Siddha-pranali

[shiva]

http://vedabase.net/sb/introduction/en

 

 

Many devotees of Lord Caitanya like Śrīla Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura, Śrī Locana dāsa Ṭhākura, Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, Śrī Kavikarṇapūra, Śrī Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī, Śrī Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī, Śrī Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Śrī Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī and in this latter age within two hundred years, Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartī, Śrī Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana, Śrī Śyāmānanda Gosvāmī, Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Śrī Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and at last Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura (our spiritual master) and many other great and renowned scholars and devotees of the Lord have prepared voluminous books and literatures on the life and precepts of the Lord. Such literatures are all based on the śāstras like the Vedas, Purāṇas, Upaniṣads, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata and other histories and authentic literatures approved by the recognized ācāryas. They are unique in composition and unrivaled in presentation, and they are full of transcendental knowledge. Unfortunately the people of the world are still ignorant of them, but when these literatures, which are mostly in Sanskrit and Bengali, come to light the world and when they are presented before thinking people, then India's glory and the message of love will overflood this morbid world, which is vainly searching after peace and prosperity by various illusory methods not approved by the ācāryas in the chain of disciplic succession.

[Kulapavana]

 

Unless you are educated enough in Bhagavat tattva and Radha Krishna tattva the true purpose of those writings for raganuga practice will not be attained.

 

I very much appreciate your thoughtful remarks.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/introduction/en

 

That introduction to SB by Srila Prabhupada was written in India before Srila Prabhupada came to American and before he had thousands of disciples.

 

However, later on, in his books, after he had acquired thousand of disciples and followers, he gave explicit instruction that in the Krishna consciousness movement he was limiting the study of Vaishnava literatures to Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavatam, NOD and CC.

 

 

 

These are things that experienced devotees of the Krishna consciousness movement can share with those who do not understand such detailed experience in the Krishna consciousness movement.

[shiva]

 

That introduction to SB by Srila Prabhupada was written in India before Srila Prabhupada came to American and before he had thousands of disciples.

 

However, later on, in his books, after he had acquired thousand of disciples and followers, he gave explicit instruction that in the Krishna consciousness movement he was limiting the study of Vaishnava literatures to Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavatam, NOD and CC.

 

 

 

These are things that experienced devotees of the Krishna consciousness movement can share with those who do not understand such detailed experience in the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Prabhupada was only saying that in ISKCON the classes are limited to those books. He didn't say that he didn't want people reading other books. It would be unprecedented for a gaudiya acharya to disallow the study of the works of the Goswamis or other previous acharyas, and in fact he didn't. He may have written that in India but he published that in America and had it distributed around the world to millions of people, if he didn't mean it he would have had it removed.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Prabhupada was only saying that in ISKCON the classes are limited to those books. He didn't say that he didn't want people reading other books. It would be unprecedented for a gaudiya acharya to disallow the study of the works of the Goswamis or other previous acharyas, and in fact he didn't. He may have written that in India but he published that in America and had it distributed around the world to millions of people, if he didn't mean it he would have had it removed.

Anybody that spent any serious time in ISKCON knows that Srila Prabhupada did not approve or allow his disciples to read books other than the ones he translated.

Ask any senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada who actually spent any amount of time around Srila Prabhupada and you will find that Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples reading any books except for the ones he produced in ISKCON.

 

Srila Prabhupada was about reaching out and trying to benefit as many souls as possible.

All his senior disciples know that he wanted them to stick to his books and and put their energy into trying to distribute Krishna consciousness to the fallen souls of Kali-yuga.

 

Any opinion other than that is coming from people who had no personal contact with Srila Prabhupada.

[rasa_prada]

 

You actually think Iskcon had anything to do with being spontaneous? I still remember a late 70's edition of an Iskcon manual on how to properly pass stool and urine. That thing was at least 30 pages long. And as a result, bathrooms in Iskcon temples stunk worse than public toilets in Eastern Europe.

 

Really, there was a huge amount of spontaneity in Iskcon, but it started to dwindle before Prabhupada left. You'd have to at least been there by the time of the CC publishing marathon. After that, since Prabhupada could only do so much about Tamal, things began to stink.

 

And who was he explaining siddha-pranali to? A bunch of sannyasis who knew all about it? Of course not, they never even heard the term before and would 'fall right in line'. But to try to affect the minds of those who 'know all about it', that is a complete waste.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Really, there was a huge amount of spontaneity in Iskcon, but it started to dwindle before Prabhupada left. You'd have to at least been there by the time of the CC publishing marathon. After that, since Prabhupada could only do so much about Tamal, things began to stink.

 

And who was he explaining siddha-pranali to? A bunch of sannyasis who knew all about it? Of course not, they never even heard the term before and would 'fall right in line'. But to try to affect the minds of those who 'know all about it', that is a complete waste.

 

I was in L.A. during that CC Marathon and I can testify that the L.A. temple was ON FIRE during that time.

ISKCON does not get any better than that.

I feel very fortunate to have shared in that ecstasy.

[stonehearted]

 

Anybody that spent any serious time in ISKCON knows that Srila Prabhupada did not approve or allow his disciples to read books other than the ones he translated.

This is simply overstating the case. I have spent enough serious time in ISKCON to take seriously Srila Prabhupada's statement quoted above, that we should read the Goswamis' and other acharyas' books. And that takes into account my being in the LA temple room in 1973 when he said we couldn't understand the previous acharyas' books except through him.

 

I also know for a fact that he approved--perhaps even instructed--Goursundar's project of translating Jaiva Dharma. I was in his room in LA in a private meeting, also in 1973 (no secretary, no GBC guy--he kicked them all out and asked them to close the door), when he expressed surprise that Goursundar went to London to get a Bengali edition from the Gaudiya Math there. Srila Prabhupada said, "If he had asked me, I could have gotten him one very easily."

[Sonic Yogi]

 

This is simply overstating the case. I have spent enough serious time in ISKCON to take seriously Srila Prabhupada's statement quoted above, that we should read the Goswamis' and other acharyas' books. And that takes into account my being in the LA temple room in 1973 when he said we couldn't understand the previous acharyas' books except through him.

 

I also know for a fact that he approved--perhaps even instructed--Goursundar's project of translating Jaiva Dharma. I was in his room in LA in a private meeting, also in 1973 (no secretary, no GBC guy--he kicked them all out and asked them to close the door), when he expressed surprise that Goursundar went to London to get a Bengali edition from the Gaudiya Math there. Srila Prabhupada said, "If he had asked me, I could have gotten him one very easily."

Stoney, should we expect any less from a Siddhaswarupa Ananda (Swami)

graduate who is now involved with Tripurari Swami?

 

Stoney, you are many things, but an orthodox ISKCON man you are not.

 

I did a few years in orthodox ISKCON.

As much as I admire you, I cannot accept your opinion as anywhere near an orthodox ISKCON position.

 

For that, I would have to ask Trivikrama Maharaja or Jayadvaita Swami.

 

But, then again, I am sure you know that I am now less orthodox than you are by many large steps.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

This is simply overstating the case. I have spent enough serious time in ISKCON to take seriously Srila Prabhupada's statement quoted above, that we should read the Goswamis' and other acharyas' books. And that takes into account my being in the LA temple room in 1973 when he said we couldn't understand the previous acharyas' books except through him.

 

I also know for a fact that he approved--perhaps even instructed--Goursundar's project of translating Jaiva Dharma. I was in his room in LA in a private meeting, also in 1973 (no secretary, no GBC guy--he kicked them all out and asked them to close the door), when he expressed surprise that Goursundar went to London to get a Bengali edition from the Gaudiya Math there. Srila Prabhupada said, "If he had asked me, I could have gotten him one very easily."

Prabhu, that flys in the face of documented statements that Srila Prabhupada put in his books.

What is a bhakta to do?

Should we accept what he put in his books or should we accept the tales and stories that old ISKCON devotees tell?

 

I mean, really..... what should we put our faith in?

[Narasingh]

Let's not forget that those books were edited, adjusted, and published by these "old ISKCON devotees" Sonic Ji. Have we ever stopped to wonder how much has changed from the words of Prabhupada to the pages of your book?

[stonehearted]

 

Stoney, should we expect any less from a Siddhaswarupa Ananda (Swami)

graduate who is now involved with Tripurari Swami?

You're making the same mistake made by a former ISKCON temple president, back in 1973. Simply because I was from Hawaii, this poor character assumed I was Siddha's follower. In fact, I was living in the Honolulu temple for almost a year before Siddha joined, and I was never his follower. He was my friend, but he was never my guru.

 

 

Stoney, you are many things, but an orthodox ISKCON man you are not.

 

I did a few years in orthodox ISKCON.

As much as I admire you, I cannot accept your opinion as anywhere near an orthodox ISKCON position.

Yeah, lots of foolish people claimed we weren't really ISKCON in Hawaii. Srila Prabhupada had a different opinion. The truth is that I was deeply involved in the old ISKCON for several years before your brief dabbling in ISKCON life.

 

Whether I'm orthodox ISKCON or not may be a different question. Krishna-kirti, my right-wing friend, might tell you I'm a Reformed ISKCON type, rather than an Orthodox ISKCON type. Some people here in Alachua will say different things, Frankly, I don't give a damn about such silly labels.

 

 

For that, I would have to ask Trivikrama Maharaja or Jayadvaita Swami.

Well, depending on what you ask them about, you're likely to get very different answers. Have fun with that.

 

 

But, then again, I am sure you know that I am now less orthodox than you are by many large steps.

Um, congratulations? (I don't know what sort of response you want for your declaration. I just find it kind of sad when someone think they have to compare themselves to me to feel better. You might want to aim a little higher next time.)

[stonehearted]

 

Prabhu, that flys in the face of documented statements that Srila Prabhupada put in his books.

What is a bhakta to do?

Should we accept what he put in his books or should we accept the tales and stories that old ISKCON devotees tell?

 

I mean, really..... what should we put our faith in?

You should repose your faith in the process of sad-anga saranagati, the life of all the devotees. Whether you believe anything I say, or anything Srila Prabhupada says, certainly has nothing to do with me.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

You should repose your faith in the process of sad-anga saranagati, the life of all the devotees. Whether you believe anything I say, or anything Srila Prabhupada says, certainly has nothing to do with me.

 

Ok, I am convinced.

Now, where is a siddha-pranali guru who can give me an imaginary spiritual body, because I have lost hope of ever getting the real thing.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Let's not forget that those books were edited, adjusted, and published by these "old ISKCON devotees" Sonic Ji. Have we ever stopped to wonder how much has changed from the words of Prabhupada to the pages of your book?

 

Well, I have to confess that I read other books. I was reading the Gaudiya Matha version of Jaiva Dharma back in 1980. I also read the Gaudiya Matha publication of Brhat Bhagavatamritam too. In fact, I still have those books.

They aren't the original ones I had, but they are the same book that I managed to pick up over years from various sources.

I was reading Gaudiya Matha publications since back around 1979.

But, I did so thinking that Srila Prabhupada would probably not approve.

I have always been somewhat of a rebel.

I also like OBL Kapoor's books.

 

But, I have my doubts about whether Srila Prabhupada would approve.

 

So, it is not a matter of what I personally do, but what I am saying on this topic is what I think Srila Prabhupada would want.

 

I am far from the perfect disciple.

In fact, I can't even be called a disciple at all.

[stonehearted]

 

Ok, I am convinced.

Now, where is a siddha-pranali guru who can give me an imaginary spiritual body, because I have lost hope of ever getting the real thing.

I'm certainly the wrong guy to ask about that. I'm afraid I'm pretty solidly lined up behind Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and Srila Prabhupada. I'm working on dedicating my life to the holy name, who is competent to reveal our inherent identity.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

our inherent identity.

 

That is the issue that I am still grappling with.

Is it really inherent to the degree of our spiritual body already being there in some esoteric form, or do we get develop a spiritual body based upon cultivating a particular type of attraction to Krishna?

 

It seems that in Srila Prabhupada's books I can find support for both theories.

What is your opinion Stoney? (not to insinuate that you are a stoner, but that your heart is filled with love of the stones from Govardhana)

 

I am kind of partial to the concept that the spiritual body develops according to the spiritual cultivation of a particular attraction to Krishna in a particular mood.

I don't think that the body is already there, but that the intrinsic nature of being a servant of Krishna is innate to the soul.

Beyond that basic dharma of the soul to serve Krishna, I am not so convinced that our particular rasa is fixed in the constitution of the soul, but that it evolves based upon subjective influences.

[Kulapavana]

 

Really, there was a huge amount of spontaneity in Iskcon, but it started to dwindle before Prabhupada left. You'd have to at least been there by the time of the CC publishing marathon. After that, since Prabhupada could only do so much about Tamal, things began to stink.

 

And who was he explaining siddha-pranali to? A bunch of sannyasis who knew all about it? Of course not, they never even heard the term before and would 'fall right in line'. But to try to affect the minds of those who 'know all about it', that is a complete waste.

 

Good points.

 

I do not blame Srila Prabhupada for making sure Iskcon is all about orthodoxy, as he was dealing with a very unruly bunch of disciples. Then again, he was the one who kept them in power. He initially assembled a very dynamic team, who really put KC on the map. Yet later the egos and ambitions of these folks tore his movement to pieces. He had to make some very tough choices.

[ranjeetmore]

 

Ok, I am convinced.

Now, where is a siddha-pranali guru who can give me an imaginary spiritual body, because I have lost hope of ever getting the real thing.

 

 

You think you have a spiritual form right now ???

 

That's saying you are Bhagavan.

 

Only Bhagavan is indifferent from His form.Your spiritual body will be attained according to your bhava.This is final.

 

 

Only Sri Radha Krsna are indifferent from Their body.If you say you are too,then you should be classified as Svarupa shakti vishisht ansha-like the ashta sakhis or any form of God.

 

 

Till yesterday i would've liked to be a mother-like to Sri Krsna.Today,after hearing His pastimes,I would like to be in Nikunj,with the gopis.Then I start the sadhana as considering myself with a body conforming to that bhava.

So where is your original svarupa gone ????

[ranjeetmore]

oops i didn't read post #167 sorry.My bad.

[ranjeetmore]

but then you confuse me..

 

let me get this straight as i've frankly never heard the term before.

 

Kulapavana ji,

Is siddha pranali : concieving an imaginary bhava deha in the mind and performing service to the Divine couple in smarana ????

[ranjeetmore]

 

If the Maha-mantra can't get the job done, then nothing else is going to work any better.

What works is the Maha-mantra.

Hearing some imaginative description of some imaginative spiritual form is not going to help if your Nama bhajan isn't producing amazing results.

 

Krishna is not looking for meditative powers and imaginative ability.

He is looking for sincerity that is most easy practiced in service to his pure devotee -- the Acharya (Srila Prabhupada)

 

Krishna wants to see us serving the mission of the nitya-siddhas that he sends here on his behalf to distribute knowledge and devotion to the fallen souls.

 

Krishna is not impressed with our siddha-pranali meditation that is practiced in neglect of the missionary work that the acharyas come to do.

 

No offense but...

 

It's like saying,"I will serve the poor people.Eventhough I am myself a beggar,I will help them."

 

If prema is not there,how can anyone reform others ???

 

He himself will fall down.He has no bank balance.He has no experience of Sri Krsna even in the least degree.

 

Bhaktivinode thakur says,"If your just chanting mechanically,there's no use."

 

YOU CAN"T ADVANCE BY SIMPLY CHANTING,WHEN YOUR THINKING ABOUT HALWA AND PURI.

 

The MIND ENGAGES PERFECTLY when it is thinking about what services to perform to the Divine couple,with a clean,capable body(means spiritual body.)

 

And since,we cannot even concieve a spirtual body,we have to make do with an imaginary one(beautiful,fragrant,etc etc.)

 

The Brahmana in Bhagavatam...he would do this smarana religiously.He would imagine a gold plate,the best food,the best clothes for Sri Krsna.

 

Once,in his smarana,he put his hand in the plate,to check if it's too hot to serve the lord.His finger burnt and his smarana broke.He was astonished to see his finger burnt.

 

WE CANNOT EVEN SEE THE REAL FORM OF GOD,WHICH SHANKARA,etc. SEE.

 

We have to remember.As soon as our smarana becomes more and more clear and infused with surrender and love,Bhagavan will keep providing His svarupa sakti.

 

We experience ananda and that is how we keep on the sadhana track.When such smarana is advanced,we slowly begin to realise the indifference of Govinda and His names.THEN THE REAL FUN BEGINS.ONLY THEN YOU start taking SRI NAMA.

 

Before that is just nama bhasa and in 99.999% cases,Namapraadha.

 

Radhe Radhe.

[ranjeetmore]

 

 

 

Without understanding Radha Krishna tattva you will misunderstand the writitngs of the Gaudiya acharyas on rasa-lila. You will take it all literally, when in fact the authors were fully aware of Radha Krishna tattva and their writings are for people who are also fully aware of Radha Krishna tattva. Those writings when taken literally appear to be only about the romantic and erotic pastimes between Radha, Krishna, and the sakhis and to a lesser degree the sakhas; with the focus on the erotic rasa between Radha and Krishna, and to a lesser degree the rasa between the sakhis and Radha and the sakhis and Krishna. But in reality those relationships make no sense if you understand that Radha and Krishna are the same person, and that the sakhis are the same person as Radha. They are all the same person; and therefore real rasa is not possible between them anymore than you can enjoy rasa with your image in a mirror; you cannot enjoy rasa with yourself, rasa can only be enjoyed when there is a real relationship as opposed to a pretend relationship.

 

My point to you was that when devotees get involved with a mistaken conception of lila, than their lila-smaranam will not be effective. They will waste their time imagining those descriptions of lila to be literal truth, when in reality the real esoteric intent of those writings will not even be perceived by them.

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written:

 

 

Oh my god.Oh my God.

 

Did you just say that Radha Krsna pastimes are not literal ???

 

Radha EMANATES FROM SRI KRSNA.This is given even in the vedas for God's sake.

Sri Radhika Herself is Sri Krsna and vice versa.But there ARE TWO FORMS FOR LEELA"S SAKE.

 

If you say that an ordinary bhakta CANNOT understand the nature of rasa,you are wrong.

 

WE CANNOT TASTE/UNDERSTAND the Rasa itself.We,in our present condition,cannot understand what kind of bliss Yashoda or Lalita,Vishakha experience.HOWEVER,we can understand the NATURE.It is spiritual,etc. etc.

 

To UNDERSTAND THIS,

"Siddhanta bali aa chitte na kor aalas."- Gauranga Mahaprabhu.

 

In understanding siddhanta in theory,never be lazy.

 

If a rascal points out that Sri Radha Krsna's pastimes were like this and like that,even a devotee,who has zilch realisation points out the sastric conclusions and he himself is firm in knowing that Their pastimes cannot be anywhere near material.

So,even in smarana,he infuses this sentiment.

 

Sri Rupa said there are no restrictions in bhakti.You dress Shyamsundar,you braid Radha's hair in smarana...this is not demoniac...this is developing attachment towards God.

 

Yes,but if you are straight and you think you can do shringaar of Radha,you are sahajjiya.Only Sri Krsna is the object to profess the various bhavas to.

 

Kubja performed sakaama bhakti.She wanted to enjoy Sri Krsna.Kaama bhava she had.Did she get Goloka ?

Yes.Sir.

 

So what did she do ??

Demonstrate on others her sentiments ???(this is sahajjiya)

No.

 

She yearned for Sri Krsna i.e. she constantly remembered Him.She didn't want satisfaction of her present body(this is like asking svarga from bhagavan.)

 

She wanted Sri Krsna.(even if it was sakaam.)

 

She perfected her remembrance.Period.

 

Kamsa.He would see Sri Krsna in HIS FOOD PLATE !!!

 

I myself have thought of seeing old ghosts of women when i was small,coz i used to constantly think of them when i was alone..

 

so kamsa used to think of Sri Krsna constantly.He went to goloka.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Sri Radhika Herself is Sri Krsna and vice versa.But there ARE TWO FORMS FOR LEELA"S SAKE.

Not really.

Radha is not Krishna.

Krishna is not Radha.

Radha is Krishna's love for himself.

Love of one's self is the first law of being.

It is no different for Krishna.

Krishna's love of himself takes the form of Radha.

Radha is the manifestation of Krishna's internal power of ever increasing ecstasy.

 

Radha is NOT Krishna.

She is the personification of his internal ecstasy.

To say that Radha is Krishna or that Krishna is Radha is wrong.

Radha is a portion of Krishna, not Krishna.

Radha is the ecstasy of Krishna's love of himself personified in form.

 

This idea that Radha is another form of Krishna is just silly neophyte concoction.

 

We have seen this "Radha is another form of Krishna" nonsense many times from a particular "devotee" who is actually infected with a Mayavada conception of Krishna.

 

He says that Radha is just another form of Krishna.

He is quite wrong.

Radha is not Krishna.

She personifies the Supreme Absolute's love of Self.

She is not the Supreme Absolute.

[shiva]

 

but then you confuse me..

 

let me get this straight as i've frankly never heard the term before.

 

Kulapavana ji,

Is siddha pranali : concieving an imaginary bhava deha in the mind and performing service to the Divine couple in smarana ????

 

No, that is a form of raganuga-sadhana. Siddha-pranali is a diksa initiation into that proper practice by a guru, it isn't the practice itself. But you don't really need to get that diksa initiation if you have sufficient siksa instruction from authentic sources in order to practice raganuga-sadhana. In the practice itself you are supposed to imagine yourself in a specific sthayi-bhava (primary type of relationship -- like a lover or parent or friend, whichever way you are attracted to follow). Because lila is performed by people with eternally youthful beautiful bodies, you are supposed to conceive of yourself as being youthful and beautiful, you don't need to imagine an actual form though, just imagine yourself as being youthful and beautiful.

 

There are different types and stages of lila-smaranam, although commonly most devotees think only of meditating on the rasa-lila pastimes written in the books or kirtans and bhajans of past Gaudiya acharyas as being the only aspect or type of lila-smaranam; when in fact that type of lila-smaranam is a preliminary stage to bhava-bhakti. It is necessary though in order to understand rasa (the different types of interactions going on between people in lila), and rasa is necessary to understand in order to develop bhava-bhakti ("During bhava, by meditation, the Lord appears in the mind" - from Madhurya Kadambini) In order to attain bhava there is a prerequisite of being firmly educated in Bhagavat tattva, which I explained in an earlier comment in this thread:

 

Krishna is in constant and total control of everything you experience from moment to moment, including the mind and everything you encounter in your environment; awakening to this reality is essential for esoteric authentic lila-smaranam. What lila-smaranam is really supposed to be about is the meditation on remembering the nature of your relationship with Krishna from moment to moment; not in the sense of "I am such and such person in lila", but in the sense of Bhagavat ontology or "Krishna is controlling everything, including me and my thoughts, by constantly remembering this (smaranam) Krishna and his lila can and will be revealed to be all around and within me all of time".

 

Who is qualified for raganuga-sadhana? This is what Rupa Goswami says in Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu:

 

From http://nitaaiveda.com/All_Scriptures_By_Acharyas/Rupa_Goswami/Bhakti_Rasamrita_Sindhuh/EASTERN_DIVISION_OF_THE_OCEAN.htm

 

 

Text 291:

 

tatra adhikari

 

ragatmikaika-nishtha ye vraja-vasi-janadayah |

tesham bhavaptaye lubdho bhaved atradhikaravan || 291 ||

 

Those eligible (for Raganuga Bhakti):

 

Those who are aspirants for or have eager craving or longing for following in the wake of the feelings and sentiments of the Eternal Associates of Braja, possessing firm and one-pointed attachment for Ragatmika Bhakti are alone eligible for this Raganuga Bhakti.

 

Text 292:

 

tat-tad-bhavadi-madhurye shrute dhiryad apekshate |

natra shastram na yuktim ca tal-lobhotpatti-lakshaëam || 292 ||

 

If one's intelligence is no more guided by scriptural prescriptions or dependent on any human and favorable reasoning and arguments after listening to the different Sthayi Bhavas of the Four Categories of the Eternal Associates of the Lord in Braja and also listening to the sweetness of their extraordinary beauties and qualities, then it is considered to be the sign that such craving or intense longing for Raganuga Bhakti has been aroused in ones heart

 

 

Commentary: Commenting on the sloka Shri Jiva Gosvami says that when the sweetness and excellence of the sentiments of Nanda-Yasoda and others of Braja towards Shri Krishna are partly listened to from the Bhagavatam, which establishes the concept of the Absolute Reality, and when from such listening there is also a slight relishing and realization of it, and when the faculty of understanding is no more guided by scriptural injunctions and human reasoning and arguments and is engages in attaining the supra-sweetness of the Bhavas in the wake of the Ragatmikas of Braja, then such a state of mental attitude of the individual may be said to be the sign of the cause of awakening of a spontaneous and eager longing, which is the sign of Raganuga Bhakti.

 

Shri Mukundadasa Gosvami points out that here the word 'tattad-bhavadi' refers to the different sentiments and feelings of the different categories of the Eternal Associates of Lord Shri Krishna in Braja, including Nanda-Yasoda and other Gopas and Gopis, which together with their sweetness, beauties and qualities satiate all the ever-increasing Desires of the Aprakrta or supra-mundane Senses of the All-love Shri Krishna. When these Bhavas and functions of the Ragatmika Associates of Shri Krishna in Braja are listened to from the Bhagavatam and allied Scriptures that deal with the transcendental Pastimes of the Lord written by Rasika Bhaktas, i.e. devotees who have dived deep in the Ocean of Rasa, and when from such listening there is awakened in the heart even for a limited degree a relishing realization of the supreme beauty and sweetness of the Bhavas of the Eternal Gopas and Gopis of Braja, the intellectual faculty of such a person is no more bound by scriptural injunctions nor is such a person any more guided by mere human reasoning and favorable arguments. He is now independent of scriptural dogmas and human reasoning, and is guided by a strong longing for those Bhavas, their sweetness and unsurprising beauties and qualities, and desires to follow in their wake. Such a state is said to be cause and sign of the awakening of this intense craving for Raganuga Bhakti. In the text, the use of 'srute' definitely stresses the great importance of listening to the Bhagavatam about the Bhavas of the Eternal Associates towards Shri Krishna no doubt; but craving in self-pleasures in Kamanuga Bhakti may also be aroused from seeing the beautiful and attractive Shri Murti or the Symbolic Image of Lord Shri Krishna.

 

The special point on which Shri Visvanatha Cakravarti lays stress here is: 'Laksana' or sign of Raganuga Bhakti is used in the sense of inferential knowledge only, because the cause of such carving of longing for Raganuga Bhakti in the wake of Ragtmika-Bhakti, independent of Scriptures and reasoning, can be inferred by knowledge only. Therefore, this sign itself cannot be said to be the nature of the longing as cause of Raganuga Bhakti. The mere fact of non-dependence on Scriptures and reasoning does not necessarily establish the nature and characteristic of such a longing.

 

Text 293:

 

vaidha-bhakty adhikari tu bhavavirbhavanavadhi |

atra shastram tatha tarkam anukulam apekshate || 293 ||

 

Those eligible for Vaidhi Bhakti must depent on Scriptures as well as favourable reasonings and arguments till the flash of bhavas appears in the hearts.

 

Commentary: Shri Jiva Gosvami in his commentary on this sloka observes that as one eligible for Raganuga Bhakti follows in the footsteps of Ragatmika Bhakti, one's Bhakti is limitless i.e. there is no limit to which Raganuga Bhakti may extend and be practiced. But for one eligible for Vaidhi Bhakti, is there any such lined? In answer to such a question, Shri Rupa Gosvami says that a follower of Vaidhi Bhakti has got to practice it to a limit till Bhava appears in his heart. In this connection one may refer to Bhagavatam Canto XI, Chapter 20 and sloka 31 where Lord Shri Krishna addressing Uddava says: "My devotees who are free from all passions, who maintain equanimity of outlook everywhere and under all circumstances and who have attained Me, who am beyond Maya and Mayik influences, and who have feelings for Me with the awakening of Bhavas-flash of Sthay Bhava-in their hearts, such of My exclusive and one-pointed devotees are no longer bound by piety or vice arising out of observance or non-observance, of scriptural prescriptions respectively."

 

Shri Visvanatha Cakravarti observes that in spiritual practices one has got to be guided by scriptural prescriptions and favorable arguments and reasoning so far Vaidhi Bhakti is concerned till Raga is aroused. When such a longing for following in the steps of the Eternal Associates of the Lord in Braja is awakened in the heart, then such a devotee of Vaidhi Bhakti no more depends on, the Scriptures and reasoning. But in Raga-Bhakti, because the thirst for following in the wake of the Bhavas of the Ragatmikas of Braja is inherent from the very beginning, there is never any dependence on scriptural guidance and favorable arguments and reasoning. Thus it is far superior to Vaidhi Bhakti. But when there is a longing for a particular Bhava or Sthayi-Bhava of Braja aroused in the heart of an individual, it becomes necessary that one knows the Object of that particular Bhava for its attainment. It is therefore, necessary that inquiries be made about the Scriptures that deal with such an Object and the relevant desired Bhava in the wake of the Eternal Associates of the Lord of Braja and also for the knowledge of such practices as described in the Scriptures. The point is that Vaidhi Bhakti is completely guided by scriptural injunctions, reasoning and favorable arguments, i.e. arguments that help the cause of Vaidhi Bhakti, whereas the way of Raga is trodden through such Vidhi or scriptural injunctions which aid or favor a spontaneous longing, aroused after listening to the beauties, qualities and sweetness of the sentiments of the Eternal Associates of the Lord in Braja as described by such Scriptures.

 

And Visvanath Chakravarti Thakura gets into the same topic at http://nitaaiveda.com/All_Scriptures_By_Acharyas/Vishvanatha_Chakravarti_Thakura/Raga_Vartma_Candrika.htm