead to God who`s called by so many names. The foremost of which is Krsna. While others prefer to call Him Visnu. For the shakts it`s Durga. For the sivaits it`s Siva. It`s to each his own, so to speak.

Be as it may, if one is a shakt then he should render devotional service to Durga. If one is a sivait then he should render devotional service to Siva. If one is a vaishnava then he should render devotional service to Krsna(Vishnu). Devotional service therefore is the key to the answer(integral monism). And why not?

Even atheists render service to their employers in order to earn so why can`t a theist do that to his God?

[melvin]

We should therefore blast the whole world with chanting of the holy names of God: " Hare Krsnah Hare Krsnah Krsnah Krsnah Hare Hare/ Hare Ramah Hare Ramah Ramah Ramah Hare Hare ". The time is NOW, not tomorrow.

[Kulapavana]

 

I don`t like to be one with God because that`s tantamount to commiting suicide(Prabhupada).

 

If the soul never dies, how can kaivalya be a suicide?

Because most Vaishnavas desire to serve Krsna, the thought of not being able to serve Him seems like hell to them (kaivalyam narakayate - as Prabodhananda Sarasvati wrote). It is an emotional statement, not a statement of facts.

[jinglebells]

 

I don`t like to be one with God because that`s tantamount to commiting suicide(Prabhupada).

 

This is the most ludicrous statement I've ever heard. Oneness with God is not like two objects becoming one. It's realizing what you always were - GOD!

[Kulapavana]

 

This is the most ludicrous statement I've ever heard. Oneness with God is not like two objects becoming one. It's realizing what you always were - GOD!

 

I would use the word Brahman

[primate]

 

This is the most ludicrous statement I've ever heard. Oneness with God is not like two objects becoming one. It's realizing what you always were - GOD!

You are not God. God is you..

[hing]

Two things can be in a relationship only if they have similarities.

 

One can see something only if he gets a picture of this in his brain.

 

How you recognise a desk? By desk picturing in your brain.

 

My enviroment is a picture of myself, of my consciousness. Everybody gets what he deserves.

 

To see a God you need too be similar to him. Humans are "made in the image of God", that is why we can reach him.

 

So by picturing desk in your brain, you are actually becoming desk. But are you realy desk or stil separate?

 

I think whether you are different from god as dvaits say or the same as advaits, is just a philosophical play

[Haridasdasdas]

 

This is the most ludicrous statement I've ever heard. Oneness with God is not like two objects becoming one. It's realizing what you always were - GOD!

 

Okay God, that's enough.

[Haridasdasdas]

 

I would use the word Brahman

 

Yes, Caitanya never argued that the Jivatma wasn't Brahman, he just said Krishna was ParaBrahman. Krishna is the ocean and the Jivas are like rain drops.

[hing]

What is your consciousness?

Your consciousness is its content. What you see you become, things around you, your thoughts, your emotions..

But what happens when consciousness is empty? You see god, because you are "made in the image of God". That´s why god is transcendent.

 

Now, one thing is just to see that you are realy this state of emtiness of thoughts and maintain this state during activity, the other thing to learn to act out of this state. When you act out of this state, you become "gods servant", MMY would call it "gods consciousness"

 

This all Indian gods are just parts of our physiology as they are parts of our universe, beacause we are "made in the image of God". When you revive them, your brain is functioning properly, one can say you are in devotion to god.

 

please fill the gap between www in link

w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXCVoxTpwE&feature=channel_page

[Haridasdasdas]

 

What is your consciousness?

Your consciousness is its content. What you see you become, things around you, your thoughts, your emotions..

But what happens when consciousness is empty? You see god, because you are "made in the image of God". That´s why god is transcendent.

 

Now, one thing is just to see that you are realy this state of emtiness of thoughts and maintain this state during activity, the other thing to learn to act out of this state. When you act out of this state, you become "gods servant", MMY would call it "gods consciousness"

 

This all Indian gods are just parts of our physiology as they are parts of our universe, beacause we are "made in the image of God". When you revive them, your brain is functioning properly, one can say you are in devotion to god.

 

please fill the gap between www in link

w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXCVoxTpwE&feature=channel_page

 

I don't find that terribly impressive.

[hing]

 

I don't find that terribly impressive.

 

You are right, I read this part now and it is not looking easy to understand.

I give it once more a try:

 

So this part is OK:

******************

What is your consciousness?

Your consciousness is its content. What you see you become, things around you, your thoughts, your emotions..

But what happens when consciousness is empty? You see god, because you are "made in the image of God".

******************

explanation:

Well you stay only with God since your consciousness is always aware, since this is its nature. If you have nothing to see and you are aware, not in deep sleep where your awareness shuts down, you see God since he is only who remains.

This is famous theorie of yoga,budhism and advaita and should be well known. When you stop thinking you see who you realy are, "yogas citta vritti nirodha"

 

 

But this part I would modify:

***************

Now, one thing is just to see that you are realy this state of emtiness of thoughts and maintain this state during activity, the other thing to learn to act out of this state. When you act out of this state, you become "gods servant", MMY would call it "gods consciousness"

***************

 

Well, when you saw god in this short moment of stillness of your thoughts, you are still not realy aware of god when you come out of this state.

You have to make your emotions,thoughts more subtile to see god also later.

Even if your state of stillness is there after every thought, if you didn`t refine your thinking, emotions, senses you will not be aware of god in every object.

And this is actually your "bhakti" way. But it has much more sinn when you are experiencing this stillness...

 

Greetings from MMY

[sant]

you mean to say that for example we look and start thinking about the flower for a long time and start concentrating in it and go into dhyan then comes a point when you are you are not thinking about the flower you become one with the flower i.e. you attain samdhi with the flower.

 

 

Well, when you saw god in this short moment of stillness of your thoughts, you are still not realy aware of god when you come out of this state.

 

you dont according to it you feel the presence of god but dont see him .advaits say god is just a presence aint i right.

 

 

Now, one thing is just to see that you are realy this state of emtiness of thoughts and maintain this state during activity, the other thing to learn to act out of this state. When you act out of this state, you become "gods servant", MMY would call it "gods consciousness"

 

explain this

and how is bhakti way a sinn according to you.

[hing]

 

you mean to say that for example we look and start thinking about the flower for a long time and start concentrating in it and go into dhyan then comes a point when you are you are not thinking about the flower you become one with the flower i.e. you attain samdhi with the flower.

 

 

I don`t know about the flower in my tradition we repeat sound, mantra(you can also use yantra) and when mantra disappears, you stay alone with yourself without thoughts.

You can have the same effekt if you run and go out of oxygen, or when you long time concetrate on somethnig and mind just breaks down(I thin goenka vipassana), can not think anymore.

I thought about samadhi without object.

 

 

you dont according to it you feel the presence of god but dont see him .advaits say god is just a presence aint i right.

 

yes you are

 

 

explain this

and how is bhakti way a sinn according to you.

 

Well, bhakti make sense if you first meditated, and felt the presence of god because not till then you knew how god looks like, and where to search him.

How can you love somebody if you don´t know him?

After you got expirience of transcendence you should not stop there but refine your senses, emotions and intellect to see god everywhere, in every person and every stone.

This is what did Chaitanya, Ramakrishna, Krishnamurti, but they where born at very high level and had not to meditate but just to praktice bhakti.

[primate]

God is you, among some other things (that you cannot be)..

[lokeshvara]

 

 

Well, bhakti make sense if you first meditated, and felt the presence of god because not till then you knew how god looks like, and where to search him.

How can you love somebody if you don´t know him?

After you got expirience of transcendence you should not stop there but refine your senses, emotions and intellect to see god everywhere, in every person and every stone.

This is what did Chaitanya, Ramakrishna, Krishnamurti, but they where born at very high level and had not to meditate but just to praktice bhakti.

 

i will have to disagree here. while having a direct experience with God does make bhakti easier (it should anyway) it is not a prerequisite for true bhakti practice. We have always known God. Our souls know God therefore bhakti can spring up with out having conscious experience of him. Also our success in spiritual endeavors is solely dependant on the kindness of God.

 

Plus it seems a little exclussionary. I tried meditation for years and didn't get a thing out of it. I sing kirtan with devotees and eat prasadam and can feel love in my heart (all be it an imperfect and tiny kind of love) so how can meditation be needed first?

 

i agree with what you said about refining senses and emotions etc.

 

Hari Om!

[melvin]

 

i will have to disagree here. while having a direct experience with God does make bhakti easier (it should anyway) it is not a prerequisite for true bhakti practice. We have always known God. Our souls know God therefore bhakti can spring up with out having conscious experience of him. Also our success in spiritual endeavors is solely dependant on the kindness of God.

 

Plus it seems a little exclussionary. I tried meditation for years and didn't get a thing out of it. I sing kirtan with devotees and eat prasadam and can feel love in my heart (all be it an imperfect and tiny kind of love) so how can meditation be needed first?

 

i agree with what you said about refining senses and emotions etc.

 

Hari Om!

 

You have achieved perfection if you use your mind thinking what to write that glorifies in full the holy names of Krsnah & Govinda. You will fall from your so-called level of consciousness if you think Lord Siva is on the same level with Krsnah & Govinda. This is what happened to Guitarist Upabarhana. He wanted to become one with Flutist Govinda. Instead of playing for the latter, the former played music to attract the girls in the assembly. Guitarist Upabarhana thought he could be like Flutist Govinda who plays the flute to attract the gopis. Thus Upabarhana was cursed by the Prajapatis to become a sudra in the next life because they knew he was trying to excell Govinda when doing kirtan before an audience. When sudra Upabarhana realized he was only a back up of Flutist Govinda, in the next life, sudra Upabarhana( devoid of his guitar ) became the Vina player Narada Muni of Flutist Govinda.

[primate]

 

Huh?

Well, if we agree that God is everything, then you can’t be God, unless you yourself are everything; which I don’t believe because (for example) you are not me. God is both you and me. So, you are not God, but God is you (and me)..

[Haridasdasdas]

 

You are right, I read this part now and it is not looking easy to understand.

I give it once more a try:

 

So this part is OK:

******************

What is your consciousness?

Your consciousness is its content. What you see you become, things around you, your thoughts, your emotions..

But what happens when consciousness is empty? You see god, because you are "made in the image of God".

******************

explanation:

Well you stay only with God since your consciousness is always aware, since this is its nature. If you have nothing to see and you are aware, not in deep sleep where your awareness shuts down, you see God since he is only who remains.

This is famous theorie of yoga,budhism and advaita and should be well known. When you stop thinking you see who you realy are, "yogas citta vritti nirodha"

 

 

But this part I would modify:

***************

Now, one thing is just to see that you are realy this state of emtiness of thoughts and maintain this state during activity, the other thing to learn to act out of this state. When you act out of this state, you become "gods servant", MMY would call it "gods consciousness"

***************

 

Well, when you saw god in this short moment of stillness of your thoughts, you are still not realy aware of god when you come out of this state.

You have to make your emotions,thoughts more subtile to see god also later.

Even if your state of stillness is there after every thought, if you didn`t refine your thinking, emotions, senses you will not be aware of god in every object.

And this is actually your "bhakti" way. But it has much more sinn when you are experiencing this stillness...

 

Greetings from MMY

 

I didn't say that I didn't understand it, I said I wasn't impressed. Don't be so egotistical that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you cannot understand you. There is your weakness. Perhaps your whole new-age 'behind religion' gimmick is just an attempt to feel better than others?

 

You write all these words, but they're all meaningless. You write about what cannot be written about, and so you're left with a page of meaningless symbols.

[ranjeetmore]

Jeevatma is NOT GOD.

 

If you say it is,then you have to reconcile the vedic statements that there are THREE SEPERATE ETERNAL tattvas : The controller(Brahm),the enjoyer(jeevatma) and the enjoyed(maya) with the nonsense theory that 'Jeeva is brahm.'

 

Tulsidasa states,"Kahat kathin smujhat kathin sadhan kathin vivek."

To even explain the Nirguna brahm is tough,it is much more tough to understand it and toughest is to practise jnana marga.

 

Sri Kripaluji Maharaja states,"All these Advaita vadis...they talk ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.Sab bakwaas karte hai.Sab bakwaas."

 

He further challenges,"There are FOUR conditions before even gaining,talking,thinking about Nirguna Brahm : Shanto dant uparatas titiskhu. Sham-Shant means control over the mind.How many people in 9 billion have control over their mind ??"

 

There are many people who are trying to explain that everything is brahm.this that...

All nonsense.You people are just like the advaita vadis who just go on talking nonsense,even when they are not qualified.

Shanto dant uparatas titikshu

 

AND THEN : Athato brahm Jigyasa.

This is the crteria set by shankaracharya himself.

 

So anyone who thinks he can expound on Nirguna brahm is a complete fool.

Even Brahm is not the name in the nirguna sect.It doesn't even have a name.So how can you explain ??? ALL nonsense.

[ranjeetmore]

post no. 22 is exclusively meant for people post along the same line of thought of "hing."

[melvin]

 

post no. 22 is exclusively meant for people post along the same line of thought of "hing."

 

Glad to see you, ranjeetmore. A cruise ship wont depart as scheduled if one of her crew officer has not yet arrived on deck.

[primate]

 

Huh?

God is total (continuous) consciousness. You are just a (discontinuous) fraction of total consciousness. So, you are not God, God is you..

[primate]

 

Jeevatma is NOT GOD.

 

If you say it is,then you have to reconcile the vedic statements that there are THREE SEPERATE ETERNAL tattvas : The controller(Brahm),the enjoyer(jeevatma) and the enjoyed(maya) with the nonsense theory that 'Jeeva is brahm.'

 

Tulsidasa states,"Kahat kathin smujhat kathin sadhan kathin vivek."

To even explain the Nirguna brahm is tough,it is much more tough to understand it and toughest is to practise jnana marga.

 

Sri Kripaluji Maharaja states,"All these Advaita vadis...they talk ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.Sab bakwaas karte hai.Sab bakwaas."

 

He further challenges,"There are FOUR conditions before even gaining,talking,thinking about Nirguna Brahm : Shanto dant uparatas titiskhu. Sham-Shant means control over the mind.How many people in 9 billion have control over their mind ??"

 

There are many people who are trying to explain that everything is brahm.this that...

All nonsense.You people are just like the advaita vadis who just go on talking nonsense,even when they are not qualified.

Shanto dant uparatas titikshu

 

AND THEN : Athato brahm Jigyasa.

This is the crteria set by shankaracharya himself.

 

So anyone who thinks he can expound on Nirguna brahm is a complete fool.

Even Brahm is not the name in the nirguna sect.It doesn't even have a name.So how can you explain ??? ALL nonsense.

"athato brahman jigyasa" Translation: One should inquire into the nature of Brahman, the Absolute Truth, or God. (Vedanta Sutra 1.1.1)

 

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." (A. Einstein)

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Jeevatma is NOT GOD.

 

If you say it is,then you have to reconcile the vedic statements that there are THREE SEPERATE ETERNAL tattvas : The controller(Brahm),the enjoyer(jeevatma) and the enjoyed(maya) with the nonsense theory that 'Jeeva is brahm.'

 

Tulsidasa states,"Kahat kathin smujhat kathin sadhan kathin vivek."

To even explain the Nirguna brahm is tough,it is much more tough to understand it and toughest is to practise jnana marga.

 

Sri Kripaluji Maharaja states,"All these Advaita vadis...they talk ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.Sab bakwaas karte hai.Sab bakwaas."

 

He further challenges,"There are FOUR conditions before even gaining,talking,thinking about Nirguna Brahm : Shanto dant uparatas titiskhu. Sham-Shant means control over the mind.How many people in 9 billion have control over their mind ??"

 

There are many people who are trying to explain that everything is brahm.this that...

All nonsense.You people are just like the advaita vadis who just go on talking nonsense,even when they are not qualified.

Shanto dant uparatas titikshu

 

AND THEN : Athato brahm Jigyasa.

This is the crteria set by shankaracharya himself.

 

So anyone who thinks he can expound on Nirguna brahm is a complete fool.

Even Brahm is not the name in the nirguna sect.It doesn't even have a name.So how can you explain ??? ALL nonsense.

 

No, God is Parabrahman, whilst jivatma is brahman. You can't deny that Jiva is Brahman, it's all over the Upanisads.