galaxy18 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 During a morning walk on June 7, 1976, an exchange took place between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples on the subject of siddha-pranali, which was prompted by Prabhupada's concern about the so-called "L.A. gopi-bhava club". Below I'll quote a short excerpt from that conversation. Prabhupada: Then everything will be finished. Preaching will be finished. In this sahajiya party, then preaching will be finished. Siddha-pranali. Tamala Krishna: What does that mean, Srila Prabhupada, siddha-pranali? Prabhupada: Siddha-pranali is nonsense. They have manufactured a siddha-pranali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxy18 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 One who is a Prabhupada-anuga is certainly a raganuga-bhakta. Is not Srila Prabhupada an eternal resident of Vrndavana? So if we aspire to follow Srila Prabhupada in his service to Krishna, there is no doubt that this is raganuga-bhakti. If we remember Srila Prabhupada's instructions and example in devotional service, that is smaranam, the essential limb of raganuga-bhakti. Srila Prabhupada's instruction to us is the same as Gauranga Mahaprabhu's to Lord Nityananda and Shrila Haridasa Thakura: prati ghare ghere jai kara aei bhiksa bolo krishna bhaja krishna kare krishnasiksa--"Go from door to door and beg everyone you see to chant Krishna's holy name, worship Krishna and hear the philosophy of Krishna consciousness." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxy18 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Was Srila Prabhupada neglectful of siddha-pranali while he was with us because he had so many other preparatory things to accomplish? Was it because his own disciples were not yet ready for siddha-pranali? No-- Srila Prabhupada was simply following in the footsteps of his own spiritual master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxy18 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 It is said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati told his disciples that their siddha-pranali mantra was "trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena KIRTANIYA SADA HARI". And it is said that when Srila Gaura Kisora das Babaji, when asked by someone to reveal their svarupa, replied, "Your svarupa will be revealed in the syllables of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra." The gostyanandi devotee is helped by Krishna's special mercy, because Krishna is so especially pleased by the preacher. By preaching constantly under the order of Shri Shri Guru and Gouranga, one keeps constantly in the state of smaranam, remembering Krishna. By constant rememberance of Krishna one always associates with Krishna. And by association with Krishna on the liberated platform, one receives his spiritual form as given by Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxy18 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Krishna is not different from His holy name. As one starts to chant, he is liberated from material contact, and the more one is liberated from material contact, the more his chanting engenders loving rememberance Krishna, and the more one lovingly remembers Krishna, the more do the qualities of Krishna manifest within that devotee (krishna bhakte krsnere guna sakala sancari, from C.c. Madhya 22.75), including the quality of satcidananda vigraha (spiritual form). So we should simply depend upon our service to the holy name in the sankirtana movement for all success. One of the main reasons for the breakdown of the Gaudiya Math after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's disappearance was the loss of faith in this very point--that by simply by preaching the glories of the holy name, all spiritual qualities would manifest in the disciple. Some devotees deviated by taking to the siddha-pranali method. This again showed the same influence of the manufactured siddha-pranali tendency, which was forbidden by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. So these stories just show how careful we must be to "don't to try to add something new", as Srila Prabhupada so often warned. This so-called siddha-pranali method is not approved by the acharyas, so it is therefore quite fruitless to try to practice it, even if we think there is a qualified Vaishnava-guru who can initiate us into it. Shrila Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji compared this raganuga-bhakti or siddha-pranali attempt to a woman who goes into the maternity ward of a hospital, lays in a bed and moans as if she's about to give birth--though she is not even pregnant. She can "practice" all she likes, but she will never give birth that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 This so-called siddha-pranali method is not approved by the acharyas, so it is therefore quite fruitless to try to practice it, even if we think there is a qualified Vaishnava-guru who can initiate us into it. All the acharyas in our line up to Srila Bhatisiddhanta followed the siddha-pranali method. Certainly this is not meant for the neophytes to practice, but the method itself is still valid today, as it was 100 or 200 years ago. Bhaktivinoda initiated his younger son, Lalita Prasada into siddha pranali, but not his older son, Bhaktisiddhanta. Perhaps it was the difference in their devotional mood that dictated this course of action to Srila Bhaktivinoda. Thus for about 100 years siddha pranali has been absent in our line but most other Gaudiya Vaishnava parivars continued to practice it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 The term "siddha-pranali" is not found in any of the writings of Srila Rupa Goswami or any of the principle Gaudiya Goswamis. The term siddha-pranali was manufactured by sahajiyas and is a cheap imitation of something beyond anything sahajiyas are capable of. That some Gaudiya acharyas accepted the practice was only for preaching purposes of gaining credibility within the sects of Gaudiyas that practice it, even though the great Gaudiya acaryas did not attain "siddha deha" through the imitation siddha-pranali process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 The term "siddha-pranali" is not found in any of the writings of Srila Rupa Goswami or any of the principle Gaudiya Goswamis. The term may not be there, but the process IS: Bhakti-rasämrita-sindhu 1.2.295 sevA sAdhaka-rUpeNa siddha-rUpeNa cAtra hi | tad-bhAva-lipsunA kAryA vraja-lokAnusArataH || The Raganuga practitioner desirous of becoming an eternal Brajavasi, should follow in the moods and mellows of those particular associates in two ways: - externally, in the sadhaka-deha (practitioner body) one should follow the rules of shastra - internally, in one’s siddha-rupa (eternal body, conceived in the mind) one should perform manasi-seva to Krishna in the company of His dearest Vrindaban companions.” The following Bengali translation by Krishna Das Kaviraj re-affirms Sri Rupa’s intention in Madhya 22.156-157: bāhya, antara, — ihāra dui ta' sādhana 'bāhye' sādhaka-dehe kare śravaṇa-kīrtana 'mane' nija-siddha-deha kariyā bhāvana rātri-dine kare vraje kṛṣṇera sevana Raganauga sadhan bhakti is both external and internal. Externally the sadhak performs shravan, kirtan and the other processes of Vaidhi Bhakti. Then, in one’s mentally conceived siddha-deha, service to Krishna in Vrindaban should be “internally” executed both day and night. This (Raganuga bhakti) ihāra is really ta' a dual dui Practice sādhana – external bāhya (and) internal – antara Externally 'bāhye' in the trainee body sādhaka-dehe one does kare hearing and chanting śravaṇa-kīrtana In the mind 'mane' one does kariyā visualize (imagine) bhāvana one's own nija perfect body siddha-deha and day and night ratri-dine (in the mind!) one does kare servicesevana for Krishna kṛṣṇera in Vraja vraje. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 An example of introduction to a manjari-svarupa is found in the sixth chapter of Prema-vilasa, as Sri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami bestows diksha-mantra to Srinivasa Acarya. rAdhA-kRSNa-mantra kahe kara-yuge dhari | kAma-bIja zunAila aGguli anusAri || ei saba mantra tumi karibe smaraNa | yei kAle tad-Azraye karibe manana || guNa-maJjarIkAzraye maNi-maJjarIkA tumi | tomAra yUthera vivaraNa kahi saba Ami || rUpa guNa rati rasa maJjulAmaJjula | ei saba saGge saGgI ei anukula || sevA rAgAtmikA rAga bhajanera mata | zrI-rUpa gosAJira vAkya Achaye sammata || sevA nAma sAdhakera yata baDa Artti | tAhA siddha haile haya esa saba prApti || sAdhana karaye deha sAdhaka nAma haya | sakhIra Azraya siddhi jAniha nizcaya || Bhatta Gosvami spoke the Radha-Krishna mantra, holding Srinivasa’s two hands, and explained the counting of kama-bija with fingers. “You should meditate on all these mantras; at that time, contemplate on taking shelter of them. You are Mani-manjari under the shelter of Guna-manjari. I shall tell you all about your yutha (group of sakhis). Rupa, Guna, Rati, Rasa and the charming Manjula – your welfare is in being their companion. In raga-bhajana, seva is like that of the ragatmikas; this is the conclusion in Sri Rupa Gosvami’s words. As great as the sadhaka’s desire for seva and Name is, accordingly siddhi will arrive and all of this be attained. As the sadhaka chants the Names and engages in sadhana in this body, siddhi at the shelter of the sakhis is a certainty.” In this narrative, a description of the siddha-identity of Srinivasa was given at the time of his diksha, to be embraced while enrapt in smarana of the diksha-mantras. As the narrative continues, Sripad Bhatta Gosvami also speaks of engagement in the 64 bhakti-angas and of the need to exercise caution in the course of sadhana, remaining aloof from ninda (slander) and other evil deeds thwarting the path of attainment – all of which is pertinent information for someone about to embark on the path of raga-bhajana. The concrete attainment of the described identity and all that it entails, Bhatta Gosvami notes, will come in proportion with the sadhaka’s eagerness for seva and the worship of the Names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Srila Jiva Gosvami wrote in Bhakti-sandarbha 312: kecid añöädaçäkñara-dhyänaà go-dohana-samaya-vaàçé-vädya-samäkåñöa-tat-tat-sarvamayatvena bhävayanti | yathä caike tädåçam upäsanaà säkñäd vraja-jana-viçeñäyaiva mahyaà çré-guru-caraëair mad-abhéñöa-viçeña-siddhy-arthamupadiñöaà bhävayämi || “Some, while remembering the eighteen-syllable mantra, meditate on the pastimes of tending cows and playing flute, becoming attracted and absorbedin them. In such upäsana (worship), in order to attain my specifically desired perfection, I should meditate on that very form of a resident of Vraja my revered guru has instructed me in." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 “Some, while remembering the eighteen-syllable mantra, meditate on the pastimes of tending cows and playing flute, becoming attracted and absorbed in them. In such upäsana (worship), in order to attain my specifically desired perfection, I should meditate on that very form of a resident of Vraja my revered guru has instructed me in." That means one should meditate on one of the parshadas of Radha and Krishna. We should all know now that one's rasa with Krishna is not appointed by the guru but is accepted by the disciple out of spontaneous attraction. The guru does not mandate the rasa with Krishna or siddha-deha of the disciple. Just as in the Nectar of Devotion of Srila Prabhupada, we find that one will have a natural attraction for a particular rasa with Krishna and then accept the parshada of one's choice as the role model to be emulated and followed. So, meditation on the parshada and aspiring to be like that parshada is the actual process instructed by Srila Rupa Goswami and Srila Prabhupada. Gopal Guru Goswami is not a "Rupanuga" or in the line of Srila Rupa Goswami. Whatever he might have instructed to a few select disciples cannot be then adopted by the Rupanugas as if it was the way given by Srila Rupa Goswami. In the line of Srila Rupa Goswami the siddha-pranali process is not practiced or preached. The whole siddha pranali system is based on something coming from Gopal Guru Goswami and is not actually followed by exclusive Rupanugas like Srila Prabhupada, Srila Sridhar Maharaja or Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami. The false propaganda that "siddha pranali" is the pure and original form of the Rupanuga Gaudiyas is blatantly false and a product of misconception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 On the practical level, giving sannyasa to unqualified neophytes created far more havoc than reading rasika literature by other neophytes. The reputation of our movement was more tarnished by people like Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Hansadutta and so many other rascals pretending to be sannyasis, than by anybody from the much maligned 'Gopi Bhava Club'. But of course the pseudo sannyasis were expert at collecting money for the movement, while the pseudo gopis were simply sitting on their rear end reading books - clearly something had to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 In the line of Srila Rupa Goswami the siddha-pranali process is not practiced or preached. You should read about Vaishnava Saints from OBL Kapoor books to see how wrong that statement is. Bhaktivinoda Thakura received siddha pranali from his guru, Bipina Bihari and passed it onto Lalita Prasada and several other disciples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Recommended reading for all those truly interested in this matter: Chapter 15 of Harinama Chintamani of Bhaktivinoda Thakura, entitled Bhajana Pranali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Recommended reading for all those truly interested in this matter: Chapter 15 of Harinama Chintamani of Bhaktivinoda Thakura, entitled Bhajana Pranali. The bottom line though Kulapavana is that in line of Srila Prabhupada - the Saraswata Gaudiyas, the siddha-pranali process is rejected because it is not required and in fact became mostly associated with the sahajiya sects in India. What might have been practiced by some of the saints of bygone days does not mean in any way that it is at all something mandatory or even practical for the vast majority of Gaudiya Vaishnavas. This siddha-pranali process became so much associated with fraud babas and sahajiyas that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarawati Thakur wanted to purge the practice from Gaudiya Vaishnavism. If you choose to be a proponent and supporter of the siddha pranali concept that is your choice but in doing so you are directly challenging the innovation of the Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya. There again, that is your choice however a bad choice that would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 ultimately you do whatever it is your own devotion and god's will thatt will reach you till god i guess. Remember ramakrishna he started behaving like hanuman and started serving lord ram and he got union with ram. he then worshipped shri krishna as one of gopis, he then got samadhi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 You should read about Vaishnava Saints from OBL Kapoor books to see how wrong that statement is. Bhaktivinoda Thakura received siddha pranali from his guru, Bipina Bihari and passed it onto Lalita Prasada and several other disciples. Bhaktivinoda rejected the guru who gave him siddha pranali, so that is a poor argument. What Bhaktivinoda might have done and his reasons for doing it are really a mystery. What we do know is that Srila Saraswati Thakur rejected the process and the process is not accepted or even respected by the Saraswata Gaudiyas. Bhaktivinoda was not a Saraswata Gaudiya. The Saraswata Gaudiyas are the followers of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur whom did not approve of the siddha pranali process. ISKCON in all it's faults has at least managed to prevent this siddha pranali influence from taking hold in ISKCON. None of the disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur accepted or practiced the siddha pranali process. Siddha pranali is only practiced by some non-Saraswata Gaudiyas. The Saraswata acharyas all were strongly opposed to the practice. If someone chooses to go against their wishes that siddha pranali be purged from the sampradaya they can certainly do that, but such a person should certainly not consider himself a follower of Srila Prabhupada if he does so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 The bottom line though Kulapavana is that in line of Srila Prabhupada - the Saraswata Gaudiyas, the siddha-pranali process is rejected because it is not required and in fact became mostly associated with the sahajiya sects in India. Many Vaishnavas in our movement who practiced sincerely for the last 30-40 years are quite ready for siddha pranali. Demonizing this process is not the way to go. Some of the innovations of Saraswata sampradaya gurus have proven themselves to be failures in the long run. IMO Iskcon has swung too much in the direction of external practices - when great sadhus like Narayana Maharaja are routinely viewed as sahajiyas by the Iskconites - that is a horrible, horrible attitude. I would rather deal with sahajiyas than Vaishnava aparadhis, gay sannyasis, and leaders with gigantic egos incapable of managing even a simple project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Bhaktivinoda rejected the guru who gave him siddha pranali, so that is a poor argument. That is a total lie. Nowhere in his writings does Bhaktivinoda indicate that he considered anyone but Bipin Bihari as his guru and he continues to praise his guru as a nitya-siddha manjari untill his last days. Unfortunately Saraswatas produced many false stories to prove that their 'innovations' had the backing of Bhaktivinoda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 That is a total lie. Nowhere in his writings does Bhaktivinoda indicate that he considered anyone but Bipin Bihari as his guru and he continues to praise his guru as a nitya-siddha manjari untill his last days. Unfortunately Saraswatas produced many false stories to prove that their 'innovations' had the backing of Bhaktivinoda. What you think you know about Bhaktivinoda is not approved by Srila Saraswati Goswami. It is well known fact that Srila Bhaktivinoda rejected Vipina Bihari Goswami. It is well documented that a rift caused Bhaktivinoda to reject Vipina Bihari Goswami. Insiders of the time have documented it and it is no secret except to outsiders from the siddha pranali section who like to try and validate their bogus siddha pranali by citing Bhaktivinoda as evidence. Bhaktivinoda also wrote Sri Krishna Samhita before he ever met Vipina Bihari Goswami, so he was obviously a realized siddha before he ever met Vipina Bihari Goswami. That is what the siddha pranali imitators won't admit is that Bhaktivinoda was a siddha before he ever knew Vipina Bihari Goswami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Many Vaishnavas in our movement who practiced sincerely for the last 30-40 years are quite ready for siddha pranali. Ready for siddha pranali? No Saraswata Gaudiya will ever be ready for siddha pranali because it is outlawed in the Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya. Siddha deha is an internal realization. It is not something that your guru has to tell you about. One's siddha deha will be realized upon perfection of Nama bhajan and cannot be artificially assigned to an unfit neophyte. Siddha-deha is an attainment of spiritual trance. It is not something that can be given to a neophyte through some cheap siddha pranali process. The perfect soul takes birth in Vraja-lila where Krishna is performing his pastimes in some universe. He doesn't need prior information about it. Krishna knows his inner heart and will give him the right birth in Vraja lila according to the inner necessity of the devotee. The process of receiving siddha pranali has just become a cheap imitiation of some sort. It is not at all necessary in order to take birth in Krishna lila and naturally develop through a gradual sequence one's rasa with Krishna. That is what Vraja lila provides; a chance for souls coming up to take birth in Vrindavan and realize fully their own love for Krishna. Siddha pranali is mostly just an excuse for not following the instructions of Lord Chaitanya and preaching Harinama all over the world. Siddha pranali is a business for many sahajiyas and therefore the process has been discredited and disgraced. Who needs it? Nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 That is what the siddha pranali imitators won't admit is that Bhaktivinoda was a siddha before he ever knew Vipina Bihari Goswami. Another bogus saraswata myth. Read the autobiograpy of Bhaktivinoda Thakura to find out for yourself. The documented historical truth is that Bipina Bihari rejected Bhaktivinoda Thakura several years after Thakura's death for fabricating evidence to support his claims of the exact place of Mahaprabhu's birth. Bipina Bihari felt cheated by his favourite disciple because it was that fabricated evidence that made BB support BVT cause. He was hurt by such deception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Ready for siddha pranali? Personally? No, not yet, but I sincerely hope i will be before I die. yam yam vapi smaran bhavan tyajantyante kalevaram tam tam evaiti kaunteya sada tad bhava bhavitah (Gita 8.6) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Another bogus saraswata myth. Read the autobiograpy of Bhaktivinoda Thakura to find out for yourself. The documented historical truth is that Bipina Bihari rejected Bhaktivinoda Thakura several years after Thakura's death for fabricating evidence to support his claims of the exact place of Mahaprabhu's birth. Bipina Bihari felt cheated by his favourite disciple because it was that fabricated evidence that made BB support BVT cause. He was hurt by such deception. who cares...... Siddha pranali is not allowed in the Saraswata Gaudiya sect. I am quite fine with that. I don't need or want any bogus siddha pranali from some bogus neophyte who hasn't even perfected his own "siddha deha". I don't care what Bhaktivinoda did. It is none of my concern. I know that siddha pranali is not practiced or allowed in the Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya and that is quite fine with me. I am happy without this cheap siddha pranali siddha deha. I don't need it and I don't want it and that is the way that the majority of devotees in the KC movement feel. The devotees who follow the siddha pranali process are just a small sect of the KC movement. Most followers of Srila Prabhupada know well that Srila Prabhupada was against the practice of siddha pranali. That is good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Good for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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