Siddha-pranali

[Kulapavana]

Ultimately the question is: Does siddha-pranali work as a devotional practice? After all, it is a practice that has been around for a very long time.

 

Based on my research, it CAN work, but it is definitely not for neophytes or even intermediate bhaktas.

 

When a group of third-graders denounce calculus as 'bogus', or 'worthless' that is because they do not know any better. By the time they are in the 12th grade their understanding of math changes and they can properly appreciate the value of calculus.

[Narasingh]

 

If uttering of the holy name cannot be corrupted by the conditioning of the mind why is chanting of the nondevotees to be avoided? Why can it be 'poisoned milk touched by the lips of a serpent'?

 

Sahaja means taking the easy road. Giving sannyasa to unqualified bhaktas is taking the easy road - which mostly led to their fall down and damage to our reputation. You can be a dasya rasa sahajiya as well - this designation is not limited to madhurya rasa.

The point being that sannyas is related to one's actions pertaining to sadhaka deha. It is functional in that it encourages the saranagati so much needed for the divine mercy.

 

Sannyas (in Gaudiya) functions to encourage faith in the raksha of Krsna.

 

Siddha pranali being given becomes a mockery of the confidential nikunja lila considered to be the upper most sanctity by the Gaudiyas when the receiver acts in an unbefitting way.

 

Falling down from sannyas becomes of mockery of the sadhaka system which is established to purify one's soul of anarthas. While falling down from this point is undesirable, it does happen and is understandable. A sadhaka can fall down, a siddha cannot.

 

If one is a Siddha, how can there be anartha? Siddha deha is functional through Prema, which is the goal of the sadhaka. One need not have prema to be a sannyasa...one must have prema to be a siddha.

 

This is why the two are not comparable.

[Narasingh]

 

This is an excellent point. Siddhanta Saraswati saw risks related to Lila Smaranam and therefore he discontinued siddha-pranali. Not because he considered it bogus. Nama-sankirtan does not have those risks, hense his emphasis on nama-sankirtan.

 

There exist suggestions that BSST did give siddha-pranali on more than one occasion.

Thank you Gadadhara dasa

[Narasingh]

 

No, it does not, but is a fact well known among the Gaudiya matha disciples. Many disciples of BSS took siddha pranali from various sadhus after disappearance of their guru. BSS was against premature siddha pranali initiation but not against it's principle. Whether he himself secretly gave siddha pranali to some of his disciples is open to debate.

 

BSS claimed that Gaurakishora was a disciple of Bhaktivinoda Thakura, which is rather debatable, as it was BVT who took babaji vesa from Gaurakishora. BSS claim is based on his observations of relationship between these two great souls (Gaurakishora and Bhaktivinoda). GKDB never made such claims, just like BVT never made claims of being a disciple of Jagannatha dasa Babaji.

 

I would dare to say that both BSST and Srila Prabhupada primarily attempted to create "universal Vaishnavism for the masses" or 'universal religion' and were not that concerned with following the GV tradition.

Your last sentence can be applied toward BVT as well. In his writings there is vast disapproval for much of the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition and a great need for an overhaul. The tradition was noted (by him) to be frought with corruption. One of the greatest being the lack of the faith in the dynamics of Nama seva which can bestow one their Siddha deha through its grace. As you stated, we are encouraged not to hear Nama from contaminated sources. You will find this contaminated source to be overwhelmingly accepted as those who do not have implicit faith in the power of Bhagavan's Nama.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

No, it does not, but is a fact well known among the Gaudiya matha disciples. Many disciples of BSS took siddha pranali from various sadhus after disappearance of their guru.

 

That is a patent lie.

You really should not spout off blatant lies about these things and pass them off as legitimate.

 

Name some of the disciples of Saraswati Goswami who took siddha-pranali after his passing.

 

How is it that Srila Sridhar Maharaja, who was unanimously respected as the most learned and advanced disciple of Srila Saraswati Thakur, was fiercly against this siddha-pranali process if it was so much revered and respected by Saraswati Goswami?

 

You have been fed a lot of lies and distortions by these siddha-pranali types and you are surely suffering from many misconceptions.

 

Until the time of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Gaudiya Vaishnavism had almost wholesale been sunk into sahajiyaism and caste Goswami business.

 

So, that "many lines practiced siddha-pranali" is not a big surprise considering Gaudiya Vaishnavism was practically wholesale contaminated before the time of Bhaktivinoda.

 

Especially, what was the most prominant face of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in India had been reduced down to sahajiyas and caste Goswami business until Bhaktivinoda revived it from the depths of imitationism.

[Kulapavana]

 

Especially, what was the most prominant face of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in India had been reduced down to sahajiyas and caste Goswami business until Bhaktivinoda revived it from the depths of imitationism.

 

You should read something besides standard Saraswata version of GV history before you get on your high horse. Like the Saints of Vraja by OBL Kapoor, who was also one of the Srila Prabhupada's most respected Godbrothers. Incidentally he was also one of those who took siddha pranali after passing of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. He writes that in the foreword to his book.

 

To say that Gaudiya Vaishnavism in India was saved by Bhaktivinoda is a huge ovestatement. GV was, and still is, doing just fine without him, Gaudiya Math, or Iskcon.

 

And if you are talking about depths of imitationism and depravity in Gaudiya Vaishnavism please do not forget about certain Iskcon characters and exploits from the last 40 years.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

OBL Kapoor, who was also one of the Srila Prabhupada's most respected Godbrothers. Incidentally he was also one of those who took siddha pranali after passing of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. He writes that in the foreword to his book.

 

 

Can you please post the quote instead of just asking everyone to "trust me" on the issue?

 

I have one of his books that I have had for over 25 years and I don't see anything about siddha-pranali in it.

 

Please post your references when you make claims, otherwise we just assume you are spouting off bogus info that you were fed by the sahajiyas of the siddha-pranali party.

[raghu]

 

Obviously, you don't know enough about the Saraswata Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Do you think that some lay devotees on this forum represent properly the Saraswata Gaudiya Sampradaya?

 

So are you saying that you are not a good representative of the Saraswata Gaudiya Sampradaya? Because up until now your aggressive tone would lead us to think that you believe otherwise.

 

 

Why don't you research the history of the Gaudiyas a little before you go judging the whole sampradaya on something you read by strangers on an internet forum.

 

When people profess to be Vaishnavas and yet make bigoted remarks about "caste-brahmins" in India, including "caste-brahmins" in Vaishnava sampradayas, it does make one wonder. Am I to assume then, that you are not a Gaudiya Vaishnava?

 

 

 

The Gaudiya history and tradition are very complicated and well documented.

If you want to know something about the actual Gaudiya tradition you need to consult the proper authorities instead of just accepting everything you read on the internet forum.

 

So in other words, are you now basically telling me to ignore you, Kyros, and others who have been speaking like this?

 

Can I quote you on this?

[Sonic Yogi]

 

So are you saying that you are not a good representative of the Saraswata Gaudiya Sampradaya? Because up until now your aggressive tone would lead us to think that you believe otherwise.

 

 

 

When people profess to be Vaishnavas and yet make bigoted remarks about "caste-brahmins" in India, including "caste-brahmins" in Vaishnava sampradayas, it does make one wonder. Am I to assume then, that you are not a Gaudiya Vaishnava?

 

 

 

 

So in other words, are you now basically telling me to ignore you, Kyros, and others who have been speaking like this?

 

Can I quote you on this?

 

yes

[Narasingh]

I think there were 3 prominent disciples of BSST who took siddha pranali. Ananta Das Babaji (Ananta Vasudeva), OBL Kapoor, and one other who escapes me at this time.

[Sonic Yogi]

The bottom line for me is that the acharya who spread Krishna consciousness and Gaudiya Vaishnavism all over the world did not approve of the siddha-pranali process. He rejected it.

So, for upstart devotees from all over the world to come along and trample on his directives, even though they would otherwise have no knowledge of Krishna or Gaudiya Vaishnavism without the sacrifice and dedication of Srila Prabhupada, is just a thankless insult and offense to the great soul who in fact is responsible for their great fortune of Krishna bhakti.

 

Srila Prabhupada tried strenuously to prevent this siddha-pranali nonsense from infecting the Krishna consciousness movement, but these thankless rascals are now coming along and trying to infect the Krishna consciousness movement with this siddha-pranali nonsense.

 

Such is the degraded foolishness of the western mleccas and Yavanas who have bitten the devotional hand that saved them from Aeons in Hell.

 

Despite Srila Prabhupada's best efforts to defend the Krishna consciousness movement from this infection, these rascals are trying mightily to introduce this siddha-pranali nonsense into the global movement that Srila Prabhupada alone inaugurated.

 

They will get no respect or honor from me.

They have stepped on the head of Srila Prabhupada to become siddha-pranali rascals and in so doing accuse others of passing stool on their head.

 

Obviously, they are thankless rascals that presume to know better than Srila Prabhuapada.

I don't believe that they they do.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

I think there were 3 prominent disciples of BSST who took siddha pranali. Ananta Das Babaji (Ananta Vasudeva), OBL Kapoor, and one other who escapes me at this time.

OBL Kapoor obviously got too close to the locals of Vrindavan and got taken in by their apparent sincerity, even though he ended up stepping over the line drawn in the sand by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

The locals of Braja really have no business infecting the global Krishna consciousness movement with their siddha-pranali nonsense in defiance of the Saraswata Gaudiya acharyas.

 

As Srila Prabhupada says:

S,B, 3.20.4 purport:

 

Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great ācārya of the Vaiṣṇava sect, has, for the present, forbidden us to go to such places of pilgrimage because in this age, the times having so changed, a sincere person may have a different impression on seeing the behavior of the present residents of the pilgrimage sites. He has recommended that instead of taking the trouble to travel to such places, one should concentrate his mind on Govinda, and that will help him.

Narottama das thought it prudent that devotees should avoid Radha-kunda and Vrindavan for the express purpose of avoiding the so-called dhama-vasis who were otherwise infected with some serious misconceptions that were in fact passed off as "the tradition".

 

OBL Kapoor was sadly unable to understand this and got infected by the pervasive atmosphere of Vrindavan at that time.

He was sincere, but he did cross the line of the Saraswata Gaudiya sect.

That doesn't mean that he faces eternal damnation, it just means that he is not strictly in the line of the Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya which is the responsible for the global success of the Sankirtan movement of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

The global Vaishnava community should respect and honor the Saraswata Gaudiya acharyas who are responsible for the global outreach of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

This latest fad of assorted individuals from around the world trying to make claims of the authenticity of siddha-pranali is nothing less than a blatant case of a dog biting the hand that feeds it.

[ranjeetmore]

 

The term may not be there, but the process IS:

 

Bhakti-rasämrita-sindhu 1.2.295

 

sevA sAdhaka-rUpeNa siddha-rUpeNa cAtra hi |

tad-bhAva-lipsunA kAryA vraja-lokAnusArataH ||

 

The Raganuga practitioner desirous of becoming an eternal Brajavasi, should follow in the moods and mellows of those particular associates in two ways:

- externally, in the sadhaka-deha (practitioner body) one should follow the rules of shastra

- internally, in one’s siddha-rupa (eternal body, conceived in the mind) one should perform manasi-seva to Krishna in the company of His dearest Vrindaban companions.”

 

The following Bengali translation by Krishna Das Kaviraj re-affirms Sri Rupa’s intention in Madhya 22.156-157:

 

bāhya, antara, — ihāra dui ta' sādhana

'bāhye' sādhaka-dehe kare śravaṇa-kīrtana

'mane' nija-siddha-deha kariyā bhāvana

rātri-dine kare vraje kṛṣṇera sevana

 

Raganauga sadhan bhakti is both external and internal. Externally the sadhak performs shravan, kirtan and the other processes of Vaidhi Bhakti. Then, in one’s mentally conceived siddha-deha, service to Krishna in Vrindaban should be “internally” executed both day and night.

 

This (Raganuga bhakti) ihāra is really ta' a dual dui Practice sādhana – external bāhya (and) internal – antara

Externally 'bāhye' in the trainee body sādhaka-dehe one does kare hearing and chanting śravaṇa-kīrtana

In the mind 'mane' one does kariyā visualize (imagine) bhāvana one's own nija perfect body siddha-deha

and day and night ratri-dine (in the mind!) one does kare servicesevana for Krishna kṛṣṇera in Vraja vraje.

 

 

Very true...

 

But for sadhak bhaktas...We have to literally 'concieve' the siddha deha in the mind.

 

When we form this bhava sarira and perform bhakti in the mind,that becomes the highest bhakti.It should be done always and it comes by practice.

 

If a person is dumb or deaf,he can't do external bhakti...He has to do this internal bhakti..Everyone has to do it...Sasanga bhakti..(with one's mind.)

 

 

Vamsivat babaji goes one step further and says,"You have cry for His prema.There is no other way.Crying is the fastest way to the goal."

Becoz everything else might increase our ego,"I'm chanting 20 rounds.etc."

 

And crying can happen only when you actually start being aware of the Lord's presence within...remembering His pastimes...how pathetic and disgusting we are...that we don't embrace Him...

Such constant humble feelings and loving sentiments towards Sri NAndanandana will trigger crying.

Gauranga Mahaprabhuji always told His disciples,"Cry for Prema."

 

One if His devotees wouldn't cry in sankirtan.So He told him,"Why don't you cry in front of the Lord while taking His names."

The devotee says,"I try very hard,o Lord.I try my best...But howmuchever humble feelings i try to infuse,i can't cry."

So that devotee,took chillies and came the next day.When everyone would cry and dance,he would quietly put the chillies in his eyes,just for the tears.

Other devotee saw him,he told Gauranga,"He is putting chilli paste in his eyes" .

"Why are you doing that ?" He asked.

 

The devotee said,"I want to cry in front of the Lord.That's why."

Gauranga went and hugged him.

 

and he rebuked the other devotee for doing his own sadhana properly and not observing others.

 

The devotee had so much of surrender....that he immediately won over Gauranga....

[raghu]

 

The bottom line for me is that the acharya who spread Krishna consciousness and Gaudiya Vaishnavism all over the world did not approve of the siddha-pranali process. He rejected it.

So, for upstart devotees from all over the world to come along and trample on his directives, even though they would otherwise have no knowledge of Krishna or Gaudiya Vaishnavism without the sacrifice and dedication of Srila Prabhupada, is just a thankless insult and offense to the great soul who in fact is responsible for their great fortune of Krishna bhakti.

 

Srila Prabhupada tried strenuously to prevent this siddha-pranali nonsense from infecting the Krishna consciousness movement, but these thankless rascals are now coming along and trying to infect the Krishna consciousness movement with this siddha-pranali nonsense.

 

Such is the degraded foolishness of the western mleccas and Yavanas who have bitten the devotional hand that saved them from Aeons in Hell.

 

Despite Srila Prabhupada's best efforts to defend the Krishna consciousness movement from this infection, these rascals are trying mightily to introduce this siddha-pranali nonsense into the global movement that Srila Prabhupada alone inaugurated.

 

They will get no respect or honor from me.

They have stepped on the head of Srila Prabhupada to become siddha-pranali rascals and in so doing accuse others of passing stool on their head.

 

Obviously, they are thankless rascals that presume to know better than Srila Prabhuapada.

I don't believe that they they do.

 

But, as you yourself have indicated earlier, you are not a genuine representative of the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya, and we should not listen to your opinions if we wish to learn about Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

[sant]

edit

[galaxy18]

So Rädhä-Kåñëa philosophy is a very great philosophy. It is to be understood in the liberated stage. Rädhä-Kåñëa philosophy is not to be understood in the conditioned stage. But when we worship Rädhä-Kåñëa in our conditional stage, actually we worship Lakñmé-Näräyaëa. You have seen that picture, this viddhi-märga and räga-märga. Rädhä-Kåñëa worship is on the platform of pure love, and Lakñmé-Näräyaëa worship is on the regulative principles. So long we do not develop our pure love, we have to worship on the regulative principles. One has to become a brahmacäré, one has to become a sannyäsé, one has to perform the worship in this way, in the morning he has to rise, he has to offer. So many rules and regulations. There are at least sixty-four rules and regulations. So we shall introduce them gradually as you develop. So in the viddhi-märga, when you have no love for God or Kåñëa, we have to follow the regulative principles and automatically..., there is practice. When practicing. Just like you practice this mådaìga playing. In the beginning it is not in order, but when you become well versed in the practice, the sound will come so nice. Similarly, when we are engaged by regulative principles in the worship of Rädhä-Kåñëa, that is called viddhi-märga. And actually when you are on the love platform, then that is called räga-märga. So without viddhi-märga, if anyone wants to learn the räga-märga immediately, that is foolishness. That is foolishness. Nobody can pass M.A. examination without going through the regulative principles of primary schools and colleges. So therefore I do not, I mean to say, indulge in the discussions of Rädhä and Kåñëa so easily. Rather go on with the regulative principle at the present moment. Gradually, as you become purified, as you become on the transcendental platform, you'll understand what is Rädhä-Kåñëa. Don't try to understand Rädhä-Kåñëa very quickly. It is a very big subject. If we want to understand Rädhä-Kåñëa very quickly, then there will be so many präkåta-sahajiyäs. In India there are präkåta-sahajiyä. Just like Rädhä-Kåñëa dancing. Rädhä-Kåñëa has become a plaything. The painting Rädhä-Kåñëa, Kåñëa is kissing Rädhä, Rädhä is kissing. These are all nonsense. Rädhä-Kåñëa philosophy has to be understood by the liberated person, not by the conditioned soul. So we shall await for the fortunate moment when we are liberated, then we shall understand rädhä-kåñëa-praëaya-vikåtir. Because Kåñëa and Rädhä, They are not on the material field. Try to understand. This is Jéva Gosvämé's analysis, that Kåñëa is the Supreme Brahman. The Supreme Brahman cannot accept anything material. So Rädhä is not in the material field.( Prabhupada lecture-Montreal, August 30, 1968)

 

http://www.leagueofdevotees.blogspot.com/

[galaxy18]

Who is qualified for Raganuga Bhakti and for hearing Radha Krishna's pastimes?Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in Prema Pradipa Tenth Ray: ei rupa sabhaa ami taha vyakti karile anadhikarir pakse visesa amangala haite pare / ucchisthita satya-samuha ucchapadasta na haile labhya hay na / yemata samasta vijnanasa stre kramasah ucchajnaner udaya haya, tadrupa bhakti-sastrer u ucchadhikara-krame gudha-tattve prapti haiya thake /

"If I explain this topic (Radha Krishna's Pastimes) in the assembly, it could be harmful for the unqualified devotees. Higher truths cannot be attained unless one is situated on a higher platform. Just as higher knowledge gradually arises in all scientific literature, likewise, confidential truths are attained in devotional literatures by proper qualification."

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Sri Caitanya Siksamrta -Chapter 3. Part 2:sajatiyasaya-snigdha sad-gosthi vyatita rasa-vilapa kariben na / vaisnava jagat-samrddhi sambandha bhakta-sanga vyatita janya sanga kariben na "One should not discuss topics of rasa (Radha Krishna's Pastimes) with anyone except highly qualified persons on the same level of spiritual advancement." -

(3) Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Prabhupada, asked that we keep Radharani in great reverence, 'On your head, over your head-don't be bold enough to approach directly: Pujala raga-patha gaurava bhange. Try to keep Her and Her group at a respectful distance, above your head. Don't rush towards that position. It is not that cheap. That is high, very high, and from below we are to honor that.' We must establish this conception, the proper regard for that higher lila, throughout the entire world: 'That is too high.’’’

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Sri Caitanya Siksamrta, Chapter 7, Part 1:itara visaye vairagya prapta jata-prema lokerai rasadhikari / yahara ekhana paryanta suddha-rati u jada-vairagya labha kare nai, tahara rasadhikara janya - viphala cesta karite gele rasake sadhana baliya kadacare pravrtta haibe / jataprema puruser ye bhava sahajei haiyacche, tahai rasa / rasa-vicara kevala ei rase ki ki bhava kiprakare samyojita acche, tahara vivrtti matra / rasa sadhananga naya, ataeva yadi keha balen, aisa tomake rasa-sadhana siksa dei, se kevala tahara durttata va murkhyata matra /"Those who have attained the level of prema and are completely detached from worldly pleasure are qualified for rasa. Those who have not attained pure rati and sense control make futile attempts to become qualified for rasa by practicing rasa. That taste which arises naturally in a person on the level of prema is called rasa. The discussion of rasa is only a description of how the various elements combine in the different rasas; it is not a part of sadhana. Therefore, if anyone says that he will teach you the sadhana of rasa, he is an impostor or a fool."

 

 

http://www.leagueofdevotees.blogspot.com/

 

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[galaxy18]

Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Jaiva Dharma, Chapter 28:ei raser anadhikari ke? anadhikarike hari-nama dana kara yerupa aparadha ei rasa-visaya tahar nikata vyakhya karau tadrupa aparadha /"Who is not qualified to thus taste the nectar of the transcendental rasa? As it is an offense to give the Holy Name to an unqualified person, so it must also be an offense to explain the rasas to an unqualified person."

 

http://www.leagueofdevotees.blogspot.com/

 

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[galaxy18]

Rämeçvara: This is one of their main, the main ideas in their philosophy is that the living entity can desire to have any relationship he wants with Kåñëa.

Prabhupäda: That's all right, he can desire. I already explained: first deserve, then desire.

Tamäla Kåñëa and Rämeçvara: Deserve then desire, oh.

Prabhupäda: You are rascal, how you can desire? You have no qualification, you desire to high-court judge. What is this nonsense?

Rämeçvara: But then they have an answer.

Prabhupäda: What is that answer?

Rämeçvara: That "Let me just try it anyway, to keep my mind thinking..."

Prabhupäda: How you can try it? First of all, be qualified, a big lawyer. Then you become high-court judge. Where is that qualification? You are after illicit sex and biòi and you want to be associated with the gopés.

Rämeçvara: They say that "In ISKCON, we do not..."

Prabhupäda: Let them say all nonsense. They are disqualified. Sahajiyä bäbäjés, that's all

Prabhupäda: And they'll do that. (japa) That sahajiyä tendency is very easy to take up.

Hari-çauri: It seems like it's an inherent thing in...

Prabhupäda: Thinking of Rädhä-Kåñëa lélä, that is in liberated stage, not in the conditioned stage.

( Morning Walk June 7, 1976, Los Angeles)

[galaxy18]

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, from an article in The Gaudiya, 1934:"Those who have chanted hari-nama (64 rounds daily) for fifteen or twenty years should know such things (Radha Krishna's elevated pastimes). The beginners need not hear these topics or they will misunderstand. These topics are for certain audiences, not for all. Also, it is said, apana bhajana-katha, na kahibe jatha-jatha, 'One should not reveal one's bhajana to others.' If we disregard this instruction of our previous acaryas then there may be a permanent fall from the realm of devotional service."

 

http://www.leagueofdevotees.blogspot.com/

[Kulapavana]

 

Srila Prabhupada tried strenuously to prevent this siddha-pranali nonsense from infecting the Krishna consciousness movement, but these thankless rascals are now coming along and trying to infect the Krishna consciousness movement with this siddha-pranali nonsense.

 

In my practical and time tested estimate, the siddha-pranali 'nonsense' is a minimal risk compared to the doctrine of "end justifies the means", giving sannyasa to neophytes and homosexuals, or taking money from criminal activities in the name of 'yukta-vairagya'.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

In my practical and time tested estimate, the siddha-pranali 'nonsense' is a minimal risk compared to the doctrine of "end justifies the means", giving sannyasa to neophytes and homosexuals, or taking money from criminal activities in the name of 'yukta-vairagya'.

Srila Prabhupada had the right to do whatever he did because he in fact was the acharya who established the global Krishna consciousness movement.

 

So, now people like you want to come along and pollute the Krishna consciousness movement with siddha-pranali nonsense that you learned from thankless upstarts who considered themselves to be superior to all the thousands of other devotees around the world.

Now, most of your siddha-pranali people have left Krishna bhakti to become atheists or tantric sahajiyas.

 

Your poisonous attitude of now attacking Srila Prabhupada directly because he gave sannyasa to some men that couldn't keep up the standard is a very telling sign of just how polluted you have become by listening to these siddha-pranali advocates.

 

This Krishna consciousness movement is not yours to tamper with.

The founder acharya who is responsible for the international movement of Krishna consciousness did not allow or condone this siddha-pranali nonsense.

So, really, you should not be tampering with something that you did not build.

 

If you want to paint your own house black that is your choice, but you should refrain from trying to paint a house that is not yours to paint.

 

I would imagine that even if siddha-pranali was a legitimate process the gurus of the siddha-pranali party would not want their followers out all over the world trying to cram siddha-pranali down the throat of another acharya's followers who were told by their guru to neglect the siddha-pranali process.

 

Even if I were a follower of the siddha-pranali process, that last thing I would do is go on the internet trying to make a stink about it and convince ISKCON that siddha-pranali is "the tradition".

 

Siddha-pranali would be something that I wouldn't even broadcast openly.

It would be a very confidential aspect of my bhajan that I would keep private.

 

These braggards coming on internet forums and challenging Srila Prabhupada with their siddha-pranali campaign are all rascals who aren't even fit for practicing the bhajan lifestyle where meditating upon the antascintita deha or imagined spiritual form is even practical.

 

They live worldy lives and are all caught up so many external affairs, yet they want to come on the internet and boast about some form of devotional contemplation that is way beyond their level or ability.

 

Srila Prabhupada designed the global Krishna consciouness movement as a preaching movement to benedict as many souls in the world as possible.

He did not want these siddha-pranali meditators polluting his preaching mission with this siddha-pranali nonsense.

 

The people we find on the internet today trying to advocate this siddha-pranali nonsense are simply instigators who are envious of Srila Prabhupada and trying to cause as much disruption to the movement as possible.

 

I guess if you lick a bottle of honey long enough and don't get any sweet taste you will start to curse the honey bottle and accuse it of having no value.

[Kulapavana]

I gave you a very practical example of actual risks and historical problems versus theoretical risks of misuse of siddha pranali. Instead of addressing the facts, you are foaming at the mouth with hateful personal tirades.

 

I do not belittle what Srila Prabhupada did for the mission of Lord Chaitanya. I deeply appreciate what he has done. It is his disciples like you who belittle the entire mission of Lord Caitanya and Vaishnavism in general with their hate filled self-righteous attitude.

 

Apparently you did not learn how to respect and appreciate other Vaishnavas, especially if they come form a closely related camp. You folks praise Muslims and Christians for being 'Vaishnavas' but denigrate pretty much all other Gaudiyas as 'sahajiyas'. You are basically a sect, a personality cult, and nothing more, each year becoming less and less relevant on the world's scene of religions.

 

If anybody disrupted your movement it was your own leaders and their blind followers, who gave up thinking for themselves out of fear of comitting 'aparadha'.

[Kulapavana]

 

The people we find on the internet today trying to advocate this siddha-pranali nonsense are simply instigators who are envious of Srila Prabhupada and trying to cause as much disruption to the movement as possible.

 

 

Go back to page 1 of this thread to see how this exchange started.

 

Who is advocating siddha-pranali? Who thinks they are ready for it?

 

This thread was started by someone posting one sided opinions about siddha-pranali. I can see now that this devotee has a better understanding of this issue. I am quite happy for him and anybody else who can read this thread without getting his kaupin in a bunch.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

It is his disciples like you who belittle the entire mission of Lord Caitanya and Vaishnavism in general with their hate filled self-righteous attitude.

.

 

There is nothing self-righteous about it.

The whole position of the Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya is to hold up high and worship the path of raga bhakti while keeping oneself assigned to the lower level of vaidhi-bhakti and preaching work.

 

To disregard those who prefer to drag down the path of raga bhakti to the lowest level and make it a cheap imitation is not self-righteous.

It is just rational and reasonable for those who prefer to be a practitioner and not an imitator.