Siddha-pranali

[shiva]

 

Oh my god.Oh my God.

 

Did you just say that Radha Krsna pastimes are not literal ???

 

 

 

I was talking about the lila that is created by acharyas for the purpose of aiding people in their raganuga-sadhana practice. I replied already to someone who asked the same thing, this is what I said:

 

"I'm not saying rasa-lila didn't take place, I'm saying that the rasa-lila created by Gaudiya acharyas serve very specific purposes. Unless you are educated enough in Bhagavat tattva and Radha Krishna tattva the true purpose of those writings for raganuga practice will not be attained."

 

 

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written:

 

 

Goloka-Vrindavana is realizable in the symbolic Vrindavana that is open to our view in this world by all persons whose Love has been perfected by the mercy of the inhabitants of Transcendental Vraja, and not other-wise. The grossest misunderstanding of the subject of the Vraja Lila of Sri Krishna is inevitable if these considerations are not kept in view.

 

In the form of the narrative of the Bhagavatam, the Transcendental Vraja Lila manifests its descent to the plane of our mundane vision in the symbolic shapes resembling those of the corresponding mundane events. If we are disposed, for any reason, to underestimate the transcendental symbolism of the narrative of the Bhagavatam we are unable to avoid unfavorable and hasty conclusions regarding the nature of the highest, the most perfect and the most charming form of the loving service of the Divinity to which all other forms of his service are as the avenues of approach.

[Kulapavana]

 

Kulapavana ji,

Is siddha pranali : concieving an imaginary bhava deha in the mind and performing service to the Divine couple in smarana ????

 

No, there is nothing imaginary about siddha pranali.

After you spend quite some time serving a fully realized sadhu, our guru gets to know us and he reveals to us our spiritual identity. This identity has been growing in us for a very long time - when it is fully grown, a proper siddha can recognize it's form and function. When we are ready, he tells us who he is in Krsna lila, and who we are. The relationship thus formed will continue eternally - thus it is the siddha pranali guru that we have an eternal connection with. We may have several other gurus, but the relationship with them may or may not be eternal.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

No, there is nothing imaginary about siddha pranali.

After you spend quite some time serving a fully realized sadhu, our guru gets to know us and he reveals to us our spiritual identity. This identity has been growing in us for a very long time - when it is fully grown, a proper siddha can recognize it's form and function. When we are ready, he tells us who he is in Krsna lila, and who we are. The relationship thus formed will continue eternally - thus it is the siddha pranali guru that we have an eternal connection with. We may have several other gurus, but the relationship with them may or may not be eternal.

 

That is close to the truth, but in fact it was never called "siddha-pranali" which is a term that is not found in any of the Gaudiya foundational texts.

 

The term "siddha-pranali" is in fact the term used by sahajiyas who have developed a cheap imitation of something that siddha-babas of days of yore practiced.

 

This process that you are referring to in it's pure and authentic form was never referred to as "siddha-pranali" by the actual siddha babas of yore who had the qualifications to actually manifest their spiritual form to their disciples and in fact take the disciple into trance and show the disciple his own form.

 

The term "siddha-pranali" comes from the sahajiya imitation parties.

 

In the heyday of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, during the time of Mahaprabhu and for a few years after that, when a few rare siddha-babas had attained svarupa-siddhi and there were a few rare cases as what is described by Bhaktivinoda in his Jaiva Dharma, the practice was never referred to as "siddha-pranali".

 

The term siddha-pranali was manufactured by and popularized by the sahajiyas sects.

 

It never was used in the authentic lines of the Gaudiya babas.

 

Trust me.......

 

When Srila Prabhupada says siddha-pranali was manufactured by sahajiyas, he is referring to the term and the process as it is in the hands of sahajiyas.

 

Srila Prabhupada was well aware of the process that is described in the Jaiva Dharma.

He just didn't approve of the cheap imitation that is today practiced by the sahajiyas.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

When we are ready, he tells us who he is in Krsna lila, and who we are. The relationship thus formed will continue eternally - thus it is the siddha pranali guru that we have an eternal connection with. We may have several other gurus, but the relationship with them may or may not be eternal.

 

Well, not actually.

That is not the way that it is described in the quote from Jaiva Dharma that you posted which says;

 

 

Goswami: The eagerness of the mind is given order by the eleven aspects of the spiritual identity and fixed in the divine pastimes. Weeping, the disciple falls before his spiritual master’s feet. The spiritual master’s original form as a sakhi manifests to the disciple, as well as the disciple’s form as her maidservant.

 

 

You say the spiritual master "tells us who we are".

So, that is cheating.

In the Jaiva Dharma it says:

 

 

The spiritual master’s original form as a sakhi manifests to the disciple, as well as the disciple’s form as her maidservant.

 

It says here that the form of the disciple "manifests".

 

Your statement that he "tells us who we are" is typical of the kind of cheating sahajiyas that you have wrongly understood this whole process from.

 

There is no "telling".

It is manifested to the disciple in trance.

 

So, this is the difference between what Bhaktivinoda is referring to and what the sahjiyas are selling.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

The spiritual master’s original form as a sakhi manifests to the disciple, as well as the disciple’s form as her maidservant.

It also says that the spiritual master's form is "as a sakhi".

So, if say, Bhaktivinoda was a manjari, then how can he manifest his form as a "sakhi" to say Lalita Prasada?

 

Actually, the Sakhis are the gurus of the Manjaris, so, if the spiritual master is not a "sakhi" how can he manifest the form of a sakhi and perform "siddha-pranali"?

 

Just a thought....

 

 

Was Vipina Bihari Goswami a "sakhi" who manifested his form to Bhaktivinoda when he gave him "siddha-pranali"?

 

Not likely.

[Narasingh]

Perhaps Bhaktivinode's relationship with that sakhi, Vilasa Manjari, occured when he received diksha.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Perhaps Bhaktivinode's relationship with that sakhi, Vilasa Manjari, occured when he received diksha.

 

so, now, diksha is to be equated with svarupa-siddhi?

wonders never cease...

 

Now, the beginning (initiation) is when svarupa-siddhi is attained?

 

That would be a whole new concept of diksha from what has traditionally been known as diksha in the Pancaratrika tradition.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Perhaps Bhaktivinode's relationship with that sakhi, Vilasa Manjari, occured when he received diksha.

 

by the way, how can a sakhi be a manjari too?

[ranjeetmore]

devI kRSNa mayI proktA rAdhikA para devatA

sarva laKSmI mayI sarava kAntis saMmohinI parA

 

(Caitanya Caritamritam Adilia, ch 4, 82-99 -

taken from Brhad-GautamIya-tantra)

 

"The transcendental Goddess Radharani is

NON-DIFFERENT from Lord Sri Krishna.

She is the Origin of all Lakshmi devis,

Who derive Their beauty and powers from.

She possesses all the attractiveness to

attract the all attractive Supreme Lord.

She alone is the Primeval Divine Potency."

 

tayo rip yubhayor madhye

rAdhikA sarvadhAdhikA

mahAbhAva svarUpe yaM

guNair ati garIyasI

 

(Ujjvalanilamani - Sri Roopa goswami)

 

Among the both Divine Personalities,

Radhaji is considered always highest,

as She alone is the embodiment of

the Supreme Bliss of Mahaa Bhaava.

 

yaH kRSNAH sA 'pi rAdhA

yA rAdhA kRSN yeva saH

 

(Narada Panca Ratram)

 

Sri Radha and Krishna are of the same Essence.

The Divine form that has been manifested as Krishna,

is of Radha's and Sri Krishna Himself is the same Radha.

 

ye yaM rAdhA yas ca kRSNo rasAbdhiH

ddehazcaikaH krIdanArthaM dvidA bhUt

 

(RadhikA tapaniyopanishad)

 

The Divine couple, Radha and Krishna constitute

the unfathomable Ocean of ultimate Divine Bliss.

 

They have assumed Two Personalities only to

engage in sublime pastimes of Divine Love.

 

 

 

 

She is the Mother of Lord Mahavishnu. (Brahm Vaivarta Purana)

 

 

Radha ardhtanu hari.

Harirardhatanu radha.

 

Radharani and Sri Krsna are THE SAME.

 

ekam buddhi,eka atma.

They have the same buddhi and They are the same Personality of Godhead.

 

 

Some mahrasiks mainly side with Sri radha,and declare Her Superior,while others side with Sri KRsna and declare Him to be superior.This is done in PURE humour.

 

Even the sadhaka can make such claims humourously,"You made Svayam Bhagavan Sri krsna assume the form of a Gopi and He served Your feet,Oh Radha !"

 

"Sri Radhika is crying for You Oh Sri Krsna !"

 

but the siddhanta is Eternally the same,"Radha and Krsna are not separate at all."

 

It is your speculation that They differ in Their position and/or Person.

[ranjeetmore]

 

 

Krishna is in constant and total control of everything you experience from moment to moment, including the mind and everything you encounter in your environment; awakening to this reality is essential for esoteric authentic lila-smaranam. What lila-smaranam is really supposed to be about is the meditation on remembering the nature of your relationship with Krishna from moment to moment; not in the sense of "I am such and such person in lila", but in the sense of Bhagavat ontology or "Krishna is controlling everything, including me and my thoughts, by constantly remembering this (smaranam) Krishna and his lila can and will be revealed to be all around and within me all of time".

 

 

 

No.Sri Krsna NEVER CONTROLS THE THOUGHTS.We are not rocks that He will control our thoughts/or us.If He was controlling our thoughts,He would keep our minds attached to Him and surrendered to Him,for He is causelessly merciful.

 

He certainly controls the experiences in the sense that His Svarupa sakti gradually strengthens our minds as we practice smarana or in short,according to the percentage of surrender of the mind.

 

As the mind becomes situated in sattva guna...i.e. when it becomes pure,Svarupa Sakti makes the mind spiritual and only then can the mind concieve the pastimes of Sri KRsna.He certainly has visions before this ...but now he is fit to recieve spiritual knowledge.

 

So it is very important to note the fact that WE HAVE TO ENGAGE THE MIND in smaranam of Sri Krsna,whether it is learning to be aware that He is situated as Paramatma in the heart or whether it is remembering His beautiful form and cute pastimes and literally crying out of yearning.

Sri Krsna notes this melting of the mind...how much the heart yearns...and this yearning comes only when you remember His various pastimes and want to be a part of them.

 

 

It is found that even after performing rigourous sadhana bhakti,the sadhaka doesn't advance...this is because he doesn't intentionally develop this yearning...

[Narasingh]

 

so, now, diksha is to be equated with svarupa-siddhi?

wonders never cease...

 

Now, the beginning (initiation) is when svarupa-siddhi is attained?

 

That would be a whole new concept of diksha from what has traditionally been known as diksha in the Pancaratrika tradition.

I never said they were related. What I was getting at was the possibility of the coincidental occurrence of the two. Just a speculation but the fact is, Bhaktivinode Thakur prayed the way he did, and he also received initiation.

 

Now, there isn't a person here who can deny the possibility of Kamala Manjari meeting Vilasa Manjari at the same time Bhaktivinode Thakur met Bipin Bihari. There are plenty who can deny that taking diksha is tantamount to receiving one's siddha deha, and I will be among them.

 

As Prabhupada wrote, and also met with concurrence across the board...Guru is One but appears before us in a varied way.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

I never said they were related. What I was getting at was the possibility of the coincidental occurrence of the two. Just a speculation but the fact is, Bhaktivinode Thakur prayed the way he did, and he also received initiation.

 

Now, there isn't a person here who can deny the possibility of Kamala Manjari meeting Vilasa Manjari at the same time Bhaktivinode Thakur met Bipin Bihari. There are plenty who can deny that taking diksha is tantamount to receiving one's siddha deha, and I will be among them.

 

As Prabhupada wrote, and also met with concurrence across the board...Guru is One but appears before us in a varied way.

Well, they say that Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur proclaimed that Bhaktivinoda Thakur was a nitya-siddha. (as opposed to sadhana siddha), so if he was nitya-siddha, then he did not need Vipina Bihari Goswami to give him any siddha-pranali eka-dasa-bhava.

 

If he was not a nitya-siddha then we can safely assume that Kamala Manjari is an eternal parshada of Radha and Krishna whom Bhaktivinoda identified with in his bhajan-pranali.

That would correspond to Srila Rupa Goswami's stricture that the sadhaka find the parshada role model he most appreciates and then always remember that parshada and the service of that parshada.

 

I mean really, are we to think that before the sadhaka Bhaktivinoda attained siddhi that there was previously no "Kamala Manjari" in the pastimes of Radha and Krishna?

 

The same goes for the other examples and comparisons.

 

Wasn't Jiva Goswami a "Vilasa Manjari" and so is Vipina Bihari Goswami?

What is up with that?

How many Kamala Manjaris and Vilasa Manjaris are there in the unlimited realm of Vrindavan?

I would guess an innumerable number of them all co-existing simultaneously

in the spiritual, unlimited, inconceivable realm of Vrindavan.

Vrindavan is unlimited.

There are innumerable Kamala Manjaris and Vilasa Manjaris all simultaneously existing in different forms in different transcendental perceptions of the one reality.

In fact, there is a different manifestation of Vrindavan that lives in the heart of every siddha bhakta.

They are all ONE, yet different in transcendental reality.

 

Unlimited Kamala Majaris are taking part in the great unlimited lila of Krishna as simultaneously one and different forms of the Kamala Manjari tattva.

 

All these parshadas represent a specific tattva and bhava.

The soul becomes that what it emulates.

(we cannot emulate God)

In absorption in a particular parshada of Radha and Krishna, the sadhaka in effect becomes a reproduction of that prototype just like so many identical cars are all produced on the same assembly line.

 

In fact, that is what raga-bhakti is -- an assembly line of siddhas.

 

[Narasingh]

This is what I'm getting at. While Kamala Manjari exists eternally in Krsna Lila, Bhaktivinod Thakur exists eternally in Caitanya Lila. While the two are the same, they are also different.

 

So, yes, Bhaktivinod Thakur established and published his bhajans to his parshad guru, Vilasa Manjari, after his diksha initiations.

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaj details, quite nicely, the expansion of Guru Tattva in "Sri Guru and His Grace" as well as "The Search for Sri Krsna".

 

While I don't know if there are innumberable Kamala Manjaris and Vilasa Manjaris, I can concede that Kamala Manjari and Vilasa Manjari are nitya parshada and that one may meet them through agents unconceivable to others.

 

One thing I would like to suggest is that there is a very real possibility that there may be babajis who have received siddha pranali initiation who are very great souls.

[shiva]

 

No.Sri Krsna NEVER CONTROLS THE THOUGHTS.We are not rocks that He will control our thoughts/or us.If He was controlling our thoughts,He would keep our minds attached to Him and surrendered to Him,for He is causelessly merciful.

 

He certainly controls the experiences in the sense that His Svarupa sakti gradually strengthens our minds as we practice smarana or in short,according to the percentage of surrender of the mind.

 

As the mind becomes situated in sattva guna...i.e. when it becomes pure,Svarupa Sakti makes the mind spiritual and only then can the mind concieve the pastimes of Sri KRsna.He certainly has visions before this ...but now he is fit to recieve spiritual knowledge.

 

So it is very important to note the fact that WE HAVE TO ENGAGE THE MIND in smaranam of Sri Krsna,whether it is learning to be aware that He is situated as Paramatma in the heart or whether it is remembering His beautiful form and cute pastimes and literally crying out of yearning.

Sri Krsna notes this melting of the mind...how much the heart yearns...and this yearning comes only when you remember His various pastimes and want to be a part of them.

 

 

It is found that even after performing rigourous sadhana bhakti,the sadhaka doesn't advance...this is because he doesn't intentionally develop this yearning...

 

 

 

 

What are thoughts? They are a dialogue in the mind. How do you understand the dialogue? You are dependent on memory for understanding the language of your thoughts, you are dependent on knowledge to understand the concepts of your thoughts. You are dependent on Krishna for memory and knowledge:

 

Krishna says

 

 

Bhagavad-gita 15.15

 

sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto

mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca

vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo

vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham

 

I am seated in everyone’s heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedanta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.

 

The mind is not you, and the mind is not under your control. Due to conditioning people identify the mind as themselves or under their control, but Lord Kapila says:

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.26.28

 

yad vidur hy aniruddhākhyaḿ

hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram

śāradendīvara-śyāmaḿ

saḿrādhyaḿ yogibhiḥ śanaiḥ

 

The mind of the living entity is known by the name of Lord Aniruddha, the supreme ruler of the senses. He possesses a bluish-black form resembling a lotus flower growing in the autumn. He is found slowly by the yogīs.

 

Aniruddha is a Vishnu expansion of Krishna. Paramatma exists at the heart or core of the jiva, the soul of our soul, and functions as the mind. Through meditation on detachment from the mind, the mind can reveal it's true identity to the realized yogi.

 

Lord Kapila continues:

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 3.28.35

 

muktasrayam yarhi nirvisayam viraktam

nirvanam rcchati manah sahasa yatharcih

atmanam atra puruso ‘vyavadhanam ekam

anviksate pratinivrtta-guna-pravahah

 

When the mind is thus completely freed from all material contamination and detached from material objectives, it is just like the flame of a lamp. At that time the mind is actually dovetailed with that of the Supreme Lord and is experienced as one with Him because it is freed from the interactive flow of the material qualities.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 3.28.36

 

so ‘py etaya caramaya manaso nivrttya

tasmin mahimny avasitah sukha-duhkha-bahye

hetutvam apy asati kartari duhkhayor yat

svatman vidhatta upalabdha-paratma-kasthah

 

 

Thus situated in the highest transcendental stage, the mind ceases from all material reaction and becomes situated in its own glory, transcendental to all material conceptions of happiness and distress. At that time the yogi realizes the truth of his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He discovers that pleasure and pain as well as their interactions, which he attributed to his own self, are actually due to the false ego, which is a product of ignorance.

 

At the stage of bhava-bhakti the devotee has the truth of the mind and his or her relationship to Krishna revealed to them through Krishna's control over the mind -- Krishna speaks to the devotee through the mind because the devotee understands that he or she is not the controller of the mind; thereby letting Krishna speak to them in the mind. The jiva is always under control in all he says or does in all circumstances because will power only belongs to the Lord. The jiva is only sakti or controlled energy, while God is sakti and saktiman: the controller of energy. Becoming conscious of this reality is essential for entering into bhava-bhakti:

 

 

Bhagavad-gītā 3.27

 

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahańkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

 

The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.

 

The jiva is not the doer because the jiva is not in control of his thoughts which inspire the jiva to act, knowing this we can be conscious of Krishna because Paramatma is the mind and controls thought:

 

 

BG 18.57: In all activities just depend upon Me and work always under My protection. In such devotional service, be fully conscious of Me.

 

BG 18.58: If you become conscious of Me, you will pass over all the obstacles of conditioned life by My grace. If, however, you do not work in such consciousness but act through false ego, not hearing Me, you will be lost.

 

BG 18.60: Under illusion you are now declining to act according to My direction. But, compelled by the work born of your own nature, you will act all the same, O son of Kunti.

 

BG 18.61: The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.

[shiva]

 

devI kRSNa mayI proktA rAdhikA para devatA

sarva laKSmI mayI sarava kAntis saMmohinI parA

 

(Caitanya Caritamritam Adilia, ch 4, 82-99 -

taken from Brhad-GautamIya-tantra)

 

"The transcendental Goddess Radharani is

NON-DIFFERENT from Lord Sri Krishna.

She is the Origin of all Lakshmi devis,

Who derive Their beauty and powers from.

She possesses all the attractiveness to

attract the all attractive Supreme Lord.

She alone is the Primeval Divine Potency."

 

tayo rip yubhayor madhye

rAdhikA sarvadhAdhikA

mahAbhAva svarUpe yaM

guNair ati garIyasI

 

(Ujjvalanilamani - Sri Roopa goswami)

 

Among the both Divine Personalities,

Radhaji is considered always highest,

as She alone is the embodiment of

the Supreme Bliss of Mahaa Bhaava.

 

yaH kRSNAH sA 'pi rAdhA

yA rAdhA kRSN yeva saH

 

(Narada Panca Ratram)

 

Sri Radha and Krishna are of the same Essence.

The Divine form that has been manifested as Krishna,

is of Radha's and Sri Krishna Himself is the same Radha.

 

ye yaM rAdhA yas ca kRSNo rasAbdhiH

ddehazcaikaH krIdanArthaM dvidA bhUt

 

(RadhikA tapaniyopanishad)

 

The Divine couple, Radha and Krishna constitute

the unfathomable Ocean of ultimate Divine Bliss.

 

They have assumed Two Personalities only to

engage in sublime pastimes of Divine Love.

 

 

 

 

She is the Mother of Lord Mahavishnu. (Brahm Vaivarta Purana)

 

 

Radha ardhtanu hari.

Harirardhatanu radha.

 

Radharani and Sri Krsna are THE SAME.

 

ekam buddhi,eka atma.

They have the same buddhi and They are the same Personality of Godhead.

 

 

Some mahrasiks mainly side with Sri radha,and declare Her Superior,while others side with Sri KRsna and declare Him to be superior.This is done in PURE humour.

 

Even the sadhaka can make such claims humourously,"You made Svayam Bhagavan Sri krsna assume the form of a Gopi and He served Your feet,Oh Radha !"

 

"Sri Radhika is crying for You Oh Sri Krsna !"

 

but the siddhanta is Eternally the same,"Radha and Krsna are not separate at all."

 

It is your speculation that They differ in Their position and/or Person.

 

 

Exactly, that is the authentic teaching of the Gaudiya Sampradaya:

 

From the Sri Krsna-bhakti-ratna-prakasa of Srila Raghava Goswami:

 

 

Sri Radha is manifested from half of Lord Krsna's body. This is described in the following verse of Padma Purana:

 

"Sri Radha is the original potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She is beautiful, graceful, saintly and full of all transcendental qualities. She enjoys pastimes in the forest of Vrndavana. She is manifested from half of Lord Mukunda's transcendental body."

 

This is also confirmed in the Sammohana-tantra, Patala 1:

 

"His form is eternally full of bliss. It is never any other way. Radha is full of bliss. Lord Hari is full of bliss."

 

Their forms are not composed of material elements. Their forms are full of bliss. They are the single Supreme Spirit, manifested as two for the knowledge of the devotees.

 

The wise know that as a spark is one with the fire, so the potency and the master of potencies are one.

 

That Sri Radha is manifested from half of Lord Krsna's body is also described in the Govinda-Vrndavana-sastra, where Sri Krsna says to Balarama:

 

"O Balarama, please listen and I will tell You something. One day, taking My flute, My heart full of bliss and My form bending in three places, I went under a kadamba tree and, seeing My own form reflected in a splendid golden platform studded with jewels, I became enchanted. At that moment My heart became filled with the sweet happiness known as conjugal love, which charms the entire world. My heart now desires to become a woman. I yearn to enjoy Myself as a woman.

 

As the Lord thought in this way, His heart approached itself. From the sweetness of His heart came bliss and from the bliss came Himself, manifested in a second form, a female form of transcendental bliss that could experience the direct perception of Himself.

 

At that time a goddess, whose form was nectar, whose fair complexion was like a host of lightning flashes, and who was decorated with glittering ornaments, appeared from the Lord's left side. She is known as Radha, who is half of Krsna's body, and who is the mistress of all potencies."

 

(...)

 

Because Sri Sri Radha Krsna are not different and because Sri Krsna is the master of all potencies, Therefore Sri Radha is also the master and source of all potencies. He is by nature full of sweetness and bliss, free from the three modes, and eternally manifest beyond the material nature. Because Radha is not different from Him, so is She also. It is said that within the Lord are all potencies, the modes and the material nature

 

Even Durga is identical to Krishna, as told by Jiva Goswam in this commentary to Brahma Samhita:

 

 

Durga is also described in Narada-pancaratra, in the following conversation of Sruti and Vidya:

 

Durga is the supreme goddess. She is an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She is the transcendental potency of the Lord. She is manifested from the form of Lord Maha-Vishnu.

 

Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.

 

Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following statement of the Nirukti:

 

Even is one continually worships her, Durga is still difficult to understand.

 

In the Sammohana Tantra, Durga herself declares:

 

I am Durga. I possess all virtues. I am not different from Sri Radha, the eternal, supreme goddess of fortune.

 

She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.

 

Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:

 

Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death.

[Sonic Yogi]

Radha is not Krishna. Krishna is the complete whole and Radha is the energy of the complete whole.

The energy and the energetic are ONE in that the energy is never disconnected from the energetic.

So, Radha is not the energetic Krishna, she is the energy.

Radha is the energy and as such the predominated aspect of the absolute.

Krishna is the predominant not the predominated.

 

So, Radha is Krishna as being one with him as his energy.

But, the energy is not the energetic and thus the Shakti Radha is not the Shaktiman Krishna.

The Gaudiya siddhanta is acintya-bhedabheda-tattva.

That means that Radha is ONE with Krishna, yet she is also different than Krishna as being the Shakti and not the Shaktiman.

 

Radha is not Krishna in the form of a woman.

Radha is the internal energy of Krishna personified in feminine form.

 

To neglect the "abheda" or difference between Radha and Krishna then makes Radha to be Krishna in a feminine form.

Radha is not the supreme absolute whole in feminine form, she is only the energy. The energy has an energetic source and that is Krishna.

 

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.59

 

rādhikā hayena kṛṣṇera praṇaya-vikāra

svarūpa-śakti — 'hlādinī' nāma yāńhāra

 

SYNONYMS

 

rādhikā — Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī; hayena — is; kṛṣṇera — of Lord Kṛṣṇa; praṇaya-vikāra — transformation of love; svarūpa-śakti — personal energy; hlādinī — hlādinī; nāma — name; yāńhāra — whose.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Śrīmatī Rādhikā is the transformation of Kṛṣṇa's love. She is His internal energy called hlādinī.

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.60

 

hlādinī karāya kṛṣṇe ānandāsvādana

hlādinīra dvārā kare bhaktera poṣaṇa

 

SYNONYMS

 

hlādinī — the hlādinī energy; karāya — causes to do; kṛṣṇe — in Lord Kṛṣṇa; ānanda-āsvādana — the tasting of bliss; hlādinīra dvārā — by the pleasure potency; kare — does; bhaktera — of the devotee; poṣaṇa — nourishing.

 

TRANSLATION

 

That hlādinī energy gives Kṛṣṇa pleasure and nourishes His devotees.

 

PURPORT

 

Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has elaborately discussed the hlādinī potency in his Prīti-sandarbha. He says that the Vedas clearly state, "Only devotional service can lead one to the Personality of Godhead. Only devotional service can help a devotee meet the Supreme Lord face to face. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is attracted by devotional service, and as such the ultimate supremacy of Vedic knowledge rests in knowing the science of devotional service."

 

What is the particular attraction that makes the Supreme Lord enthusiastic to accept devotional service, and what is the nature of such service? The Vedic scriptures inform us that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, is self-sufficient, and that māyā, nescience, can never influence Him at all. Therefore the potency that overcomes the Supreme must be purely spiritual. Such a potency cannot be anything of the material manifestation. The bliss enjoyed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be of material composition, like the impersonalist conception of the bliss of Brahman. Devotional service is reciprocation between two, and therefore it cannot be located simply within one's self. Therefore the bliss of self-realization, brahmānanda, cannot be equated with devotional service.

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead has three kinds of internal potency, namely the hlādinī-śakti, or pleasure potency, the sandhinī-śakti, or existential potency, and the samvit-śakti, or cognitive potency. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa (1.12.69) the Lord is addressed as follows: "O Lord, You are the support of everything. The three attributes hlādinī, sandhinī and samvit exist in You as one spiritual energy. But the material modes, which cause happiness, misery and mixtures of the two, do not exist in You, for You have no material qualities."

 

Hlādinī is the personal manifestation of the blissfulness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by which He enjoys pleasure. Because the pleasure potency is perpetually present in the Supreme Lord, the theory of the impersonalist that the Lord appears in the material mode of goodness cannot be accepted. The impersonalist conclusion is against the Vedic version that the Lord possesses a transcendental pleasure potency. When the pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is exhibited by His grace in the person of a devotee, that manifestation is called love of God. "Love of God" is an epithet for the pleasure potency of the Lord. Therefore devotional service reciprocated between the Lord and His devotee is an exhibition of the transcendental pleasure potency of the Lord.

 

The potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that always enriches Him with transcendental bliss is not material, but the Śańkarites have accepted it as such because they are ignorant of the identity of the Supreme Lord and His pleasure potency. Those ignorant persons cannot understand the distinction between impersonal spiritual bliss and the variegatedness of the spiritual pleasure potency. The hlādinī potency gives the Lord all transcendental pleasure, and the Lord bestows such a potency upon His pure devotee.

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.62

 

ānandāḿśe hlādinī, sad-aḿśe sandhinī

cid-aḿśe samvit — yāre jñāna kari' māni

 

SYNONYMS

 

ānanda-aḿśe — in the bliss portion; hlādinī — the pleasure energy; sat-aḿśe — in the eternal portion; sandhinī — the existence-expanding energy; cit-aḿśe — in the cognizant portion; samvit — the full energy of knowledge; yāre — which; jñāna kari' — as knowledge; māni — I accept.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Hlādinī is His aspect of bliss; sandhinī, of eternal existence; and samvit, of cognizance, which is also accepted as knowledge.

 

PURPORT

 

In his thesis Bhagavat-sandarbha (103), Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī explains the potencies of the Lord as follows: The transcendental potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by which He maintains His existence is called sandhinī. The transcendental potency by which He knows Himself and causes others to know Him is called samvit. The transcendental potency by which He possesses transcendental bliss and causes His devotees to have bliss is called hlādinī

So Radha is only the hladini shakti of Krishna.

 

Krishna has three aspects:

1. Samvit

2. Sandhini

3. Hladini

 

So Radha is the Hladini shakti of Krishna not Krishna completely.

 

So, the notion that Radha is Krishna in a feminine form is not correct because Radha does not contain the Samvit or Sandhini aspects of Krishna.

 

Radha is one with Krishna yet she is not Krishna because she does not contain the Samvit and Sandhini aspects of Krishna.

 

So, if you take the Hladini-shakti of Krishna and seperate it from Krishna then you have Radha.

So, the Mayavada idea that Radha is just simply another form of Krishna is not correct because Radha is a distinct personality from Krishna as she is the personified aspect of Krishna's Hladini energy.

 

 

Krishna is the combination of Samvit, Sandhini and Hladini all integrated into one Supreme Entity.

 

 

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.63

 

hlādinī sandhinī samvit

tvayy ekā sarva-saḿsthitau

hlāda-tāpa-karī miśrā

tvayi no guṇa-varjite

 

SYNONYMS

 

hlādinī — pleasure potency; sandhinī — existence potency; samvit — knowledge potency; tvayi — in You; ekā — one; sarva-saḿsthitau — who are the basis of all things; hlāda — pleasure; tāpa — and misery; karī — causing; miśrā — a mixture of the two; tvayi — in You; na u — not; guṇa-varjite — who are without the three modes of material nature.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"O Lord, You are the support of everything. The three attributes hlādinī, sandhinī and samvit exist in You as one spiritual energy. But the material modes, which cause happiness, misery and mixtures of the two, do not exist in You, for You have no material qualities."

 

 

So, Radha is just the Hladini shakti, so it is erroneous to say that Radha is absolutely Krishna because she is absolutely only one aspect of Krishna as his Hladini-shakti.

[shiva]

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4

 

 

Text 56

 

rādhā-kṛṣṇa eka ātmā, dui deha dhari'

anyonye vilase rasa āsvādana kari'

 

TRANSLATION

 

Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same, but They have assumed two bodies. Thus They enjoy each other, tasting the mellows of love

 

Text 81

 

tara madhye vraie nana bhava-rasa-bhede

krsnake karaya rasadika-lilasvade

 

Among them are various groups of consorts in Vraja who have varieties of sentiments and mellows. They help Lord Krsna taste all the sweetness of the rasa dance and other pastimes.

 

PURPORT

 

As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary (completely identical) portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The females reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself.

 

The plenary expansions of Krsna's personality are called vaibhava-vilasa and vaibhava-prakasa, and Radha's expansions are similarly described. The goddesses of fortune are vaibhava-vilasa, and the queens are vaibhava-prakasa of Radharani. The personal associates of Radharani, the damsels of Vraja, are direct expansions of Her body. As expansions of Her personai form and transcendental disposition, they are agents of different reciprocations of love in the pastimes of Lord Krsna, under the supreme direction of Srimati Radharani.

 

Text 97

 

mṛgamada, tāra gandha — yaiche aviccheda

agni, jvālāte — yaiche kabhu nāhi bheda

 

They are indeed the same, just as musk and its scent are inseparable, or as fire and its heat are nondifferent.

 

Text 98

 

rādhā-kṛṣṇa aiche sadā eka-i svarūpa

līlā-rasa āsvādite dhare dui-rūpa

 

Thus Rādhā and Lord Kṛṣṇa are one, yet They have taken two forms to enjoy the mellows of pastimes.

 

 

[Sonic Yogi]

Radha is the hladini-shakti of Krishna.

Not Krishna complete as samvit, sandhini and hladini.

 

Radha is Krishna only by being his Hladini-shakti.

When Samvit, Sandhini and Hladini shaktis are all combined in one form that is Krishna.

Hladini-shakti alone is Radha.

 

Radha cannot be Krishna because Krishna is Samvit, Sandhini and Hladini.

 

The oneness of Radha and Krishna is not Advaitic oneness but it is inconceivably a oneness in difference.

That is the difference between Advaita Mayavada and Vaishnavism.

 

If we remove the "difference" between Radha and Krishna then we have Mayavada.

[ranjeetmore]

sonic yogi...your nonsense speculations are only leading to nama apradha.

 

 

The Hladini Sakti is the controlling energy of all the Other energies.Prema Bhakti,which stays in Bhagavan's pocket,is the saar bhoot tattva of Hladini Sakti.

 

This Prema Bhakti Herself Subdues Sri Krsna and thus Sri Krsna is always under the control of Radharani(a way of seeing it.)

 

 

When you say that Radha is just energy ...What energy ?? She's formless awat ???

 

Nonsense...

 

She is a form of God..the only Form of God,Who Experiences the highest form of bliss of Maadan bhava.

 

you should stop this nonsense...your causing others' falldown too by this ..

[ranjeetmore]

 

 

 

 

Even Durga is identical to Krishna, as told by Jiva Goswam in this commentary to Brahma Samhita:

 

Durga is also described in Narada-pancaratra, in the following conversation of Sruti and Vidya:

 

Durga is the supreme goddess. She is an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She is the transcendental potency of the Lord. She is manifested from the form of Lord Maha-Vishnu.

 

Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.

 

Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following statement of the Nirukti:

 

Even is one continually worships her, Durga is still difficult to understand.

 

In the Sammohana Tantra, Durga herself declares:

 

I am Durga. I possess all virtues. I am not different from Sri Radha, the eternal, supreme goddess of fortune.

 

She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.

 

Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:

 

Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death.

 

 

Alas !!! ALas !!!

I love you !!

 

 

I have found the right views on Durga tattva.

 

demigoddess..this that...Iskconites have made me do more apradha than sukriti....

 

 

THANK YOU PRABHUJI !!!!

 

seriously...

 

Now I can freely bow before Durgadevi...

[sant]

 

In the Sammohana Tantra, Durga herself declares:

 

I am Durga. I possess all virtues. I am not different from Sri Radha, the eternal, supreme goddess of fortune.

 

She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.

 

Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:

 

Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death.

The spiritual durga is diferent from material durga.

WHy are you quoting from tantra no point because it has been proved false.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

sonic yogi...your nonsense speculations are only leading to nama apradha.

 

 

The Hladini Sakti is the controlling energy of all the Other energies.Prema Bhakti,which stays in Bhagavan's pocket,is the saar bhoot tattva of Hladini Sakti.

 

This Prema Bhakti Herself Subdues Sri Krsna and thus Sri Krsna is always under the control of Radharani(a way of seeing it.)

 

 

When you say that Radha is just energy ...What energy ?? She's formless awat ???

 

Nonsense...

 

She is a form of God..the only Form of God,Who Experiences the highest form of bliss of Maadan bhava.

 

you should stop this nonsense...your causing others' falldown too by this ..

 

Ranjeet, now you are talking like nonsense shakta.

You say now that shakti controls shakti:

 

The Hladini Sakti is the controlling energy of all the Other energies.

 

That is nonsense.

Shakti does not control shakti.

Shaktiman controls shakti.

 

Your asinine theory that somehow that Radha is some Isvara controlling Samvit and Sandhini Shakti is a concoction.

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.6.32

 

sṛjāmi tan-niyukto 'haḿ

haro harati tad-vaśaḥ

viśvaḿ puruṣa-rūpeṇa

paripāti tri-śakti-dhṛk

 

SYNONYMS

 

sṛjāmi — do create; tat — by His; niyuktaḥ — appointment; aham — I; haraḥ — Lord Śiva; harati — destroys; tat-vaśaḥ — under His subordination; viśvam — the whole universe; puruṣa — the Personality of Godhead; rūpeṇa — by His eternal form; paripāti — maintains; tri-śakti-dhṛk — the controller of three energies.

 

TRANSLATION

 

By His will, I create, Lord Śiva destroys, and He Himself, in His eternal form as the Personality of Godhead, maintains everything. He is the powerful controller of these three energies.

 

Ranjeet, it sounds like you are trying to advocate the Shakta theory under the guise of being Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

Shakti doesn't do any controlling.

Shakti is always controlled by Shaktiman Isvara Krishna.

[sant]

 

Ranjeet, it sounds like you are trying to advocate the Shakta theory under the guise of being Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

Shakti doesn't do any controlling.

Shakti is always controlled by Shaktiman Isvara Krishna.

 

 

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yes please dont go by these tantras and shaktas remember my situation.

These texts are mayavi just like maya and are deluding.

Thats my opinion.

[chandu_69]

 

yes please dont go by these tantras and shaktas remember my situation.

These texts are mayavi just like maya and are deluding.

 

Tantra is a grey area.Anything goes in the name of Tantra.

[Narasingh]

Sonic Yogi, perhaps you should be a little easier on "shaktas" and not call them "nonsense". After all, when the gopis are desirous they approach Katyayani Devi. We all know this. Are they nonsense for doing so, or is it something we can learn from???