I gave up KC

[Haridasdasdas]

 

Yes, Krishna Consciousness but not necessarily Iskcon. They are NOT the same thing although Iskcon may or may not be a Krishna conscious organization.

 

Hence to give up Iskcon does not have to mean you gave up Krishna consciousness.

 

Countless souls throughout all universal existence have awakened their dormant Krishna consciousness without hearing the term Iskcon.

 

Was Bhaktisiddhanta a member of Iskcon the incorporated entity?

 

Srila Prabhupada himself was Krishna concious before founding Iskcon.

 

On this point we should become crystal clear.

 

Hare Krishna

 

Strangely enough, there does seem to be a need to point that out.

[ranjeetmore]

 

I given up KC.

 

I have realized I am just a normal Hindu and should have listened to my parents as they are my Guru. I should never have accepted Guru.

 

If I'd listened to my parents I would been happier.

 

I know Krishna is God, but I'm still a normal every day Hindu.

 

Jai Sri Ram

 

 

This is inevitable.

 

Chant chant chant.Chant 16 rounds .chant 100 rounds.

 

Iskon has totally sidetracked.

Chant Harinama,they say.

 

What Hari nama ?

 

Can you take HARI NAMA ??

 

Hari nama is Sri Hari Himself.All His energies are invested in Sri Nama.Imagine what Hari nama would do you if it actually appeared in your mind.It would send you in raptures which even the Paramhamsas don't experience.

Unless such happiness is experienced,there is no chance that you will remain doing the external sadhana.That's a fact.

 

Navadha bhakti is to actually create a vessel where the Pure Nama will appear.

For this the mind should be purified with smarana.

 

The vedanta states ,"Smaranti ca."

You have to REMEMBER Sri Krsna.

You chant and dance,but the main point is remembrance.Unless the mind starts getting purified with smarana,it is impossible for Hari nama to start showing it's effects.IMPOSSIBLE.

[theist]

 

Strangely enough, there does seem to be a need to point that out.

 

Sadly, yes. This is not a slam against Iskcon. This mistake is routinely made by most beginning students and lay followers. This is innocent and just a phase of development.

 

But when it becomes propagated by the leaders as a truth it may even be criminal.

 

Krishna exists within the matha and outside of it as well.

 

Krishna Consciousness is the pinnacle of personalism.

 

Instituionalism can never be a satisfying substitute.

 

Hare Krishna

[gHari]

No, Ram Ram. I think KC gave up on you.

 

First one takes it all very cheaply, then comes arrogance with a little knowledge, then finally aparadha. Aparadha distances you from KC.

 

Even a dog does not bite the hand that feeds him.

[thehat]

Well whatever. Just be a hindu and chant Hare Krsna 1 round a day then.

[Somayaji]

 

that is very true kc is very hard at times, cause there will alway be a oull from the material world.

 

here a question though an astrologer once told me that the reason why my life is so hard is cause i only pray to sri krsna and not really the other gods is this true??????

 

 

Change your astrologer.

[chandu_69]

 

here a question though an astrologer once told me that the reason why my life is so hard is cause i only pray to sri krsna and not really the other gods is this true??????

.

 

Hinduism doesn't have jealous god(s).

 

But the poor astrologer has to make a living, you see .

 

I have enough experience with astrologers to come around to the view that in most of the cases it is harmful listening to them.

[chandu_69]

 

Change your astrologer.

 

And make them a little bit richer

[sant]

 

There are so many deities worshipped in india. street gods, country gods etc

 

All these are one's projections of mind carried on in heredity....

 

 

you dont become god just becasue your name is ananth.

I hope you understand what i mean.

 

 

 

 

Fools say chant 16 rounds in isckon.

sit back and relax and then decide who the fool is.

[Kulapavana]

Pankaja, take it easy. The road of life is filled with many sharp turns. Do what your heart tells you to do, but keep your eyes open and do not get sentimental.

 

Lots of luck to you, old buddy...

[Xochitl]

I am deeply saddened to hear that you have decided to "give up" KC, but I am sure Krishna has not given up on you. Please keep on chanting and making some endeavor for spiritual life. Even a little progress can help. Everyone is making progress in the cycle of birth and death, regardless of if he is endeavoring for it or not. Even the most sinful person is getting purified of his attachment to material nature. This process takes a long time but it is my personal realisation that just like someone who overindulges in sweets eventually grows sick and tired and loses his taste for it, a sinful or lusty man grows detached from material sense gratification and becomes materially exhausted. It is from this exhaustion that the jiva turns away from sensual indulgence and turns towards spiritual life. Srila Prabhupada says that for one to take the spiritual path ie Krishna Consciousness, he must be completely devoid of sin or "free of sin" and I used to wonder what that meant because the statement seems apparently contradictory (b/c we work within the system of vaidhi bhakti in order to purify ourselves of sinful propensities and become pure devotees of Krishna) but I think I understand very deeply now. We can not force everyone to follow our standard because not everyone is ready or sincere. Even within the Vaishnava community, I think, there are very few, rare souls that are truly sincere bhaktas. I think Vaishnavas should be more compassionate and less judgemental of the other traditions, in an understanding that every spirit soul is making progress, very slowly but surely. Encourage them to come to a higher standard but let them make mistakes; sometimes it is only after one is kicked repeatedly by Maya that one learns his lesson.

[bhaktajan]

Nobody gives up Krishna Conscoiusness

 

They just, temporarily, run off toward some sense-gradification --and then forget to revive & return to their personal discipline(s) . . . yet, after some eons of time they indeed revive their long neglected yoga path . . . but that does not ever gaurantee moksha.

 

Only service to Vaishnavas and thus with their blessings we each mutally acquire the conconmitant reward.

 

Once one has taken 1st Class Prashadam from a ISKCON MEMBER or HARE KRISHNA or RADHA-KRISHNA TEMPLE --that person is a great [secret] offender to deny him or herself another chance to 'HONOR' Prashadam.

 

Once the taste of Prashadam is acknowledged --it is a false accusation that a higher taste can be "tasted".

 

 

servant of the servant of the 'Samosa' makers of the Gods,

Bhaktajan

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Shree Ishopanishad Mantra 8 Purport:

 

In Bhaagavatam-purana (7.5.30–31) it is stated that those who are captivated by the temporary beauties of the external energy forget the real aim of life, which is to go back to Godhead.

 

Forgetting this, one tries to adjust things by various plans and programs, but this is like chewing what has already been chewed. Nonetheless, the Lord is so kind that He allows the forgetful living entity to continue in this way without interference.

 

Thus this mantra of Sri Ishopanishad uses the very appropriate word yaathaatathyatah, indicating that the Lord rewards the living entities just in pursuance of their desires.

 

If a living being wants to go to hell, the Lord allows him to do so without interference, and if he wants to go back home, back to Godhead, the Lord helps him.

[hindustani]

Oh no Bhaktajan,atleast don't bring copy paste business here and express your thoughts please,yaar(friend)is it necessary to copy paste some ready made material each time?Can't we have our own views for such subject?

[bhaktajan]

hindustani SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dik!

 

But I say that with the special affection that you alone appreciate so fondly. [Look it up!]

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

So, I should speak what I learned in the Hood? What I learned from Television? What I learned from Leroy?

What I learned from Bob? What I learned from interpreting my dreams or tea leaves or DNA?

 

I speak the same words as the Sages of yore! I am sure of that as a Fact! I have been practicing it for a long time.

[Xochitl]

Dear Bhaktajan prabhu,

I think you and I have basically the same acknowledgement as our statements are practially the same message only worded differently. However, by implication, you are saying that he has given up krishna prasadam and is searching for something "better", which I think is an incorrect conclusion. I don't think Lotusflower has given up Krishna, he may just be fried by the institution/matha he was affiliated with, he even admit that he still has love for Lord Krishna. It is also possible to worship the Lord in one's home, isn't it?

Hindustani prabhu, I don't understand why you have to ridicule our bhaktajan prabhu for quoting a text into his reply. What is wrong with quoting the sastra in these matters especially when it is applicable to the situation? I think it is very obvious that bhaktajan agrees with the conclusion of Sri Isopanishad so what is wrong with that? You and I may differ in opinion but just because he agrees with quoted verse that does not mean it is less than his own personal opinion/realisation.

[bhaktajan]

One cannot give up a Higher Taste for a lower Taste unless outside influences are involved (mind altering drugs, etc).

 

I really mean it [i know that this seems petty --but I am making the statement none-the-less].

 

....................................

 

He didn't say he is giving up ISKCON or Ashram life.

 

<<<<<>>>>>

Hindustani prabhu's point is an on-going one that others mention:

 

A person 'brainwashed' by dogma from an institution will only

express the opinion of the orthodox 'tenets' without any personal realization [vijanana].

 

But that is not bonefide . . . knowledge must agree with Guru [mentor], Sadhu [other mentors] & Sastra [the Text Books]. . . so don't be too shocked by Hindustani prabhu's Debating style(s).

[stonehearted]

It's no news that Pankaja sometimes gets discouraged, so we shouldn't be surprised. And I'm not particularly worried.

 

We should also note that he is not initiated by an ISKCON guru. His guru is Sripad B. V. Puri Maharaja, who recently left our company. The best thing we can do is assure Muddy that we are his friends, unconditionally.

[MikeMalaysia]

I recently "left" Krishna Consciousness too. I had attended their temple and programmes many years ago in New Zealand, but last June my wife and I went to their temple, and I absolutely loved it. We went to Gita classes held at a devotee's apartment and I started chanting one and then two rounds a day (after a Gaudiya Math devotee told me that you shouldn't chant an odd number of rounds). However, I was more attracted to the Gaudiya Math, as the devotee I talked to said that Narayana Maharaja looks at your sincerity, not at the "technicalities" (chanting 16 rounds a day etc). Since starting work, I hadn't been very religious, but I did do my two rounds most days (usually on the bus). I used to think that those who say that all the gods are part of one God (which is most Malaysian Hindus) were "Mayavadis" and that they were wrong.

 

However, a while ago I looked at the Himalayan Academy site, and I read some of "Loving Ganesha: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant-Faced God". I especially liked the section "Prayers to Lord Ganesha". It had prayers for the morning, afternoon, evening, before eating, etc. I'd never seen anything like that for Krishna. I'd never seen any "Morning Prayer to Lord Krishna" from ISKCON. I bet if you asked them for a morning prayer they would just say "Chant Hare Krishna" (which seems to be their answer to a lot of things). I started feeling more and more attracted to Lord Ganesha, and I started praying to Him. Now I direct most of my prayers to Him.

 

These are the main things that I have problems with in ISKCON:

1. Bashing other philosophies (Shaiva, Advaita etc) and saying that Lord Shiva is a demigod. Lord Krishna Himself prayed to Lord Shiva, as did Lord Rama. Lord Krishna stood on one leg for ages to gain the favour of Lord Shiva, and ISKCON devotees say that "Krishna pays respect to Lord Shiva". The Vishnu Purana states (5.33.46):

 

yo harih sa sivah saksad yah sivah sa svayam harih

ye tayor bhedamati sthan narakaya bhave nnarah

 

"Whoever is Lord Hari, He Himself is Lord Shiva indeed.Whoever is Lord Shiva, He Himself manifests as Lord Hari. Anyhuman being who mistakes both the Lords to be different, he or she surely goes to Naraka (hell)."

 

This is from one of the Puranas that ISKCON holds to be "in the mode of goodness".

 

2. Saying that you should not extensively associate with non-devotees, read non-devotional books etc. One devotee told me that I shouldn't waste time watching TV programmes. I think that this is going too far. How can you avoid associating with non-devotees if you work?

3. Their teaching on gambling - yes, it can be harmful if done to excess, but I don't see the harm in buying a 1 ringgit lottery ticket. When I asked a devotee on LiveHelp, she said that gambling destroys truthfulness because you cheat and you want to get more through dishonest means. As if anyone could cheat on the lottery!

4. Their teaching on sex. I don't believe that sex is for procreation only. Yes, procreation is the end of sex, but that doesn't mean that sex for pleasure or bringing the husband and wife closer together is wrong. The Catholic Church says that procreation is the end of sex as well, but they don't condenm sex for pleasure as long as the couple are open to children (i.e. no contraception is used).

5. Some of their dietary requirements. First of all, I am a vegetarian and I believe that eating meat is engaging in a disgusting conspiracy of violence against helpless animals. However, I see no harm in onions and garlic, and also caffeine. I don't smoke or drink alcohol (or take drugs, because drugs are bad, m'kay), but I do drink Pepsi. I would also not be able to live up to their standard of eating only food cooked by devotees and offered to Lord Krishna. Because I work until around 9:30-10pm, I have to eat two meals away from home. None of my workplaces have microwaves, so I am forced to rely on food from restaurants (or instant noodles). Most Indian restaurants in Malaysia have vegetarian options, and there are vegetarian restaurants and stalls as well.

6. Not allowing a devotee to take a Hindu name until initiation. Other sects of Hinduism allow a person to enter Hinduism by a Namakarana Samskara, where they choose a Hindu name. Initiation is different - even born Hindus with Hindu names get new names on initiation. Most people won't have heard of Narendranath Datta, but when he was initiated by his guru, he was given the name Vivekananda, by which he is much more widely known.

5. Chanting Hare Krishna as a "panacea" for every problem. The same devotee who I talked to about the gambling told me the Ten Offenses Against the Holy Name (which I already knew). I told her that I still had material attachments (the Tenth Offense), and she said "Keep chanting". What is the point of chanting when you are committing offenses and creating more bad karma for yourself? The cure for committing offenses against the Holy Name is to just keep chanting the Holy Name with offenses? I noticed that my life didn't get any better when I started chanting Hare Krishna.

6. Claiming that the Srimad-Bhagavatam is better than the Vedas as it is meant for this age. The Vedas, they say, were meant for previous ages, and the Scriptures for this age are Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. Where in the Vedas is that stated? It isn't. It might be stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, but then that's not any authority. If a person states that he is the Prime Minister of Malaysia solely on his own authority, then that doesn't make it true. Only if the proper authority (the King) acknowledges such a person as the Prime Minister does that make him the Prime Minister. Likewise, the Srimad-Bhagavatam would only be recognized as greater than the Vedas for this age if one of the four Vedas stated it.

[Haridasdasdas]

I think perhaps my only real concern with Iskcon is that often they miss the big picture. And yes, there are morning prayers in Iskcon, there are two each morning at every temple.

 

My personal views.

 

1) Siva is not a demigod, he is Visnu Tattva, A swami explained this to me and I have read it for myself. However, devotees don't like to overload newcomers, and it's a simple explanation for people who are new to these ideas.

2) As far as I am concerned, it's a matter of giving association rather than taking it, and this is a personal matter. I have non-devotee friends, I read classic literature and philosophy from time to time. Oh, and occaisionally I like movies and some TV programmes. It's all about influence. Who is influencing you? That's all there is to it as far as I am concerned. These rules spring from a time when not associating with non-gaudiyas was relatively easy for many. Most devotees have association of others. Movies and TV are maya. I am in Maya. I regularly go to Mayaholics anonymous.

3) Gambling is driven by greed, if it is a tiny bit of gambling, it is a tiny bit of greed. It's not a spiritual activity, and this is why it is also banned in Christianity.

4)I don't think it is realistic to expect everyone to follow this. Sex outside of procreation is not Krishna Conscious, but I don't beleive that everyone can live this way (and most dont) every hour, and that within marriages allowances must be made, and people need to be hoenst with themselves. Any married couple who can practise celibacy are defiantely saintly people.

5) I don't know very many people, outside of those living in and around temples, who never eat foods cooked by nondevotees.

6) There is no such rule. Also, Iskcon/Gaudiya Math do nto liek to think of themselves as 'Hindus'.

5(again) Becoming Krishna Conscious is the solution, chanting is a means.

6(again) This is subjective really. Not a resolvable argument either way. Then again, when was your last Surya Yajna?

 

I think this is another example of the cart being put before the horse. The point is not how your hair is cut, the point is to be Krishna Conscious, and people lose sight of that in a myriad of regulations.

[Sonic Yogi]

Technically, you cannot "leave KC" as "KC" is eternal.

If you "leave KC", then you never really had any "KC" because "KC" is an eternal, spiritual state of existence.

 

If one says he "left KC", then that means he never had any "KC" to begin with.

[stonehearted]

I don't think I've ever been to KC. We might have driven through it when I was a kid.

[theist]

We do make the simple seem so complicated sometimes. KC or Krishna consciousness is not a religious formulea of some kind.

 

It simply means being conscious of Krishna.

 

To leave Krishna consciousness means to become forgetfull of Krishna which is also called becoming covered by maya.

 

This is the eternal choice of the marginal living being.

 

Deliberate fully and then make your choice Lotus Flower.

 

Continue to blossom or fall back into the murky pond.